Exhaust Question

Austin Hull

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Ok so I have a stock ls 2005.

I love the car, just hate the sound. I really like the sound of the bassani exhaust.

I'm not much of a car guy. But can I just get them put on the stock pipes? or whats the cheapest setup?

I did search around, just found some really old posts about it and thanks again for reading and this cool forum.
 
You can cut off the stock mufflers (behind rear wheels) and weld on the new mufflers in place. You're probably best off buying new exhaust tips, rather than trying to salvage the old ones. Supposedly, cutting out the resonators and replacing them with straight pipe is "life changing" for the sound. Just about any exhaust shop should be able to weld on the new mufflers and tips, and use any size adapters or extra pipe.
 
You can cut off the stock mufflers (behind rear wheels) and weld on the new mufflers in place. You're probably best off buying new exhaust tips, rather than trying to salvage the old ones. Supposedly, cutting out the resonators and replacing them with straight pipe is "life changing" for the sound. Just about any exhaust shop should be able to weld on the new mufflers and tips, and use any size adapters or extra pipe.

Badass man. Thanks for the info. How much you think I should be paying a shop to stick on new ones/tips? (Doesn't seem like much work at all with tools a shop has.)

Most the videos I seen with different exhausts have the resonators removed. I just want a good sound. Stock this thing is crazy quiet.
 
Someone else will have to give you a fair price. I would think under $100 labor? It may not be much work to weld new parts on, but they still have to remove old ones, which I assume means more labor to remove the whole catback portion.
 
call a muffler shop and find one that will let you bring in your own mufflers (a lot won't...) or will order the brand you want. get one as close to the same size as the original, then pay the guy to cut the old mufflers off and put the new ones on (really shouldn't be more than 100 bucks for the labor) then see what you think, if you want it a little louder and more aggressive, have the same guy cut the resonators out and replace with straight pipe for a little more.
 
Badass man. Thanks for the info. How much you think I should be paying a shop to stick on new ones/tips? (Doesn't seem like much work at all with tools a shop has.)

Most the videos I seen with different exhausts have the resonators removed. I just want a good sound. Stock this thing is crazy quiet.

Bassani 4820 mufflers $89/each

Cost to cut out the old ones and weld the new ones in kinda depends where you are. Out here in Cali they'd charge you about $150, but most of the midwest you can get it done for $100 or less...
 
I got the knock of magna flow mufflers put on mine.. flow pros is the brand... also got the resonators cut out and replaced with straight pipe... im really happy with the sound... I have a youtube clip but will have to dig up the link...

Edit: got the link... http://youtu.be/8XQVHdyOtz4
 
Bassani 4820 are directional mufflers, be sure to install center IN offset OUT, member Mlara and myself confirmed this with Bassani via email. Mlara had his on backwards at that time. When you get them, you may notice there are no markings on them, be sure to point an arrow indicating flow direction so the shop knows which way they have to go on.

100_4209.jpg

100_4209.jpg
 
Bassani 4820 are directional mufflers, be sure to install center IN offset OUT, member mlara and myself confirmed this with Bassani via email. mlara had his on backwards at that time. When you get them, you may notice there are no markings on them, be sure to point an arrow indicating flow direction so the shop knows which way they have to go on.

Oh ok awesome thanks for the tip.


BigRigLS
Here's a sound clip vid of a members 06 LS V8 with a complete stock exhaust system and just the Bassani's welded in, sounds beast!

Seems a bit a mild? I'm a fan if more noise. So it looks like I'm gonna want to remove the resonators as well.


Also thanks for the postings and input of everyone else. Nice to see so many friendly people.
 
Seems a bit a mild? I'm a fan if more noise. So it looks like I'm gonna want to remove the resonators as well.

keep in mind that video was taken inside of a fairly quiet luxury car, that will make it sound much quieter... it will be a bit louder from outside of the car.


but if you are looking for sports car loud, then yeah expect to get rid of the resonators as well...


the good thing is that you can take it step by step until you get to the point where you are happy with it.
 
keep in mind that video was taken inside of a fairly quiet luxury car, that will make it sound much quieter... it will be a bit louder from outside of the car.
but if you are looking for sports car loud, then yeah expect to get rid of the resonators as well...
the good thing is that you can take it step by step until you get to the point where you are happy with it.

