After countless emails and phonecalls I FINALLY got a picture of the headers for the LS/Tbird... Im getting them.. I dont care what any of you have to say, Im gettting them, they are my next mod..

Are those from stainless works?

Yes!

Look good!! I bet they steal your wallet too.:D

How much?

Mid 800's IIRC

for MAYBE 15 hp? damn.... My uncle told me if I bought headers for my car to never ask him to do it because "it looks like a total B!TCH"

are you sure those are the headers for an LS?

last time I looked - we used short manifolds and the cats came down from the engine bay. Looks like these are either not for an LS or you pull your cats.

The O2 sensors are plumed into the top of the cat....

oh man, that is great

I dont think those are gunnna fit our car.

Im waiting for a response on the catalytic converter delete and O2 provision's/extensions. They have an EGR pipe with it tho! :shifty:

don't need the EGR.... can always block it in the tune.. ;)

I think Im one of the only people that hasnt gotten a tune for my car yet.. :rolleyes:

don't need the EGR.... can always block it in the tune.. ;)

This may be a stupid question but why would you want to block the EGR?

I think Im one of the only people that hasnt gotten a tune for my car yet.. :rolleyes:

I dont have one...

You may be the only one with more than exhaust / intake mods and no tune though

This may be a stupid question but why would you want to block the EGR?

if you do not have one....

States that have an emissions test - like Texas - I can only have two (of 12) sensors in a 'not ready' state. None in a 'failed' state.

So, without an EGR - the PCM would throw a code and I would 'fail' the EGR test. By blocking it in the PCM (tell it this car does not have a EGR) I do not 'fail' but the EGR test comes back 'not ready'.

The EVAP test is always the last test to come ready, so if you have any other test in 'not ready' you always have the EVAP as well - hence my two.

I think Im one of the only people that hasnt gotten a tune for my car yet.. :rolleyes:

A custom tune is the best upgrade for the LS dollar for dollar.

I'm thinking the TCI streetfighter gives the XCal a run for it's money though.

not even close. the TC is a good mod, but no where near the flexibility and gains of a tune.

for flexibility, yes. Do you think 1/4 mile times improve the same between a tune or the TC?

Id find out tomorrow if it stops raining up here.. The LS feels a lot different with the TCI in it, hell I chirped going into second the other day which before the tc swap I couldnt get the slightest bit of spin leaving the line in first gear.. The only times I havent gotten both wheels to spin was in the rain. I deffinetely think the TCI can give the SCT a $ for $ match E/T wise but I still have yet to do the SCT so I dont really have a clue but at the same time, nobody else has done a higher stall torque converter so..

for flexibility, yes. Do you think 1/4 mile times improve the same between a tune or the TC?

Yes - working the shift points, shift firmness, hp and torque gains - will be better than the higher stall.

higher stall - good mod. balance the gains against money and time (which depending on your skill and tools is more money).

Yes - working the shift points, shift firmness, hp and torque gains - will be better than the higher stall.

higher stall - good mod. balance the gains against money and time (which depending on your skill and tools is more money).


Sorry but I cant agree with you. With how heavy this car is and how much of a slug it is off the line I really think the converter is a better mod, granted its not track proven yet but Ive done a pretty fair amount of racing to recognize a difference in performance.

The converter has upped the firmness of the shifts as well and their might be a small gain in hp/tq with the new converter, nothing has been proven yet. If this thing 60's better the e/t's will be down, thats a given.

If anything they amount to the same gains at the track, hopefully Ill be able to find out before the season ends.

well of course that's what you'll say.

not peeing on your efforts, in fact, it is good to see someone trying new things. You should be commended for trying them.

but facts are facts.

So wait let me get this straight, your saying the tune is going to be a better mod and you have yet to do a torque converter, and Im saying the exact opposite. Neither of us can really be sure now can we until I get this thing to the track correct?

And yea Im not bashing on you either but neither one of us should really be saying which is better until track times are presented and compared. But by all means if you wanna keep saying the SCT tune is better Ill argue with you all night :D

no arguement from me. facts are facts.

