Going to be my last winter.

[lincoln_zero]

The Lincoln LS. The car that lives up to its reputation. Fun as hell to drive, especially with mods.
Bought Her in the spring of 2007. My 2002 LS has won many races, nudging out G37xs, STI, Acura TL; while completely owning Civics, Pontiac Grand Prix's, and Mitsubishi's 4 banger anything. For a car I paid 9 grand, 7 years ago, not bad.

But then there's the Reliability. And because this car is absolutely crap for reliability, I'm done with it. It just isn't awesome enough to keep up with. I mean, if it were a Dodge Charger SRT8, then totally fix and keep riding. But its not. Its an old Ford that without mods, gets spanked by just about every 3.5 V6 on the market.

In Seven years, What Failed on the vehicle (From daily driving) and was already replaced: (MY 2002 has 163,000 miles)
- Front Driver bearing
- Front Passenger bearing
- Front Driver [upper] Ball Joint
- Tie rod end
- 8 Coil packs
- Driver window motor
- Rear Driver window motor
- Co2 Sensor
- Alternator
- Clock Spring
- Front Passenger caliper
- Rear passenger caliper
- Windshield (Twice, Cracked from pressure. Fail Ford.)
- Serpentine belt


Here is a List of what Has failed, and needs replacing:
- Driver seat warmer
- Passenger seat warmer (failing)
- Wiper Fluid motor (failed today)
- Another Caliper (failed yesterday, leaking Break fluid)
- Defective ABS Module, Disables under Freezing temperature.
- Heating is defective. Needs 20 minutes to warm up to get SOME warm hair, partially defrosts due to this issue.
- Heated mirrors
- Rear view mirror compass


Other Issues worth mentioning:
- Advance traction disables when -10 Celsius outside. That's right, I'm in the middle of winter and its Snow and Ice on the roads, and I have no Traction control. Thank you Ford. From the bottom of my heart. Thank you. (I have to restart the vehicle when it warms to half way, MIGHT get back the Traction Control).
- Water leak through pillars. When it rains, it pours.
- Door seals are swollen/shrinking and no longer holding together.
- Constant vibration from rear tires. Feels like both bearings are warn (possible Differential failure?)
- Paint sucks
- in the 7 years, Always get steering vibrations on highways. Have done alignments, replaced tires a lot, replaced rims. Taken to mechanic. Unable to resolve the notorious 48 - 60mph highway vibrations LS owners get.
- Windshield builds ice on INSIDE of glass, thick layers of ice. Even when parked for 3 - 4 days.


Thats what I can think of atm. Not going to mention regular maintenance like oil change, Breaks, tires, spark plugs etc. All cars need those.

So, in light of this, I'm through. Not going to fix this thing anymore. Its been a fun ride, but in a short a while, she will hit the scraps.
The 2005 LS I own, has been good. 90,000 miles and all that's gone is Coil packs. owned it for 1 year, lets see how the "Second" Gen holds out.

Thanks for reading, hope you guys are having an awesome new year.

-Zero

 

[jrayelliott90]

I've got an 03 with 97000. Either previous owner took super good care or the second gen was defiantly better made. The only thing I need on mine is tires. Otherwise I'm firing on all 8. Response is great. And all the extra features work just fine. Good luck with your 05.

 

[eots44]

At least your going to another LS, it would be truly sad if you gave her up for some boring crap box.

 

[Upstairs Chris]

You listed quite a few wear items in the "what has failed" list. I would suggest getting a condo over in Realityville and staying a while. Its a 12 year old car with 163k. If you think a Charger, whether it be a V6 or ST8 isn't going to need a serpentine belt, all the bearings, all the tie rod ends, and a whole forum full of "unique" charger failure prone items in that same amount of time then maybe you should lease a corolla.

I am not trying to sound like a naysayer, but you have to keep your feet on the ground. Is the LS sub par in terms of reliability? Sure I'd say so. Is it keeping me from driving it? No.


