Spin a Bearing, win a prize! My 01 LS V8 quest for bearings.

Gearheadloco

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Gang,

If you ever wondered what a "spun" crankshaft main bearing looks like, here's one of two from my engine alongside a worn but intact neighbor
Bearing.jpg


The other bearing spun itself into oblivion and was just a few shards in the bottom of the oil pan. Boy oh boy is it ever difficult to find crankshaft main and thrust bearings for the 3.9L V8. I've been able to find a good used crankshaft as these two bad bearings did a real number on my old crankshaft. Most of the parts required for a proper bottom-end rebuild of the 3.9L V8 just aren't available anymore. I was able to find new piston rings (Mahle) but almost everything else has to come from a dismantler as hopefully usable old parts. I've to ordered connecting rod bearings used in the S-type Jaguar 4.0L V8 from Terrys Jaguar (thanks to a referral from a member on this forum!)

Piston and Connecting Rod - V8: Terrys Jaguar Parts

... and I've just purchased used crankshaft main and thrust bearings on eBay, also from a S-type 4.0L Jaguar. Terry's Jaguar CAN get these S-type 4.0L crankshaft bearings new, so if the used S-type bearings are identical to my old LS 3.9L bearings then maybe I'm in luck. If you wondering my machinist buddy doesn't want me to re-use the crankshaft bearings from my engine because they were exposed to the fine metallic grit created when my bearings spun to death. I just hope I will have a choice!

Once we pick a bearing strategy and start to reassemble the engine, I'll take and post photos of my progress for your viewing pleasure.

Phil
San Diego
 
If you search recent threads, you'll find that it's necessary to source main bearing shells from England. There are places in the US that do so and carry them, and a search through the internet will find them for you. You'll discover that the going price is between $6 and $10 per shell or $60-$100 for a complete set.

Are you sure your block and/or the main-girdle aren't damaged?

KS
 
Hi KS,

Thanks so much for your suggestions! Surpringly the block and the crankshaft main bearing housings are in good shape. The previous owner must have had good hearing and shut the engine down quickly after the connecting rod bearings spun.

Terry's Jaguar does seem to have the connecting rod bearings available in three sizes and for two different engine series - not for the Lima built 3.9 V8 but for the S-Type 4.0L. They show a diagram for the 4.0L crankshaft with main and thrust bearings indicated, but they don't list them as orderable parts. Do you know if the 4.0L crank and thrust bearings really are identical to the Lincoln LS 3.9 V8?

Other than Terry's Jaguar, I have been unable to find anyone on the internet that even talks about 3.9L/4.0L bearings, much less sell them. Except for DNJ in Chatsworth, but they have discontinued the parts. Any info you could share is most welcome. My plan at the moment is thoroughly measure my existing bearings and then get on the phone with Terry's Jaguar and pray these two engines are identical when it comes to connecting rod and crank bearings.

Phil
San Diego
 
I've never tried to put Jag bearings in a Lima block, but there must be drawings that show crank-pin measurements. Application call-outs can be very deceptive.

KS
 
It's really weird - I found a copy of the FoMoCo official service manual for the 2001 LS on eBay and bought it, but strangely it has no real engine data for either engine - the V6 or the V8. Another weird thing - even though the service manual is hundreds and hundreds of pages long, there are NO instructions on dismantling the block and replacing connecting rod or crankshaft bearings, pistons, crankshaft, etc. They cover the heads but not the bottom end.

I don't think Ford/Lincoln EVER wanted their mechanics to take apart the bottom end of either engine!

The manual does recommend replacing head bolts because they are Torque-to-Yield (TTY) bolts. Thank goodness they are still available. But I'm wondering if the connecting rod cap bolts and all of the bolts that hold the block together around the crankshaft are also TTY?

I did find this data on this forum, but I think it refers to the S-Type 4.0L engine (because of the bore and stroke), not our 3.9L Lima Ohio-built motor:

Bore and stroke 86 mm x 86 mm (3.4 in. x 3.4 in.)
Crankshaft
Number of main bearings journals 5
Main bearing journal diameter 62 mm (2.441 in.)
Main bearing width 20 mm (0.787 in.)
Main bearing oil clearance 0.025 – 0.050mm (0.001– 0.002 in.)
Crankshaft end float 0.07 – 0.27 mm (0.0027 – 0.010 in.)

Connecting Rods
Number of connecting rod journals 4
Connecting rod journal diameter 56 mm (2.204 in.)
Connecting rod bearing width 16 mm (0.630 in.)
Connecting rod bearings oil clearance 0.035 – 0.063 mm (0.0014 – 0.0025 in.)
Connecting rods
Number of connecting rods 8
Center to center dimension 151.75 mm (5.974 in.)

I guess I'm going to find out once and for all if the Ford 3.9L and Jaguar 4.0L really do share bottom end parts!

What fun.

Phil
San Diego
 
That's what I thought! Another member on the forum commented that at the time (2000 - 2006), this Jaguar-derived engine was not like anything else Ford/Lincoln/Mercury was building and I think he's absolutely right. You are right - they didn't document the procedure because they didn't want their mechanics to be choosing bearing shells by the halve and deciding whether they needed "green" "yellow" or "blue" bearing halves!

I lived in England for several years in the early 90's. Wonderful people but some of their ideas are a bit odd!

