Car just failed emissions-
its running just a bit rich-VERY VERY RICH.

Replaced head gasket a month ago.
So while i had top end off-i figure change out the 17 yr old fuel injectors with a set of 24 lb'ers.

I have a 190 lph fuel pump out back (dont know if that matters)

So is my stock computer recognizing the different size injectors?

Also I have changed out the TPS-EGR+sensor- and new IAC.
Car still does not idle perfect-bit of a shudder to it-almost like plugs are fouling. It will start idling up and down couple hundred rpms between-600--750...

Getting ready to drop in OEM motorcraft plugs and yank the BOSCH PLATINUM PLUS 2's that are in there. (I dont even know if the plus 2's are good for the 5.0 engine)

~shakes head~

You need to tell the computer about the bigger injectors with a tune.

Edit: I just noticed it's a Mark VII, not VIII. Dunno, though I still think a tune would be required to tell the puter about the new injectors.

next answer please-car runnin rough-sucks up gas more than ever-what exactly is going on now that the 24 lb'ers are in? What does the computer think-or what is the computer doing? Is the rich issue most likely do to injectors.

DONT RESPOND TO COMMENT-RESPOND TO ASSIST IF AND ONLY IF YOU UNDERSTAND. NO GUESSING OK-NO OPPINIONS. JUST a simple answer please

...DONT RESPOND TO COMMENT-RESPOND TO ASSIST IF AND ONLY IF YOU UNDERSTAND. NO GUESSING OK-NO OPPINIONS. JUST a simple answer please

OK.

Some people shouldn't be allowed under the hood of a car...

Oooops... was that a comment?

Lose the attitude, skippy. You could have had all of your answers (especially from Mr. Old School), but it seems even he's staying away from helping you.

For your sake, I hope he helps you out.

As far as to why you're running rich, any pinhead should understand that if the computer is programmed for xx amount injector and you change to a larger flow injector, the new injector will spray more fuel than the old injector when it's pulsed open for the same time the old injector was.

Ok. I'm done with the comments... maybe.

listen my dude-
i just want an answer-
got 24's in there now-i just want to know what exactly the computer is doing with them comparted to the 19's-

and if you have to ask if mark 7's are speed density than i must say you are the pinhead in the wrong forum-own one or know one-at least enough to know what system that one has.



i swapped out 17 yr old injectors with a set of new ones (24's) thought i was doing more help than harm... car runs-and i thought the concept would apply that applied to the BIGGER FUEL PUMP.
IT WILL ONLY PUMP WHAT IT NEEDS-so you cant go to big.
I THOUGHT THE INJECTOR WOULD SPRAY JUST WHAT IT NEEDS also-same concept....

and it runs-it runs very smooth after tps and all that jive has been replaced.

Yanked the spark plugs yesterday-just to see if there were any tell tail signs of SH*T going on in there..

..
and..
the plug on the drivers side-closest to front bumper-had just a LITTLE BIT OF OIL IT SEEMED like-just about halfway up the thread.

I ordered an O2 sensor on THURSDAY-after installing egr-tps and iac.


AS OF RIGHT NOW ------NO CODES EXCEPT THE AIR CODE that references the air pump being removed from up front-SO ITS NORMAL FOR MY SET UP

listen my dude-

Let's get something straight here. I am NOT your dude. Never have been, never will be. So stop asking.



i just want an answer-

You already have your answer, but me thinks you're too damned thick headed to comprehend it... or you're really slow. Either way, no skin off my back.


got 24's in there now-i just want to know what exactly the computer is doing with them comparted to the 19's-

If you can't figure out what's happening from my reply in another post, then I don't know how else to explain it to you. Unfortunately, I can't Crayola use Crayons and drawing paper (which you might understand, it seems), to explain it to you.


and if you have to ask if mark 7's are speed density than i must say you are the pinhead in the wrong forum-own one or know one-at least enough to know what system that one has.

What? Could you please write that in a semi-legible format? I haven't owned a Mark VII since 1991.

As far as knowing a pinhead... I wouldn't call it "knowing" him, but I am replying to one of his posts. Guess who that pinhead is?



i swapped out 17 yr old injectors with a set of new ones (24's) thought i was doing more help than harm... car runs-and i thought the concept would apply that applied to the BIGGER FUEL PUMP.

At least I have do double check if the Mark VII is Speed Density. Apparently, you knew that and still installed bigger injectors on the motor without changing the tune. so who's the idiot, again?


IT WILL ONLY PUMP WHAT IT NEEDS-so you cant go to big.

Chuckle. Ok, Skippy. You keep telling people that. Just don't be surprised when they chuckle at you. Obviously, you have no clue how Speed Density works.


I THOUGHT THE INJECTOR WOULD SPRAY JUST WHAT IT NEEDS also-same concept....

You thought wrong.


and it runs-it runs very smooth after tps and all that jive has been replaced.