From what I have read, there is a massive difference between 1st and 2nd gens. So good luck with the other one. I needed my coils, alternator, heater valve, and radiator replaced in my first 4 months of ownership. Used cars are cheap for a reason and you should expect some repairs right out of the gate. The car doesn't give a **** that you just got it, it has been used and the gotten rid of, and sitting on the lot waiting for sale doesn't help things either. I've replaced a massive list of suspension wear items last fall, including the ones you listed and a whole lot more. None of them "failed" but they were going too, soon. I do not deem a wear item a "failure" if they need replacing in a reasonable time frame. That's just car ownership. I'll be tackling the cooling system this spring and at that point, outside of keeping some coils in the trunk for good luck this LS won't be any worse off than anything else.

Outside of the coil packs, and cooling system not too many unacceptable failures are to be found. Sure you got the clockspring, and window regulators but those aren't world ending.


I will be selling mine soon, and that is because of the part supply issue and growing needs, not because of some reliability boogyman.

 

[lincoln_zero]

Maybe in 'Merica' Its acceptable to have 4 items fail in your first year, but this is why Toyota quickly surpassed GM in sales, and Japanese manufacturers are doing incredibly well. I know several people driving same era Japanese cars without having your idea of "Facts of life" happen to their cars. Its called reliability. Something Ford has improved on since its retched early 2000's days. Fortunately for Ford, they caught on to GM's and Chryslers mistakes, and Didn't need bankruptcy protection 11 OR to get bought by FIAT to stay in the game.

Since when was the $1100 ABS Module a regular replacement? Clock spring is also unacceptable.
Also about the "Massive difference" between first Gen and second, I already know that. Consumers reports was decent on second Gen LS's, most notably 05 and 06. The worst years of the LS were 03' and 00' and were plagued with failures. I know the 2005 will be a 'decent' car, and I got a steal of a price on it.

But I'm sorry, I must have higher standards, and don't want my car on Jack Stands every month of the only warm weather Canada gets of summer. But hey, I cant be totally hard on the car. My friend with the TL did show me Consumers Reports, and I did see all the black circles on the Lincoln (and every ford car) of that era, and I still bought it foolishly thinking consumers reports is paid off. Now I know better.

This doesn't mean I'm unforgiving. Chrysler is the worst of north America, and even they have major changes. I am keeping a watch on the 300c and Charger from 2011 and up (redesign). They aren't doing too bad in consumers reports.

But w/e Im not LS bashing. I suppose im rather implying Consumer Reports is actually worth looking into before buying a car. My lesson, don't listen to those around me saying "its paid off and all cars are the same".

 

[eots44]

I can agree about Chysler, I really have come to hate their products, I saw in consumer reports as well that they are the worst. I thought they might have gotten a bit better, but I don't know, I remember the hunks of junk they were putting out about 10 years ago. I've seen all to many Chyslers Dodges and Jeeps of that era completely fall apart with under 100K miles! It seemed as if even their "economy" cars quickly turned into money pits.

 

[Upstairs Chris]

So you are leasing a corolla. Carry on.


Toyota and GM have taken top sales from each other multiple times. Big whoop. Not even sure how we got to talking about GM vs Japanese everything sales, but since we are. All of the companies that vie for their market share like Honda, Kia, Hyundai, etc etc etc all compete for the same thing. The nicest, cheapest, most reliable vehicle they can make for people who simply require a mode of transportation. That is how all those companies got their start in America. If that's what you're after then have at it. That is their jam, that is their bread and butter, the Japanese equivalent to the domestic pickup market. A Camry will probably always be better than a malibu, and a civic will probably always be better than a spark. With that being said, neither of those are better than a new focus. Showing domestic manufactures can compete with the foreign standard. On the other hand the titan and tundra will most likely never surpass domestic pickups. Lets not even get started with a fun to drive factor. Toyota had to team up with Subaru just to crank out a FR-S.

I'd like to also point out that the LS is a really dumb car to have the America VS Japanese argument over because it is largely Jaguar based. There are hundreds of domestic cars out there that A) Don't need new ABS modules and B) If they do, they don't cost $1100.

 

[jrayelliott90]

I'd have to disagree with your "merica" speech. I had a 94 Pontiac Grand Am that was virtually bulletproof. I put that car through holy hell and back letting it sit all winter for it to fire right up no issues with a new battery. Never once did a single thing maintenence wise to the engine for 3 yrs. Then I sold it no problem. Also I just got rid of a 99 stratus that I would trust to drive across the country. Absolutely no issues. Sold it for 1500 when I got my Lincoln. Anyone can say anything about any car. And just think of half the common senseless drivers that make up those consumer reports.

