I think not. Lincoln, a once great premium luxury division of Ford Motor Company, has gone decidedly down market in the past decade or so. With the demise of the Mark series and the LS, Lincoln has been left with nothing but inferior, badge-engineered FWD pseudo-luxury vehicles with which to compete with the likes of Cadillac and other brands from Europe and Japan. Cadillac, on the other hand, has moved way upmarket with very upscale RWD offerings like the CTS, CTS-V, STS, and STS-V. There are even coupe and wagon versions of the CTS. The "V" series CTS has a 550hp supercharged V-8 with a 6-speed manual. Nothing from Lincoln can even touch that. Lincoln's closest competitor to the CTS is the MKZ. To even assume the MKZ could come close to going up against the CTS is laughable. Lincoln's closest competitor to the STS is the MKS. It does have an optional EcoBoost V-6 with 355hp, but the inferior FWD platform (yes, I know it has AWD, but it is front-biased with a sideways engine) is nowhere near as competent and sophisticated as the Zeta RWD platform upon which the STS is based. I won't even compare anything from Lincoln with anything from Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, or any other premium European or Japanese brand. Because Lincoln can't compete with them. As of now, Lincoln is playing in Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Volkswagen's sandbox. I'm a Lincoln man. Always have been. But I am very disappointed in my favorite brand at this time. Lincoln's showing in the luxury car field is pathetic. Lincoln can't even compete with Hyundai now! The RWD V-8 powered Genesis and Equus outclass everything from Lincoln. And that is pitiful. Hyundai for God's sake!!! The morons running Lincoln should be ashamed. Lincoln is not the company it used to be. No longer is Lincoln a force to be rekoned with in the premium luxury arena. Lincoln is now just another car to get you from point A to point B. Nothing more. And that makes me very sad.

Opinions?

A long time ago on LOD, a member said this of Lincoln:

Lincoln = Ford in lipstick and heels.

I somewhat agree and actually prefer Ford's current offerings to those of Lincoln.

Although dated, the modern Town Car is still my favorite of the recent Lincolns.

A long time ago on LOD, a member said this of Lincoln:

Lincoln = Ford in lipstick and heels.

I somewhat agree and actually prefer Ford's current offerings to those of Lincoln.

Although dated, the modern Town Car is still my favorite of the recent Lincolns.

I have to agree. I love the Town Car. I've had several of them. But by today's standards, it's an overpriced, underpowered dinosaur. But I still love it, simply because it's still Lincoln's only real RWD luxury car. Unfortunately, it has only a short time to live. When it's gone, Lincoln's only RWD vehicle will be the Navigator. And as great as the Nav is, it's having a hard time competing with the Escalade. Although the Navi has a more sophisticated chassis and suspension, the Caddy is arguably better looking and more powerful (by a lot) and much faster than the Navi. Anyway, Lincoln is indeed nothing more than a badge engineered Ford now. The MKZ is just a slightly modified Fusion (which in turn is a rebodied Mazda6) and the MKS is a rebodied Taurus (which is a rebodied Volvo). The MKX is a Ford Edge with a lincoln grille and tail lights. And the MKT is a rebodied Flex. It's horrible. Lincoln is in pitiful shape now. I hate it, but they may follow Mercury to FWD obscurity in the not to distant future. Then it'll just be Ford. :(

Wow. Nobody comes to the MKS forum:lol:

Must be a great car:p

Do you actually own an MKS, if you did I dont think you would make these unfair observations.

Do you actually own an MKS, if you did I dont think you would make these unfair observations.

Nope. I don't. And I never will. I can't afford one. And even if I could, I wouldn't buy it. It's wrong-wheel-drive with a sideways engine. I have never and will never own a wrong-wheel-drive car. And as I stated several times, the overall proportions are too FWD looking. I prefer a real RWD automobile. Some of my observations may be subjective, but most aren't unfair. They're factual.

Fact: The majority of the premium luxury cars the MKS is attempting to compete with are Rear-Wheel-Drive with V-8 engines.

Fact: According to market trends, people who can afford premium luxury vehicles prefer RWD and V-8 engines. That's why you'll never see a FWD BMW, Jaguar, or Mercedes.

Fact: The MKS is FWD with a sideways engine.

Fact: FWD vehicles like the MKS are nose heavy, understeer badly, and torque steer heavily (especially if they have more that about 225hp going to the front wheels).

Fact: The MKS has an optional part-time AWD system that is primarily FWD under all but the most severe driving conditions.

Fact: The Cadillac STS (the MKS's closest domestic competitor) is RWD/AWD, has an available V-8, and competes in the higher end territory of Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus.

Fact: The MKS has classic FWD proportions that do not fit with the types of vehicles it is supposed to be competing with.

Fact: The MKS is based upon the Taurus platform, which is a modified version of the old Volvo S80 platform.

The car itself may be a fine automobile. And that's wonderful. It simply doesn't belong in the same league as RWD premium luxury sedans like the Cadillac CTS/STS, Lexus LS460, or any BMW or Mercedes. Lincoln has gone down market with their current offerings of FWD V-6 cars that are more on par with Honda and Toyota than true premium luxury sedans.

Most people who drive luxury cars cannot maximize the handling capabilities of rear drive V8s, especially in Canada. The MKS ecoboost has 355hp and is AWD. Its not about speed and pylons, its about comfort and safety (and in my case the sound system). If you want something sportier buy a real sports car or spend another $40,000.

Sorry thaywood but I would have to disagree. Your major complaint about the car is about it being a FWD and not being a V8. I haven't driven the MKS, so I can't comment on how bad the torque steer is. Can't imagine it as bad as the Continental though.

The Ecoboost V6 offers plenty of power and with a tune, can beat many of the V8s. It would be nice to have a V8 but the V6 offers as much power as the V8s.

Also, no other car in its class can offer as much space in its class. Cadillac on the other hand has gotten so small and the interior of the STS isn't anything to write about. Cadillac overall has lost all the appeal it once had by trying to copy BMW. It doesn't have the "American luxury" feel to it anymore. BTW the V8 isn't offered on the STS anymore, just a V6 now.

Now with the BMW (5 series) and MB (E-class). Again, too small and not enough trunk space. The Lexus LS 460 isn't even in the same league, it is about 10-15 grand more then the MKS.

MKS is an amazing car for people who want to move up to a newer vehicle that is similar to the Town Car like our family or families who like to travel. It offers as much space as the Town Car but with all the luxury amenities as BMW, MB, and Lexus.

Having a Taurus based platform is not a bad think. It is cheaper on repairs later on just like how the Town Car can use parts from the Vic's.

Sorry thaywood but I would have to disagree. Your major complaint about the car is about it being a FWD and not being a V8. I haven't driven the MKS, so I can't comment on how bad the torque steer is. Can't imagine it as bad as the Continental though.

The wrong-wheel-drive issue isn't the only one, but it's the major problem. When comparing the MKS and any other Lincoln vehicle (except the Town Car) to other "premium" luxury cars, it is not in the same clas. Most other premium luxury cars today are RWD. Even Hyundai for crap sake has a RWD, V-8 powered luxury sedan!!! According to market trends, people who can afford the exuberent prices of premium luxury sedans prefer RWD. That's why RWD is making a major comeback and why you'll never see a FWD BMW, Mercedes, or Jaguar, among others.