Sure it does. :rolleyes:


Yanked the spark plugs yesterday-just to see if there were any tell tail signs of SH*T going on in there..

Tell tale signs of chit going on in there? Lots of stuff goes on it "there". Most of it, I believe you'd have no clue about by reading a spark plug.



the plug on the drivers side-closest to front bumper-had just a LITTLE BIT OF OIL IT SEEMED like-just about halfway up the thread.

Seemed like oil? As opposed to... sand?


AS OF RIGHT NOW ------NO CODES EXCEPT THE AIR CODE that references the air pump being removed from up front-SO ITS NORMAL FOR MY SET UP

Good for you. Get back to us when you need to replace parts because you're running way too rich.

Why don't you just run the right injector for your set up. Also I'm not sure how you can read a spark plug half way up on the threads unless your checking for cross thread. Good luck.

READ THE POSTS

jesus christ-
i had NEW INJECTORS on MY SHELF- THEY WERE 24 LB SIZE
I had to do headgasket.
SO...
I thought that similar in nature to putting a larger fuel pump-which i have had now for months (NO PROBLEMS-GREAT).....
....that the fuel pump theory (or am i wrong-because it seems to be working pretty friggin good in my mark) is that it will ONLY PUMP THE AMOUNT OF GAS NEEDED.

-so I HAD the choice of putting back in the "17 year old injectors-that were working fine" when i removed the top end for the head gasket..
or....
i had the choice of using the new 24'ers that I thought would spray according to 19 lb specs, as the computer asks it to do so because it is programed for 19 lb injectors right...


so i suppose like the fuel pump-pumping only enough...with the ability to pump more if you are running a larger pump...
..
THE INJECTORS DO NOT WORK LIKE THE FUEL PUMP.

Im putting the old ones back in- unless i find a deal on a set of new ones.

JESUS CHRIST

Car just failed emissions-
its running just a bit rich-VERY VERY RICH.

So is my stock computer recognizing the different size injectors?

NOPE

what exactly is going on now that the 24 lb'ers are in?

Your PCM thinks it has the stock injectors and has the pulsewidth and other parameters completely SCREWED UP.

Put the CORRECT injectors back on the car.

Lose the attitude, skippy.


As far as to why you're running rich, any pinhead should understand that if the computer is programmed for xx amount injector and you change to a larger flow injector, the new injector will spray more fuel than the old injector when it's pulsed open for the same time the old injector was.



both statements ring true and are 100% correct.
your injectors are WRONG, and so is your attitude.

listen my dude-
i just want an answer-
i just want to know what exactly the computer is doing with them comparted to the 19's-

I could type verbatim what is WRONG, but it wouldn't matter unless you have a GOOD knowledge of Ford EFI control systems.

Tell me what "injector pulsewidth" is and what it does.
Tell me what "injector offset" is and what it does.
Tell me what "injector compenstator vs battery voltage" is and what it does".
you'll also need to know what "injector enrichment when hot" IS and does.

Then you need to know how "Injector delay" and "injector timing" IS and Does.


Then.. after you've eductated yourself with the above.
Then you get to dive into the actual problem areas, BUT without knowing what the "above" mentioned items are the actual values for the below will never be understood.
"fuel injector break point"
"fuel injector high slope"
"fuel injector low slope"
and the ever so important "fuel injector MINIMUM pulsewidth".

Get your homework done and get back to me with what the actual problem IS.

IF you figure out ALL of the above, then your question will answer itself.

Class dismissed until the original poster educates himself with the finer points of Ford Fuel Injection.

(tosses the babyfood spoon on the table)

listen my dude-




i [b]thought[\b] the concept would apply that applied to the BIGGER FUEL PUMP.

IT WILL ONLY PUMP WHAT IT NEEDS-[b]so you cant go to big.[\b]

[b]I THOUGHT THE INJECTOR WOULD SPRAY JUST WHAT IT NEEDS also-same concept....[\b]


anked the spark plugs yesterday-just to see if there were any tell tail signs of SH*T going on in there..


ALL the items marked in BOLD are wrong wrong wrong.

IF your PCM was calibrated for the new injectors, then it would "almost" be true... the rest of your "thoughts" are way way off base and totally incorrect.

Education, go buy Greg Branish's book "Advanced Engine Management".
read read read.

Why don't you just run the right injector for your set up. Also I'm not sure how you can read a spark plug half way up on the threads unless your checking for cross thread. Good luck.

READ THE POSTS

Both these statements are 100% SPOT ON!

he cannot read a plug in the manner you are suggesting...and.. hereally should put the "correct" injectors back in the car.

Oh yea.. "READ THE POSTS" +100 FTW

....steers and queers come from texas?

I heard that somewhere....I think....

So I am gonna drop by old injectors back in
-I think thats what you are saying
- cant quite understand the way you texans type-but than again..