Hmm. I have such mixed feelings. This IS a sleek luxury car. So nothing wrong with having a milder sound. Maybe I will just take it step by step.

We shall see! Great help guys and a lot of useful threads roaming around here.
 
Hmm. I have such mixed feelings. This IS a sleek luxury car. So nothing wrong with having a milder sound. Maybe I will just take it step by step.

We shall see! Great help guys and a lot of useful threads roaming around here.

That's how I'd do it. Leave the resonators on with the new mufflers, then see how you like it. You can always go back and remove the resonators. Let the mufflers age a few weeks between though, some mufflers do need a bit of time to break in and the tone and volume may change a bit. It shouldn't cost any more money to split the job in two than it would to do it all at once.

If you really want it loud...
 

Seems like you may as well go with straight pipes...

Though I am curious as to how a pair of these would sound mated to a Magnaflow 11379 dual/dual muffler. NickT had the 11379 by itself for a while, but said it was too loud, so he added bullet mufflers.
[video=youtube;WVlgw90Ns7c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVlgw90Ns7c[/video]

I think I want something between NickT and this, just bass and crackle (though not as loud)
 
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Not too loud for me, just law enforcement


Seems like you may as well go with straight pipes...

Though I am curious as to how a pair of these would sound mated to a Magnaflow 11379 dual/dual muffler. NickT had the 11379 by itself for a while, but said it was too loud, so he added bullet mufflers.
[video=youtube;WVlgw90Ns7c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVlgw90Ns7c[/video]

I think I want something between NickT and this, just bass and crackle (though not as loud)
[video=youtube;WVlgw90Ns7c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVlgw90Ns7c[/video]
 
^ Benz sounds like a Fn moped with open pipes! BS.


...


Open exhaust as in straight pipe, not recommended! Two words ... "back pressure"

I don't hear the moped, but now I'm not sure if I like that sound. AMG V8 wagon is what excites me the most in that video.

Back pressure... oh boy. This has resulted in innumerable debates and arguments since the first time someone wanted to hotrod an internal combustion engine. It has started many internet flame wars, which is not my intention. I'm going to put in as much information as I can recall and hope for the best. I'll consider any rebuttals that use logical reasoning. This post is to the best of my knowledge and understanding.

Back pressure is for 2-stroke engines, not 4-strokes. Even in 2-strokes, it's more complicated than "need X amount". 2-strokes need X amount at the exact moment at which there is new unburnt fuel in the cylinder and the exhaust port is open/exposed. Back pressure at any other time only reduces the rate at which exhaust leaves the cylinder, reducing power by leaving more burned fuel and carbon dioxide in the cylinder, occupying precious volume.

Where does the myth of back pressure being needed come from? Sometimes, running open headers seems to roughen up the engine when you get rid of the crossover in a V-configuration engine due to the lack of scavenging between the banks. Scavenging is when the [relative] low pressure zone between one cylinder's exhaust strokes creates a vacuum force during another cylinder's exhaust stroke. Connecting the banks (the LS uses an H-pipe stock) helps one bank scavenge the other. An X-pipe does the same thing, but flows more smoothly. But the #1 reason why it seems like back pressure is needed is from going too large with replacement exhaust pipe diameters. The common analogy used to describe different exhaust pipe diameters is breathing through different size straws. Normal straw, Capri-Sun straw, and milkshake straw. It seems obvious that the larger the straw, the easier it is to breathe through. However, there' more to it when it comes to an engine than just straight flow rate based on diameter.