Ok well do you mind sharing where you get these facts stating that a tune is better than the tci streetfighter for the lincoln ls?

it all depends on what you value for your money right?

With your TC upgrade you will not improve hp/torque on a dyno - but see improvement getting up to TC lock. you should see about 0.4 sec improvement in your 1/4 mile time. not bad. that is what the testing on a stock mustang saw http://www.stangtv.com/forum/speed-up-your-s197-tci-streetfighter-5113.html# the torque curve is more aggressive than the LS - but it'll be close - right? (same trannie nearly the same weight)

roughly $450 for the TC plus install + fluids. Your install was free - but most will have to pay a few $100.

The SCT should net about 18.7rwhp and 19lbs/ft - plus:
- remove your rev limiter and speed limiter (depends on model)
- firm up shifts
- change and maximize your shift points
- allow datalogging for future / more detailed tuning (many sensors to log)
- offer realtime display of these parameters
- integrates external sensors into datastream - like wideband O2, map, ..etc
- can read and clear CEL engine codes

for $399 - 10mins to install

again - similar to the header thread. Are there gains - sure. Worth the money - depends. I'm sure you agree that it will have more value as you further modify your car - as a heavier torque curve will multiply the benefits. So on a stock LS - 0.4 sec ain't bad (about 3 car lengths), depends what you end up paying for it.

Everybody gets so caught up in HP. If you can better use given hp, making your car faster, that's what's more important to me.

HP to me seems more like a bragging right. Just looks good on paper.

AS long as you are making the car faster, who cares if it adds hp? I mean, it's not like you're dumping weight and turning the car into a tin can.

I agree that the SCT is way more involved, but that 399 does not include datalogging, and refining tunes. You would need to spend the 349 on the SCT software, and learn to tune, or pay a tuner to look at the datalogs, and refine the tune accordingly. Not saying that the 399 is not a great price, but some of the stuff you listed does include extra investment amounts that aren't listed. And any other items, like wideband O2 sensors, are not included in that 399 investment. Datalogging also takes time. As does installing the wideband O2 sensors, or setting up software, etc.

I would really like to see an SCT tuned LS vs. a higher TC'd LS, and see which is faster. We should probably just wait for that to happen before the argument of "which is better" takes place.

I never said one was better. I just said that the TC is a good competitor for the SCT tune. And I'm getting one :)

TC + SCT = :D

Pete - datalogging does come with the standard device. And it is useful, even without being able to retune the car. I use it constantly to see if thing I do to the car improve it - not always used just to retune.

My point was, and clearely stated, that the device allow integration of these external sensors into one datalog stream - which is very useful. Trying to match the output from three different controllers and sync there timestamps is very difficult - not to mention trying to log three different systems at the same time.

As I said, the TC will have even more benefit as he improves the car's output - which he cannot likely do without the SCT anyway - so the point is moot unless he stops now.

Ah. I need to figure out how to set it up. KK was going to give me some pointers. He told me it's a little involved setting it up, but the datalogging itself is simple.

I run vista though, have they worked out the kinks with it?

PETE!!! AWAY WITH THAT VISTA CRAP. Get the Windows 7 Release Client and install it! its FRAY (FREE)!!!

Dude, I know so little about computers it's scary.

I didn't even know there was something else out.

Will the TCI only work with the 5R55S? That's all I could find it listed for

Figured I'd add my $.02. Stainlessworks headers on a Thunderbird. There ya go.:cool:

Figured I'd add my $.02. Stainlessworks headers on a Thunderbird. There ya go.:cool:

with the cat delete, damn that looks like a LS lol

Except for that big X brace.

Headers are best with a new tune for them. IMO a tune is a MUST have with headers.

The x brace must be because it's a convertible.

Headers are best with a new tune for them. IMO a tune is a MUST have with headers.

The x brace must be because it's a convertible.

What would you change in the tune for headers?

What kind of performance gains did you see with the headers? Any dyno results?

What would you change in the tune for headers?