I CANT QUITE UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS THAT TEXAS LOVES THAT BUSH CHARACTER SO MUCH EITHER?

so thanks for all the effort with the above statements...
..next time put a little more "effort" into who you are voting in as PRESIDENT.

Dude...

The guy helps you out and you dis him?

Typical Liberal...

Dude...

The guy helps you out and you dis him?

Typical Liberal...


what a fuggin t00lbag...huh?

This is the best forum ever.

I am changing out injectors.

thanks from all of you for all of you much needed help.

i am still lost-but just a bit less lost.


THANKS MEMBERS-even the texan ones

This is the best forum ever.

It would be even better without toolbags like you hanging around.


I am changing out injectors.

Smartest thing you've said... ever.


thanks from all of you for all of you much needed help.

You sure have a funny way of thanking people, what with calling them gay.


i am still lost-but just a bit less lost.

Dude, you couldn't find your way out of a wet paper bag. To call you "lost" would be the understatement of the century.



THANKS MEMBERS-even the texan ones

Right. Nice try at redemption.

And incidentally, I'm not a boy. I have a yard of Dick, a bucket full of balls and enough hair on my ass to weave an indian blanket. Who you callin' boy?... boy?

Do society a favor. Remove yourself from the gene pool. ASAP.

just hop on back to that swamp u swam out of.

enough is enough.
silly internet tough guy.

u just dont scare me.

(chuckle chuckle)



I used u like a condom.
got what i needed...
and now im tossin u away.

thanks for the insight.
ur quite the insightful one.

just hop on back to that swamp u swam out of.

At least I wasn't lost enough to not be able to crawl out of the swamp. You, would still be looking for the muddy waters, you're that big of a moron.


enough is enough.
silly internet tough guy.


Enough is enough? For what?

Internet tough guy. Hah! Just because I made you look like a total idiot, I'm an internet tough guy? Seriously? Stop making me laugh so hard.



u just dont scare me.



And you're a lazy idiot. Is it really that hard to type "you"? As far as scaring you... I wouldn't even waste my time to say "booo" to you. I'd rather be scratching my ass. At least that would be a little more productive use of my time.


(chuckle chuckle)



I don't even know what to say to that...


I used u like a condom.
got what i needed...
and now im tossin u away.


Remember those words. You may think they are funny now, but they won't be so funny next time you need help from us "condoms". The internet has a long, hard memory. This one will come to bite you in the ass.



thanks for the insight.
ur quite the insightful one.


I may be insightful, but you're just down right moronic. At least I don't put in oversized injectors on a Speed Density setup without changing the computer tune.

I shudder to think what else you may have done to your jalopy.

Hey markus we were joking with you I think you need 30 lbs injections. Your probly not getting enough fuel with that huge 190 fuel pump. You were right the computer will figure it all out. To think people make a living on tuning cars for aftermarket parts. What a joke all those suckers out there.
OO yeah congras on busting your cherry after all those year you finally got to use a rubber.

I don't think he knows how to use a rubber. Sure, he knows about them, but that's about the extent of his experience with them.

Markus, I don't say this to too many people, but IMHO?... your momma shoulda' swallowed you.

lets get off mothers..
cuz i just got off of yours

I'm wasting my time on someone with 3rd grade comebacks. Typical Lib. Go pray to Obama or something.

Just trying to keep it at a level you will understand boy.

Just trying to keep it at a level you will understand boy.

If you're doing that, I ask that you type slowly and clearly, for you see, unlike you, I'm not fluent in IDIOT.

I will keep it @2nd grade level...


Aren't the red states the ones with people of lower intel.

Is your swamp in a red state?

Lower intel? You tell me, since the red states by majority are the producing states, while the blue ones seem to be the looting, bankrupt states.

Maybe we're not smart enough to work the system and live off other taxpayers like you all.

Bottom line-
red state-lower intel.
NO EXCUSES.
JUST FACT.

No opinion of mine either-just an observed fact about those silly Red states.

Its my turn to teach you something Frog Boy:

The united states imports far more than it exports because the quality product by all those producing, RED STATES AS YOU PUT IT, have dropped greatly and on a steady basis over the last 50 years.

Also-those "BUSH STATES" voted in- and than REVOTED IN-because sometimes RED STATES just lack the intel. to learn from their mistakes- that Bush character.

Funny how on a National Scale-that guy that "y'all" voted in twice was disliked in the long run, in the polls, on a larger scale than any other president in HISTORY. But those silly blue states tried tellin "y'all" but y'all just didn't listen.

America is bankrupt on a larger scale than ever because of a "spend it all" war funded by the god of RED STATES. Business's were fine until RED STATES FLEXED THEIR EDUCATED CHOICE FOR PRESIDENT-not once but twice.

:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

If you want to talk politics, there is a forum for it. Unfortunately, you're not man enough to go there.

Either way, I'm done with you and your BS.