The Ecoboost V6 offers plenty of power and with a tune, can beat many of the V8s. It would be nice to have a V8 but the V6 offers as much power as the V8s.

Then why not just put a V-8 in it? Just think what an Ecoboost V-8 could do!

Also, no other car in its class can offer as much space in its class. Cadillac on the other hand has gotten so small and the interior of the STS isn't anything to write about. Cadillac overall has lost all the appeal it once had by trying to copy BMW. It doesn't have the "American luxury" feel to it anymore.

That may be true. I haven't done much extensive research into the car. But what I can see is the goofy FWD proportions of the MKS compared to the elegant and balanced proportions of the other RWD sedans in the premium luxury class. That's another area where the MKS sorely lacks. But I must disagree about the Cadillac. It's a damn nice car, inside and out, in my opinion. If I could afford one, I'd take it over anything from Lincoln.

BTW the V8 isn't offered on the STS anymore, just a V6 now.

Not true: http://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/sts/2010/

The Northstar is still available. Apparently, no more "V" series though. Bummer.

Now with the BMW (5 series) and MB (E-class). Again, too small and not enough trunk space. The Lexus LS 460 isn't even in the same league, it is about 10-15 grand more then the MKS.

Not necessarily. It may be too small for you, or others. But I could do just fine with a Bimmer or a Merc. If I could afford one, that is.

MKS is an amazing car for people who want to move up to a newer vehicle that is similar to the Town Car like our family or families who like to travel. It offers as much space as the Town Car but with all the luxury amenities as BMW, MB, and Lexus.

The MKS is not similar to the Town Car:confused: It's wrong-wheel-drive with a sideways mounted engine and unibody. It's not even close to being as big and fluffy as a Town Car. And did I mention it was FWD with a sideways engine??? I'd take a Town Car any day over this thing. But that's just me.

Having a Taurus based platform is not a bad think. It is cheaper on repairs later on just like how the Town Car can use parts from the Vic's.

It's not a bad thing for an "entry level" luxury car. But not good for a car claiming to be a "premium" luxury sedan. Some folks, if they were actually aware of it, would balk at paying that kind of money for what is essentially a Taurus in a suit and tie.

Now that they killed Mercury, additional resources will be going to Lincoln. I have heard will start to see some pretty impressive Lincolns in 2-3 years.

Until then I'll stick with my mark viii :)

Now that they killed Mercury, additional resources will be going to Lincoln. I have heard will start to see some pretty impressive Lincolns in 2-3 years.

I hate that Mercury's gone. But Ford had let the division stagnate and languish as nothing more than badge-engineered Fords for decades...wait...that's what Lincoln is now!!!:eek:

But if I don't see at least one modern Rear-Drive car in the lineup that can actually compete with other luxury cars in their price class, I won't be impressed with whatever they offer.

Until then I'll stick with my mark viii :)

Same here. :)

No activity since Jan. 4th. Wow. Folks love the MKS! LMFAO!!!

Hmm. Okay, I'll play.

I had my Navi in the dealer's service department a little while ago, which left me with some time to waste. The MKS is a decent package, as is the MKT. I actually would consider the MKT, but for that silly V6. On the other hand, driving 30,000ish miles per year, the fuel economy of the Navi leaves something to be desired. I really don't need a 3 ton SUV.

I did drive one of the MKTs. The MKS is nice, but I need a bit more space for our weekends at the shore and on the boat, and also to pull the PWC. The ride and drive isn't too bad. I only did a short loop because it was still the morning rush. I'd like to drive the MKT some more. That said, it's an entirely different car than my old 90 Town Car, 94, 96, and 98 Mark VIII (still have the 98) or my 99 Navigator.

Someone mentioned parts. A friend is a Porsche Tech and works next to the dealer's Audi shop. A 4 wheel brake job on the Cayenne or the Q7 is somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty-five hundred. My wife has a 2007 Jaguar Vanden Plas that we leased and since my wife liked it so much, we bought it after the lease ended. Front brake pads for that car are about $250-300 for OEM pads not from the dealer. Front rotors are about $300 a pair. The 50,000 mile service was... I forget... just under 2 grand? I bought premium Centric pads, hoses, and rotors for the Navi's front axle a month ago for under $300.

While the Jag is only about 20 grand more than the Lincoln, but when you consider TCO, it's a lot bigger step than that. On the other hand, the Vanden Plas is an entirely aluminum body and frame, it's incredibly strong but light. She has great crash ratings from IIHS and she turns about 17 mpg around town. I've gotten 28 mpg on the highway (NJ to SC & back) at 80 and 31 @ 70 (NJ to MD & back,) not terrible for a 300 hp 4.2 liter V8 in a room 4 door.

The new cars from Lincoln are different, that's for certain. Not sure which way I'll jump next. Maybe just do a wait and see until the Navigator dies. It's around 340,000 miles, but still running well. We'll see...

Eh... The Mark VIII section doesn't lie when it says.
Lincoln Mark VIII
Talk about the Lincoln Mark VIII - the last REAL Lincoln performance vehicle.

The new eco boost models do have a decent amount of power, but that doesn't really make them a performance luxury car. The FWD has got to go or they're basically just another family hauler with some power when you stomp the pedal. Take a Taurus Sho and throw a ton of gadgets in it and you get the new Lincolns.

As much as the mark VIII guys may not like it the last performance lincoln was the ls.

From 2007 and on everything else is ecoboost fwd crap.

As much as the mark VIII guys may not like it the last performance lincoln was the ls.

Well....sorta...

The LS wasn't really as performance oriented as the Mark was. The only real advantage the LS has over the Mark is the extra set of doors and the slightly better suspension. I have to say the LS I drove a looooong time ago handled great. Much better than my Mark VIII. However, the LS didn't match the Mark's power until it was almost dead. And even then, it didn't have as much as an LSC. So in terms of pure power and performance in a 2-door luxury performance coupe, the Mark VIII was Lincoln's last performance car. The LS was more of a sports sedan, not so much built for high performance.

From 2007 and on everything else is ecoboost fwd crap.

I totally agree with this. Lincoln has sunk about as far down market as any former "Premium" luxury automaker can and still be taken reasonably seriously.

The wrong-wheel-drive issue isn't the only one, but it's the major problem. When comparing the MKS and any other Lincoln vehicle (except the Town Car) to other "premium" luxury cars, it is not in the same clas. Most other premium luxury cars today are RWD. Even Hyundai for crap sake has a RWD, V-8 powered luxury sedan!!! According to market trends, people who can afford the exuberent prices of premium luxury sedans prefer RWD. That's why RWD is making a major comeback and why you'll never see a FWD BMW, Mercedes, or Jaguar, among others.
I don't think I stated that but I would never go for the FWD car. If I were to suggest a car to my dad, it would be the Ecoboost AWD one.


Then why not just put a V-8 in it? Just think what an Ecoboost V-8 could do!

Because people think V8 automatically means it would take more gas than a V6 would.