Headers can mess with the A/F ratio. This varies from engine to engine and header to header but I'd rather be safe and enjoy the benefits of the tune with headers. I've header of a few people that had to pull a little timing to prevent pinging, they still said it was worth it for the power gain of the headers

Headers can mess with the A/F ratio.

Headers can effect the about of air and gas that goes into the intake?

really?

Headers can effect the about of air and gas that goes into the intake?

really?

Im kind of stumped on this as well? Ive never heard of a tune for just headers/exhaust.

I've read it before on here multiple times. On that thread where the guy put headers on his white gen1 and broke something later on cause of it. Someone said it was cause he didn't have a tune for it.

Originally Posted by Quik LS
Headers can effect the about of air and gas that goes into the intake?

really?

Sarcasm? :confused:

can you find the thread? how can the exhaust system change the afr in the intake?

I have never heard of that, so I would like to learn about it.

It changes the scavenging effect, which does change out much air/fuel can enter the combustion chamber. Also with a larger diameter pipe where the O2 sensor is changes the sample size.

Never mind. It was a customs cams not headers. Been a while since I read it. Sorry.Ignore my previous post :slam......I have read people saying you need a tune for headers though, dont know why

Here's a bad example but explains it a little bit on a 6.0 gm gas engine.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0710_6l_ls_series_small_block/index.html

funny... you said IMO a tune is a MUST have with headers

....

I think Im one of the only people that hasnt gotten a tune for my car yet.. :rolleyes:

Nope....I havent done ANYTHING to my LS haha

funny... you said

....

O.k.

Nope....I havent done ANYTHING to my LS haha

Thats just because you fail at life.

F the haters!

F the haters!

WTF??? :confused:

you don't need a custom tune or any tune for headers. The computer recognizes and adjusts to any fuel/air change as long as you have the o2 sensors connected. If you needed a tune for headers than why not need one for changing cai or exhaust as this changes air/fuel also maybe not as much as headers but enough to drastically change the car from stock. The only thing that can destroy engine is if you run open headers or manifolds or no mufflers.
You would eventually destroy the valves...happens to people who do this on any small block engine. After inspecting the car i'm willing to bet any headers from the newer mustangs might fit especially after hearing that the frame of our cars were based on the 2005 to present mustangs. Different engines but i'm sure they might work. Anyhoo just my 2 cents.

Right - headers will have a potential gain of 8-15 hp - and move the torque curve a little. The PCM has enough logic to adjust for that small amount...

I agree the lack of backpressure causes long-term damange, and the exhaust side cannot disspate enough heat...

Just as an FYI - the 2005+ Mustang - they attempted to re-use the DEW98 chassis (Lincoln LS) but could not get the cost model down to where they needed it for the Mustang price point, and therefore only the floorpan design ever made it into the Mustang. The 3.9L heads are infact use much small port spacing and the mod motor bolt-ons will not fit... yeah for us,..

Nope....I havent done ANYTHING to my LS haha

didnt you paint like just one tail light?

Figured I'd add my $.02. Stainlessworks headers on a Thunderbird. There ya go.:cool:

Sure looks like those will scrape even the lowest speed bumps! Forget about steep driveways!

Yeah, probably. Looks like they might have the elbows right AT the scraping point. Although, this is a pic that I got last year, so maybe they've perfected their layout somewhat. And the LS doesn't have that cross-brace in the way, either. I just figured that someone might like to see what they look like since they don't have any pics on their website. (Always thought that was kinda weird tho.)

I posted a pic at the very beginning of this thread :confused:

Headers can mess with the A/F ratio. This varies from engine to engine and header to header but I'd rather be safe and enjoy the benefits of the tune with headers. I've header of a few people that had to pull a little timing to prevent pinging, they still said it was worth it for the power gain of the headers

headers dont do anything, its the o2 sensors that need to be working

Right - headers will have a potential gain of 8-15 hp - and move the torque curve a little. The PCM has enough logic to adjust for that small amount...

I agree the lack of backpressure causes long-term damange, and the exhaust side cannot disspate enough heat...