Phil
San Diego
 
It's common practice among European car companies to replace the engine with a new or factory rebuilt unit. Their emission standards are severely more strict than USA emission laws. Though I'm a Chrysler employee, I was told by a friend at Ford that these engines were made by Jaguar for Ford to be used strictly in the LS and Thunderbird and no other models. I have read some posts about also being in a Jaguar, but I have never seen one. It might be worth it to find a good motor and swap it out. My nephew owns a 04 LS 3.9, I don't know what his obsession with this hunk of junk is, but I'm about to buy him something else and watch the LS go through the crusher.
 
That's what I thought! Another member on the forum commented that at the time (2000 - 2006), this Jaguar-derived engine was not like anything else Ford/Lincoln/Mercury was building and I think he's absolutely right. You are right - they didn't document the procedure because they didn't want their mechanics to be choosing bearing shells by the halve and deciding whether they needed "green" "yellow" or "blue" bearing halves!

I lived in England for several years in the early 90's. Wonderful people but some of their ideas are a bit odd!

Phil
San Diego
Can I assume you've tried rockauto? I'm rebuilding a 3.0L V6 LS engine and rock had all the bearings I needed.
 
Hi,

Yes, I'm a big fan of RockAuto too. I tried PartsGeek and every other online parts house I could think of! I called Ford locally here in San Diego to ask them over the phone and they said no, they had NEVER stocked parts for the bottom end of the 3.9L V8. I couldn't believe it, so I drove over to a different dealership and asked the parts manager personally. He said no dice, but I can give you a good deal on a crate long block - $3500! DNJ Engine Components in Los Angeles said they made bearings for this engine, but when I tried to order them it turned out they had been discontinued in 2014.

But I think I might be able to get what I need from one of two or three importers that get parts for Jaguars directly from some of the original suppliers in England and Scotland. I'm in the process of measuring all of my bearings and housings and hoping the Brits can help me out. You are a lucky guy in that your V6 was apparently a Ford design that preceded Ford's purchase of Jaguar. I'm left to pray that the 4.0L V8 in the Jaguar S-Type used the same bearings as the Ford 3.9L V8! Fingers crossed.
 
It's common practice among European car companies to replace the engine with a new or factory rebuilt unit. Their emission standards are severely more strict than USA emission laws. Though I'm a Chrysler employee, I was told by a friend at Ford that these engines were made by Jaguar for Ford to be used strictly in the LS and Thunderbird and no other models. I have read some posts about also being in a Jaguar, but I have never seen one. It might be worth it to find a good motor and swap it out. My nephew owns a 04 LS 3.9, I don't know what his obsession with this hunk of junk is, but I'm about to buy him something else and watch the LS go through the crusher.

My dad was a 35-year Chrysler employee too! Now that he's gone I tell everyone I meet that he was the best mechanic Chrysler ever had, and my good luck with rebuilding American, German and Japanese engines as a hobby is all because of watching my dad work.

I've never torn apart a British engine before (it was manufactured in Lima Ohio but it's really an English design) but I'm actually pretty impressed. One of my long-time favorites is Toyota/Lexus's 4.0L V8 that they put in early Lexus LS and SC400 models. It was WAY ahead of its time in the mid-1980's and is one of most rugged aluminum V8's I've ever worked on, and I have to say the 3.9L/4.0L Jaguar engine compares pretty favorably. Jaguar of course doesn't have the design resources of a Chrysler or Toyota or BMW - but they did pretty well with this engine despite that. Just my two cents.

Phil
San Diego
 
... about to buy him something else and watch the LS go through the crusher.

Love the smack talk, now lets have a look ... see if you can do me a video on this !!!
 
I too bought a couple different service manuals hoping to discover the specifications for the 3.9L short block, but the official factory line for the short block was "pull and replace". I also found it odd that there was not a periodic maintenance procedure for checking and adjusting the camshaft lobe to shim bucket follower clearance for the the 3.9L engine. I had to do this for the Yamaha V6 in the Taurus SHO years ago and the valve train design is nearly identical in the 3.9L engines. That is one of the reasons I always ran SM (not the newer SL or SN) rated oil in the 3.9L. I was hoping the SM oil with the higher levels of ZDDP would help keep the shim and lobe wear to a minimum.
 
Gang,

If you ever wondered what a "spun" crankshaft main bearing looks like, here's one of two from my engine alongside a worn but intact neighbor
View attachment 828566362

The other bearing spun itself into oblivion and was just a few shards in the bottom of the oil pan. Boy oh boy is it ever difficult to find crankshaft main and thrust bearings for the 3.9L V8. I've been able to find a good used crankshaft as these two bad bearings did a real number on my old crankshaft. Most of the parts required for a proper bottom-end rebuild of the 3.9L V8 just aren't available anymore. I was able to find new piston rings (Mahle) but almost everything else has to come from a dismantler as hopefully usable old parts. I've to ordered connecting rod bearings used in the S-type Jaguar 4.0L V8 from Terrys Jaguar (thanks to a referral from a member on this forum!)

Piston and Connecting Rod - V8: Terrys Jaguar Parts

... and I've just purchased used crankshaft main and thrust bearings on eBay, also from a S-type 4.0L Jaguar. Terry's Jaguar CAN get these S-type 4.0L crankshaft bearings new, so if the used S-type bearings are identical to my old LS 3.9L bearings then maybe I'm in luck. If you wondering my machinist buddy doesn't want me to re-use the crankshaft bearings from my engine because they were exposed to the fine metallic grit created when my bearings spun to death. I just hope I will have a choice!

Once we pick a bearing strategy and start to reassemble the engine, I'll take and post photos of my progress for your viewing pleasure.

Phil
San Diego
Phil. Did you ever get the 3.9 running? Did the 4.0 bearings work . I am in desperate need of a set of mail bearings. Let me know
Thanks
Tim
 

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