That may be true. I haven't done much extensive research into the car. But what I can see is the goofy FWD proportions of the MKS compared to the elegant and balanced proportions of the other RWD sedans in the premium luxury class. That's another area where the MKS sorely lacks. But I must disagree about the Cadillac. It's a damn nice car, inside and out, in my opinion. If I could afford one, I'd take it over anything from Lincoln.

Sorry but the STS is lacking many features that a luxury car should have in it's price range. Also, I just don't like the "flat" look the STS has.



The Northstar is still available. Apparently, no more "V" series though. Bummer.
Look at a 2011 STS, it is ONLY offered with a V6.


The MKS is not similar to the Town Car:confused: It's wrong-wheel-drive with a sideways mounted engine and unibody. It's not even close to being as big and fluffy as a Town Car. And did I mention it was FWD with a sideways engine??? I'd take a Town Car any day over this thing. But that's just me.

And what other car in its price range has as much space? (interior and trunk) Unless you give more $$$ to move up to the LS460. The MKS is the closest to the TC in terms of what it offers in space, price and luxury options that cars have today.

It's not a bad thing for an "entry level" luxury car. But not good for a car claiming to be a "premium" luxury sedan. Some folks, if they were actually aware of it, would balk at paying that kind of money for what is essentially a Taurus in a suit and tie.
It's not a big deal for me. As for my dad, he would look for the status symbol even though IMO, Ford Taurus is a much better car.

I don't think I stated that but I would never go for the FWD car. If I were to suggest a car to my dad, it would be the Ecoboost AWD one.

You do realize that even with the part-time AWD system, the MKS is still a sideways engined FWD car 99% of the time, right?

Because people think V8 automatically means it would take more gas than a V6 would.

And it probably would. But if you can afford the price of one of these, gas cost probably isn't a problem.

Sorry but the STS is lacking many features that a luxury car should have in it's price range. Also, I just don't like the "flat" look the STS has.

Like what? It looks pretty well equipped to me. But that's my opinion. I'm easy to please.

Look at a 2011 STS, it is ONLY offered with a V6.

I did. According to Cadillac, you can still get the 320hp 4.6L DOHC Northstar V-8. There's just no "V" series anymore. The CTS, however, is only offered with the V-6 unless you opt for the "V" series with the 556hp 6.2L supercharged V-8.

Edit: Ya know what, you're right. I was mistaken. I was looking at the 2010 specs. It appears that GM has indeed yanked the V-8 from the STS for 2011. And that sucks donkey yarbles. Well, at least it's still REAR-WHEEL-DRIVE.

And what other car in its price range has as much space? (interior and trunk) Unless you give more $$$ to move up to the LS460. The MKS is the closest to the TC in terms of what it offers in space, price and luxury options that cars have today.

But that's it. The Town Car, in my opinion, is a better car. It's RWD with a real V-8 and a chassis under it. Unfortunately, it is underpowered and still has the pre-historic log axle out back. But that's okay with me. I love Town Cars. I've owned several of them. I would rather have that dinosaur than that FWD MKS or any other "modern" Lincoln.

It's not a big deal for me. As for my dad, he would look for the status symbol even though IMO, Ford Taurus is a much better car.

For me, it is a big deal. Even if I could afford it, I couldn't justify the premium price for what is essentially a Taurus in a silk suit.

Even if I could afford it, I couldn't justify the premium price for what is essentially a Taurus in a silk suit.

Heck, if I had that kinda' money hanging around, I'd rather just buy a used premium brand car like a BMW Alpina B7/Mercedes-Benz S-Class/Audi A8. At least that way, somebody else has already taken the huge depreciation hit.

You do realize that even with the part-time AWD system, the MKS is still a sideways engined FWD car 99% of the time, right?
Yes but in normal driving I don't think it will matter which wheels are spinning. As long as it doesn't have torque steer off the line, its all fine by me. Obvious if you are going to drive it around the track or do spirited driving, you will notice it. But then again that is not what the MKS is made for.

And it probably would. But if you can afford the price of one of these, gas cost probably isn't a problem.

Ehh...I guess.

Like what? It looks pretty well equipped to me. But that's my opinion. I'm easy to please.

MKS has a collision warning system, adaptive headlights, kepad, rear-view camera, rear power sunshade, and the automatic parallel parking thing:rolleyes:(it's still nice to have)

STS has heads-up display, heated steering wheel, manual side shades and that is it I think.

MKS definitely has the edge on features. Also IMO it has a better navi/media center.

Thaywood makes a lot of good points. Most importantly is the fact that FWD is wrong wheel drive. Also, the Mark VIII was the last performance lincoln. However, I expect an offering from Lincoln sometime in the near future to compete with the CTSV coupe. RWD and High HP. The current lincolns are simply crossbred fords/mazda/volvo aboniations with some fluff attached.



BTW Chrysler (when married up with daimler) nailed it back in 2005+ in the RWD catagory (Yes the 300C and 300SRT8 are luxury cars albiet not coupes). I have had many and you simply cant beat them.

Thanks.

I'm glad I"m not the only one who doesn't care for FWD. The way I see it, FWD is fine for cheapo Korean econoboxes, but not for real cars. Cars like Lincolns should be RWD simply because they are "upper crust" luxury automobiles...at least they used to be. You'll never see FWD Mercedes or BMW. Some Audi's are FWD, but the higher-end models are AWD with a rear-bias. All Jaguars are RWD. The only FWD Lexus's are the Camry-In-A-Tuxedo ES-3XX and the RX3XX CUV. All the rest are RWD. All Infiniti's are RWD. The DTS and SRX are the only FWD Caddillacs. The bottom line is that if a company is going to build premium luxury cars to compete in the higher-priced market, the cars need to be RWD like their competition. Lincoln will never be in the same class as any of the above brands as long as they keep building overpriced, gussied-up Tauruses and Fusions.

I'm glad I"m not the only one who doesn't care for FWD. The way I see it, FWD is fine for cheapo Korean econoboxes, but not for real cars. Cars like Lincolns should be RWD simply because they are "upper crust" luxury automobiles...at least they used to be. You'll never see FWD Mercedes or BMW. Some Audi's are FWD, but the higher-end models are AWD with a rear-bias. All Jaguars are RWD. The only FWD Lexus's are the Camry-In-A-Tuxedo ES-3XX and the RX3XX CUV. All the rest are RWD. All Infiniti's are RWD. The DTS and SRX are the only FWD Caddillacs. The bottom line is that if a company is going to build premium luxury cars to compete in the higher-priced market, the cars need to be RWD like their competition. Lincoln will never be in the same class as any of the above brands as long as they keep building overpriced, gussied-up Tauruses and Fusions.

So let's just forget about Canada and pretend this market doesn't exist. There are other countries in the world besides the good ole USA.

So let's just forget about Canada and pretend this market doesn't exist. There are other countries in the world besides the good ole USA.

Very true. And in every one of those countries, Jaguar, Mercedes, BMW, Infiniti, Cadillac, Lexus, and Audi sell RWD premium luxury cars. Lincoln? Not so much.

Ill chime in here.
I leased an MKS Ecoboost appearance package october 5th. I sold my Lincoln LS 05 and used some of the money for a down payment. I've posted pics here before.