Just as an FYI - the 2005+ Mustang - they attempted to re-use the DEW98 chassis (Lincoln LS) but could not get the cost model down to where they needed it for the Mustang price point, and therefore only the floorpan design ever made it into the Mustang. The 3.9L heads are infact use much small port spacing and the mod motor bolt-ons will not fit... yeah for us,..

1.The problems is that the computers logic is the add fuel and pull timing. Many people agree that tuning is a great performance Mod for the LS so the person getting the headers should later dyno tune it and report back. I bet there's a lot to be had from tuning with the headers.

2. Yea, burned valves :mad:

3. The funny part is that it ended up costing ford $100 more per car to use a live axle then it would have been to keep the independent rear suspension.

I bet there's a lot to be had from tuning with the headers.

do you have experience here?

The mustang crowd is getting dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed, then add headers, then dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed....

they are only seeing 5-8hp with shorties ans 8-13hp with longs

I posted a pic at the very beginning of this thread

I meant on the StainlessWorks website. And your pic was very much appreciated.:cool:

they are only seeing 5-8hp with shorties ans 8-13hp with longs

I beg to differ. My friends S197 picked up 22 peak rwhp and around the same for torque IIRC. As far as across the entire RPM range I believe your statement would be more correct. His mods are the JLT CAI, AR LT's, OR X-pipe and Borla Stinger axle backs with a tune. The headers and X-pipe were done together with a before and after dyno, same place, same month, temp might have been substantially different tho, Ill have to ask him.

do you have experience here?

The mustang crowd is getting dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed, then add headers, then dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed....

they are only seeing 5-8hp with shorties ans 8-13hp with longs

Were those box tunes, or dyno tunes? Like I said, every header and car is different so box tunes won't be that great.

Were those box tunes, or dyno tunes? Like I said, every header and car is different so box tunes won't be that great.

EXACTLY! Thats why I havent gone with tunes from ILLS or Torrie, way too many variables, thats why NYC's LS got slower from one of their tunes, not dogging them or anything but canned tunes are pretty much garbage.

EXACTLY! Thats why I havent gone with tunes from ILLS or Torrie, way too many variables, thats why NYC's LS got slower from one of their tunes, not dogging them or anything but canned tunes are pretty much garbage.

NYC's srt8 is a great example of what great tuning can do, especially when combined with other mods. He doesn't have headers tho but the same principals apply that tuning should be done on the dyno and for that specific vehicle and mods.

Do you have actual experience with headers?

EXACTLY! Thats why I havent gone with tunes from ILLS or Torrie, way too many variables, thats why NYC's LS got slower from one of their tunes, not dogging them or anything but canned tunes are pretty much garbage.

I beg to differ. TYPICALLY id agree, but I'll put my ILLS tune against your tune any day!

I beg to differ. My friends S197 picked up 22 peak rwhp and around the same for torque IIRC. As far as across the entire RPM range I believe your statement would be more correct. His mods are the JLT CAI, AR LT's, OR X-pipe and Borla Stinger axle backs with a tune. The headers and X-pipe were done together with a before and after dyno, same place, same month, temp might have been substantially different tho, Ill have to ask him.

Usually when you see numbers like that it's a combination of headers, x-pipe, cat delete, re-worked exhaust piping, mufflers, ...etc - since a lot of the time you have to re-work the entire exhaust to fit the headers...

Do you have actual experience with headers?

I have first hand experience with carbureted engines. I have second hand knowledge with efi engine.

I beg to differ. TYPICALLY id agree, but I'll put my ILLS tune against your tune any day!

I believe his tune to be stock, so you're probably right.

BUT, when I get to dyno tuning I'll take that bet. I'll buy ILLS tune then dyno tune and post the results. If the dyno tune puts out more power then you'll pay me back double the costs of ILLS tunes and if I loss then I'll pay you the cost of ILLS tunes.

Deal?

I have first hand experience with carbureted engines. I have second hand knowledge with efi engine.

so when you say "tuning is a MUST" and "there is a lot to be had from headers"... where are these statements coming from?

What is a lot in your mind?

evidence = proof

I have first hand experience with carbureted engines. I have second hand knowledge with efi engine.



