2003 LS Transmission Failure

[Justin71]

Ok here goes. Inherited this car in 2013. From day one it had a random transmission buck like being rear ended between gears. This would happen between 25-30 miles an hour. The gear would simply slip and I would have to rev the car to 5k rpm or let the car coast down until it found 2nd gear. One fine day w the wife n kiddo it finaly decided not to work at all in G5 or reverse. Took it to a tranny shop they gouged me for a $200 test and said the following. Yes your transmission has a problem but we need to take it apart for a minimum of $1200 to fimd out? Seriously assholes can I get my $200 applied to the bill I already knew it was f$&$d. This is my first official post but I have been reading this forum since 2013 great forum! So the other day I decided to just try and manualy shift the car and guess what it works! I can start in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear, shift into G4 at 45mph then G5 at 55mpg. Car does not shudder or kick when slowing down from a stop. I love this car it has only 80k miles, zero rust and barely a scratch on the body. I want to get it fixed but I do not want to get ripped off by a shop! What should I start with? Fluid replacement? The shop said they did find metal bits in the pan when they pulled it. What do I need to be telling the transmission shop so I don't get f$&@d? What w be my max cost on this problem? I just do not wanna dole out 2k to have it also be a PCM issue. At that point I have paid as much as the car is worth. Thanks for the help in advance I wanna hold on to this car!

 

[joegr]

By "shop", it sounds like you mean AAMCO (All Automatics Must Come Out) or similar. Those chain shops always find for all complaints that the transmission must be rebuilt (even when the problem isn't transmission related). Even at that, you are lucky if they actually rebuild it, instead of just swapping one in one a junkyard.

Anyway, you need to find a good, local, independent to look at it. You probably won't find one with much LS experience, but look for one with Mustang/Ranger/Explorer experience and you should be good.

 

[grizzlyls]

What joe said. $200 dollars is what is needed to drop the pan and find the issue. They did nothing it is obvious. Get you money back if by credit card, and if by cash file every grievance on that shop your state/city allows.

You can look through my old threads, its is extremely likely you have the same issues as the many of us on these old low mile LS. Deteriorated parts in the control system. That said, it will cost you around 1000 if so from a respectable shop. 'Worth' of a car is not dictated by blue book. Book value usually accounts that cars this old will need work to get to standard. Think of it in terms of how unlikely it is you will find another car for 1000 that needs no work, but you may get lucky at 5000, and definitely should find one for 10000.

If you like the car, expect to put a little money into the transmission, the cooling, and the timing chains (gen 1).

 

[grizzlyls]

Oh, and if it is needed to be rebuilt that would be near 3000.

 

[xford]

A rebuilt trans is about $1400 after core return from Rock Auto (use 5% discount). Thats the route I went vs trying to locate a fix. Plus you get all the latest shift kit updates. Then you just need to shop around on labor plus auto trans fluid.

 

[Firebrian]

While a long shot, I'd ensure you have a least 1 fresh pan of the right fluid in the transmission....probably Mercon V (3-5 qts). Did they do that...or just pour the old stuff back in? I'd also take 12 oz or so out (can possibly pump out with a cheap bulb pump from Harbor Freight ($6) ) and put in 12 oz of Lubegard Red. You'd be surprised what things Lubegard can do by restoring proper frictional properties of the fluid (slip, shudder, hard shifts, etc). I've picked that up over at the Bitog site. Check the Lubegard site to ensure that's the spec you need. There's literally no downside. The trans shop will always say they "found metal." You trans magnet picks up fine metal shavings all the time that look like sand.

You've had the car for 4 yrs. What is the mileage of fluid and filter? You could do a trans pan drop again yourself and replace filter ($40-$60) if you don't know how old they are. The only time I had a trans that banged into gear...it had about 25K miles left on it before it failed. The easiest thing you could do is to pump 3-6 qts of fluid out of the trans dip stick (if a tube can fit..and there are no drain plugs) and replace with fresh fluid ($5/qt) and Lubegard.

 

[joegr]

While a long shot, I'd ensure you have a least 1 fresh pan of the right fluid in the transmission....probably Mercon V (3-5 qts). Did they do that...or just pour the old stuff back in? I'd also take 12 oz or so out (can possibly pump out with a cheap bulb pump from Harbor Freight ($6) ) and put in 12 oz of Lubegard Red. You'd be surprised what things Lubegard can do by restoring proper frictional properties of the fluid (slip, shudder, hard shifts, etc). I've picked that up over at the Bitog site. Check the Lubegard site to ensure that's the spec you need. There's literally no downside. The trans shop will always say they "found metal." You trans magnet picks up fine metal shavings all the time that look like sand.