I am truly sorry about all my comments in these forums discussing my 24 lb injectors. I have been rude and have been reminded of this by an "OLD DUDE"-im sure you all know the member Im referring to. ;)

*So-I apologize for lowering myself to a 3rd grade maturity. I have been a member here for a bit over the year mark now and never acted like this in the past discussions.
My lack of knowledge relating to mk7's-and being pointed out about it by so many members-gives me no right to start disrespecting individuals who have positively participated in so many valuable conversations.

This site is a wealth of information and Im sorry for flexing my lack or respect and childish behavior.

No excuse for behavior-just extremely frustrated with my idiotic choice of injector. NO EXCUSE-JUST A REASON.

Sorry to FROGMAN- you deserve better.

The next time you get pissed off, go kick a Cadillac ... err ... I mean a Chevy.

There is a guy who has run larger injectors on his SD:

http://mustangforums.com/forum/speed-density-carb-ssp-section/514658-how-far-can-sd-really-go.html

Of course passing emissions may be difficult.

Regarding the political comments about our former president I believe HISTORY will determine whether he was a good president...not the polls and certainly not CNN (sorry couldn't contain myself). Let's show some respect for the office no matter how qualified our commmander in chief is/was.

Mechanic has had injectors for over three weeks-claiming his "injector guy" is stalling. His "injector guy" has stated that he wanted to put injectors on bench and make sure pulsewidth ect. is accurate, does that sound right, because thats the smoke that was blown my way.

So before the injectors (19 lb motorcrafts) go back in-we will know they are all good and up to par.

However-I priced out new injectors by motorcraft-they run between 80-110 per injector. I dont have the cash to get 8 by ford motorcraft...
so...
I found the 19 lb injectors by ford racing for a reasonable price of 230 for a set of 8.
I am just wondering and asking in advance- before I screw up all over again....
Will the 19 lb ford racing injectors work smoothly without drivability issues?
Are the 19 lb'ers by ford racing within the same specs as ford motorcrafts stock oem injectors?

THANK YOU :eek:

You will be fine with the ford racing injectors. Get it fixed already!

You will be fine with the ford racing injectors. Get it fixed already!

thanks man.
much appreciated.
my concerns about using the ford racing ones-was because on many of the sites selling them say these are not rec. for stock cars-but rather vehicles with modifications done.

i really dont want to have history repeat itself.
im just about to order the injectors-appreciate your imput and any thing else you might think of.
thanks

so i just got off the phone with "ford racing" whom i contacted directly in regards to-
installing FORD RACING 19lb fuel injector (part # M-9593-C302) on STOCK 5.0 HO engine found in my 1991 Lincoln Mark VII. I want to save money and not have drivability issues by purchasing the set of 8 injectors for $220.00 from ford racing-as opposed to, close to $100.00 per 19 lb injector from ford motorcraft.

ford racing rep stated-
the calibration for part # M-9593-C302, exactly matches the 19 lb injector that motorcraft puts into 91 mk7s. You will suffer no drivability issues-this is a motorcraft 19 injector with a ford racing box.
(in more words or less, that is what he said)

Here is a link for the calibration summary of ford racing's 19 injector:
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/ics/m-9593-c302.pdf

I can not find the calibration summary for the motorcraft fuel injector-im sure its out there

I don't know if all the ford racing parts are just motorcraft with ford racing logos- but in the above case with the injector example- ford racing states they have exact matching calibrations.

So I am ordering a set of 8 injectors from ford racing for about 28 bucks an injector as opposed to motorcraft for 100 bucks per.

I will update after install-hopefully next week or two.

You'll be fine. Hell if the 24 LBS injectors didn't bother you why so picky on the right ones. You could even buy some after market 19 LBS injectors the same style. I thought motorcraft was ford? Thats what they sell in their repair shops, thats why their so expensive.

flat spots-bad idle-i feel like i have lost mpg-
all reasons for taking out the 24's.
charts show that 19's are correct for the hp/torque rating coming from my aplication (stock 5.0 engine)

and how can i possibly be getting maximum performance from my ride when my computer is programmed for the 19's? I am definately loosing performance overall.

Placed order for ford racing set of 8 few minutes ago

If Ford Racing offers an exchange on these items then it's a win/win situation.

Try it.

....ford racing 19 lb injectors are in.
my car def. has less of a rough idle-(but it still has a funny idle almost like a shudder to it)
still has flat spots-seems like less.

Car is running better-but still not one hundred percent.

There is still something very wrong.

NO CODES-
ROUGH IDLE.
FLAT SPOTS.

Fuel pressure is accurate.
no vac. leaks.
injectors are brand new.
new tps
new egr and sensor
new IAC
the intake has no clogs and is clean.

Driving along @ say 55 mph and it almost hickups here and there.
like it coughs almost and slips from a steady idle.