I believe his tune to be stock, so you're probably right.

BUT, when I get to dyno tuning I'll take that bet. I'll buy ILLS tune then dyno tune and post the results. If the dyno tune puts out more power then you'll pay me back double the costs of ILLS tunes and if I loss then I'll pay you the cost of ILLS tunes.

Deal?


lets give it a more fair fight..... put my tune or 02lse...........'s tune from ills against a custom tune on our cars. The unseen half of the ILLS tunes is how they are somewhat tailored to the cars. I do custom tuning (on gm's not fords) and I would be hard pressed to get the tranny tune as good as ILLS's and his AFR's on my car are table flat. Yes there is a lot to be said for custom tuning, but with canned tunes as rock solid as his, the need for them on these cars with next to no aftermarket is just not there. Guys like Quik with custom work have a need for it. But for 50 bucks vs 450 first hour plus how ever much each additional hour, ILLS's tune cant be beat.

so when you say "tuning is a MUST" and "there is a lot to be had from headers"... where are these statements coming from?

What is a lot in your mind?

I said: Headers are best with a new tune for them. IMO a tune is a MUST have with headers. IMO.

there's a lot to be had from tuning with the headers.

Let's qualify "a lot" as say you get 8hp from just headers not tuned for headers then you'd get somewhere around 8 more with a proper dyno tune for a 16ish HP gain. That would be an example.

evidence = proof

Evidence is not equal to proof, it is merely a partial attempt at proving something. Evidence often leads to false conclusions. That's why I keep saying that this is all specific to each vehicle and the mods to them. No two are identical.

lets give it a more fair fight..... put my tune or 02lse...........'s tune from ills against a custom tune on our cars. The unseen half of the ILLS tunes is how they are somewhat tailored to the cars. I do custom tuning (on gm's not fords) and I would be hard pressed to get the tranny tune as good as ILLS's and his AFR's on my car are table flat. Yes there is a lot to be said for custom tuning, but with canned tunes as rock solid as his, the need for them on these cars with next to no aftermarket is just not there. Guys like Quik with custom work have a need for it. But for 50 bucks vs 450 first hour plus how ever much each additional hour, ILLS's tune cant be beat.

Right, a dyno tune wouldn't help with the automatic transmission, but my LS is not a automatic. Plus we are talking about tuning for applications with headers, which ILLS may not have ever tuned for so wouldn't have the specific experience. I'm not saying ILLS tunes are bad, don't make that mistake. I haven't talked to ILLS(seems hard to get a hold of) but I have talked to torrie and he wanted $150, minimum. $450 is the most I've heard of for starting a dyno tune, but there's several in my area so competition must be driving prices down.

A member on a ford fusion site had a Steeda intake and a Steeda 91 tune. He had his car dyno tuned and picked up another 17HP. Steeda is a very reputable company with Ford products.

no two are identical but you can't argue a point without showing data of change. If anything the header might feel like a performance gain even when it's not and maybe you're getting a bigger sound due to the more open headers. But if anything it COULD BE a placebo affect to which the mind feels like there's a gain but lets face it. I've had times when I didn't drive my car for a week and when I got it back and drove it....it felt hella fast and powerful. You have to realize our bodies are used to muscle memory and that driving at the same pace/speed is what we are accustom to. To which a simple change in anything might make us feel either "powerful" or "deminished". For instance I felt like my intake tube gave my engine a lot more power but in actuality it's just the fact it's a more open sound giving the effect of it being more powerful :P

Thats sounds like an interested waiger.Is ILLS even doing tunes still? I thought he was to busy right now.

I beg to differ. TYPICALLY id agree, but I'll put my ILLS tune against your tune any day!