You've had the car for 4 yrs. What is the mileage of fluid and filter? You could do a trans pan drop again yourself and replace filter ($40-$60) if you don't know how old they are. The only time I had a trans that banged into gear...it had about 25K miles left on it before it failed. The easiest thing you could do is to pump 3-6 qts of fluid out of the trans dip stick (if a tube can fit..and there are no drain plugs) and replace with fresh fluid ($5/qt) and Lubegard.

Clearly, you know little to nothing about this car or its transmission. Maybe you should avoid commenting about it...

There is no dip-stick.
Putting that additive in is a bad idea, and would be difficult.
This is a control problem, not a friction problem.

Main, known, issues with the 5r55s - sticking solenoid valves, broken valve body springs, failed valve body gaskets, worn servo bores, broken servos, and marginal/bad FETs in the PCM.

 

[Firebrian]

It's a transmission. Last I knew, the vast majority of them use fluids for lubrication, heat removal, anti-corrosion, anti-wear, anti-foaming, etc. So what if there's no dipstick? My comments still apply. Drop the pan again, add some fresh fluid, including the Lubegard. Do another inspection while it's off. Interesting how you jump on the "broken" trans and don't even care about what fluid is being used, how much, and its age. Did the shop add plain old Mercon or the right fluid?

Apparently, you know little about tribology. Just because a particular trans might frequently fail by specific components doesn't mean that's the only possibility with the OP's trans. Those sticking solenoid valves likely caused by gummed up old fluid and varnish? That can be helped by Lubegard and other trans additives which will reduce varnish over time. A complete fluid exchange might help too...if that's not "too hard" on the 5r55. The most common cause of failures with the vast majority of automatic transmissions? Not changing the fluid often enough...or using the wrong type of fluid. Worn out and oxidized hydraulic fluid can cause control problems as it is the motive force for much of that control. That's why I brought it up. Your known 5r55 "failure" items could apply to most automatic transmissions out there.

If you don't know the particulars about Lubegard, maybe you shouldn't comment on it. It's one of the very few trans fluid additives that has a consistent following by a very critical group of people (ie Bitog) who generally insist on years of proven results before recommending anything. Do some technical and anecdotal reading on Lubegard, then come back here and tell us it just can't help. I don't work for Lubegard but recognize a product that could possibly help. If the OP wants to jump right into a major trans repair/removal/rebuild, that's their choice. My Lincoln Continental has known failure items too and doesn't have a great reputation for a long/trouble free life. Still, none of those parts have ever failed on my Lincolns....on my 2nd one now at 310,000 miles total over 16 yrs.

 

[joegr]

It's a transmission. Last I knew, they all use fluids for lubrication, heat removal, anti-corrosion, anti-wear, anti-foaming, etc. So what if there's no dipstick? My comments still apply. Drop the pan again, add some fresh fluid, including the Lubegard. Do another inspection while it's off. Interesting how you jump on the "broken" trans and don't even care about what fluid is being used, how much, and its age.

Apparently, you know little about tribology. Just because a particular trans might frequently fail by specific components doesn't mean that's the only possibility with the OP's trans. Those sticking solenoid valves likely caused by gummed up old fluid and varnish? That can be helped by Lubegard and other trans additives which will reduce varnish over time. The most common cause of failures with the vast majority of automatic transmissions? Not changing the fluid often enough...or using the wrong type of fluid. If you don't know the particulars about Lubegard, don't comment on it. It's one of the very few trans fluid additives that has a consistent following by a very critical group of people (ie Bitog) who insist on years of proven results before recommending anything. Do some technical and in-situ reading on Lubegard, then come back here and tell us it just doesn't work.

Okay, OP feel free to waste your time on this...
After all, what do I know?

 

[Firebrian]

What we don't know yet is anything about the fluid in this LS or any of the transmission fluid change intervals. That's a piece of the picture any decent shop should want to know. If the goal is to maximize transmission (and drive train) life on our potentially problematic "older" Lincolns, it behooves us to know the fluid particulars inside and out.

 

[joegr]

Seriously. Fluid just hasn't come up as a problem with those symptoms on the LS. This is possibly because the factory service interval for the fluid is 15 years / 150K miles. There was an issue with some bad fluid from the factory in 04, but the symptoms were different and certainly any cars with it had it replaced long ago. If this was somehow caused by a fluid issue, changing it isn't going to fix the transmission now. It has mechanical problems. (You change fluid to prevent problems, not to solve them, with rare exceptions.) I hope you are not going to be like the guy who kept insisting that mechanical problems could be fixed by disconnecting/reconnecting the battery and driving a particular drive cycle.