The Bad:
Torque steer. Better hold on to that wheel. Not all the time, but sometimes when flooring it it swings wildly to one side. It almost slipped out of my hand one time. ON AN AWD CAR..HOW THE HECK DO YOU HAVE TORQUE STEER ON AN AWD?

The car dives on sharper stops. Cannot touch the handling of the LS. The handling isn't bad, but according to Ford, the ecoboost package has an updated sport suspension. Yeah right. ride is tight and comfortable, but handling isnt anything to brag about in the european luxury circle of friends. Again, not bad, and not a big deal, but not performance oriented. Definitely more on the comfortable side.

Fuel Economy. Forget the ecoboost hype. Downright tragic fuel economy. in the city in stop and go, I am lucky to keep it anywhere above 10. NYC driving with AC blowing? better be lucky to get above 8 mpg.
Already had an oil change and the tech said it has broken it already. MPG went up about 1 mpg across the board.
30 mph cruise with some red lights, I barely hit 15 16.
On the highway, I can get some amazing mileage. I've hit 30.5 on a 58 mph cruise with no climate on.

Build Quality.
This falls in the good and the bad. Where it is good, it is amazing. But wherever you can't see, but at some point will touch and notice, it reeks of cost cutting. lower part of door panels, a few gaps (specifically the lit up plate on the bottom of the door sill).

Transmission
My transmission went out last sunday. Had it towed to the dealer to get it fixed. She doesn't drive quite the same and you can feel the shift sometimes.
Replaced a few things in the tranny. (dont have the work order in front of me)
It would slam into gear violently and not shift past 3rd.

The good:
entertainment
Sync, navi with traffic, sound system, all incredible. I love it. Bluetooth phone always connects automatically, loud and clear, I can watch DVD's, stream bluetooth video, and it the traffic update saved me from a HUGE traffic jam. Voice recognition is downright amazing. Understands everything, unlike the joke that the LS navi had. My friends went from making jokes about the voice activated Navi to being downright impressed with the Sync system.


Looks
Nobody except one other person i know has the appearance package. Blacked out headlights, monochrome paint, 20 inch chrome wheels. Complements all the time.
People ask me what the car is, and are amazed at how sexy it looks.

Performance
Here we go. This is what counts. The car pulls like a bat out of hell. I'm amazed at how quickly it gets out of its own way, for the large behemoth that it is. I had the 3.7 litre v6 fwd as a rental while the tranny was out, and I couldn't really complain for what it was. The ecoboost is a different animal. Much faster than my Lincoln LS. Gets up to speed very fast and you don't feel how fast it is moving.

other comments
No exhaust note. But it is a lincoln after all.
One speaker has started rattling on and off. Not terrible, and only if you pay attention.
USB input and mp3 line in is nice. Ambient lighting is great. One of the things I enjoy about the car.

Overall, I like the car. I took it on a trip, 4 hours of driving, and it was comfortable and relaxing. The ride was soft, traffic was always updated, and the adaptive cruise did all the work. 25-28 mpg depending on cruise speed.
And that is where the MKS does it's job best. Long trips, cruising in comfort, using all the entertainment options. Lots of legroom and trunk room. The brown optional leather is very soft and comfortable.

Gas mileage (particularly on something called...Ecoboost), is embarrasing, and the transmission failure is a joke. I like the MKS, just not MY mks.
I want my LS back, or an MKS that works normally.

NOTICE THE GAP IN THE FIRST PICTURE>>>on the sides of the lighted sill plate.!!!

Torque steer. Better hold on to that wheel. Not all the time, but sometimes when flooring it it swings wildly to one side. It almost slipped out of my hand one time. ON AN AWD CAR..HOW THE HECK DO YOU HAVE TORQUE STEER ON AN AWD?



Now that is a deal breaker:(

The transmission going out:eek: is really a bumper. Did they say why it went out? It's sounding more and more like the Continental with torque steer and a weak transmission that should belong on a lesser HP engine.

The Bad:
Torque steer. Better hold on to that wheel. Not all the time, but sometimes when flooring it it swings wildly to one side. It almost slipped out of my hand one time. ON AN AWD CAR..HOW THE HECK DO YOU HAVE TORQUE STEER ON AN AWD?


The reason for the torque steer even though it is AWD is because it is a "part-time" AWD system. 99% of the time, the car is FWD. The rears only engage when the computer senses front wheel slip. Under all but the most severe driving conditions, you are driving a FWD car. If it were a full-time AWD system, like Audi, Subaru, Acura, or any other typical rear-biased AWD vehicle (yes, the Acura SH-AWD system is rear-biased), there would be no torque steer. Such is the tragedy of a powerful engine in a wrong-wheel-drive car.

The reason for the torque steer even though it is AWD is because it is a "part-time" AWD system. 99% of the time, the car is FWD. The rears only engage when the computer senses front wheel slip. Under all but the most severe driving conditions, you are driving a FWD car. If it were a full-time AWD system, like Audi, Subaru, Acura, or any other typical rear-biased AWD vehicle (yes, the Acura SH-AWD system is rear-biased), there would be no torque steer. Such is the tragedy of a powerful engine in a wrong-wheel-drive car.


But under heavy acceleration I would imagine at least 50% of the power goes to the rear. I drove the FWD 3.7 v6 MKS, and on pushing hard on the gas, the front wheels would spin. On dry pavement... That NEVER happens on my car. Even when the pavement is wet, it almost never slips.
It can't be 99% of the time FWD. There is always at least some power going to the rear. Otherwise my front tires would spin on dry pavement.
In 8 inches of snow, the rear wheels were actively spinning. All the time. So at least in snow it was awesome.
Looks like Ill put the car up on leasetrader.

But under heavy acceleration I would imagine at least 50% of the power goes to the rear. I drove the FWD 3.7 v6 MKS, and on pushing hard on the gas, the front wheels would spin. On dry pavement... That NEVER happens on my car. Even when the pavement is wet, it almost never slips.
It can't be 99% of the time FWD. There is always at least some power going to the rear. Otherwise my front tires would spin on dry pavement.
In 8 inches of snow, the rear wheels were actively spinning. All the time. So at least in snow it was awesome.
Looks like Ill put the car up on leasetrader.

yes, but. even in my dad's diesel truck, there is a bit of torque steer in 4wd when you punch it. if there is power going to the front wheels, its probably gonna pull a little bit.

Ya know what? I have to admit that I was mistaken on one point. The MKS's AWD system is full time. I did a little more research and found that the AWD system in the MKS as well as the Taurus SHO is basically the Volvo HALDEX system. In the MKS and SHO it is set for a 55/45 front/rear torque split. And up to 100% of the engine's power can be directed to the front or rear at any given time depending on traction parameters. Unfortunately, the front-bias means that with that much power going mostly to the front wheels, there will still be torque steer off the line. Had they gone the more conventional route and made it rear-bised like most other premium AWD luxury cars, torque-steer would be nonexistent. You'll never hear of torque steer in an AWD Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, Audi, etc.

