Motor Swap

[Csutter35]

Ok I know, I know, I know but give time to say it. Ok here goes I know we are dream the big swap but I'm not beating that dead horse. I want to know if .... drum roll, my 01 V8 Ls can fit 03 motor and what need to be switched. I know the intake,EGR exhaust and cooling pipes up front are different but what else is different. I ask because my motor is more expensive and along with there is not as many out there.i found an 03 engine online for 300 to 700. Yet mine is 700 to 1200!? I see an added point like the newer motor has more power.. will it mount to my trans no problem? Also can I swap parts over from old 01 engine to the 03 to 06 engine. I throw a rod in mine at 172kmmiles and not happy but I wanna keep my baby. Only reason why I'm asking is got her 3 years ago put a warranty on her and the trans got replaced and I spent way to much money for a her and wife hate her but I'm keeping it and I'm doing the swap myself. So if anyone can tell me the difference cause I been reading and I'm only noticing variable timing is what they really changed. Also will my alternator go with it since it is the old crapper one?

 

[grizzlyls]

No its way more than that. All the all the electronic control systems changed. Transmission too. You can do - and I highly advise an 02 motor. Beyond 03, your better off getting one of these low cost cars lsjsf puts up and part out your first.

Im not the technical expert, but having converted my 01 engine to an 02, the expense isnt worth it - and I didnt have to do electronics.

 

[joegr]

V6 or V8?
You won't be able to get more power out. You might be able to get it to work. You'd probably have to swap the heads and everything above. You would have to retain your old alternator, the 2nd gen one won't work on your car. All in all, this is likely to cost you as much or more than if you just buy the more expensive gen 1 engine.

Another alternative would be to sell what remains of your car and get a 2nd gen. There are lots of improvements there.

 

[grizzlyls]

The version joe mentioned is right. I have V8 and assumed that sorry.

 

[cammerfe]

Please accept what I say with this proviso: I'm an old hot-rodder who, in my youth knew a guy who swapped the engine from a P-51 fighter airplane into his '20s Ford sedan. ANYTHING will go into anything.

For what you want to do, set the two engines side-by-side on the garage floor. Remove all the accessories from the later engine and install the heads and intake system from the earlier engine on the later one. Install the earlier accessories on the later engine. Re-install your newly-recreated engine. Go about your business.

It took me a couple of minutes to type this. It'll probably take a weekend or a bit more to do what I've just described, based on how much previous experience you have under your belt. (The first time I changed an intake manifold, it took me an entire weekend to do so, and another week to get the three Stromberg carbs to run right on my '53 Merc with flathead engine. I could probably do so, now, in an hour or so.)

The car won't know when the block was cast, or the crank or the pistons. If the electronic system matches what came with the car originally, the car will be 'happy'.

KS

 

[Csutter35]

Thanks guys, I'm thinking I'll have just buckle down and buy gen 1 motor but I'm trying to find low miles like 120k miles or less on one. I am second owner on this and I think person before definately, didn't treat motor to well speak I kept everything up today and upgrade a lot. And put 30k on it. If you guys know of any gen1 motors for under 800 that be great.

 

[Csutter35]

Its is V8 by the way! Sorry

 

[grizzlyls]

What I said about finding an 02 (or a 01 built post May 2001) is you will have the much needed and important Timing chain update in that engine. Otherwise whatever tired Pre May 2001 engine you find will likely have weak timing chains - thus more expense.

What Cammerfe described, btw, is possibly and easier way and cheaper way of correcting the gen 1 timing chain issue than what I did, lol.

 

[Csutter35]

I have new timing chain ... water pump... gaskets forever everything.... I sent this car to shop it sat for a month before they told me anything ... the wanted me to fix it there I said hell no... took home and in 20 min found where the rod pierce the head and block .... whatever info I can get will be great guys. The old motor I replace upper tensioner and chain. One side popped I fixed and replace tensioner on other side. But now that is shot. But all advance will help!

