Future Swap, Thoughts & Ideas?

xjoncostello

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Well I'm looking to the Future for this one when the day my motor dies.
So just looking for some thoughts and a little how to, or what I might need to get going.
My Main Choice would be a
4G63 6 Bolt motor. 89-92 Eclipse/Talon
I've seen a mustang with one dropped in,
And think it would be pretty cool to drop in an LS. Obviously not now but when that time comes. I love dsm's , I love the 4g63, parts are cheap, making 400-500hp is easy to accomplish. So any ideas what this kind of swap would take?
I have a 2006 LS V8
 
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Right on! ... Another one. Always interesting.
 
Right on! ... Another one. Always interesting.

Lol figured I'd get one of these.
The point is I'm not looking to swap it and keep all the luxuries. Mostly just running and driving and for a fun drag car. And again for a future Swap, nothing now, maybe 2 years down the road. Just trying to get some insight on what to expect. Not looking for the money response or time response, it'll obviously be a future project, that I'll be doing myself, not a shop. Just trying to get as much information as I can, so when the time comes I'll have some ideas.
 
I would advise against it. Cheap - yes. Possible - yes.

Info about rwd 4g63 setups including utilizing a t56:

projectzerog.com
 
Didn't say impossible, said near impossible.
 
I'm not doing swaps but if I were I'd look at the 3.7V6 with transmission from a late model Mustang. 300hp, cheap and should fit. The electronics of course are another story.
 
... and it will run circles around this dated 3.9L
 
Oh absolutely for sure, just if I had the time I'd be putting an LS1 in there man

 
... and it will run circles around this dated 3.9L
yeah, but I wouldn't want to put that motor in something so heavy, the LS weighs near half a ton more than a talon/eclipse... especially with the lag those motors tend to have, your going to have to work it over nicely just to make it as fact as a stock DSM. if your going to go for a import motor, might as well start with something thats got a little more area under the curve, many places are starting to import 2J's with low miles now days, or if you really want a 4 banger but not lose on TQ, could always go with a 4BT.
 
No worries, just toss a handful of mothballs in with next fill up.
 
As I've said here many times, I knew a guy, long ago, who put an Allison out of a P-51 in an early ('29?) Ford sedan and made it drivable. So ANYTHING is doable. The combination of methanol and NX nitrous oxide that I've installed on my '02 makes theoretically possible the production of between 650 and 700 HP and the car is a daily driver. I've only loaded it to about 400 HP but it's just a matter of changing jets. The factory internals probably wouldn't last long with the full load.

The extra hardware to accomplish the higher numbers would cost, today, a bit more than $1K but less than $1500. The basic installation could be accomplished, part time, in less than a week. Why use all the Asian hardware and forego a goodly part of what makes an LS an LS?

KS
 
As I've said here many times, I knew a guy, long ago, who put an Allison out of a P-51 in an early ('29?) Ford sedan and made it drivable. So ANYTHING is doable. The combination of methanol and NX nitrous oxide that I've installed on my '02 makes theoretically possible the production of between 650 and 700 HP and the car is a daily driver. I've only loaded it to about 400 HP but it's just a matter of changing jets. The factory internals probably wouldn't last long with the full load.

The extra hardware to accomplish the higher numbers would cost, today, a bit more than $1K but less than $1500. The basic installation could be accomplished, part time, in less than a week. Why use all the Asian hardware and forego a goodly part of what makes an LS an LS?

KS
yeah, but I wouldn't want to put that motor in something so heavy, the LS weighs near half a ton more than a talon/eclipse... especially with the lag those motors tend to have, your going to have to work it over nicely just to make it as fact as a stock DSM. if your going to go for a import motor, might as well start with something thats got a little more area under the curve, many places are starting to import 2J's with low miles now days, or if you really want a 4 banger but not lose on TQ, could always go with a 4BT.

I just think it would be a fun swap to try. I bought my LS because of its looks and because it was fully loaded. I love the motor in it, but if I knew there was nothing much to do except intake, exhaust, and tune, I probably would've went with something else. Not hating on this car whatsoever, I actually love it alot.
And only reason I am Leaning towards a future 4g63 swap is because I know that motor, I've owned several DSM's and making the power to move a heavy LS would be no problem.
The aftermarket support for the LS is just not there unfortunately. Unless someone has a bolt on Supercharger or turbo kit to drop in it , I'd be a happy camper.
I can't even get an AUX adapter for this bad boy :/ , damn THX Nav.
 
Entire supercharged Jaguar engines are quite often available. Either swap in the whole engine or just put the upper end on your current engine. Either approach would be considerably easier than what you've proposed.

Several years ago I bought an entire four litre Jag engine, for a core, and paid $750 for it. The last time I looked you could buy several 4.2 litre engines, complete, for under five grand. The engine itself is a bolt-up but you'd need to put all the 3.9 sensors on to enable all the electronics to work.

KS
 
I definitely would not recommend just swapping over the top end on our glass bottoms end.

unless you are going turn the boost WAY down, its just going to end like every other blown FI motor except for maybe one or two that have rolled through here over the years.
 
Entire supercharged Jaguar engines are quite often available. Either swap in the whole engine or just put the upper end on your current engine. Either approach would be considerably easier than what you've proposed.

