US War Crimes...get your US War Crimes here...!!!

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm

US War Crimes...get your US War Crimes here...!!!

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm

war is war, there is nothing positive to be found. I'm sure if my buddy was tortured and dragged through the streets i would have some anger in me as well.

Good! We should do more of that.

Hey Ron. How about the mass graves discovered in the last 2 days that are estimated to contain over 1,000,000 humans, maybe as high as 3,000,000? Maybe another holocaust in Iraq.

And your worried about a guy standing on a box. Heck, on Survivor they made people stand on poles in the middle of the ocean in the hot sun for pete's sake.

Nice try. Please post again.

Bush expresses 'deep disgust' at prison photos

Father of soldier: 'There's two sides to the story'




(CNN) -- In the face of international outrage, President Bush said Friday that he was disgusted by photographs that apparently show American soldiers abusing detainees at a prison outside Baghdad.

"I share a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated," Bush said. "Their treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people. That's not the way we do things in America."

The photographs, which were first broadcast Wednesday on CBS' "60 Minutes II" in the United States, were shown Friday by Arab television networks.

CNN has not verified the authenticity of the images.

"I didn't like it one bit," Bush added during an appearance in the White House Rose Garden with visiting Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin.

The U.S. military said six U.S. soldiers have been charged with abusing inmates at Abu Ghurayb prison, which was infamous under Saddam Hussein's reign.

Ivan Frederick, the father of a military policeman involved in the case, Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Ivan "Chip" Frederick, 37, told a CNN affiliate that his son is "worried, and I'm sure he's scared."

Chip Frederick, with the 800th Military Police Brigade based at Cresaptown, Maryland, was relieved of his duties in mid-January, his father said.

"When he left [the prison] he said there was some 900 prisoners," up from 400 when he arrived, the father said. "He said in an e-mail he had 70 Iraqis who he was trying to train to be security guards at the prison, and the language barrier made it hard to communicate with them.

He said his son had been detained at Camp Victory in Iraq without an attorney for 82 days.

"There's two sides to the story. The military has one and we have another," the father said. "We are a close-knit family, we always have been, and we are determined to do whatever it takes to get this situation straightened out. He's a perfect son."

White House spokesman Scott McClellan described the acts depicted in the photos as "despicable."

"We cannot tolerate it, and the military is taking strong action against those responsible," McClellan said.

He said the president had known about the images for a while but declined to offer further details.

When asked about a potential worldwide backlash over the pictures, McClellan said, "It does not represent what we stand for, and I think the military has made it very clear that they are going to pursue -- to the fullest extent of the law -- these individuals."

U.S. intelligence officials say the CIA Inspector General is cooperating with Defense Department officials in the abuse investigations, including one case in which an Iraqi detainee died in the Abu Ghurayb prison.

A U.S. intelligence official said CIA personnel had nothing to do with photos taken by U.S. soldiers of Iraqi prisoners being abused at the same prison.

"We do not support or condone abusing prisoners, and if we hear any such allegations, they are reported" to the CIA's inspector general, an official said.

British military officials are also investigating abuse allegations against some of their troops.

London's Daily Mirror newspaper will publish in its Saturday edition photographs that purport to show British soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners, including one picture of a soldier urinating on a hooded detainee, according to copies of the newspaper already released. (Full story (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/30/iraq.brit.prisoner.abuse/index.html))

In Iraq, a military official of the U.S.-led coalition also said the photos disgusted him.

Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the coalition's deputy chief of operations, said that he was "appalled that fellow soldiers who wear the same uniforms as us would do this."

"They crossed the line and violated every tenet we teach in the Army about dignity and respect," he said, adding that he was expressing his personal opinion and not speaking on the coalition's behalf.

CBS said it has dozens of pictures purportedly showing a range of abuses.

Some of the images published on one London, England-based newspaper's Web site show naked, hooded prisoners. In one, a male and a female soldier smile as they pose with prisoners.

One picture shows what is apparently an Iraqi prisoner standing on a box with his head covered and wires attached to his hands.

Kimmitt said he has met with representatives of Iraq's newspapers to discuss how to report the story. Iraq does not publish newspapers on Friday, the Muslim holy day.

But some Baghdad residents who saw the images Friday said the photographs angered them.

An investigation began in January after a soldier reported the alleged abuse to superiors, Kimmitt said this week.

Kimmitt declined to disclose the charges or other details, but he said military authorities take any such reports seriously.

"We are committed to treating all persons under coalition custody with dignity, respect and humanity," he said.

"Coalition personnel are expected to act appropriately, humanely and in a manner consistent with the Geneva Conventions."

British Prime Minister Tony Blair's human rights envoy to Iraq said Friday that she was shocked by the images, while the editor of a London-based Arabic-language newspaper predicted Muslims would be furious.

Ann Clwyd, Blair's envoy and a lawmaker from the ruling Labor Party, voiced her condemnation. "I think they are absolutely terrible. I am shocked," she told British radio.

However, Clwyd said there was no comparison with how prisoners were treated under Saddam Hussein.

"A small number of cases, horrible though they are -- you cannot compare that with the tens of thousands of people Saddam Hussein was responsible for executing and torturing," she said.

Abdel Bari Atwan, editor of Al-Quds Al-Arabi newspaper in London, said he agreed.

"It is absolutely shocking. I think this is the end of the story, the straw that broke the camel's back, for America," he told the UK Press Association.

"People will be extremely angry. ... Sexual abuse is the worst thing in that part of the world. It is shocking to all Muslims. America has lost the battle completely. I believe there will be more attacks."


