Going in Limp home mode home but no apparent codes related to it...

It all depends on what "a lot" works out to be.
A torque wrench would be a worthwhile investment. I don't think there's much point to removing them and re-tightening them if you still don't know how tight.
 
Just took the bolt out and I snapped it... A part of the bolt have stayed in the hole tho (the lower part). What are my options?
 
Just took the bolt out and I snapped it... A part of the bolt have stayed in the hole tho (the lower part). What are my options?

what to do should be very simple...

your options are to remove what ever parts have a broken half a bolt, then you are going to have to get that remaining part of the bolt out...

after that is done, you will need a new bolt and for the love of god get a torque wrench (or at least find a friend to borrow one from...)
 
...What are my options?

Disassemble and use a "bolt-out" if needed to get the rest of the bolt out. Pray that the threads aren't damaged. It's okay to tighten some things by feel, if you have the feel for it. However, many things really should be done using a torque wrench. I think that I have a pretty good feel for it, but I always use a torque wrench when working on aluminum parts.
 
Started my car yesterday... Everything is fine! My check engine is gone and the car seemed to have gained some power therefore there is no apparent vaccum leak/lost of power caused by the snapled IM bolt. Never did a mechanical job on a car before and I didnt have no problem taking off the intake manifold. So if you have to change your coils/plugs or have some work to do underneath the intake manifold, strongly reconsider bringing it the dealer/garage to get it done ( its way easier that it may seems like).
 
If you're not confident doing basic maintenance or pretty good mechanically I would not attempt this yourself. I'm pretty good turning wrenches and my best time is 3 hours; that's after 3 coil/plug changes.

Wait, what? Is it common to have to do this more than once? I put in premium coils and plugs, but that was a couple of years ago. Now I'm getting limp mode, even after fixing my stereo issues, which I thought were the cause of it. And they were, but now I know it must be something else in addition to that. I get no codes. Just limp mode, often soon after taking off, especially in this recent cold weather in Atlanta, 36 degrees.

I thought people only redid the coils if the parts were bad at install. Maybe I need to r/r mine.
 
Wait, what? Is it common to have to do this more than once? I put in premium coils and plugs, but that was a couple of years ago. Now I'm getting limp mode, even after fixing my stereo issues, which I thought were the cause of it. And they were, but now I know it must be something else in addition to that. I get no codes. Just limp mode, often soon after taking off, especially in this recent cold weather in Atlanta, 36 degrees.

I thought people only redid the coils if the parts were bad at install. Maybe I need to r/r mine.

What do you mean by "premium?" Does this mean aftermarket? If so, then you probably will have to replace them sooner or later.
To begin with, there was an issue with the epoxy in the coils. It took Ford a while to realize this and correct it. The first few/several versions of the coils would last from 40K to 100K miles. The last few versions seem to last at least over 100K miles in both of my LSes, so far.
 
What do you mean by "premium?" Does this mean aftermarket? If so, then you probably will have to replace them sooner or later.
To begin with, there was an issue with the epoxy in the coils. It took Ford a while to realize this and correct it. The first few/several versions of the coils would last from 40K to 100K miles. The last few versions seem to last at least over 100K miles in both of my LSes, so far.

Yes, they were aftermarket, I forget the brand. I'll have my mechanic use OEM this time, as I no longer work for Genuine Parts where I would get big parts discounts. I never noticed a bit of difference in the more expensive ones I got anyway. I will have him check the valve cover gasket as well, since that could be the leak my tire shop spotted. Thanks, Joe!
 
My mechanic called back to say the coils tested fine, he can find nothing wrong. Said there was a mid-oil pan leak? No idea what that is. He also said timing cover leak and I should take it to the dealer for that work.

This particular guy that works the front counter is adept at turning away business. I doubt he really tested my coils, because he starts off with "it wasn't in limp mode when you brought it in...". And I can't imagine a timing cover too difficult for a good shop to handle. I've already had a bad experience with a local dealer. I could try another one, but I guess I'm going to have to do some research before I hand it off. Frustrated with my mechanic now.
 
How did he test them? A resistance check won't catch the normal way that these coils fail. To do the correct stress test to find bad coils requires expensive equipment and a fair amount of labor. If he didn't charge you a few hundred for this testing, then he didn't do it.