Somebody suggested that even though there are no codes for O2 Sensors-that possibly I should change out the 17yr old ones-with a new set.
I thought if an O2 sensor is not within a certain range it will set off a CHECK LIGHT-and spit out code.
In the mustang forums people have had idle issues similar to mine with no codes either-the success has come with new O2 sensors...
and...
or...
drilling small hole in the throttle body opening. ????? hmmm ( i thought this was an old hot rod trick to helping make rough idle with aftermarket cams a bit smoother.... idk)

totally lost

I just ordered new O2 sensors:
no codes, but after 17 years it cant hurt.

Fact or False:
Can O2 readings/measurements be off and not set off a check engine light or code?

So, is it possible that my super old sensors need replacement?

Either or-it cant hurt as preventative maint. right???

I just ordered new O2 sensors:
no codes, but after 17 years it cant hurt.

Fact or False:
Can O2 readings/measurements be off and not set off a check engine light or code?Yup.

So, is it possible that my super old sensors need replacement?Yup.

Either or-it cant hurt as preventative maint. right???Yup.

Have you kicked a Chevy yet? I've found it to be very therapeutic when my Lincoln problems become overwhelming.

I received-just a few days ago-my o2 sensors from Rockauto.com (great site that seems to have parts for less than many other distributors)

Have not put them in yet-waiting for reply from Rockauto in regards to email I sent with concerns over sensors I received.

The O2 sensors sport the BOSCH insignia rather than the Motorcraft logo. They came in Motorcraft boxing.

The Bosch sensors run at least 20-30 bucks less (depending on web site) than motorcraft sensors.

So I am thinking I might have paid 20-30 bucks for the motorcraft box alone-close to a 60 dollar lesson.

Still waiting for response-sensors are going in one way or another-bosch or motorcraft@#$%^&*^%$#@#$%^&^%$#@


So fact or fiction in regards to O2 sensors setting off check engine light.....
Does the sensor just detect correct voltage going to it.....
or the sensor will actually set off the check engine light if it detects inaccurate levels of emission?????

Simply put...

The O2 Sensors that are considered Motorcraft (with ford and Bosch logo) were installed yesterday-ALL DRIVABILITY ISSUES CORRECTED.
In fact.
IN FACT..... my mark has never run so smooth with such a great idle.
I am shocked at this entire experience.
Only codes my car originally spit was for IAC.
Never an O2 code via check engine light.

So lesson(s) learned is as follows:

1.)

Ford subcontracts something like 90% of their electronics to Aftermarket companies-mainly being Bosch.
So-if you replace sensors down the road, please be advised that to save money and have in reality-the same part- just buy Bosch O2 sensors and save the 20-30 bucks per sensor.

2.)

If vehicle:
-stutters upon acceleration
-has flat spots
-gets bad gas mileage
-idles poorly
-DOESN'T need a CHECK ENGINE LIGHT to verify the sensors are shot-my sensors were shot, with no codes what so ever.


....... possibly your fix will be to change your 02 sensors. I also found out it is suggested to change O2 sensors every 50k miles or so.

My car has never run so smooth...
It pulls harder than ever.
Everything is just working so much better.
Night and day DIFFERENCE.
WOW.


It is amazing-just amazing.

so car ran well for a few drive cycles (i still have not disconnected battery)

But now its running bad again.
NOT AS BAD-but just rough idle-flat spots and hickups.

I just installed new Coolant temp sensor-

I also installed a new ACT sensor (air charge temp.)
When i removed the old ACT-i saw it was all gunked up covered in black sludge- DEF. the original Motorcraft ACT.

Any new ideas-i still have not done the Compression test-because I need help doing that.

Still no codes.
Still a headache.
Still a lack of smoothness.

What is the rough idle. Is it bouncing or steady rough. What rpm is it idleing at.

Mine used to "buck" at part throttle when the fuel pressure was too low. Do you have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator on the car?

When i say "car runs rough" .... the following is a list of specifics:


Car idles at around 700 rpm-
it has a constant shudder to it-you can hear it almost hickup every 2-3 seconds. When this "hickup occurs" the idle drops and rises again 50-100 rpms.

Under very slight gas_when in drive on a hill for example- its not a smooth opening of the throttle like the first couple hundred rpms or so have a rough shudder and not smooth.

I DO NOT HAVE AN ADJUSTABLE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR-
fuel pressure was on the money when checked after install of 8 new injectors about a month ago.



*note-that when I go around a turn or go into a turn and try to give it WOT-it almost wants to die at first sometimes or will pull at say 60 percent-and than once the car is straigtened out again, a second or two later-its as if it steps up a notch to 100 percent pulling power.
VERY VERY WEIRD.




had a 190 fuel pump put in 6 months ago. with the correct sock on it for a lincoln mark vii-not a mustang.
I used to have the problem that when it got to 1/4 tank or less on hills-my car would have fuel starvation issues and want to die almost until the car levels out again.
I thought this issue was from having the wrong size sock-so i replaced the sock with the new pump assembly and I began having no issues driving under a 1/4 of a tank.
NOW THAT PROBLEM IS BACK AND I HAVE NO CLUE WHY-
it is as if.... the same issue prior to the new fuel pump is back.
the exact issue.
what gives?


thanks guys

Don't know whats up but I would make sure the plug wires are run right. Double check this both direction and HO firing order. Its happen to me in the past truck ran and drove but not real good. What dou know the wires where run wrong to two plugs.