Ya know what? I have to admit that I was mistaken on one point. The MKS's AWD system is full time. I did a little more research and found that the AWD system in the MKS as well as the Taurus SHO is basically the Volvo HALDEX system. In the MKS and SHO it is set for a 55/45 front/rear torque split. And up to 100% of the engine's power can be directed to the front or rear at any given time depending on traction parameters. Unfortunately, the front-bias means that with that much power going mostly to the front wheels, there will still be torque steer off the line. Had they gone the more conventional route and made it rear-bised like most other premium AWD luxury cars, torque-steer would be nonexistent. You'll never hear of torque steer in an AWD Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, Audi, etc.

So can you not get a tune to change that to say 40/60 (FWD to RWD) or is that not possible?

So can you not get a tune to change that to say 40/60 (FWD to RWD) or is that not possible?

That's a good question. It would be nice if it were possible. And I don't see why it wouldn't be. The whole thing's controlled by the computer. If you remember, the old Jaguar X-Type was based on the Ford Mondeo FWD platform with a sideways engine. But it had full-time AWD with rear bias because Jaguar knew its customers wouldn't buy a car they knew was FWD. So there's no reason Lincoln couldn't do the same thing. I'll do some checking. It's got to be possible.

I have to agree w/thaywood. Lincoln really screwed the pooch when they went to FWD.
I just read an article that Lincoln sales are down 36% from last year. They are doing terrible. The local L/M dealer just shut his doors in Chesapeake, another Ford dealer took over the Lincoln franchise. I can't tell you the last time I saw an MKS on the road. I did see an MKT the other day. First time in months I have seen one. Lincoln sold less than 100,000 vehicles last year. They definitely have a problem.

Yep. Unfortunately, Lincoln may go the way of Mercury, Plymouth, Olds, Saturn, and Pontiac in the near future. I would hate to see that happen. I'm a Lincoln man. But my Lincoln would be big, heavy, RWD, and powered by a 460 V-8 with 500 Ft-Lbs of torque!!!

PS - I saw a sort of interview with a BMW exec on a news channel recently when I was sitting at McDonald's. He was asked about competition from several different luxury makes like Mercedes, Lexus and Cadillac. When asked about competition from Lincoln, he just rolled his eyes, snickered, and said BMW didn't even bother worrying about Lincoln. That's a slap in the face to Lincoln and all its loyalists. Ford needs to wake the hell up.

When asked about competition from Lincoln, he just rolled his eyes, snickered, and said BMW didn't even bother worrying about Lincoln.

And why would they? Lincoln can't even dominate it's home market, let alone the foreign ones. Ford wasted too much time and money on Jaguar and other junk and neglected Lincoln.

Another article also gave the statistic that Lincoln had the lowest owner loyalty of all the luxury brands. Around 40%. On a positive note , the CEO of Ford met w/dealers and told them that Ford is making a commitment to rejuvenate the Lincoln brand. If I was the CEO I would fire the bean counter who canceled the LS.

And why would they? Lincoln can't even dominate it's home market, let alone the foreign ones. Ford wasted too much time and money on Jaguar and other junk and neglected Lincoln.

This is true. If Ford had any sense, they would have shared more parts and platforms between Jag and Lincoln. Using Jag platforms and mechanicals, Lincoln could have been able to compete with BMW and Mercedes. But with the demise of the PAG and Ford's sale of Jag and Aston Martin, Lincoln's future as a premium luxury marque was effectively ended. Now Lincoln is nothing more than a Ford in a silk suit. That's sad indeed.

Another article also gave the statistic that Lincoln had the lowest owner loyalty of all the luxury brands. Around 40%. On a positive note , the CEO of Ford met w/dealers and told them that Ford is making a commitment to rejuvenate the Lincoln brand. If I was the CEO I would fire the bean counter who canceled the LS.

Dam skippy! Lincoln needs another car like the LS. RWD with 6 and 8 cylinder power, great handling chassis, piles of luxury, and a good looking body...wait...they already have this car. It's called the Falcon. And, unfortunately, it's only sold in Australia in right-hand-drive. But that's the car Ford needs here in the USA. But they don't have the sense to see it.

This is the 2011 Falcon FPV-GT Boss 315. This car could save Lincoln. Put a Lincoln grille on it and call it the Continental, or something. But Ford will never do it.

60954 60955

More trouble. check engine light is blinking, and the car doesn't want to accelerate. Hesistates, and there is a popping whistling noise as soon as I accelerate. Not happy with the car. I want to get rid of this lease.

More trouble. check engine light is blinking, and the car doesn't want to accelerate. Hesistates, and there is a popping whistling noise as soon as I accelerate. Not happy with the car. I want to get rid of this lease.

Sorry to hear that. That should all be covered under warranty. And the popping and whistling noise sounds like a timing problem.

Wow. No activity on the MKS forum in almost a month. That's horrible. The Mark VIII forum has something going on every single day. Of course, the Mark VIII is a RWD, V-8 powered premium luxury car:D, unlike the MKS. So I would expect that it would have a more loyal following than the "Taurus-in-a-tux" MKS...

More trouble. check engine light is blinking, and the car doesn't want to accelerate. Hesistates, and there is a popping whistling noise as soon as I accelerate. Not happy with the car. I want to get rid of this lease.

Time to lemon law that puppy, check your state laws. And anyone who thinks Lincoln is still a credible luxury make please put down thte Lincoln Kool Aid. It saddens me but I predicted there demise many years ago when the incredibly smart people than at Ford decided that Lincoln would not be part of PAG. So Aston, Land Rover, and Jaguar were part of PAG but Lincoln was not good enough in there eyes. Fast forward to today and Lincoln is basically a Ford trim package.

I always thought since the Panther/ Town Car platform is paid for why not build a new school Town car instead of the current car. Either a 5.0 or 6.2 engine and 6 speed auto. They could make it Lincoln's return to traditional luxury. Since the chassis has been paid for they could really make it nice on the inside and bring back the retro Town car styling and even bring back hidden headlights.

Than make a new Lincoln LS based on the Ford Falcon and a new Mark 8 based on the Mustang chassis. Ford has a lot of good platforms the problem is making them noticeably different by the way they drive and look. Lexus really has it down, its cars also are based on mass market Toyotas but they look and drive different enough to make them worth the price premium.

Time to lemon law that puppy, check your state laws. And anyone who thinks Lincoln is still a credible luxury make please put down thte Lincoln Kool Aid. It saddens me but I predicted there demise many years ago when the incredibly smart people than at Ford decided that Lincoln would not be part of PAG. So Aston, Land Rover, and Jaguar were part of PAG but Lincoln was not good enough in there eyes. Fast forward to today and Lincoln is basically a Ford trim package.

I agree.

I always thought since the Panther/ Town Car platform is paid for why not build a new school Town car instead of the current car. Either a 5.0 or 6.2 engine and 6 speed auto. They could make it Lincoln's return to traditional luxury. Since the chassis has been paid for they could really make it nice on the inside and bring back the retro Town car styling and even bring back hidden headlights.

