High Output Alternator ever resolved? Amp current Help?

jgscott

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So I searched and saw a few threads here were the 1st Gen LS PCM will not allow a High Output Alternator to work? Correct?

Here's my dilemma, 02 LS V8 Sport. In the process of installing 2 or 3 Class A/B amps, about 2000 watts+. I've read that my Zapco can draw in excess of 120amps by itself let alone the other my other (2) 5 ch amps that will be installed also.

So thus far because my reg battery went bad (system was Not in yet), and I upgraded from the OEM stock Battery (1035CA/875CCA, 80ah) to a New Battery bigger with (1260CA/1125CCA, 95ah). Hope someone is not going to tell me the stock system will not be able to charge it correctly:(.

My next plan was to install a 2nd Small 12 volt 35ah sealed Gel battery and a Good Capacitor (CAP). And maybe redo the trunk grounds and good grounds to the trunk with 1gauge wire.

Any experienced comments, about the Alternator situation or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
could you run 2 battery systems?
leave the stock system more or less intact,
and add batteries and self regulating alternators as necessary to run your sound equipment separately.
 
I havent been able to try any more HO alts recently. Ohio Generator and Wrangler say they can make a HO alt work using the factory internals. I have not tried either one yet so there is no proof that HO alts work on the gen1.

Adding a 1.5 farad cap really helped my system. I'm only running 200watts rms but I also have an 18amp electric cooling fan sucking power.

At this point your best bet is to somehow add an alternator to your system. This will require custom brackets, longer belt, a second battery and wiring. Use this system for your audio only.
 
ok, so I am not going, try the 2 alternator deal. Too much potential headaches long term. And I'm not going to buy a $700 alternator either. So.......... That brings me to ask.

1. Will the stock alternator handle 2 battery's ok? I think it will.

2. There are a few 160a High Output LS Alternators out there. Not 200A - 220A but 160A. Are we sure the 160a one wont work? Maybe a little better than stock because it is at a constant Maximum output?

3. A shop rebuilding a LS Stock alternator? Will that work?
 
I have a HO alternator on my Gen1 LS, or at least that's what the ebay seller sold it to me as. works great, never tested output really...
 
I have a HO alternator on my Gen1 LS, or at least that's what the ebay seller sold it to me as. works great, never tested output really...

More than likely you're not seeing
a higher output at idle. If anything, the PCM might have it lower than factory. The entire issue with HO alts is the extremely low output at idle that the pcm regulate
s for fuel economy.

Hites HO thread went over this a year ago. I tried many attempts with Wrangler, including a hairpin-style model that is more stable than s-wound with a custom bracket. It didn't fit exactly right and still showed amp decay at idle.

The final test was a Frankenstein pigtail that involved bypassing the comms link to PCM and having a wire turn off the check engine lamp. I didn't really care for that setup and with the mounting being extremely hard on the different bodied alternator I gave up.

Eldon at wrangler stayed with it and tried his best but it is just too complex of a system to figure out.

Torrie who does the xcal tunes wanted to turn up the stock voltage from 15v to 16v. I would've tried it with my upgraded battery but the tune wouldn't download and I was advised against it by other members.....I still believe it to be the best shot at getting PCM to try to up the amps at idle
 
More than likely you're not seeing
a higher output at idle. If anything, the PCM might have it lower than factory. The entire issue with HO alts is the extremely low output at idle that the pcm regulate
s for fuel economy.

Hites HO thread went over this a year ago. I tried many attempts with Wrangler, including a hairpin-style model that is more stable than s-wound with a custom bracket. It didn't fit exactly right and still showed amp decay at idle.

The final test was a Frankenstein pigtail that involved bypassing the comms link to PCM and having a wire turn off the check engine lamp. I didn't really care for that setup and with the mounting being extremely hard on the different bodied alternator I gave up.

Eldon at wrangler stayed with it and tried his best but it is just too complex of a system to figure out.

Torrie who does the xcal tunes wanted to turn up the stock voltage from 15v to 16v. I would've tried it with my upgraded battery but the tune wouldn't download and I was advised against it by other members.....I still believe it to be the best shot at getting PCM to try to up the amps at idle

Thanks I saw the Thread but it kind of fell of with no conclusion.

I thought I read that twas something in the stock alternator that also had something to do with it. That's why I was wondering if a stock alternator modified to high output would work?

Also does anyone know, or have tried just using the stock system and stock alternator with 2 battery's will charge both the battery's ok?

BTW: The new larger battery I just installed which is about 3-4inches taller, and 4-5 inches longer and puts out (1260CA/1125CCA, 95ah) rating does seem to be charging ok in my car. Good thing there is lots of room in the trunk battery space.

I tried a little test tonight. I cut all the accessories on in the car,all lights, radio, full a/c blowing, stock CD radio, then sat in the car with my girlfriend and moved both front power seats back and forth. Normally as long as I could remember I would get dimming headlights when doing this. Tonight I did not see any dimming at all with the bigger battery. May or may not mean anything. But..... there was a difference.

Also here is a quote post on that old thread from Jbdlse:

"everybody is correct yes the computer is controlling the alternator charge, the object is to trick the computer... which Ohio generators has done, now the only problem that I had as I had to send the alternator back one time for a different pin connector, upon return of the alternator I have a steady 13.8 volts all the way around under any kind of load. at any rpm. Itd very expensive though.... the easiest way to alleviate this is to wire dual batteries. preferably a dry cell with a wet cell battery wired in parallel you must have a battery isolator though and a voltage regulator, it puts very minimal stress on the alternator, and if you really wanna minimal stress on your alternator, you can wire to 6 volts in a series circuit parallel to your wet cell battery, which will in turn create 12 volts your averageamperage will depend on what 6 volts batteries you purchase"
 
I have a HO alternator on my Gen1 LS, or at least that's what the ebay seller sold it to me as. works great, never tested output really...