I'm not gonna try and go through this whole thread and find if it's been posted, so...is the vacuum hose to the MAP sensor on the firewall hooked up to it? If it is, are you sure there are no cracks in the hose?

the firing order is correct.
I have tripple checked this in past few months.


The map sensor is new.
Hose has no cracks.

There are NO vac leaks.

My 87 was possessed like that, too. Never did figure it out before blowing it up.

It would be nice if I could keep the car from blowing up man.
I suppose that is my long term goal-keep it from exploding.
;)

I have been in mustang forums- still on here trying too.

Next step is running some sea foam through it-or another cleaner of some sort.
I am sure that after seeing what my ACT sensor looked like-its prbly "tell tale" signs that my valves are pretty built up with crud.

Looking back at all the sensors and valves I have replaced...
shame on me for not taking the advice I see all over this forum, (i.e oldschool) and running some SEA FOAM thru this S.O.B.

I have considered engine flushes, but I fear leaks will follow after flushing the life out of my 5.0.

shrug

sea foam standby...

The following is a recent post-does this make sense?



Is your evap system venting correctly? I recently read an article where they were chasing a similar problem and it turned out the Evap system was plugging up thus starving the car either at idle, around corners (fuel sloshing into vent hole in tank) and at WOT where you end up with a vacuum in your tank that makes the pump work harder.... Try driving with the gas cap off for a drive cycle or two. Granted you may kick on a light for the cap but if everything gets better, check your evap system.

I'm not totally up to to 91 cars so I may be talkin out my arse on this one. The car that was in the article was a 2002 or a 2003 ford (OBDII)

When the gas cap(which is also the vent) gets clogged, on my dads john deer lawn mower the motor starves and stalls. The fuel tank will partially collapes. Leaving the cap alittle loose or replace it and it works fine. Did you try the cap off trick.

So i plan on removing the gas cap and driving for a bit when i get out of the studio tonight.
I just got that post in the mustangforums a few min. ago.
I currently have a new gas cap on there-brand new because I was rocked and left it at some gas station in jersey.

Is there any other components other than the cap in the EVAP SYstem that could be messing up.
I know nothing about this evap stuff-i never heard of it till now.

Shrug some more.

Cars MPG has dropped significantly and I feel like it has gradually gotten worst.

I used to get 22.8 or 23.8 mpg on the highway.
I am in the range of 16-18 mpg now on highway.

Have you pulled codes?

code 11 for system pass.
and the code relating to the smog pump removal. (i cant remember the number)

Took gas cap off last nite and tried driving-NO CHANGE IN ISSUES.

Ordered a container of SEAFOAM last nite-arrives in a week.

I really am about to go crazy.

What else can I throw at this SOB:
I have done:

ACT Sensor
Coolant Temp Sensor
TPS
EGR
IAC
8 ford racing injectors
cap rotor wires plugs(motorcraft)
alternator
voltage regulator
battery
map sensor
replaced many vac lines
fuel filter
fuel pump 190lph
new fuel tank
both o2 sensors
rebuilt rear with 355's
rebuilt trans with shift kit
cold air intake-fenderwall
kybs all around
air bags out back replaced
head gasket
fan clutch
new radiator hoses
new thermostat
new water pump
rotors- pads and calibers
new brake lines
sway bar linkage
bushings all over.
two front lower control arms.
ball joints

I was going over the ignition system again...
and i noticed a vibration from two spark plugs through the wire attached.
They were loose.
My fault.
I tightened them.
I also pulled the two loose ones and few random others-
they all looked good.

Usteady idle still exists.

I ran a 1/3 can of seafoam in gas tank.
I put 1/3 can in crank case.
(i did not put a 1/3 can in vac line)
Drove the car around with high rpm's for at least 80 plus miles today-
I mite drain the oil tom. or I mite run it for a bit longer.
I feel like the car is running smoother but still all problems occuring with the unsteady idle-just slight hickup still and stumbles here and there while driving.

few days after sea foaming.
no difference.

I notice the car runs more sluggish after it warms up.

still has all the same issues.

Update-
Car runs without any hesitation-or any flat spots or that funny idle when it is RUN COLD.
As in-not warmed up.

Tried running it cold to see difference instead of waiting for car to warm like i almost always do.

amazing how it as it warms up (with in 5-10 min) it gets sluggish-looses power-starts to idle with that hickup and has the flat spots here and there.
All that is pretty much non existant it seems when the car is cold.