For one thing, the engine is pumping out gas much hotter than the surrounding area. Your O2 sensors operates between 600 and 800 degrees Fahrenheit. Yes, they're heated O2 sensors, but the heating element is only there to heat them up faster, not heat them above exhaust temperature. And yet, most cars' exhaust is only warm at the exhaust tip. You can stick your hand in the stream and feel uncomfortable at most. That is because exhaust gas cools as it passes through the pipes and, as a result, becomes denser. Now that it's denser, it moves slower. The number of molecules of exhaust exiting at the tip is equal to the number of molecules the engine is pumping in. If you look at the exhaust in "slices" (let's say a 1 inch long slice at the manifold for one cylinder), it will have a certain number of molecules. As it cools and condenses, that number of molecules occupies a thinner slice. Using gas law (pressure*volume = Boltzman's constant * number of gas molecules * temperature), if the gas cools 50%, the predefined number of molecules will occupy 50% less volume to compensate, and therefore occupy a 50% thinner "slice" of exhaust pipe at 1/2 inch long. This increases the amount of gas in the pipe and increases back pressure.

So it would seem like increasing the pipe diameter would increase flow, right? Well the answer is "not quite". Having a larger pipe means increasing the volume of gas in the system as well as increasing the surface area of the system. This means a larger pipe gives the exhaust more time and opportunity to cool, condense, and slow down, compounding the engine's problem of pushing gas through this long, constricting pipe. When you stay close to the factory diameter, you don't see much of a difference. However, when you put a 3.5" pipe on a moderate performance car that came with a 2" pipe, you're likely to see reduced power. Larger pipes actually have tremendously turbulent flow compared to smaller pipes for a given air pump (your engine). The turbulent flow causes randomized high pressure sections, low pressure sections, and generally discordant flow that fights movement, further slowing it down. Gas has momentum. That 1" slice moving down the 3.5" pipe isn't going to be as compliant as it was in the 2" pipe when it needs to turn.

"But Frank! Look at this chart from Magnaflow showing how their larger pipe increases power from the factory 02 LS, despite increasing diameter!"

15710.jpg


There's more to that system than just diameter. The Magnaflow system uses mufflers with higher flow rates (I'll assume their straight-through design), has an X-pipe instead of an H-pipe, and most importantly, has smoother bends. The factory system (at least the Gen 1) zigzags near the rear axle to move out from the driveshaft tunnel, around the differential but out of the way of the half shafts, past the toe-link nuts, around the spare tire well, and finally turns sharply into the muffler.

Gen 1 rear section (excuse the photo quality, it was unplanned and rushed with a phone)
2014-05-21 13.26.04.jpg

Now look at the Magnaflow system for the same car
611g2HyoRxL._SY355_.jpg

Instead of zigzagging, it just has one straight section going out at an angle, not concerning itself as much for those previously mentioned points of interest. The Magnaflow system is also mandrel-bent, meaning there's no bumps sticking into the exhaust flow at the bends that reduce diameter and increase turbulence.

2014-05-21 13.26.04.jpg


611g2HyoRxL._SY355_.jpg
 
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not trying to start an exhaust war argument

for whats its worth, it is my belief that when most people end up putting on a huge straight pipe set up and it feels like they actually lose power, they are actually experiencing an issue where the new exhaust messes up the scavenging effect that a well tuned system has, not the lack of back pressure...

for example, lets look at the most extreme cases of performance where every little bit of power possible is needed/wanted, race cars...

stock cars have headers ran to pipes, right out the side of the car... no real back pressure there

top fuel or funny cars, they really only have a short header to get the heat/flames directed away from the car, absolutely no back pressure there

fast turbo cars at the track usually have a dump right after the snail either pointing to the ground or right out the fender


the more air you get through the engine means the more fuel you can burn in the engine means the more power you're gonna make, any back pressure is fighting that. going with getting more air through, when you have an exhaust system, scavenging is very important because then each exhaust pulse is helping to pull the next one along.

thats just my $0.02
 
and as far as luxury cars supposed to be sounding a certain way...