 

[grizzlyls]

When I converted mine to the second version chains (also second gen) timing chains at 100k it was the second round of the originals for this car. I am still trying to trace why/how they would go through the trouble of putting bad design chains in replacement of bad design chains! Anyhow if all you did was work on the top, you likely still have the bad design chains on the bottom, all depending on you cars build date. BTW, the revision also included a better oil pump system.

 

[Csutter35]

For me it was plastic part that failed. The chains were good but plastic was poo

 

[MIdsm]

The newer engine should bolt to the older transmission and the old transmission will match the chasis. My understanding is that the cam trickery won't work if the controls aren't connected so some power will be lost. Nothing should be damaged by leaving the solenoids unplugged. Couldn't he just throw the old intake manifold, egr and the wiring harness on the newer engine and be done with it? If the cam sensor trigers aren't same just transfer the old cams to the new heads. What am I missing? Did the firing order change (then install the old cams)? Is the crank different? Brackets from the old engine ought to bolt up to the new one. Have the oil pan drilled for the alternator lower bolt or just use the old oil pan. There are some interesting threads on jaguarforums.com of folks updating and backdating blocks and heads. The supercharged crowd would take a naturally aspirated motor, remove the cam control stuff and plug a hole or two at the front of the heads.

 

[DeviLSh]

The LVC user Dwiggy swapped a gen2 motor into his gen1, successfully. BUT this car was also converted to manual, and if I recall, he maintained the drive by cable from the gen1, deleted the EGR, and also did not use the cam timing for the gen2. So it was most likely not running at full steam. I would argue Dwiggy was(is) a highly capable individual with know how, tools, and time to make this work. His car also had a lot of other things done to it prior to the gen2 swap which made it a little more feasible. But it has been done is all I am getting at there.

If cost benefit is your thing I would think the cheapest option is parting/selling the gen1, and buying a gen2 CAR and then doing all the repairs every LS needs.

 

[Csutter35]

Yeah... it sucks im still paying on this car since I finance it instead paying cash. So kind stuck with since I'm back in school for medical.... I'm def capable of doin the work but ... my old heads are screwed and old block is as well. I'm going find hopefully a lower mileage gen1 update timing few other things and let ride for 2 more years after that.... crown Vic motors are cheap and 4.6 will be great in this. It be a job but hey when I'm done with school I can afford the time and parts for custom fab.

 

[Csutter35]

Waittt. If I buy an new block 03 and use my heads I can swap everything, beduase I think my heads and cams are ok. Just have new block and will it mate to the trans I have from 00.

 

[cammerfe]

Please see information provided above. There are minor differences between generation 1 engines and generation 2, but the different parts aren't a difficult swap. The ECM on a generation one car will work the engine just fine if the sensors from the gen one are in place and plugged in properly. It's really the easiest sort of swap.

What you are doing is simply substituting one short block for another.

Gen One engines have an ordinary mechanical linkage for the throttle. Gen two has a 'drive-by-wire' arrangement.

KS

 

[Csutter35]

I am, I just trying to see if the core aka block will mate To my trans then if the rest of my accessories and head will fit to the 03-06 block, so no electronics are changed just the block is?

 

[joegr]

The newer engine should bolt to the older transmission and the old transmission will match the chasis. ...

Yes

...My understanding is that the cam trickery won't work if the controls aren't connected so some power will be lost. Nothing should be damaged by leaving the solenoids unplugged. Couldn't he just throw the old intake manifold, egr and the wiring harness on the newer engine and be done with it? ...

Perhaps, but the valve timing will be off for most engine speeds, so it may run poorly.

.... If the cam sensor trigers aren't same just transfer the old cams to the new heads. What am I missing? Did the firing order change (then install the old cams)? Is the crank different? ...

I doubt that the old cams will fit the new heads and the new timing chains, but I guess they might.
No firing order or crank changes that I know of.

... Have the oil pan drilled for the alternator lower bolt or just use the old oil pan. ...

I think that you may be confusing the sump body with the oil pan. Nothing mounts to the tiny oil pan on either generation. Removing/replacing the sump body is a major thing.

This (to me) is not a question of can it be done (it can), but is it practical to do. In my opinion, it will cost him more to do this than to pay the extra for an engine that fits.