That would be sweet! That's been something that's been on my mind for years. Why not upgrade the ol' Panther platform? It would even be possible to put IRS on that chassis. All they would have to do is use the IRS setup from the old Explorer chassis and graft it onto the Panther. Then put a 400hp 5.0L V-8 as the standard engine with a 450hp+ 6.2L V-8 as an option with a 6-speed auto as standard. Then upgrade the interior with buckets/console/floor shifter like every other premium luxury sedan in the world and they'd be good to go.

Than make a new Lincoln LS based on the Ford Falcon and a new Mark 8 based on the Mustang chassis. Ford has a lot of good platforms the problem is making them noticeably different by the way they drive and look. Lexus really has it down, its cars also are based on mass market Toyotas but they look and drive different enough to make them worth the price premium.

Ford needs to do exactly that. I've been saying it for years. Lincoln needs to distance itself from Ford in order to be taken seriously as a luxury brand. All of Lincoln's vehicles are obviously re-bodied Fords and everybody knows it. That's why they're not selling. Add to that the fact that they're all wrong-wheel-drive. People who can afford to buy high-class premium luxury cars don't want plebian FWD platforms. They want RWD. That's why you'll never see a FWD Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, etc. As far as Lexus, the LS is not based on a garden variety Toyota. It's RWD and built on a platform that's unique, I'm pretty sure.

Ford needs to do exactly that. I've been saying it for years. Lincoln needs to distance itself from Ford in order to be taken seriously as a luxury brand. All of Lincoln's vehicles are obviously re-bodied Fords and everybody knows it. That's why they're not selling. Add to that the fact that they're all wrong-wheel-drive. People who can afford to buy high-class premium luxury cars don't want plebian FWD platforms. They want RWD. That's why you'll never see a FWD Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, etc. As far as Lexus, the LS is not based on a garden variety Toyota. It's RWD and built on a platform that's unique, I'm pretty sure.

The LS is based on the Toyota Celsior which is a Japan only car, Lexus has done a great job as has Infiniti of using cars as a base that are not available in the US. Also they do a good job at sharing the chassis but being able to drive and look completely different to justify a price premium. But again it takes investment in them by Ford, and they are at least 3-5 years behind Cadillac as far as changing brand perception.

The LS is based on the Toyota Celsior which is a Japan only car

Hmmm. Didn't know that. Well, ya learn somethin' new every day!

Lexus has done a great job as has Infiniti of using cars as a base that are not available in the US. Also they do a good job at sharing the chassis but being able to drive and look completely different to justify a price premium. But again it takes investment in them by Ford, and they are at least 3-5 years behind Cadillac as far as changing brand perception.

This is all true. To me, the Lexus ES is the only one that doesn't live up to its price premium. It's obviously gussied-up Camry. As for the rest of the Lexus line, I have to agree. And you're right, Lincoln has a looooooooooooooong way to go to get to where Caddy is right now. It's going to take some serious investment and some risk-taking on the part of FoMoCo to get Lincoln back up to its former glory. And they won't be able to do it with a bunch of wrong-wheel-drive sissymobiles. They need some good ol' American Rear-Wheel-Drive V-8 muscle to compete with Cadillac and the rest. But I just don't see it happening. Think about it, if Ford thought it was a good idea to turn the Explorer into a FWD minivan wannabe, I shudder to think what they'll do with Lincoln in the future.

Hmmm. Didn't know that. Well, ya learn somethin' new every day!



This is all true. To me, the Lexus ES is the only one that doesn't live up to its price premium. It's obviously gussied-up Camry. As for the rest of the Lexus line, I have to agree. And you're right, Lincoln has a looooooooooooooong way to go to get to where Caddy is right now. It's going to take some serious investment and some risk-taking on the part of FoMoCo to get Lincoln back up to its former glory. And they won't be able to do it with a bunch of wrong-wheel-drive sissymobiles. They need some good ol' American Rear-Wheel-Drive V-8 muscle to compete with Cadillac and the rest. But I just don't see it happening. Think about it, if Ford thought it was a good idea to turn the Explorer into a FWD minivan wannabe, I shudder to think what they'll do with Lincoln in the future.
What's really dumb is how they claim they're using V6 engines for the fuel economy. I mean the new MKS really only gets a few mpg more than the Mark VIII with a big v8. The people who are gonna drop $50K on a new car are rich enough that they don't care that much about a few mpg. They want a badass car with a V8 and RWD. That's why you see so many bigass Escalades around. Keep the v6/fwd for the family sedans like the Taurus.

What's really dumb is how they claim they're using V6 engines for the fuel economy. I mean the new MKS really only gets a few mpg more than the Mark VIII with a big v8.

I agree completely. If all they're concerned with is displacement, why not just build a small displacement V-8? Volvo has a 4.1L in the XC-90 that's basically a bored and stroked version of the old 3.4L 60-degree DOHC Taurus SHO V-8. Would not a 3.5L or 3.7L V-8 get comparable gas mileage to a similar displacement V-6? Fewer cylinders do not always equal better fuel economy. It all has to do with displacement. Not to mention that a small displacement V-8 engine would have small pistons with less surface area that would produce fewer emissions. I'm just not a fan of the V-6 engine. Never have been. And a (former) prestige luxury car like Lincoln should never, ever have a V-6 as the only available engine.

The people who are gonna drop $50K on a new car are rich enough that they don't care that much about a few mpg. They want a badass car with a V8 and RWD. That's why you see so many bigass Escalades around. Keep the v6/fwd for the family sedans like the Taurus.

Again, I agree completely! V-6 engines are fine for plebeian family sedans like Tauruses, Accords, Camrys, and Elantras. But big, premium luxury sport sedans should be Rear-Wheel-Drive with big, honkin' V-8 engines under their hoods! That's just the way it is. Cadillac knows this. BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar...hell, even Hyundai for God's sake knows this!!! WTF is wrong with Ford????

I recently read in a sidebar article in one of the big car mags (MT, C&D, R&T, one or the other, I can't remember) that Lincoln brass are well aware of the sad state of affairs Lincoln is in right now. They are also well aware that Lincoln needs a flagship Rear-Wheel-Drive car to be competetive. They also know that Lincoln is basically perceived as nothing more than a Ford in a silk suit but the Ford brass won't let Lincoln have the money or resources they need to produce a real RWD luxury car to change that perception. Lincoln management is worried that the division may not be around much longer if Ford won't let them upgrade or expand. It'll be a sad day when Lincoln dies. But it's going to happen. It's just a matter of time. Then Caddy will have the American luxury market all to itself.

The current future plan:

http://www.fordinsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?7319-Lincoln-Compact-CUV-possibly-named-MkD-MkC-confirmed-Aviator-reborn&

Not good, in my opinion. Also, I'm SICK TO DEATH of that silly 'MK bla bla bla' name on virtually everything.

The current future plan:

http://www.fordinsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?7319-Lincoln-Compact-CUV-possibly-named-MkD-MkC-confirmed-Aviator-reborn&

Ugh...:Bang:slam:sleep:

Not good, in my opinion. Also, I'm SICK TO DEATH of that silly 'MK bla bla bla' name on virtually everything.

Lincoln won't be around much longer. I hate to see such a storied and historic nameplate slide so far down hill.