 

[xford]

Joe - you have forgotten more about the LS than "Fire Brain" could ever hope to know/learn...

 

[Joshawa]

Trust me, When it comes to the Lses, you want to listen to Joe. He knows (3 LSes, was it Joe?). The trans is basically guaranteed to fail (that and the damn plastic cooling parts). My solenoid died 1,000 miles before i got it, and the prev owner's family owned a ford dealership so they coughed up the $1k to get it fixed at Ford (with all the paperwork, only reason i really bought that LS, because I can't afford a catastrophic trans failure). FORScan will also tell you if there's failures in the solenoids.

 

[LS-jsf]

Joe I thought it was the 03 that had the bad tranny fluid? When we went through this a year ago with our 03 transmission issue, I thought that is what was said. It may have carried over into the 04 as well? I'm not saying it has anything to do with this other person's problem, not going there at all, just curious what year(s) had the bad factory fluid. I just thought that had to be the main reason our transmission had such a complete failure as I doubt the car was abused by the elderly couple who owned it previously, well other than the fluid was probably never changed because of the lower miles. If it was only the 04, then I'm back to wondering what could have caused our issue. Thanks Joe.

Seriously. Fluid just hasn't come up as a problem with those symptoms on the LS. This is possibly because the factory service interval for the fluid is 15 years / 150K miles. There was an issue with some bad fluid from the factory in 04, but the symptoms were different and certainly any cars with it had it replaced long ago. If this was somehow caused by a fluid issue, changing it isn't going to fix the transmission now. It has mechanical problems. (You change fluid to prevent problems, not to solve them, with rare exceptions.) I hope you are not going to be like the guy who kept insisting that mechanical problems could be fixed by disconnecting/reconnecting the battery and driving a particular drive cycle.

 

[joegr]

Joe I thought it was the 03 that had the bad tranny fluid? When we went through this a year ago with our 03 transmission issue, I thought that is what was said. It may have carried over into the 04 as well? ...

It could have applied to late build 03s as well. We had the issue with our 04. It was pretty clear about a year and 15K miles out. At that time, the factory additive in the TSB was added at no cost by the dealer. It did make things better, but not perfect. A year or two after that, it got pretty bad again. The solenoid assembly was changed out then (and fluid replaced). Since then the transmission has been fine. I think it's at close to 200K miles now.

 

[LS-jsf]

Ours seems to be working well now of course after putting in a remanufactured one. They said they fixed all the 'bugs' in them and it's better than new, sure hope so. It has a 3 year unlimited mileage full warranty so I guess one can't ask for more than that. Cost was about $2850 installed. They have them warehoused all around the country. Here's a link for anyone interested. ETE Reman | Remanufactured, Rebuilt & Used Auto Transmissions & Repair

It could have applied to late build 03s as well. We had the issue with our 04. It was pretty clear about a year and 15K miles out. At that time, the factory additive in the TSB was added at no cost by the dealer. It did make things better, but not perfect. A year or two after that, it got pretty bad again. The solenoid assembly was changed out then (and fluid replaced). Since then the transmission has been fine. I think it's at close to 200K miles now.

 

[baire702]

Ok here goes. Inherited this car in 2013. From day one it had a random transmission buck like being rear ended between gears. This would happen between 25-30 miles an hour. The gear would simply slip and I would have to rev the car to 5k rpm or let the car coast down until it found 2nd gear. One fine day w the wife n kiddo it finaly decided not to work at all in G5 or reverse. Took it to a tranny shop they gouged me for a $200 test and said the following. Yes your transmission has a problem but we need to take it apart for a minimum of $1200 to fimd out? Seriously assholes can I get my $200 applied to the bill I already knew it was f$&$d. This is my first official post but I have been reading this forum since 2013 great forum! So the other day I decided to just try and manualy shift the car and guess what it works! I can start in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear, shift into G4 at 45mph then G5 at 55mpg. Car does not shudder or kick when slowing down from a stop. I love this car it has only 80k miles, zero rust and barely a scratch on the body. I want to get it fixed but I do not want to get ripped off by a shop! What should I start with? Fluid replacement? The shop said they did find metal bits in the pan when they pulled it. What do I need to be telling the transmission shop so I don't get f$&@d? What w be my max cost on this problem? I just do not wanna dole out 2k to have it also be a PCM issue. At that point I have paid as much as the car is worth. Thanks for the help in advance I wanna hold on to this car!

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