Do you have amps in your car? If so, how many, and how large, watts?
 
No I do not have any amps, car is bone stock.

I opted for a higher output alternator only because of all the batteries my LS has eaten up over the years. Felt like it didn't take much strain on the system to kill them. Thought I had read somewhere that the LS's charging system output was pretty much jusssst enough to handle the car stock.
 
Thanks. So anybody else know any other recommendations?

And if you could have the stock alternator modified?
 
If your only concern is the alt not keeping the battery topped off, I would first suggest that you replace all primary power wiring. This iws the wiring from the battery to the starter, from the alternator to the battery, and from the battery to the power distribution center (PDS). I suggest using welding cable for this, 2ga for the starter to battery, and 4ga from the alternator to the battery and the PDS. This will eliminate almost all resistance in the primary power distribution system which will help keep the battery charged. In addition, you can put the battery on a charger for a top-up once a week. Supposedly a weekly top-up on the battery can help the battery last almost indefinitely.

If you want a more powerful sound system, you may just need to put a deep cycle battery, maybe 2-3, in to run the sound system and not connect them to the alternator at all. Run separate grounds instead of relying upon using the body as a ground like one normally might to keep them completely isolated. Also install a high quality battery charging system in a way that you can just drop a plug and go every night. It will need to be one that can safely be left plugged in, able to fully charge all batteries in the system, and be able to shut off charging without damaging the batteries. It should have enough capacity to run your stereo system as long as you want for a day or two without charging.

The only hard part would be the easy way to plug it in. They do have a new charging system where you pull over a pad and it transfers power via an induction charger, no plug needed, but I have no idea how much this would cost. Or. might be able to put a retractable plug in that is protected by the trunk lid. Another way, install another fuel door on the driver's side. I don't know if the LS fuel door can be flipped around, but if it can then cutting one from a wrecked one might be the solution.

Good luck with it, whatever you decide.
 
Just an idle curiosity - wouldn't adding a second set of batteries wired "separately" tend to cause a ground loop? Wouldn't the head unit be a common tie point?
I'd enjoy seeing a few hundred amps loop through a head unit, though.
 
Just an idle curiosity - wouldn't adding a second set of batteries wired "separately" tend to cause a ground loop? Wouldn't the head unit be a common tie point?
I'd enjoy seeing a few hundred amps loop through a head unit, though.

Not the way I see it. Yes, there has to be a common ground, but that doesn't cause any unwanted current loops if done correctly. I wouldn't make the head unit be the main tie point, or the only tie point. The important thing is for the +12V connections to be two separate groups. One group is the added battery, added alternator, head unit, and amps. The other group is everything else.
 
Not the way I see it. Yes, there has to be a common ground, but that doesn't cause any unwanted current loops if done correctly. I wouldn't make the head unit be the main tie point, or the only tie point. The important thing is for the +12V connections to be two separate groups. One group is the added battery, added alternator, head unit, and amps. The other group is everything else.

So both systems can use the body as a grounding point? I wouldn't think that would work without interfering with each other, but I don't know for certain.
 
So both systems can use the body as a grounding point? I wouldn't think that would work without interfering with each other, but I don't know for certain.
It's been done. There shouldn't be any interference.
 
Look into Maxwell ultracapacitors, they are expensive but are very, very powerful. I've seen a single bank of 6 3000F 2.7V ultracapacitors sustain a 4000W RMS system on stock electrical no problem.
 
Well after a few phone calls today I talked to a guy at Missing Link Audio. I was told that this piece was the solution and that the LS is not the only car that is restricted of voltage by the PCM and alternator.

He said this goes wired into the alternator wiring near the alternator, and that it works. The price he quoted was $189 but would discount to $149 if we had more people to order.

http://www.missinglinkaudio.com/id18.html
 
Well after a few phone calls today I talked to a guy at Missing Link Audio. I was told that this piece was the solution and that the LS is not the only car that is restricted of voltage by the PCM and alternator.

He said this goes wired into the alternator wiring near the alternator, and that it works. The price he quoted was $189 but would discount to $149 if we had more people to order.

http://www.missinglinkaudio.com/id18.html

Did he explain how it works? The link looks like he's selling a very expensive plug but it doesn't say anything about taking the computer out of alternator control. And, as I understand it, the 1st gen LS doesn't even have a regulator on it (at least not one in the conventional sense), the PCM regulates it.
 
From what I understand, the Computer get a signal that fools it into thinking that it is doing the factory job. But the charging is allowed to take place.

He said that LS owners have purchased before. Ill ask again on Monday.
 
From what I understand, the Computer get a signal that fools it into thinking that it is doing the factory job. But the charging is allowed to take place.

He said that LS owners have purchased before. Ill ask again on Monday.

Normally I don't like reading about anything that fools the computer because that usually has the end result of something blowing up about 6 months later. However, I don't see something blowing up as being a problem in this case. If this just takes the computer clean out of power control and keeps the computer happy while allowing the alternator to regulate power according to system needs, you really found a winner here for the Gen 1 boys.
 
From what I understand, the Computer get a signal that fools it into thinking that it is doing the factory job. But the charging is allowed to take place.

He said that LS owners have purchased before. Ill ask again on Monday.

find out more about this i have a gen 1 ls and would like to use this method you are going to use. what alternator will you use/
 

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