Guys i think that we have it all wrong we all seem to forget what a American Luxery car used to be and what is being produced now. For some reason people think that we should follow the Germans but guys this is not Germany or Japan this is America. We don't have autobahns or twisty highways we have long straight highways that are made for cruising in my opinion is that the American automakers have lost their identity and need to return to what made us great. Big, powerful and comfortable ride with alot of technology. And the mks is just that the Mercedes s class and all of the Lexus are doing this the difference is that they have earned prestige while Lincoln still has not. We compare Cadillac but other than the Cts they are producing the same cars like the mks. Now do I think they should have v8 and rwd it would be nice but really its not necessary. Now I heard Lincoln is pumping 1billion dollars into Lincoln and update all their show rooms to Mb and BMW status and also now they are going to sell Lincoln globally. This auto company cannot be expected to hit a home run but they are doing a steady progressive rise and traying to get customers back by offering a different kind of luxery without the hefty price tag. I have a 04 ls v8 and they let me drive the mks eccoboost for 1 full day and yes the handling is not as precise but it was no way bad it was just different. The cabin on my ls is noisy I can hear and feel everything and in the mks is quiet really quiet and the ride is smooth the car makes you just want to cruise meanwhile the ls your looking for a sharp corner to hit. Not bad but just different. I would buy it if the price was right for me. So guys Lincoln is not dead they are not following the pack any more and carving their own identity but I must agree I has the Mk BLS BLS names

And if their is any argument that rwd is really needed for this class. What really pushed audi away from Volkswagen is their superb awd (Quattro) linup they offered something different than the others and now after all this time they are getting their just deserves.

Lincoln needs to continue to do what they are doing and refine it. Just the same way Lexus redefined smooth and quiet rides and bww/mb athletic and handling. American automakers cannot pretend to beet them at their own game we must play ours and perfect it. I used to live in new York city as if 4 years ago and all the livery cabs in NYC are Lincoln town cars it felt great being driven in them now since they are discontinued cabbies are replacing them with Mb and caddy Cts but I must admit the ride is not the same It wasn't like the town car then i realized i have never seen a German limo other than a maybach and the cost 200k plus. American luxery = a great riding car that feels like home in the streets. German luxery = great driving cars they only drives well on a autobahn that we don't have.

Guys i think that we have it all wrong we all seem to forget what a American Luxery car used to be and what is being produced now.

Yes. American luxury cars used to be big, heavy, lumbering beasts that rode like floating on a cloud but wallowed and bounced and floated in the curvies. We surely need more cars like that:rolleyes:

Not that that's bad. I've had a '62 Continental, '71 Continental, '79 Town Coupe, and two '88 Town Cars. And I loved them. They were big, heavy, lumbering beasts that handled like land yachts, but they were supremely comfortable, luxurious, powerful and fast. The '71 Connie especially, with its 365hp/500ft-lb 460 V-8 could do the best smokey burnouts:D But that's not what luxury car buyers want now. If someone has the money to plop down for a premium luxury sedan, they want something a little better than what is obviously a rebadged wrong-wheel-drive Taurus or Fusion. That's why Lincoln is losing so much of the market share. Why spend $60K on a FWD MKS when you can go across the street and get proper RWD Cadillac CTS or STS for the same money?

For some reason people think that we should follow the Germans but guys this is not Germany or Japan this is America.

This is true. However, if Lincoln can't even compete here in America, how do they plan to compete in the rest of the world. Luxury cars and sport sedans are defined by a few makes. Most notably Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti and BMW. Cadillac has seen the light and returned the majority of its vehicles to proper RWD platforms with real performance and luxury that can compete with its European rivals.

We don't have autobahns or twisty highways we have long straight highways that are made for cruising

That's not entirely true. We have many highways that have speed limits of 65 and up. We also have many twisty, curvy roads. I frequently drive my Mark VIII on these roads because I enjoy it. So do a lot of other people judging by the numbers of BMW's I see on the road every day:)

in my opinion is that the American automakers have lost their identity and need to return to what made us great. Big, powerful and comfortable ride with alot of technology.

Please refer to my first comment.

And the mks is just that the Mercedes s class and all of the Lexus are doing this the difference is that they have earned prestige while Lincoln still has not.

I'm sorry. The MKS is not anywhere close to being in the same league as the Mercedes S class, or even the Lexus LS. Lincoln had prestige...many moons ago. Somewhere around the 70's or 80's they lost their way, and have been going down hill ever since. Now Lincoln is nothing more than a Ford in a silk suit. And everybody knows it.

We compare Cadillac but other than the Cts they are producing the same cars like the mks.

Nope. You're forgetting the STS. It's RWD as it should be and nothing like the MKS. And it's not just a re-badged Chevy. The DTS, however, is still FWD but at least it is V-8 powered. Again, nothing like the MKS.

Now do I think they should have v8 and rwd it would be nice but really its not necessary.

Yes. It is. Very necessary. If Lincoln wishes to play in the premium luxury car sandbox, they need to have the same toys as everybody else. RWD and V-8 engines are prerequisites in this category. If you don't have them, you aren't in the same class.

Now I heard Lincoln is pumping 1billion dollars into Lincoln and update all their show rooms to Mb and BMW status and also now they are going to sell Lincoln globally.

That's all well and good. However, the FWD MKS and MKZ will not be able to compete with any of the premium luxury makes in other countries any better than they do here in the USA unless something is changed. How the showroom looks makes no difference if your product doesn't have the tools to be competitive.

This auto company cannot be expected to hit a home run but they are doing a steady progressive rise and traying to get customers back by offering a different kind of luxery without the hefty price tag.

They are not rising. Lincoln is falling. Rapidly. They're losing market share and owner loyalty. Lincoln is in a horrible state of affairs and it doesn't show any signs of getting any better. Even the brass at Lincoln know that they need a premium RWD halo car if they want Lincoln to be taken seriously as a real luxury brand. But Ford won't give them the money or resources to build such a vehicle. So they're stuck with reworking lesser Ford products into something resembling a premium luxury car that doesn't quite meet the standards of Mercedes, Cadillac, or BMW.

I have a 04 ls v8 and they let me drive the mks eccoboost for 1 full day and yes the handling is not as precise but it was no way bad it was just different. The cabin on my ls is noisy I can hear and feel everything and in the mks is quiet really quiet and the ride is smooth the car makes you just want to cruise meanwhile the ls your looking for a sharp corner to hit. Not bad but just different. I would buy it if the price was right for me. So guys Lincoln is not dead they are not following the pack any more and carving their own identity but I must agree I has the Mk BLS BLS names

The LS was Lincoln's last real effort to produce a car that could compete with luxury cars from Japan and Europe. And it was a fabulous car. My next car will be an LS, preferably an '00-'02 with the 3.0L V-6 and 5-speed manual transmission. It's too bad they didn't put the manual in the V-8 models. The LS was by far the best handling Lincoln ever made. But they let the car stagnate for seven years without an update and it was overshadowed by the Cadillac CTS and most notably the CTS-V until it was finally trampled. But instead of updating and improving the LS, Ford took the easy and cheap road and re-badged the Fusion to make the Zyphyr (which was an insult to the original V-12 Lincoln Zephyr).