Factory tune home boy and Im gonna go 13's with it.










hopefully

no two are identical but you can't argue a point without showing data of change. If anything the header might feel like a performance gain even when it's not and maybe you're getting a bigger sound due to the more open headers. But if anything it COULD BE a placebo affect to which the mind feels like there's a gain but lets face it. I've had times when I didn't drive my car for a week and when I got it back and drove it....it felt hella fast and powerful. You have to realize our bodies are used to muscle memory and that driving at the same pace/speed is what we are accustom to. To which a simple change in anything might make us feel either "powerful" or "deminished". For instance I felt like my intake tube gave my engine a lot more power but in actuality it's just the fact it's a more open sound giving the effect of it being more powerful :P

You are absolutely right. That's why the butt dyno is a bad one. People get tricked who have throttle-by-wire setups because tuners often use a snap-spring affect that makes people think it has more power when it doesn't. Same goes for intake and exhaust, people mistake the loudness for speed.


Thats sounds like an interested waiger.Is ILLS even doing tunes still? I thought he was to busy right now.

That's why I said he's hard to get a hold of and that torrie wants $150. I don't want to spend that much if I'm just going to get a dyno tune later. If he would do one tune for $50 then I'd give it a try.

ILet's qualify "a lot" as say you get 8hp from just headers not tuned for headers then you'd get somewhere around 8 more with a proper dyno tune for a 16ish HP gain. That would be an example.
You adding up the changes....

a standard stock LS gains about 14 - 19 rwhp with a tune.

as I stated above,
The mustang crowd is getting dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed, then add headers, then dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed....

they are only seeing 5-8hp with shorties ans 8-13hp with longs

they saw only minimal improvements (similar to cat-back or air filter) with the addition of headers.

Are you recommending that people also get re-tuned for a cat-back or air filter?

You adding up the changes....

a standard stock LS gains about 14 - 19 rwhp with a tune.

as I stated above,

The mustang crowd is getting dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed, then add headers, then dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed....

they are only seeing 5-8hp with shorties ans 8-13hp with longs

You never answered if they were dyno tunes. Who gives a sh1t if they dyno all day long, that don't mean anything. We are talking about dyno tuning.

I'm not adding up the changes, you are. Let's make this easier to understand.

Let's say an LS pulled 230 RWHP with a tune only.
With headers and that same tune lets say it made 238 RWHP.
Then tune specfically for the headers "a lot" IMO would add somewhere like 8 more HP making the final RWHP at 246 RWHP. Does this example of hypothetical numbers make more sense?



they saw only minimal improvements (similar to cat-back or air filter) with the addition of headers.

Are you recommending that people also get re-tuned for a cat-back or air filter?

If one were to get a dyno tune(or box tune for that matter) then yes, I'd suggest that one would wait until their other mods as such be completed before hand to get the best tune.

Like I've also keep saying that different cars and headers behave differently. If a tune on a mustang only gets 8 RWHP that doesn't mean that's all you get out of an LS

Are you suggesting that people with power adders don't get tuned? After all, it's just adding more air(and fuel with WET NOS) and the computer should be able to adjust for that.

dude - the point being...

- you have no experience with tuning on these cars. You car is not tuned.
- you have no experience with headers on these cars, nor actual experience with headers on modern EFI cars
- you state things like MUST and ALOT, .. but these are only opinions from the bench.

right?

Do you have experience with headers on these cars? If not, then it would appear that you are also only using opinions from the bench.

Right?

Also, you never answered the question about if the mustangs were tuned for headers or not.

Do you have experience with headers on these cars? If not, then it would appear that you are also only using opinions from the bench.

Right?

Also, you never answered the question about if the mustangs were tuned for headers or not.

I know you are fairly new to the board - I do not mean to ride your sack - I just wanted to you to clarify your strongly worded position.

I in fact have worked on headers for the LS. We spent a week building three different versions of shorties - at the end of it -not enough gains to actually be worth $1000. That combined with the pain to get to them....

not sure what you can't read here
The mustang crowd is getting dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed, then add headers, then dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed....

The headers are run $800+
Re-work the exhuast $300+ to fit them
Replace the stock cats with ones that will fit $500 (or go cat delete?)
Tuning (your recommendation) $150 (if you have a SCT already)

on the conservitive side - this will run $1800+

so when you say "there is a lot to be had from headers" how much is a lot for your $1800+?