Does that help any more with my code"less" issues.

I NEED HELP.
IF anybody is in NYC TRI STATE AREA and you want a few beers or something or even cash.
let me know.
i need a long term mark vii enthusiast to assist with this.

****I was having a major problem with not being able to fill up past the 3/4 full range in my gas tank. And it would stutter and starve for fuel when below the quarter mark.
I thought possibly that with the weak air bag up front-was causing the gas to sit off balance due to the weak air springs.
So sure enough after doing the install I was able to fill up the tank to the full mark.
It was great.-standby to hear news on wether or not it still slips and starves below a quarter of a tank.


Car still has no codes and it has screwy idle and stumbles sometimes at different points in power band.

car is still starving for fuel under a 1/4 tank
sigh

Some things to check.
Is your TPS set at 0.98vdc when measured between the green and black wires with the key on? If not adjust it by turning the screw under the throttle body. If you can't bring it into range you may need to elongate the holes in the TPS sensor to get it in spec.
Is your engine harness grounded? Somewhere on the drivers rear side of the engine harness under the intake plenum you should be able to locate an orange wire with a lug on it attached to engine ground (not chassis). If this is missing broken or disconnected you will have problems.
Also, I would check to make certain you don't have the O2 sensors hooked up backwards ie left and right. It really confuses the ECM when it doesn't see the proper response after it makes changes to the pulse width of the injector on a given side of the motor. You need to know the wire colors to verify this. I have had this happen to me.
The white and black engine harness connectors pins need to be tightened up. You can use a jewelers screwdrivers set to tweak the pins. See fordfuelinjection.com for more info on this and lots of other good knowledge.
Intake gasket leaking?

After doing anything like this, disconnect the battery and turn your headlight switch on for 30 seconds to clear the computers memory (should).

I'll try and think of some more things to check.

After you ran rich with the 24lbers did you replace the plugs if they were fould out? Just a thought.

I changed out all the silly plat plus 4 bosch plugs out of block after I swapped in the new 19 lb injectors.
I have pulled random plugs since them with zero signs of anything.
TPS voltage has been checked numerous times-A O K

The car ran better after O2 sensor install-but still had hesitation before and after-along with the flat spots before and after. So i dont think the o2's have anything to do with these issues. sigh.

My mechanic suggested to me that I change out the EGR AGAINNNNN- because he claims that the EGR should be Motorcraft and not aftermarket- because of the specific nature of that part- IDK what to think about that.
I am gonna check to see if it is a motorcraft part-i really do not remember.

I am going to check wires anyway like you suggested on the O2's.

This is all A REAL PITA

Just curious what plugs do you have in it and what are they gapped to?
IMO anything fancier than an Autolite Copper 25 plug in a 5.0 is a waste of money and doesn't perform as well. I set the gap to .045.

Installed new motorcraft plugs-
checked the gap and they were all on money @ .050

I dont think the plugs are the corporate

o2 wires are on correct
and car is def. grounded correctly

Does it run right yet?

EGR is not motorcraft-however different heads think differently about this.

I am not changing it just yet.

About a week ago-just before snow storm-I got a CHECK ENGINE LIGHT to flash on and off here and there-and when it was flashing on and off-I felt as if the car shuddered, stumbled, lost power.

I have to wait till this weekend to scan it and see what it spits out.

It is still stumbling during acceleration.

NEW FINDING-under slight acceleration-it stumbles and is choppy.
And when it warms up-cold engine starts-the car normally will rev up to 12-1300 range, than it normally settles to 600 range to idle,-it will not hold a steady rev @ the 1200, instead it revs real choppy and can not hold steady.
Lots of hickups.

Update:

New ignition module has solved the idle issue-ALMOST-its 80 percent smoother.
still a slight roll-but not nearly as violent and almost not noticeable.

Car still has flat spots and will even backfire sometimes-it feels like under WOT there is a balloon inflating that does not pull hard- I KNOW THAT SOUNDS WEIRD-BUT THATS WHAT IT FEELS LIKE. LIKE THERE IS A BALLOON NEARLY FULL THAT WILL NOT TAKE AIR AS FAST AS IT DOES WHEN THE BALLOON STARTS TO INFLATE FROM NOTHING>
THATS WHAT MY ACCELERATION BAND FEELS LIKE.
AND SOMETIMES IT WILL EVEN BACKFIRE.

About to sell it im fed up.
power steering is now pissing all over-but thats a whole nother story

I would look hard at the plug wires,timing, and the timing chain. also take a look at the push rods,rockers,and valve springs. Make sure all are right on. Backfire tells me Spark timing and cam timing are off.

Update:

New ignition module has solved the idle issue-ALMOST-its 80 percent smoother.
still a slight roll-but not nearly as violent and almost not noticeable.