 

[LS4me]

Consumers reports was decent on second Gen LS's, most notably 05 and 06. The worst years of the LS were 03' and 00' and were plagued with failures. I know the 2005 will be a 'decent' car, and I got a steal of a price on it.

My friend with the TL did show me Consumers Reports, and I did see all the black circles on the Lincoln (and every ford car) of that era, and I still bought it foolishly thinking consumers reports is paid off. Now I know better.

I suppose im rather implying Consumer Reports is actually worth looking into before buying a car. My lesson, don't listen to those around me saying "its paid off and all cars are the same".

Do you know where CR gets their results? They survey only subscribers. The subscriber fills out a survey (I know, I got them when I was stupid enough to subscribe) as to what their experience is with a certain product. If the owner thinks that needing shocks at 75K miles is unreasonable they fill in the unsatisfactory choice.

We bought CR's top rated TV about 15 years ago. Within a moth after the warranty expired it need a new power supply. A year later it was something else. Six months later it was something else again and we got a rid of that pile of junk. I swore of CR and did my own research from then on. CR claims to be unbiased but they have a clear agenda.

 

[RigsLS]

... I usually like a little brown sugar on top of my Peanut Butter and Banana sandwiches!





Hey lincoln_zero, let me know before you scrap that 02 LS ...
I think I'm somewhat close to you, might be worth a flatbed haul. (still stockpiling LS parts to date)

 

[Rojasnyc]

The Lincoln LS. The car that lives up to its reputation. Fun as hell to drive, especially with mods.
Bought Her in the spring of 2007. My 2002 LS has won many races, nudging out G37xs, STI, Acura TL; while completely owning Civics, Pontiac Grand Prix's, and Mitsubishi's 4 banger anything. For a car I paid 9 grand, 7 years ago, not bad.

But then there's the Reliability. And because this car is absolutely crap for reliability, I'm done with it. It just isn't awesome enough to keep up with. I mean, if it were a Dodge Charger SRT8, then totally fix and keep riding. But its not. Its an old Ford that without mods, gets spanked by just about every 3.5 V6 on the market.

In Seven years, What Failed on the vehicle (From daily driving) and was already replaced: (MY 2002 has 163,000 miles)
- Front Driver bearing
- Front Passenger bearing
- Front Driver [upper] Ball Joint
- Tie rod end
- 8 Coil packs
- Driver window motor
- Rear Driver window motor
- Co2 Sensor
- Alternator
- Clock Spring
- Front Passenger caliper
- Rear passenger caliper
- Windshield (Twice, Cracked from pressure. Fail Ford.)
- Serpentine belt


Here is a List of what Has failed, and needs replacing:
- Driver seat warmer
- Passenger seat warmer (failing)
- Wiper Fluid motor (failed today)
- Another Caliper (failed yesterday, leaking Break fluid)
- Defective ABS Module, Disables under Freezing temperature.
- Heating is defective. Needs 20 minutes to warm up to get SOME warm hair, partially defrosts due to this issue.
- Heated mirrors
- Rear view mirror compass


Other Issues worth mentioning:
- Advance traction disables when -10 Celsius outside. That's right, I'm in the middle of winter and its Snow and Ice on the roads, and I have no Traction control. Thank you Ford. From the bottom of my heart. Thank you. (I have to restart the vehicle when it warms to half way, MIGHT get back the Traction Control).
- Water leak through pillars. When it rains, it pours.
- Door seals are swollen/shrinking and no longer holding together.
- Constant vibration from rear tires. Feels like both bearings are warn (possible Differential failure?)
- Paint sucks
- in the 7 years, Always get steering vibrations on highways. Have done alignments, replaced tires a lot, replaced rims. Taken to mechanic. Unable to resolve the notorious 48 - 60mph highway vibrations LS owners get.
- Windshield builds ice on INSIDE of glass, thick layers of ice. Even when parked for 3 - 4 days.


Thats what I can think of atm. Not going to mention regular maintenance like oil change, Breaks, tires, spark plugs etc. All cars need those.