This is the correct test: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwix4ab_vPjZAhUIMd8KHZ6eDFUQFgg5MAI&url=https://latemodel.cachefly.net/downloads/tsb05-14/tsb05-22-08.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3txEPhq02h9jieBSYi36Yt


This TSB addresses misfire diagnosis with Ford COP (coil-over-plug) ignition systems. This applies to Ford 1996-1999 Taurus SHO, 1998-2005 Crown Victoria and Mustang, 2000 Taurus, 2002-2005 Thunderbird, 2003-2005 Focus, 2004-2005 Taurus, 1997-2005 E-Series, Expedition and F-150, 1999-2005 F-Super Duty, 2000-2005 Excursion and F-53, 2001-2005 Escape, 2002-2005 Explorer; Lincoln 1997-1998 Mark VIII, 1998-2002 Continental, 1998-2005 Town Car, 2000-2005 LS, 1998-2005 Navigator, 2002-2003 Blackwood and 2003-2005 Aviator; Mercury 1998-2005 Grand Marquis, 2000 Sable, 2004-2005 Sable, and 2002-2005 Mountaineer.

According to Ford, approximately 50% of COP coils returned for warranty do not have a problem. The misfiring cylinder must be identified through self-test misfire codes or through WDS power balance. Rule out base engine problems, rule out fuel problems, and then look at ignition problems (be sure to rule out coil primary circuit issues). Once these concerns have been eliminated, the oscilloscope procedure outlined in this TSB can isolate the difference between a coil or a spark plug problem.

The optional WDS COP kit available through Rotunda will provide more accurate diagnosis and help reduce replacement of non-defective parts. The kit, P/N 418-FS528, can be purchased by calling 800-ROTUNDA.

The following procedure is for cylinder-specific misfires, and not random misfires. Misfire is defined as a misfiring cylinder that is lacking power relative to the other cylinders. The causes for a cylinder-specific misfire could include fuel, spark or mechanical problems.



Figure 1: Make sure that the coil being tested cannot spark to another surface
M-COIL01-2.jpg

Perform a visual inspection. If no visible concerns are found, use the following WDS tools for misfire diagnosis:

Self test (check for codes first)

Power balance (identify the cylinder of concern)

Relative compression (rule out a possible mechanical issue)

Fuel (make sure that fuel injectors are not restricted)

Ignition (make sure that spark plugs and coils are working properly)

Oscilloscope (detailed signal analysis)

Note: Use the encyclopedia button in the lower left corner of the screen for detailed information on the WDS tool being displayed).

If there is a self-test code identifying a particular cylinder, you need to determine if it is a fuel, ignition or a mechanical problem. Proceed to Step 2 after running Relative Compression to rule out any mechanical problems. If there is no self-test codes, and the customer concern is a miss, proceed to Step 1.

STEP 1: Select the Toolbox icon, then Powertrain, then Power Balance.



Figure 2: Here, cylinder 2 has dropped.
M-COIL02-1.jpg

The cylinder specific misfire must be identified as shown in Figure 2 in order to proceed with the remaining steps. If the miss does not occur at idle, try to brake-torque the engine. This extra loading should reproduce the miss in the bay. If the miss cannot be reproduced during brake torque, select Relative Compression under Powertrain on WDS before going on a road test to rule out mechanical problems. If Relative Compression shows a problem, the base engine issue must be resolved. If Relative Compression results are good, road test under as many different driving conditions as possible until the miss occurs on Power Balance. Some misses may be very intermittent, so be patient and concentrate on steady load conditions. Once a cylinder dropout is identified, proceed to Step 2.

STEP 2: (Select Toolbox icon, then Powertrain, the Fuel System Test)

Run the Fuel System Test on WDS to determine if there may be a fuel problem. After completing the fuel Pressure/Leakdown test, select Injector Flow to isolate a restricted injector (Figure 4). If all injectors are within specification, proceed to Step 3.



Figure 4: This example shows a restricted No. 2 injector.
M-COIL04-1.jpg

STEP 3: (Select Toolbox icon, then powertrain, then Ignition System Test)

Run the Ignition System Test on WDS to determine if there is an ignition problem. Look at both duration (DUR) and kilovolts (KV) and look for values that stand out from the rest.

Note: Live display must average ignition values because there is too much data to display. Make a capture to view each engine event without averaging. This can be helpful when the problem is intermittent and does not show up in ignition. Proceed to Step 4 (if either spark duration or peak KV on the Red probe (Suspect Cylinder) are offset from the values displayed on the Black probe (Known Good Cylinder), then the problem is in the ignition system. Rule out coil primary circuit issues before proceeding to coil secondary issues such as the spark plug, coil boot, or possibly the coil. Use the WDS Oscilloscope with the COP kit to determine if the issue is the coil or the spark plug.

STEP 4: (Select Toolbox, then Oscilloscope)

Warning: Secondary ignition voltages are very high. Keep hands and tools away from the end of the coil that supplies the spark.