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Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/30/iraq.photos/index.html

If you torture 1 million or 1, it's the same result. It's a war crime, and you're no better than them. So what Bryan is saying is it's OK to be barbaric because the government you've replaced was barbaric. Good reasoning...

1 million?? There are MANY sources that say the US sanctions against Iraq (which never hurt Saddam) killed more than 1 million Iraqis. I mean if you want to keep score...

If you torture 1 million or 1, it's the same result. It's a war crime, and you're no better than them. So what Bryan is saying is it's OK to be barbaric because the government you've replaced was barbaric. Good reasoning...

1 million?? There are MANY sources that say the US sanctions against Iraq (which never hurt Saddam) killed more than 1 million Iraqis. I mean if you want to keep score...
In fairness, the sanctions didnt kill anyone. There was food and medicine available to them, saddam took the money and built palaces.

and I am horrified but what has been reported and there is no excuse. THey need to be dealt with

Does anyone actually believe that any country, including you up there in Canada, can field an army in a hostile foreign country with nothing but boy scouts who never commit any sort of crime? I'm not excusing what was done, and believe me anyone found guilty of these sorts of acts will be prosecuted to the fullest extent to make an example for everyone else. But this "the sky is falling!" mentality for a scenario that happens in EVERY war and in EVERY army is ridiculous. Of course the U.S. is going to get politically attacked for this, we do for everything. It's always our fault, isn't it? Oh, sorry, I was beginning to think like a few Canadians.

:I

"If you torture 1 million or 1, it's the same result. It's a war crime, and you're no better than them. So what Bryan is saying is it's OK to be barbaric because the government you've replaced was barbaric."

I must confess I have only seen the picture of the guy in a contest not to be voted off the island (LMAO) and a pile of guys that must have taken off their clothes laying on top of each other. If anyone can point me in the direction of the other pictures of atrocities, I'll be happy to review them and voice my opinion.

Somehow I don't think they will rise to the level of the charred and hacked up bodies seen being dragged through the streets and hung from poles recently. I'll grab those pictures and then we can compare pics side by side. Deal?

And is there very much press given to the numerous murders of unarmed U.S. civilian contractors who are over there trying to help? But according to some opinions I guess those murders are justified? I apologize for my sarcastic tone, I don't want to suppress any opinions. Lively debate promotes thinking and ideas, which is always a good thing. But with a statement like "no wonder the Iraqi's are pissed" makes me pissed.

I know one guy in the Army who just got back from Iraq. He said that almost all of the Iraqi people he encountered were very friendly and grateful to the U.S. He's a combat engineer and he was all over Iraq, but mainly around the Baghdad area. He spent a lot of his time keeping an Iraqi hospital running. This 20 year old kid was very proud that he helped these people. When he came home for 2 weeks on furlough during the holidays (which was a complete surprise to his mother) he couldn't wait to get back over there and continue to help. He was touched to an unknown degree by the suffering he witnessed and the horrible tales he heard from Iraqi citizens under the tyranny of Saddam Hussein. I wonder which Iraqi's are upset with the U.S., maybe Baathists, and thugs who want to take advantage of a volatile situation, and Islamic radicals that pervert their own religion?

We live in a new world, like it or not. If terrorists are allowed to attack the U.S. with little fear of reprisal, then they will attack again . . . guaranteed. And the next attack will be greater than the previous one. What does history teach us about war? It is always better to be on the offensive than on the defensive. We cannot . . . let me rephrase: "should not" . . . allow them the luxury of time to plan their next attack. Instead of other countries telling the U.S. that we should cool our heels, they should pitch in and help in the war on terrorism. This war is geurilla in nature. The U.S. is the target now, but all other free enterprise, democratic countries are at risk as well. It's only a matter of time. To deny that fact is to deny what Al Qaida and other terrorist organizations firmly believe and stand for. Meanwhile the U.S. will continue to take the heat for protecting our country and in doing so, protecting all other pro-western and/or democratic countries. It's like the guy that shoots the mass murderer and is then scolded and told he should apologize. Sorry to disappoint anyone, but that aint never gonna happen.

If you torture 1 million or 1, it's the same result. It's a war crime, and you're no better than them. So what Bryan is saying is it's OK to be barbaric because the government you've replaced was barbaric. Good reasoning...

1 million?? There are MANY sources that say the US sanctions against Iraq (which never hurt Saddam) killed more than 1 million Iraqis. I mean if you want to keep score...

Tell that to the Jewish people. There is a difference between isolated incidences (notice I use "incident" instead of "accident" admitting that this could have been avoided) of a few criminals (notice I use "criminal" instead of "soldier") and the policy of an entire government. I certainly hope that you are not implying that it is the policy of the U.S. government to use such tactics or to condone their use, as was the policy of the Iraqi government.

I believe Joey addressed your second paragraph.

I believe Joey addressed your second paragraph.

Well I tried.


Nothing excuses the actions of the few US people who did that - 2 wrongs dont make a right. But There is a huge difference between the isolated actions of a few and the policy of a government. It is definately not US policy to abuse prisoners.

It is definately not US policy to abuse prisoners.
Exactly. So you deal with the few bad apples instead of burning down the whole orchard.

So lets forget about the Us prisioners that where tourtured and killed too right? WAR is WAR, we neeed to finish this crap in iraq and then get back to basics, the problems INSIDE this country.

So lets forget about the Us prisioners that where tourtured and killed too right? WAR is WAR, we neeed to finish this crap in iraq and then get back to basics, the problems INSIDE this country.

No, by no means forget -but take the high road..... We shouldnt be torturing or abusing anyone. And "we" arent. It was just a few selected idiots,, who will be dealt with im sure.