So, in light of this, I'm through. Not going to fix this thing anymore. Its been a fun ride, but in a short a while, she will hit the scraps.
The 2005 LS I own, has been good. 90,000 miles and all that's gone is Coil packs. owned it for 1 year, lets see how the "Second" Gen holds out.

Thanks for reading, hope you guys are having an awesome new year.

-Zero

I can't believe that this list is all that you are complaining about..lmao. My 00 has 197+ plus on the dash and hasn't seen half of those issues...tensioners still tensioning..no window problems..either you or another owner must have dogged this LS out..if you sit outside in the elements for 10 years what kind of shape would you be in..lol. I'm so glad I haven't seen many of the issues I've read on here..maintenance is everything..

 

[G-RELL]

Troll King strikes again!!! Dont waste your time....

 

[eots44]

Now those Japanese cars aren't perfect themselves, my buddy picked up a 2009 Honda Accord the base model with the 4 cylinder back in March, and since than he has put more money into it than I have my 200,000 mile 10 year old CTS in the past 4 years. He had to have extensive brake work done twice, and one day it refused to start, mind you it was like 70 degrees and sunny. He is an older gentleman about 75 and bought it thinking it would be his last car, the car he traded was a 2001 Buick Park Avenue with one of the best engines ever made, the 3800 series. It only had like 100,000 miles and he only got rid of it because he was afraid of having problems with it later and not being able to afford it. I told him to just keep it, not because I thought the Accord was a bad car, but because I knew it could go at least another 200,000 miles. After signing up to this site I've come to see that the LS isn't the most reliable car, but I don't think it's fair to assume all American cars and all Lincolns are the same, you have to remember the LS was a step away from what Lincoln knew, and the LS was really a mixture of mostly Jaguar parts and ideas. You take a car Lincoln is well regarded for such as the Town Car and you see that they are some of the most reliable cars ever made, most including the other Panther cars have been known to make it to nearly 500,000 miles, that's why they are so popular with fleet sales, because they last forever, can take a beating, and love to be driven hard. The same can be said about the Northstars, yes in the 90's they had their issues, but they last forever and love to be driven hard, most of the time people experience issues because they didn't drive them, General Motors designed the engine to last long. I saw a 97 Deville with the Northstar that has 309,000 miles for sale, and it isn't finished, it still runs and drivers. I guess you can call me a home teamer, but I've only owned American Cars (GM in particular) and don't plan on switching, I've owned cars from almost every era and have had nothing but luck with my cars.

 

[Ranchero50]

Troll King strikes again!!! Dont waste your time....

Ditto, he should probably sell his other car and just ride the bus (short bus that is)...

 

[pektel]

The Advancetrac failing under freezing temperatures annoys the sh*t out of me. Happens to my LS whenever it's below zero. And during those times, the road conditions certainly arent the best for that system to be disabled. In fact just a couple weeks ago, I spun out of control in the middle of town, across 3 lanes of traffic, but miraculously escaped unscathed.

 

[LS4me]

The Advancetrac failing under freezing temperatures annoys the sh*t out of me. Happens to my LS whenever it's below zero. And during those times, the road conditions certainly arent the best for that system to be disabled. In fact just a couple weeks ago, I spun out of control in the middle of town, across 3 lanes of traffic, but miraculously escaped unscathed.

Could it be failing because the wheel sensors are covered in too much ice? The LS did it's cold weather testing in Yellowknife so just cold shouldn't be an issue.

 

[RJLipscomb]

The Lincoln LS. The car that lives up to its reputation. Fun as hell to drive, especially with mods.
Bought Her in the spring of 2007. My 2002 LS has won many races, nudging out G37xs, STI, Acura TL; while completely owning Civics, Pontiac Grand Prix's, and Mitsubishi's 4 banger anything. For a car I paid 9 grand, 7 years ago, not bad.
...
-Zero

Could it possibly be the way you drive?

 

[pektel]

Could it be failing because the wheel sensors are covered in too much ice? The LS did it's cold weather testing in Yellowknife so just cold shouldn't be an issue.