+1

See..there's this thread. A long thread; no...a sticky,really, where this sort of thing and a few others is discussed at length. Check it out here. (http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=13357) (WARNING: this is 33 pages long. A lot of good info, though.:D)

Almost forgot, check out the hi-po section (http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forumdisplay.php?f=127) too.

so when you say "there is a lot to be had from headers" how much is a lot for your $1800+?

keep in mind my ills tune got me 24whp, for 50

Oh and my 200 shot of nitrous with added bells and whistles is only around the $700 mark

I just found my twin turbos (sure they are used but still jsut what I need) for $300



and ILLS is on deployment, but I recently bought one of his LS tunes for a friend (just before he left)


Quik would know better but 1800 would probably get you most of the way to his sc kit.

I know you are fairly new to the board - I do not mean to ride your sack - I just wanted to you to clarify your strongly worded position.

I in fact have worked on headers for the LS. We spent a week building three different versions of shorties - at the end of it -not enough gains to actually be worth $1000. That combined with the pain to get to them....

not sure what you can't read here


The headers are run $800+
Re-work the exhuast $300+ to fit them
Replace the stock cats with ones that will fit $500 (or go cat delete?)
Tuning (your recommendation) $150 (if you have a SCT already)

on the conservitive side - this will run $1800+

so when you say "there is a lot to be had from headers" how much is a lot for your $1800+?

Sorry for the late reply, I've been fighting bronchitis, just moved(have my garage now :D), had to clear the garage and finally have the car up and the transmission out, but anyway...

Yea, I had read your posts, but in one thread you said you visited shops, they said it wasn't worth it. Then another thread, you worked trying out headers for a weekend, now it's a week. If you built headers for the LS then why didn't you use them, even if they didn't provide much of a gain? That's really a mute point because I've been talking about DYNO TUNING for headers anyway. Not talking a cost, or other more cost effective was to make power. Good job answering your own questions though.


and ILLS is on deployment, but I recently bought one of his LS tunes for a friend (just before he left)

Quik would know better but 1800 would probably get you most of the way to his sc kit.

If ILLS tunes are only $50 then that would be worth a try. $50 is much easier to swallow then $150 as I just can't see spending $150 for tunes when I'm going to get a dyno tune someday anyway. And yes, I already had an Xcal2 from another Ford I own and tune. So I'll be pleased to try out one of ILLS tunes if someone would let me know when he get's back.

With the SC kit, $1800 won't quite get you half way. It's $4k, but it's missing quite a few things that you'd need to buy extra and/or source yourself.

Just thought I'd add this for anyone who might be interested. Enjoy.:rolleyes:

how much are those bad boys?

somewhere between 800-1200 IIRC.

Are they yours or you came across them?

So how are they improved over stock, bigger pipess, smoother design for air flow? The shop I did my exhaust at was doing some for a customer while I was there. Might go ask how much they do them for.

BTW, I am pretty sure those are not LS headers.

That's the pic they put up @ Stainless Works for 02-05 Thunderbird. I don't have them, but I might get them some day from here (http://www.byunspeed.com/advanced_search_result.php?search_in_description=1&keywords=2002-2005+Thunderbird&x=14&y=4). Better prices.

That's the pic they put up @ Stainless Works for 02-05 Thunderbird. I don't have them, but I might get them some day from here (http://www.byunspeed.com/advanced_search_result.php?search_in_description=1&keywords=2002-2005+Thunderbird&x=14&y=4). Better prices.

Panthro?

Good job on the link to Byunspeed, I kept thinking it was Brenspeed for some reason.

I try, I try.:D

Some day Ill get them.. :(

Im getting them.. I dont care what any of you have to say, Im gettting them, they are my next mod..

:shifty:


:D

Ive decided I need to tune first.

hows it going Linc'? you got your LS runnin out there in Conn yet?

hows it going Linc'? you got your LS runnin out there in Conn yet?

Yea man, I was out in Providence the other day. Cruised out on RT6

Yea man, I was out in Providence the other day. Cruised out on RT6

awesome, im just finishing up within the week, hope to get a few LS's together soon