Several years ago I bought an entire four litre Jag engine, for a core, and paid $750 for it. The last time I looked you could buy several 4.2 litre engines, complete, for under five grand. The engine itself is a bolt-up but you'd need to put all the 3.9 sensors on to enable all the electronics to work.

KS

I'm with @cammerfe on this. I've seen a lot of 3.9's, 4.0's and 4.2's for sale for what I consider to be pretty cheap. In fact, once I get most of the major work done on this one, I think I am going to pick one up this summer just to have something to putter with on the engine stand (since this one is going to my son I'm already planning the purchase of #2!) I think adding a 4.2 blower to a 3.9 would be a fun fab project. All stainless fab cooling parts would be task #1!
 
I definitely would not recommend just swapping over the top end on our glass bottoms end.

unless you are going turn the boost WAY down, its just going to end like every other blown FI motor except for maybe one or two that have rolled through here over the years.
 
'...glass bottom end'? The AJ engine has been used not only the American cars (Ford, Lincoln and Jag) but also in the European Jag, Land Rover and Aston Martin. The design is used in Formula 1 engines. The 'bed plate' or 'girdle' is the strongest possible way to create a set of main bearing caps and the entire thing is tied to the bottom of the block in such a way as to give GREAT structural rigidity.

You can complain about PM rods, but they are more than good enough for anything but full-on racing.

Although Jaguar Racing ultimately cast greater thickness blocks for endurance racing they were of exactly the same design as production pieces---although simplified somewhat for a race-type dry-sump oiling system. Aston Martin used a different type of dry sump but still used the same design block.

KS
 
I don't give two sh!ts about what Jag racing, Aston, Rovers, ect use... their versions are not the same as ours. I never said the entire AJ line of motors are rubbish. so yes, the 3.9 that we have been blessed with does have what I would call a glass bottom end since just about every boosted one has blown up something in the short block short of Rob who pulled his turbo out not long after putting it in and sold the car, and Lou who had a relativity low boost m90 application. the other few people have either broke a rod or piston (cam, strap, alex...) none of those guys were doing any full-on racing and yet there parts failed. yes the way the block is built is nice and strong, but that is not the problem here. same as the mark guys, the Teksid blocks are not the reason you cant just go around throwing the kind of boost into the stock motor that you can with a bone stock terminator long block...

now if you can show me a F1 car or boosted Jag or Aston that has our exact engine in it, then I will retract my previous statement, but when there are more blown up boosted LS engines than there are good and still running boosted engines I will stick by my previous statement. this is also why you keep telling us about how powerful your twin turbo setup is going to be if you ever get it finished but yet you don't plan on sticking with your original bottom end and back years ago when you were planning on keeping the stock block, you were going to/did have custom pistons and rods made for it.

there is a very good reason that all of the factory boosted AJ applications have stronger bottom end parts than what out engines have. and for that same reason is why it is a bad ideal to only swap tops ends. end of story.
 
Gee whiz, golly---

The four litre Jag in my storage has the same rods and pistons as what comes in a US 3.9 except for the size differences. I decided to use aftermarket rods and pistons because of the planned use of high boost---beyond 20 pounds. The 'beefed-up components that went into the racing Jags were there to take the beating of endurance racing---such as 12 Hours at Sebring and 24 hours at LeMans.

I'm not a fan of the use of sintered powdered-metal rods for high boost and I believe an aluminium rod is good insurance on any high boost application. Forged pistons are also a good idea although my Ross pistons are direct copies of the factory slugs. I did apply heat barrier and lubricity coatings as well.

I successfully used as much as an extra 150 horsepower worth of spray and along with the spray I used methanol as the added fuel. There is almost 50K additional miles on the car since I set the records and all the extra hardware is in place although it doesn't get used every day. The engine doesn't use oil between changes. And I don't believe the mechanical parts know the difference between the load applied by supercharger boost and the all-at-once 'hit' of turning on 150 horsepower, and the associated torque by tripping a switch to dump a load of methanol/nitrous oxide all at one time. Except, now that I think about it a bit, the 'hammer' of an instant 150 HP is probably quite a bit more drastic than the gradual extra loading of a ramping-up blower.

And please understand that I didn't simply bolt the extra hardware on and instantly set the records. I fooled with it over a whole season of trial-and-error before everything came together and I got to where I wanted to be. Ultimately I set four records in one day and in two classes. But the engine took a fair beating while I worked things out.

KS
 
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you're right, all of the blown FI motors are purely a coincidence. I can't understand how such a rock solid motor can just have such bad luck. you would think that a motor that was built for boost would have better results or odds of it working out.
 
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I bought the car new and know exactly how the maintenance was done. I believe everybody else started with an 'unknown' used car. This may have something to do with it. I think I remember Quik LS bought his car new and, as you'll remember, it was a crash after quite a few months of driving that caused the demise of his car and not any sort of engine failure.

KS
 
which is why I specifically called out his car as being one of the couple that lasted

don't forget, his M90 was only putting out 4-5 psi most of the time which is (relatively) extremely low boost, he tried it at 7 for a couple of days but turned it back down because of his fear of breaking something (rightfully so)

aside from that, people buy used mustangs and camaros all the time with "unknown" maintenance records and have very good luck throwing boost at them without them breaking at a rate of over 50%
 

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