And if their is any argument that rwd is really needed for this class. What really pushed audi away from Volkswagen is their superb awd (Quattro) linup they offered something different than the others and now after all this time they are getting their just deserves.

I don't quite understand that comment. In this class, RWD is absolutely a necessity. Audi's AWD system is rear-biased to elimitate torque steer and give their cars a RWD "feel". The FWD Audi's are in a somewhat lower class more in line with Volkswagen and Acura. In the higher class premium territory where Mercedes, BMW, and Jaguar live, RWD is absolutely necessary.

Lincoln needs to continue to do what they are doing and refine it.

Yes. Keep refining Taurus' and Fusions and Edges. Come on. Lincoln needs some distinctive products that can be easily distinguished from their Ford siblings. And they desperately need RWD.

Just the same way Lexus redefined smooth and quiet rides and bww/mb athletic and handling.

With RWD and V-8 engines.:D

American automakers cannot pretend to beet them at their own game we must play ours and perfect it.

Agreed. But there's nothing wrong with putting forth a little effort to at least try to compete. Lincoln's not even doing that.

I used to live in new York city as if 4 years ago and all the livery cabs in NYC are Lincoln town cars it felt great being driven in them now since they are discontinued cabbies are replacing them with Mb and caddy Cts but I must admit the ride is not the same It wasn't like the town car then i realized i have never seen a German limo other than a maybach and the cost 200k plus. American luxery = a great riding car that feels like home in the streets. German luxery = great driving cars they only drives well on a autobahn that we don't have.

It's not just about speed. It's about a combination of smooth ride, crisp handling, and refined luxury. That's what premium luxury car buyers want. If Lincoln want's to compete globally with the big boys, they'll need to ditch the wrong-wheel-drive and V6-only engine choice in favor of RWD/AWD and at least one V-8 engine option. They'll need to tighten up their quality. Make the bodystyles more distinctive, and upgrade the interiors to European/Japanese standards. Basically, they need to do what Cadillac has already done. Then maybe they'll avoid the fate of Mercury.

Just out of curiosity, you have "1701" in your username. Are you a Trek fan?

Thaywood I do agree to alot of your opinions regarding he level of quality hat Lincoln needs to improve upon and I think they have but still have more of a long way to go. We seem to be judging lincoln on what they have done in the past under previous CEO he rt ford Jr ir the 3rd (you know witch one) and before when Davey new model that lincoln bring out was a new direction but now under mullaly they are now being consistent across the model lines by using the same theme and queues to identify their brand. The question is what's going to happen when the next models come out are they going to keep the same strategy and build upon the good points and improve on the bad. We should have this Congo in 2012 when the refresh and new models are coming out and see if this new CEO gets it like it seems he is. I agree that they should have a rwd platform but its not a necessary to have all their cars rwd. According to Allan mullaly they are going to stop sharing sheet metal between lincoln and fords that just tells me that he is aware of this issue that alot of us have. You may have a point, why buy a mks if the Taurus is the same car but Toyota is also having that issue why buy a e series when a Camry is just as good. Letz wait until the refreshes come in and the updated models and then lets see where they are going with the lincoln brand. If he had the balls to kill the mercs something that was long overdue then he has the balls to fix this brand. Ever since he has become CEO he has made the right moves at Ford.

As one of my favorite characters will say "Ford live long and prosper"

I'm a trekkie and I am and always will be aford fan lol....

I'm a trekkie and I am and always will be aford fan lol....

I'm a Trekkie as well and a loyal Ford man all the way! Nice to see a fellow fan!:)

Still no love for the MKS forum, apparently.

I'm gonna be lovin me some MKS real soon:D.
And as far as is this still premium luxury - hell yeah.
Come to Boston, i'll let you drive it. Obviously RWD or true AWD would be best but it is what it is for the time being. Soooo powerful, all the way through the RPM range. Pulls strong and the paddle shift is kickass.

I'm gonna be lovin me some MKS real soon:D.

To each his own.

And as far as is this still premium luxury - hell yeah.

I'm sorry. I have to vehemently disagree. Lincoln is no longer a "premium" luxury car maker. It barely qualifies as "entry level" luxury. Especially when compared to the competition from Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, Jaguar, etc. When the Ford beancounters give Lincoln the funds and resources to build the real RWD V-8 powered car they want to, then maybe they will be allowed back in the sandbox to play with the big boys. Until then, rebadged Fords with FWD and V-6 drivetrains just won't cut it.

Come to Boston, i'll let you drive it. Obviously RWD or true AWD would be best but it is what it is for the time being. Soooo powerful, all the way through the RPM range. Pulls strong and the paddle shift is kickass.

I'll pass. But thanks anyway.

To each his own.



I'm sorry. I have to vehemently disagree. Lincoln is no longer a "premium" luxury car maker. It barely qualifies as "entry level" luxury. Especially when compared to the competition from Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, Jaguar, etc. When the Ford beancounters give Lincoln the funds and resources to build the real RWD V-8 powered car they want to, then maybe they will be allowed back in the sandbox to play with the big boys. Until then, rebadged Fords with FWD and V-6 drivetrains just won't cut it.



I'll pass. But thanks anyway.


Get over it would ya? Whats up with your constant bashing. The car is freaking unbelievable. Go drive one or shut up:D.

To each his own.



I'm sorry. I have to vehemently disagree. Lincoln is no longer a "premium" luxury car maker. It barely qualifies as "entry level" luxury. Especially when compared to the competition from Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, Jaguar, etc. When the Ford beancounters give Lincoln the funds and resources to build the real RWD V-8 powered car they want to, then maybe they will be allowed back in the sandbox to play with the big boys. Until then, rebadged Fords with FWD and V-6 drivetrains just won't cut it.



I'll pass. But thanks anyway.

Constalntly hearing the same thing about the Harley Vrod, because it isn't air cooled it isn't a REAL Harley! Who made them and you the decision maker. Bike is fast, awesome, loud, sexy and gets compliments everywhere except from the "True Harley Men' that can't get over it. Hmmmm.:eek: Just sayin.;)

I don't think they will let you drive one wearing a straw hat with a blade of grass in your teeth. :)


I can hear the salesman now.

Go wash that green slime off your hands before you think of coming into the show room.

Get over it would ya? Whats up with your constant bashing. The car is freaking unbelievable. Go drive one or shut up:D.

:rolleyes:Ummm. This is my thread and I will say what I like as often as I like. Thank you. You can't handle it? Go somewhere else or go make your own thread about how "freaking unbleievable" the car is.:p

Constalntly hearing the same thing about the Harley Vrod, because it isn't air cooled it isn't a REAL Harley! Who made them and you the decision maker. Bike is fast, awesome, loud, sexy and gets compliments everywhere except from the "True Harley Men' that can't get over it. Hmmmm.:eek: Just sayin.;)

Everybody has an opinion. Mine is that the MKS is nothing more than a gussied up Taurus and that it is not a premium luxury car because of that and it's FWD drivetrain.

I don't think they will let you drive one wearing a straw hat with a blade of grass in your teeth. :)

No. They wouldn't let YOU in looking that way. Thankfully, I take a little more pride in my appearance than that.

I can hear the salesman now.

I guess you hear that a lot. Oh well.:rolleyes: