Ok, as most of you know, I purchased a 00 LS8 for my fiancee on 17 December. On 23 December, a bad under load miss which was causing a lack of acceleration capability reared it's head. Turned out it was coil #3. So after spending a week in the shop, and a lot of heartache with the warranty company (which I've started the cancellation process for a refund) we got the car back last thursday, one week ago. Last night, I went to pass a guy in town after driving the car for less than 15 minutes, and guess what? EXACT same symptoms as before! Car ran up to 4K RPM and just stopped. Now the dealership told me it was fixed and they weren't showing any problems. I think that they just didn't drive the car long enough to let the ignition system totally warm up enough for a misfire to present itself (the tranny and fuel systems checked out 100% good).

So, I figure no biggie, let my fiancee drive it to work today. then in comes the phone call: "Dear, the car broke down and I'm stranded." :mad: Turns out the car wouldn't accelerate past about 20 MPH, and as she was pulling into a hotel parking lot, the steering wheel just locked (motor shut off). I get there and the car fires right up, but I"m not driving it anywhere. tow truck is coming later and it's getting towed to MY HOUSE where I'M going to fix it.

If I was a gold member on here, how much would a complete coil pack run me??? I thought I saw something about $36 but I want to make sure. Reason I ask is because the current plan is to find out what needs replacing, and doing a plug change while I'm at it, and then we're most likely going to sell the car. Too much trouble in too little of time. Not 100% sure yet, but it's likely.

thanks for the help everyone! :Beer

is the car spontaneously shutting down?

is the car spontaneously shutting down?

I can't say for sure because I haven't driven it today, but it sounds like it did when she pulled into the hotel parking lot.

It doesn't show any SES lights on the dash, and she said she never saw one either. I should be hitting it with my buddies Auto X-Ray scanner tomorrow to see if that will shed any light on the subject.

it is it spontaneous shutdown it will be mighty hard to troubleshoot.

I think what's happening is the same thing as before, the longer the car is running the hotter the ignition coils get and the more the performance is degraded. Once I get a scanner on it I'll be able to have a better look.

not familiar with that scanner but if it can pull realtime sensor data on ford extended obdII code you are golden.

It's one of the universal Auto X-Ray scanners (the $500 model) with all the various OBDII manufactures interfaces. It should work.

excellent.

So anyone know how much the Gold Members pricing for coils is??? Katie has already told me she REALLY doesn't want to get rid of the car but if it's going to continue to be a hassle she will. I figure if I can get it fixed we'll end up keeping it going off of what she said.

pm joeychgo and ask him who the vendors are that offer a discount and what the discounts are.

pm joeychgo and ask him who the vendors are that offer a discount and what the discounts are.

will do, thanks!

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/index.php?page=Vendors

that is the vendor list.

check fordpartsonline.com and fordpartsnetwork.com as well they typically offer about the same discount off of retail oem parts.

Sorry to hear you are still having problems. We have been living parallel lives with different cars. We sold my wife's Intrigue to the dealer a few days ago and my wife is driving my LS. :( Gotta love cars. The only way to get them fixed is to do it yourself. I just didn't want to work on that GM FWD POS. No offense to other GM owners.

So anyone know how much the Gold Members pricing for coils is??? Katie has already told me she REALLY doesn't want to get rid of the car but if it's going to continue to be a hassle she will. I figure if I can get it fixed we'll end up keeping it going off of what she said.


Just go to rockauto.com I bought 2 ford coils for mine for $36 each plus shipping. They are pretty good to deal with. If you have a business, or a place you can ship to, you can get a discount on the shipping.

It's odd that your car ate the #3 coil, so did mine. I also have to replace the #5 (that's my 2nd coil) I'm not changing it until I change out the valve cover gasket on the driver's side. By the way, I did my passenger side in about 2 hours.... 5 hours a side, HA!!!!

The OTC genysis, or the Ford NGST will tell you in real time which coil is malfunctioning and when, not sure if the computer you have will. But, another idea: If you have access to a infrared (non contact) thermometer, remove the covers on both sides for the coils, and drive the car for a while, and read the temp on all of the coils and compare.

By the way, I did my passenger side in about 2 hours.... 5 hours a side, HA!!!!

You DA MAN! That's gotta be a record. But.......... how many beers did you consume during that job? :Beer

It's odd that your car ate the #3 coil, so did mine. I also have to replace the #5 (that's my 2nd coil) I'm not changing it until I change out the valve cover gasket on the driver's side. By the way, I did my passenger side in about 2 hours.... 5 hours a side, HA!!!!

Good time. I spent 30 minutes just cleaning up the bolts, cover, and surfaces! Of course, I took some pictures along the way for the site I haven't posted yet. :) I spent probably another 30 extra minutes cleaning the coils and connectors and such also. I guess I am slow.

If you have access to a infrared (non contact) thermometer, remove the covers on both sides for the coils, and drive the car for a while, and read the temp on all of the coils and compare.

Whoa! Good idea, if it is failing enough. I knew that thermometer we got for my son would come in handy!

I just didn't want to work on that GM FWD POS. No offense to other GM owners.

That's funny, as this is the first Ford car I've EVER owned. All others but my daily beater have been GM (still have three currently actually) and I've NEVER experienced a "rash" of problems on those.

I don't think I'll be able to scan the car until Sunday at the earliest, so hopefully I'll be able to show something soon.

That's funny, as this is the first Ford car I've EVER owned. All others but my daily beater have been GM (still have three currently actually) and I've NEVER experienced a "rash" of problems on those.

We all have different luck with different cars. I just don't like working on FWD cars.

Isn't the problem you are having still the original one that hasn't been fixed yet? Now that you are working on it yourself, I am sure you'll get it worked out.

We all have different luck with different cars. I just don't like working on FWD cars.

Isn't the problem you are having still the original one that hasn't been fixed yet? Now that you are working on it yourself, I am sure you'll get it worked out.

I'm sure it's another coil on the same side, but not the same coil. I'll know soon enough whether or not I can tell which coil(s) is bad. That's going to be the redeeming factor is if I can tell or not.

Well, got the car on the scanner today. That scanner show me jack s--t. It shows EVERYTHING I could want on my Trans Am's, but next to nothing on the Lincoln, go figure.

This was the first time driving the car since the latest problem, for me, and it was EXACTLY like the first time, only a LOT more pronounced and came on after about 5 minutes of driving.

I was in SST, and from a dig, throttle on the floor, took it to redline in first, second went to 6500 and then stopped, then the RPM's started dropping and the car started slowing. Once the RPM's had stabilized at about 4500 RPM and the car was still slowing, I upshift to 3rd and it starts pulling again up to about 4000 RPM when the same thing happens.

I NEED an easy way to find out what coils are the problems so I can fix those WITHOUT taking the car to the dealer, who conveniently wants to charge me $120 just for a diagnostic.

Go to autozone... I did. They plugged me into some cheap looking yellow handheld scanner, and said misfire condition on #3 and #5. Changed the passenger side valve cover gasket and #3, inspected the driver's side, no leaks (thank God) changed #5, car runs great.

Just for curiosity, I checked out the bad coils with a known good one, and electrically at room temp, they are identical. About .8 ohms on the primary (12v side) and I think it was about 5k Ohm on the secondary to the primary winding. Nothing to ground which kind of surprises me. I'll check them again tomorrow to be sure. I haven't tried baking one in the oven to see what changes... I'm just happy the car runs!

Go to autozone... I did. They plugged me into some cheap looking yellow handheld scanner, and said misfire condition on #3 and #5. Changed the passenger side valve cover gasket and #3, inspected the driver's side, no leaks (thank God) changed #5, car runs great.

Just for curiosity, I checked out the bad coils with a known good one, and electrically at room temp, they are identical. About .8 ohms on the primary (12v side) and I think it was about 5k Ohm on the secondary to the primary winding. Nothing to ground which kind of surprises me. I'll check them again tomorrow to be sure. I haven't tried baking one in the oven to see what changes... I'm just happy the car runs!

Were you throwing a MIL (SES) Light??? That's the one thing that I would LIKE to see at this point.

http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/counterpoints/counterp_v4_i3_2000.pdf

check out this article. Autozone also sells there aftermarket Coils.

I had been discussing this topic with another guy over here.
http://www.lincolnsonline.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000338&p=1

Good info there! I'm going to swing the car by Advance Auto later today and see if their scanner will show anything.

The description in that wells article is EXACTLY what seems to be happening to my car. OK under light load, but get into a high load and it starts to misfire.

keeps us posted.

Were you throwing a MIL (SES) Light??? That's the one thing that I would LIKE to see at this point.


Not sure what that is, but the yellow engine light would either come on steady or blink for a while... I took it in and they read it off and cleared the list of malfunctions so I could then begin to capture more codes if needed.

I got my coils from rockauto.com, 35 bucks a hit, plus shipping. It's a lot cheaper than the 65 a pop Autozone and Retarded Auto want...

Yeah, that little engine light is the SES light. Mine is NOT throwing that.

About the coils at rock auto, those do come with the boots and stuff, right??

yes, they come with the boots. If I remember right, there were borg warner and Motorcraft coils on there.

Just because the light isn't on doesn't mean it hasn't seen something...

Just because the light isn't on doesn't mean it hasn't seen something...

True. But I scanned it and the computer showed NO set and NO pending codes. It's being stubborn.

I see they have parts from standard motor company and they cost more can any one explain why pleae?

Max at Five Star Ford has the Ford coils and ready to ship.

No kidding... that is strange... I fed my car a bottle of Mechanics BL-12 and an SUV sized bottle of dry gas beore I figured out what it was. It did run better for a while.

I guess you don't know anyone who has a scanner that could ride along with you?

I guess you don't know anyone who has a scanner that could ride along with you?

Not a scanner that would show me what I need. Took it out again last night, same story, and still won't throw a freaking code! :Bang

Katie's working tonight, so inbetween working on my 93 Trans Am (lifter swap) and doing nothing, I'm going to take the LS out and rag on it as long as I can to see if I can set a code. I hate to say it but I'm going to punish that car later tonight to see if I can get it to throw a code.

Fastbird, I don't know how many miles are on your car?? But if it's near the 80,000 mark.. You may want to put a fuel pressure gauge in-line. You can tap off the fuel rail. You may have a fuel pump going bad.... Does the car have more power cold??? And after it warms up some then it has a hard time getting over 3000 RPM??? If so that may be your problem. Unlenn the fuel pump craps out totally, you will get no codes or anything. Good Luck!

Fastbird, I don't know how many miles are on your car?? But if it's near the 80,000 mark.. You may want to put a fuel pressure gauge in-line. You can tap off the fuel rail. You may have a fuel pump going bad.... Does the car have more power cold??? And after it warms up some then it has a hard time getting over 3000 RPM??? If so that may be your problem. Unlenn the fuel pump craps out totally, you will get no codes or anything. Good Luck!

I had to have mine replaced at 90k. Word to the wise if you replace the fuel pumps you have to replace the REM, rear electronic module. The tech at Coutesy had my LS 90 days before he figured that out.

EL, My son had his Mark there 4 times and the couldn't figure it out. We finally got that info from another forum Mark VIII.org. It's a shame when Lincoln dealers can't even figure it out. We had to do it ourselves. And it still costs us diagnosis fee.

Fastbird, I don't know how many miles are on your car?? But if it's near the 80,000 mark.. You may want to put a fuel pressure gauge in-line. You can tap off the fuel rail. You may have a fuel pump going bad.... Does the car have more power cold??? And after it warms up some then it has a hard time getting over 3000 RPM??? If so that may be your problem. Unlenn the fuel pump craps out totally, you will get no codes or anything. Good Luck!

Well, the dealership diagnosed the fuel system the first time the car was in the shop, and said it checked out 100%. But, as long as the schrader valve is near the back of the motor and it's the same size as in on our Trans Am's, I'll have no problem taking the car out with the gauge taped to the windshield.

Oh, and about punishing the car tonight, not going to happen. It's snowing.

EL, My son had his Mark there 4 times and the couldn't figure it out. We finally got that info from another forum Mark VIII.org. It's a shame when Lincoln dealers can't even figure it out. We had to do it ourselves. And it still costs us diagnosis fee.

Basically if there is not a code their ability to fix it is in the commode.

On a brighter note hardly... I had a tire blow out doing 75 on I75 south this morning just before the big bend exit. The car slide out about 90 degrees and then righted it self. I have to change the tire on the left hand shoulder with morning traffic at my back.

Then on the way home I get the flahing CEL and some very obvious mis-firing. I had my laptop and my scan tool with me and was able to check it, it was on #5 thankfully. #'s 1,2 and 3 are buring under the intake and isn't somehting you can just swap out under the shade tree when you get home. Why don't these misfires throw a solid CEL. The code was left in pending and it was misfiring very badly.

This day has been the most ridiculous in all my years of car ownership. I get the feeling my car doesn't like me.

Hey will a fouled plug throw a P0305 code. I think that is what it read; I prolly should write these things down huh.