Set-up: With the engine off, pull the suspect coil from the cylinder well and turn it upside-down so that the coil cannot spark to any other surface, as shown in Figure 1. Wrap a clean shop cloth around the hard shell of the coil to help keep the coil propped up and stable. Caution: The coil boot can be damaged if the coil sparks to another surface.

Keep the coil connected to the harness and leave the WDS COP clip attached to the coil. Route the coil clip wire and cable away from the coil being tested, as well as other coils, to avoid noise interference. Disconnect the injector of the cylinder being tested to prevent raw fuel from washing the cylinder. This is a stress test for the coil. The type of waveform displayed on the oscilloscope will show whether a coil or spark plug is the problem, if all previous steps have been followed.



Figure 7: Example of a good waveform.
M-COIL07-1.jpg

COP Stress Test Procedure: Go to the Oscilloscope Tool and select Channel 3, then select Auto, then select COP_STRESS_TEST_RED. This pre-configured setting will zoom-in on the peak firing of the coil being tested. Start the engine and be sure that the coil is not sparking to any surface. If the coil does spark to other surfaces, immediately turn the engine off and re-adjust the coil. Restart the engine and touch the Red Man icon to start the oscilloscope. All settings are pre-configured and no adjustments are necessary. Compare the waveform you see with the examples provided in Figures 7, 8 and 9. Figure 7 shows a good waveform. If your waveform is similar to Figure 7, the coil is working correctly. Suspect the spark plug.



Figure 8: Example of a problem coil.
M-COIL08-1.jpg

Figures 8 and 9 are examples of problem coils. Replace the coil if your waveform is similar to Figure 8 or 9.



Figure 9: This example shows a more dramatic fault in the peak failure.
M-COIL09-1.jpg
 
I see, very involved. Second mechanic called back yesterday to say it's a bad relay and that's fixed. He said he found a code in the history that pointed him in that direction. I'll pick it up and see how it does. He said he also cannot work on a timing cover, because his specialist left. I think that happened to the guys down the street as well, the good mechanics left. Second mechanic says there is a shortage of skilled techs right now.

At any rate, if this relay fixes things then I'll have to take this timing cover leak to the dealership.
 
Update:

2nd mechanic said he found these codes:
U1027 - Engine RPM - Parking Brake
U1262 - BUS - PCM Relay

Says coils look pristine and he's confident they aren't the issue. He swapped the horn relay that is rarely used with the PCM relay, which is constantly used. No limp so far. Horn still works.

He said the oil leak is from the timing cover, but it's not the cover itself, it's a bad seal on a sensor in the top of the cover. It's the speed sensor for the timing chain.

He said leave it alone, it's no threat and not worth fixing right now. He said not until I see oil puddles and I never see much of anything. So, for now, no trip to the dreaded dealership required.
 
Update:

2nd mechanic said he found these codes:
U1027 - Engine RPM - Parking Brake
U1262 - BUS - PCM Relay

Says coils look pristine and he's confident they aren't the issue. He swapped the horn relay that is rarely used with the PCM relay, which is constantly used. No limp so far. Horn still works.

He said the oil leak is from the timing cover, but it's not the cover itself, it's a bad seal on a sensor in the top of the cover. It's the speed sensor for the timing chain.

He said leave it alone, it's no threat and not worth fixing right now. He said not until I see oil puddles and I never see much of anything. So, for now, no trip to the dreaded dealership required.
Sounds like this 2nd Mechanic has a little more common sense
 
Update:

2nd mechanic said he found these codes:
U1027 - Engine RPM - Parking Brake
U1262 - BUS - PCM Relay

Says coils look pristine and he's confident they aren't the issue. He swapped the horn relay that is rarely used with the PCM relay, which is constantly used. No limp so far. Horn still works.

He said the oil leak is from the timing cover, but it's not the cover itself, it's a bad seal on a sensor in the top of the cover. It's the speed sensor for the timing chain.

He said leave it alone, it's no threat and not worth fixing right now. He said not until I see oil puddles and I never see much of anything. So, for now, no trip to the dreaded dealership required.

Okay, so wrong stuff here:

There is no "speed sensor" for the timing chain!
There are two VCT control solenoids at the front top of each valve cover (not the timing cover). They are not sensors, but actually hydraulic valves that control oil pressure to an advance mechanism for each intake cam. The seals for these do shrink and start seeping oil over time. They are $10 each, and are very easy to change. All you do is pull the old one out and push the new one in. There is nothing to disassemble. You just have to disconnect and reconnect the electrical cable to each. However, you'll find this is not your leak. They seep, but not so much that oil will drip from the engine. Note that there are two cam sensors, but they are at the back of the engine, not the front.
BTW, the only opening in the timing cover is the where the crankshaft goes through to the damper. The only places the timing cover can leak are the front shaft seal and the perimeter, unless it is cracked. Lately, for both of mine I am betting on it being the shaft seal.