F that, put this in your pipe and smoke it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR4wDPfsmZ0


I dont care what kinda of car it is, that is what a V8 motor should sound like!!! would be great if the LS had that kind of aftermarket support...

then again that motor is over 50% bigger than ours... and thats not taking into consideration the displacement doubling air compressor it has on board!
 
I think 1LoudLS has it correct, in that it's not back pressure but scavenging that is the problem. I once had a 79 GMC that I had a set of dual 3 inch exhaust installed, on a small block 350. The plan was to install a big block in the truck but my exhaust was too shot to run. I didn't want to buy two exhaust systems so went with the one. Power sucked. I later sold the truck, and the buyer installed 2.25 inch pipes from the muffler back off the mufflers, and he said power picked up quite a bit. Had I installed the correct size exhaust for a 350 from the beginning I would have been a lot happier with the truck, especially since the 454 never happened.

On the Classic Chambered mufflers, back in 1999 I bought a GMT800 Silverado 4x4 ext cab and installed a set of Dynomax Turbo Tubes on the truck. That truck had the best sounding exhaust I ever had on any vehicle ever. It sounded so good that I would actually get in the truck, drive 10 miles to the interstate, and spend about an hour or so on the interstate doing WOT runs just to hear the pipes. That truck had true duals from the cats back, 2.25 inch, with a crossover. Dynomax (the bastards) stopped making the Turbo Tubes, but the Classic Chambered are supposed to be the same thing.

As soon as the LS transmission is finished, I'm installing a new exhaust on my Silverado. Texas Speed long tube headers with crossover, Magnaflow high performance cat which will act as my crossover, then dual 2.5 inch Classic Chambered exhaust tubes all the way out the back. Can't wait. The Patriot headers I have on the truck now had to be clearanced to not hit the frame, and it is still hitting occasionally. Going to trash these. The rest of the system is rusted out, a victim of being parked in the garage with road salt for a year from when the engine was dead. Going with 2.5 because the new engine is a high output 5.3 and I think it will benefit from the slightly larger exhaust.
 
Interesting read for sure Frank, I had always understood that some back pressure was needed.
However, would you suggest that perhaps 2.5" is already too large for the LS ?
 
Not sure if this is any help to you OP, but I spent countless hours trying to decide which mufflers to buy for the LS. After all the "research", I will be going with Bassani.....now I just have to quit being a cheap ass and pull the trigger on the mufflers and get them installed.
 
Interesting read for sure Frank, I had always understood that some back pressure was needed.
However, would you suggest that perhaps 2.5" is already too large for the LS ?

If the stock exhaust system is as optimized from the factory as the engine itself (let's say only for Gen IIs because I hear G1 exhaust is poor), then yes, 2.5" is probably a little too big. HOWEVER, getting a 2.5" is not much bigger than stock, so any loss from the larger pipe is likely negated, and reversed, by the smoother bends, x-pipe, and higher-flowing mufflers from any aftermarket/custom setup (assuming no one is changing the exhaust and still keeping it quiet). If kept the shape the same as stock, with resonators and mufflers of the same, stock flow rate, I would expect larger pipes to make less power at high RPM. That being said, the LS will never make enough power for us to see, let alone feel, any significant difference.

Regardless, when I do my exhaust, I'm going with 2.5". Maybe it's just a stigma I have, like V8-or-bust (the new GT[40] with the EcoBoost V6 hurts me a little, even with mid-engined 600hp). 2.5" and 3" seem to have more options than 2/2.25 though, when it comes to parts.

Ok, stupid question, but how big is the stock exhaust piping? Magnaflow's catback #15710? I've found mixed answers. LvC posts have 1-7/8, 2, and 2.25 for stock, as reported by different users. One post claimed it's 2" pre-resonator, 1-7/8 post-. Magnaflow's site claims 2.25 for their system, but posts here and the Amazon product page says 2.5"

I realize not knowing the LS' stock pipe size seems to poke a hole in my post, but I know 2.5" is bigger than stock. It's too wet here to crawl under and measure.
 

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