Oh, it definitely could be. I brought it in to the dealer last winter for them to diagnose. Couldn't find anything wrong. I even went along on a ride with the tech so I could watch the laptop screen while it datalogged the wheel sensors. We didnt see anything suspect. BUT, they had also had it inside their heated shop overnight. And, the "check advancetrac" wasn't illuminated, so it must've been working properly at the time I went on the ride-along. He said it could be condensation/moisture at one of the contact points elsewhere and shorting out the signal, but without paying those labor rates, I wasn't going to find out.

 

[jjcool00]

I never understand these threads. Where is the logic in telling the forum that you're getting rid of your car. Do people think other people here will be like "No please don't get rid of it?" And if so, would that actually dissuade you from selling it? If you want to get rid of your car, do what you gotta do. No need to rant about it in a forum post. I could understand if you create a post that is beneficial and offer your car for sale to members, or parts, but just to rant is mindless.

 

[Upstairs Chris]

Oh, it definitely could be. I brought it in to the dealer last winter for them to diagnose. Couldn't find anything wrong. I even went along on a ride with the tech so I could watch the laptop screen while it datalogged the wheel sensors. We didnt see anything suspect. BUT, they had also had it inside their heated shop overnight. And, the "check advancetrac" wasn't illuminated, so it must've been working properly at the time I went on the ride-along. He said it could be condensation/moisture at one of the contact points elsewhere and shorting out the signal, but without paying those labor rates, I wasn't going to find out.

My work car, a chevy impala does this.

On frigid, snowy mornings it says the ABS doesn't work. Throw it in a garage for a bit and its fine.

 

[RigsLS]

I do think the OP is clearly indicating he's fed up with his GEN I and currently enjoying is GEN II more at this particular time.
He's modded both side by side for some time now ... He also states clearly he's had his fair share of upkeeps and repairs.
But yeah, let's call him a TROLL ... such great contributions that would be ... nonetheless, hate to see others with
LS frustrations but facts are facts, we've all bitched and moaned here and there when we've have to attend to the
Open-Wallet-Light on the dash. Can't have cake everyday, our LS'es are past the 10yr mark, deal with it!!!





* speaking of "cake" & "past 10yr mark"


PRODUCTION BUILD: 01 LS V8 Sport, WIXOM PLANT: January 31, 2001

. . . Mine turns 13 this Friday

 

[lincoln_zero]

... I usually like a little brown sugar on top of my Peanut Butter and Banana sandwiches!





Hey lincoln_zero, let me know before you scrap that 02 LS ...
I think I'm somewhat close to you, might be worth a flatbed haul. (still stockpiling LS parts to date)

When I decide the LS is done, you will be the first to have what ya want.

The only thing I will prolly keep is my Xcal, so i can tune the 05.

 

[lincoln_zero]

Troll King strikes again!!! Dont waste your time....

Not Trolling, just displaying what I went through with fellow owners. Not my fault you have the slowest LS, and biggest ego.

Could it be failing because the wheel sensors are covered in too much ice? The LS did it's cold weather testing in Yellowknife so just cold shouldn't be an issue.

It Fails when its cold, period. No snow or ice. Also, I took it to Ford, ABS module is fried. They quoted $1100 for part.

Not even sure how we got to talking about GM vs Japanese everything sales,

Nope, this is about consumers reports. And Theres no way to prove its biased. Its not like people who subscribe and own Toyota's are faking reports on domestics. Its legit. I foolishly ignored those reports, I blame myself, not the car.

I do think the OP is clearly indicating he's fed up with his GEN I and currently enjoying is GEN II more at this particular time.
He's modded both side by side for some time now ... He also states clearly he's had his fair share of upkeeps and repairs.
But yeah, let's call him a TROLL ... such great contributions that would be ... nonetheless, hate to see others with
LS frustrations but facts are facts, we've all bitched and moaned here and there when we've have to attend to the
Open-Wallet-Light on the dash. Can't have cake everyday, our LS'es are past the 10yr mark, deal with it!!!

Pretty much. I just dont care anymore about it to fix it. Its worth every result the CP gave it.
And yes, the '05 LS is behaving. No ABS failure, Heat failure, or Degauss Bottle failure. However when I did get it, the AC lines had air in them so i have no AC. Will be the first Fix this summer for it.

Thanks for reading everyone, I respect all your opinions (even G-rell with the slow LS).

Later.