Fastbird, They checked my son's fuel system too. And said there was nothing wrong eith also. We found other wise. They didn't put a gauge like we did. As soon as the car started lossing power we saw the pressure drop. After the car sat for 10 min. It was okay again till the pump got hot again.

Fastbird, They checked my son's fuel system too. And said there was nothing wrong eith also. We found other wise. They didn't put a gauge like we did. As soon as the car started lossing power we saw the pressure drop. After the car sat for 10 min. It was okay again till the pump got hot again.

That is exactally what they had to do. First trip in they did not see a problem. Once they had my car and drove it enough did they finally decide to use the gauge to check the fuel pressure at eh engine. They replaced the pumps and it seemed to stabilize but the repeated. They had the car several more weeks and finally figured out the REM should be replaced. I think the Ford Engineers had to clue them in becasue the tech said they tested the PCM, FEM and REM and found nothing wrong one my first visit.

The fuel pump is just an electric pump isn't it?
Why do you have to replace the REM when you change out the fuel pump?
How much is the new REM?

Fortunately I did not have to find that out. They ate it becasue they screwed up and almost had me killed. My car dies again in traffic the very next day after they said they had it fixed. I was nearly rear ended my a suburban traveling at a high rate of speed.

If it were for the possibility of death or neck and head injury I wish it would have hit me; maybe the insurance company would have totaled it. But the LS does have 5 star safety so it likely would have mangled the SUV and left me with a busted trunk.

Well, hopefully I'll catch a break in the snow long enough to put the fuel pressure gauge on it and see what happens.

I will say this though: If it is indeed losing fuel pressure, I'm going to pitch a fit at the dealership who diagnosed my fuel system as fine after I had the lead tech in the car driving for 15 minutes to show him the difference between how the car acts when cold vs. hot.

Well, hopefully I'll catch a break in the snow long enough to put the fuel pressure gauge on it and see what happens.

I will say this though: If it is indeed losing fuel pressure, I'm going to pitch a fit at the dealership who diagnosed my fuel system as fine after I had the lead tech in the car driving for 15 minutes to show him the difference between how the car acts when cold vs. hot.


Give em a good ol' fashioned keel haulin'! i'll show you how to tie the knot if you want.

I'll give them a military flight boot in a size 11 up their you-know-what.

Couple of questions:

How much is that REM that must be replaced with the fuel pumps???

Is there a way to diagnose which fuel pump is failing??

Are both of the pumps in tank, or is there one in tank and one in-line??

Does the rear axle need to be dropped for both, or just the in-tank, and can a hatch be cut above the pump (like on the F-Body cars, which I just did)???

If yes, can someone pinpoint where I would need to cut the hatch??

Looks like it's going to be clear and a million today (the calm before tomorrow's big winter storm). Hopefully I'll be able to get the fuel pressure gauge on it this evening. Not looking forward to it though, it's freaking freezing out!

I could not find a price for the module; you might want to pm mrzeee for that.

In regards to identifying which pump you might as well just replace both while you are in there. The tech that did mine was only able to ID the problem by monitoring fuel line pressure via the guage taped to the windshield.

Both are in the tank.

I do not know enough to tell you if you can cut above the fuel tank but IIRC they fuel pumps are a few inches apart and there is some other device that has to be unplugged before you remove the pumps.

PM me with your email and I will try to get the details to you.

Well, just thought I'd throw a quick reply here. I haven't had time nor weather to diagnose the fuel system yet. But, on a whim, I called Holman Lincoln Mercury up in Maple Shade NJ, and was put on the line with a tech. Very easy to deal with dealership this time (I used Holman Lincoln in Turnersvile NJ last time). This tech quoted me at 1.6 hours per fuel pump labor time to replace!!!!! That doesn't seem right, but hey, if it's that cheap, I may have the dealer do it!

Hey ask them to follow up on whether or not they need to replace teh REM. My pump replacement did not do the job. They had to replace the REM. Now what they didnt say if it was teh REM all along but they did say say that they were told that the REM had to be done if the pumps were replaced that the REM had to as well.

Hey ask them to follow up on whether or not they need to replace teh REM. My pump replacement did not do the job. They had to replace the REM. Now what they didnt say if it was teh REM all along but they did say say that they were told that the REM had to be done if the pumps were replaced that the REM had to as well.

Sure thing, I just need to see if it's the pumps for sure or not now.

Do you know exactly what the REM controls???