U1262 - Data Circuit Message: PCM Received Signal for Fault on Bus Circuit. This is pretty common and you'll find it on many LSes if you scan them. It's usually not a real problem. It's not impossible that it's related to your problem, but unlikely.

U1027 - Invalid or Missing Data for Engine (RPM) from the (PCM) This is possibly a consequence of the data circuit fault noted above. There is specific testing to do to determine if these are real problems or not. I'm going to assume that he didn't do them.

I think you still need to find a mechanic that has a clue. The comment about "it's a bad seal on a sensor in the top of the cover. It's the speed sensor for the timing chain" would have me running away from him.
 
Last edited:
My wife's treadmill has a speed sensor. Pretty sure it's been injecting oil into her fat ass when she's not on it enough. :) ... last I grabbed a hold of both her horn relays they still seemed firm and fully functional.



EDIT: she not really fat in the ass. probably just false ETC code stored.
.
 
My wife's treadmill has a speed sensor. Pretty sure it's been injecting oil into her fat ass when she's not on it enough. :) ... last I grabbed a hold of both her horn relays they still seemed firm and fully functional.



EDIT: she not really fat in the ass. probably just false ETC code stored.
.
Rotlmao!!!!! My wife and I was on the floor laughing our asses off !!! Good stuff! Nothing like a little comic relief once and awhile
 
BTW, the only opening in the timing cover is the where the crankshaft goes through to the damper. The only places the timing cover can leak are the front shaft seal and the perimeter, unless it is cracked. Lately, for both of mine I am betting on it being the shaft seal.

U1262 - Data Circuit Message: PCM Received Signal for Fault on Bus Circuit. This is pretty common and you'll find it on many LSes if you scan them. It's usually not a real problem. It's not impossible that it's related to your problem, but unlikely.

U1027 - Invalid or Missing Data for Engine (RPM) from the (PCM) This is possibly a consequence of the data circuit fault noted above. There is specific testing to do to determine if these are real problems or not. I'm going to assume that he didn't do them.

I think you still need to find a mechanic that has a clue. The comment about "it's a bad seal on a sensor in the top of the cover. It's the speed sensor for the timing chain" would have me running away from him.

As always, Joe, your knowledge is much appreciated! No, he didn't do any further testing and didn't seem to be aware of any. He just said let's clear the codes and see what comes back next. He did hook up to the online database and get a printout that probably said all that, I'll have to go back and read it. He said his chief mechanic left for college and that there is a shortage of skilled mechanics right now.

I think my old guys may no longer be at the old location. Owner's office has been empty, she was always there, the guys I knew would always come out to greet me. I will call and ask them if they were sold recently and hopefully they will tell me where the two good guys that used to work there went to. Ahhh, I know, I'll have to ask one of my old GPC buddies. They are all big car guys, they'll know someone good.
 
Ugh, got the Parking Brake Sensor/ETC Failsafe Mode warning again while on the interstate. Had headlights, fogs, stereo, subwoofer amp, head unit, air conditioning all going at once. The pre-conditions are at least becoming predictable. Restart car and it goes away.

It's time to find a mechanic.
 
It's time to find a mechanic.

I found out my favorite mechanic is still there, spoke to him this morning. I guess they keep him in the shop working versus counter work. At any rate, I sent him that TSB you posted, Joe. Will see if he thinks he can do the test.

His opinion is that a coil can test good and then fail under load, but of course that is what the test is, a stress test, not just continuity. He suggested having the alternator/battery/charging system checked at an auto parts store, turn on everything, stereo, lights, a/c, and see if the system can still charge. I said I would do that, just out of curiosity, but I don't think a weak alternator is the problem. I think that when I do that test, it will probably still charge, but will cause that ETC failsafe message.
 
Don't discount the possibility that a marginal failing alternator might be at least part of your problems.
 
20180422_203755.jpg
20180422_203924.jpg


Today's stress test results at Advance Auto. The guy wouldn't let me turn on the stereo with the other accessories because the machine didn't tell him to tell me that. : )
 
Hey 2005 LS V8
(2nd mechanic said he found these codes:
U1027 - Engine RPM - Parking Brake
U1262 - BUS - PCM Relay

Says coils look pristine and he's confident they aren't the issue. He swapped the horn relay that is rarely used with the PCM relay, which is constantly used. No limp so far. Horn still works.)

Did swapping the relays resolve the U1262 code?
 

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