Car still has flat spots and will even backfire sometimes-it feels like under WOT there is a balloon inflating that does not pull hard- I KNOW THAT SOUNDS WEIRD-BUT THATS WHAT IT FEELS LIKE. LIKE THERE IS A BALLOON NEARLY FULL THAT WILL NOT TAKE AIR AS FAST AS IT DOES WHEN THE BALLOON STARTS TO INFLATE FROM NOTHING>
THATS WHAT MY ACCELERATION BAND FEELS LIKE.
AND SOMETIMES IT WILL EVEN BACKFIRE.

About to sell it im fed up.
power steering is now pissing all over-but thats a whole nother story

Markus2

My 90 LSC had a bunch of skipping problems at about 165K -- sometimes backfireing. It finally quit - no spark at all. Thought it was a bad igntion module but NO! It was actually a partial disintigration of the physical parts of the distributor down under the plate that's inside. Plastic began disintigrating and tore things up pretty bad. Been running fine since replacement of the entire distributor. Worth having a look in there.

Distributor could definately be worn out if mileage is high. Just curious, how much vacuum is the engine pulling at an idle? I would put a vac gauge on it if you haven't already.

I will examine the distributor when I bump up timing later in week.

I really think that my timing was fine when i bumped it up a while back and had to run the 91 -93. Than after the ignition module my mech. set it back to zero and wanted me to drive it like that-That day it ran smoother no doubt but the backfiring started...
so.....the NEW ignition module did not make it backfire, I dont think....

i think the timing at base is too far back for my vehicles shape, age, mileage bla bla bla...
i think that once i bump it up it should be fine as far as getting rid of the backfiring.

All the other issues could very well pertain to the DISTRIBUTOR LIKE stated above by you guys-thanks.
LOTS TO DO LOTS TO DO

Waiting on Power Steering crap to arrive and than tackle this SOB.

Definitely don't run the timing at zero. 10 degrees before top dead center is the stock setting IIRC. Let us know the vacuum at idle too. You should have approx 16" of vacuum (maybe more) at idle with a 150K+ mileage engine.

Timing is most definately at 0 will bump it up-and report back.
Like I have said but still not done....

vacuum @ idle is 17-close to dead steady- AS STEADY AS I HAVE SEEN IT.

You really think the distributor could be the issue if it has the flat spots, like hickups, when im driving along at cruising speeds and also during acceleration.


So odd- because as I understand, correct me if I am wrong, when a car is turned on with cold engine-it runs rich- or at least richer than under normal operation temps-

So....interesting...
...my car pulls harder responds better with less throttle-and the Feels as if all power is there....
but after it warms up....
thats when it becomes REALLY noticeable.

Checked timing again...
like you guys said...



It had been reset by mechanic when ignition module was installed..
so idle became STEADIER after install but backfiring underhood was occuring...

So i show up unannounced at mech. shop and told him the timing was off.
He reminded me that it is where it is supposed to be.

I told him my car has been backfiring since you supposedly reset base...with ignition module was installed...

MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT..

it was set at close to 4 or 5 BTDC...
As opposed to factory setting of 10 degrees BTDC-it even says it on the sticker under the hood near the fan-10 degrees before top dead cent i think were the exact words.


So my mech bumps it up...
I go for a ride and find the steepest hill...
Still backfires.
I go back to mech immeadiately and told him give be 3-4 more degrees.
AT THIS POINT THE IS SET TO 13-14 BTDC

I went back to same hill-climbed it faster and no backfire.

I was running 87 octane and noticed the detonation occuring at high rpms under WOT on the highway immeadiately.

So like I did in the past-I ran some 89... it still was snap cracklin and a poppin' under hood.

So I just put in 93 octane....I am gonna beat on it when games end tonite at work.

I think the 93 mite be the trick.

Let me say this...
with my car at 14 degrees-it feels like it got a new engine.
I can not beleive how smooth and hard it pulls.
Off the line it so so quick
I feel like i have gear again (i got 355s out back and can finnally feel em)
It mite be all in my head.
But i am very very excited.

Still sluggish after warming up though....and it still runs better cold while everything is running rich.

IDK.
its a work in progress...
but finnally progress is made...


GETTING THERE.. pita...but getting there.


THANKS SO MUCH GUYS.
ITS FRIGGIN GREAT when progress is made and this forum helps.

Thanks SO MUCH EVERYONE.
gettin there...
we are getting there...

Have you checked if the intake manifold is leaking this will cause a lot of the issues you are experincing. Get a can of ether and when the car is running spray where the gasket is and see if the engine speeds up if it does than the gasket is leaking. Just be careful with the ether it very flammable.

manifold gasket was replaced at same time of headgasket.
I will check never the less.
Thanks for insight
Its just so odd how smooth is runs for the first few minutes...

gasket aint leaking...it is def. not leaking.

had to add a quart of oil today-very dark and around one quart low.
oil change is due- its around 2500 since last...
oil is very very dark.

more clues to the mess that is a mark vii