OK so its no secret to ILLS that I plan on working off of his turbo build. This thread is based off my ideas and the knowledge that a few of the members of this site have. It is a means to get a ILLS, Cammerfe, myself and who ever else has some good hard info and or ideas to communicate and figure out how to make what I believe will be the pinnacle of LS performance. The key here is to maintain the drivability of the car. All modifications will be made with lots of planning prior to and erring on the safe side then slowly adding to it from there. I also plan on keeping this car a sleeper and show ready through out the build.

Here is what I have decided after much research in various places (Rob our convos count HUGELY towards this research... thanks a million! I will keep some of the info secret for your business' sake)

1. The LS can with minor modification be made to support a newer mustang standard transmission, and from there any transmission you want really.

2. With proper tuning and internals, the LS should easily be capable of 600rwhp based off of a turbo.

3. If one turbo spools 8psi easily, then 2 should spool 16 equally as fast. of course sizing needs to be taken into consideration.

What I am currently working on is a staged build of my 01V8 Sport.

Stage 1:
Nitrous. I have the kit and the tuner. I plan on Nitrousing it here soon. I'm working on the hiding of the kit itself. With 100 shot for starters, I plan on needing to work on traction. I will accomplish this with a 8.8" carrier. With the turbo(s) lurking in the near future, it would be pointless to replace the 8" with and 8.8 just to maintain the MAX gearing of 3.55. This stage will also yield a set of drag wheels with Mickey Thompson ET Street drag radials. At this point the car should be pulling low 13's - mid 12's. A custom cold air intake is being used to deliver the N2O to the throttle body. Fuel system mods for the turbo set up are being made to the car during this stage with proper tuning for larger than a 100 shot can be used at that point. May also do some minor drive train work to dig her out of the hole a little easier.

Stage 2:
So long Nitrous... HELLO TURBO!!! I'll be running a rear mount turbo similar to ILLS build. However with all the piping being designed by me and fabricated by me and who ever wants free beer that night, I expect there to be some differences in the overall lay out and hopefully the ground clearance. With the traction issues from the nitrous solved prior to turbo charging, she should take the new found power with the utmost of grace. I plan on using an electronic boost controller to control my boost level since I will only run 4-5 PSI on a daily basis and bump it up a bit for the track.

Stage 3:
This is where major upgrades come in to play. Billet internals to include rods, pistons, and crank will be installed and any honing of cylinder walls that is needed will be done. I may get a spare block to work on for easier access to the block. The end goal is having a bottom end that will be able to withstand 15-20 PSI. I doubt I'll ever get to a full 20, but the need for strength is fueled by my love for this car and not wanting to pop the motor like a zit. I will need to upgrade further my fuel system to handle the increase of boost, and as always retune accordingly. Using come rough rule of thumb math 16 psi should yield about 300-320rwhp over stock so about 500-550.

The 6spd is going to involve some modification and possibly effect the piping of the turbo, so the odds are that the 6spd will be added during the Stage 3 changes while the motor is out of the car .

Stage 4:
This is definitely an R&D stage for the build. I'll be adding in a second turbo and re-piping the entire thing for the utmost of efficiency. With two turbos and still only so much exhaust to power them, the proper sizing will be needed. The only gain from this stage is slightly faster spooling and the prestige of saying I have a TT LS. At 16psi she will be too fast for the track anyway, so from here on out, its a matter of safely building the car I want. It is very likely the piping will all be changed out for stainless at this point since its the final piping. The longevity of the stainless as well as the ability to polish and show it off are what I'm going for here.

Stage 5:
This is the stage that is almost entirely for show since by now I'll need a roll cage to be legal at the track and with a four door and a luxury car, that isn't going happen. This will be the reintroduction of the Nitrous. I'm not exactly sure how yet. It is possible that I'll blow some nitrous across the intercooler and call it a day. Wont see huge gains from it, but it will be their and like I said it will pretty much just be fore show at this point. There is a mild chance that someone will want to challenge me while on the highway, but with roughly 600rwhp, 6 speeds and all of it ready at the push of the pedal I doubt the nitrous will be needed even then.

Ok, You have big goals for your LS...sounds like fun stuff.
My only comment is, whether you have a roll cage, or not, there are some serious frame, and body stiffening that will be necessary for that much HP. I hope you take that into account.
Also, I have my doubts about everything from the rear chunk, out to the hubs. 500-550RWHP, in my opinion, would have enough energy to rip the suspension up pretty good.

Anyway, good luck with your plans. What are your time goals?

Ok, You have big goals for your LS...sounds like fun stuff.
My only comment is, whether you have a roll cage, or not, there are some serious frame, and body stiffening that will be necessary for that much HP. I hope you take that into account.
Also, I have my doubts about everything from the rear chunk, out to the hubs. 500-550RWHP, in my opinion, would have enough energy to rip the suspension up pretty good.

Anyway, good luck with your plans. What are your time goals?



These chassis are 350% more torsionally rigid than the old SN-95 Mustang frames. They can take a good amount of power before twisting. Allot of later model cars have much better frames that can take some serious power before needing stiffening.

The rear end is not a dead end. If need be once he moves up in power he can always do a 31 spline center IRS section along with some custom CV shafts from someone like The Driveshaft Shop. The stocker hubs will withstand the power, especially on a turbo vehicle unless he is really launching that thing off the line. the hubs are one of the last items to upgrade due to the CV shafts usually being the weakest link even in upgraded form. The IRS frame itself will take the power no problem. There are MUCH weaker links that get stressed much more than the IRS frame itself.

Good feedback though. Allot of the items you mention do still play a factor in high horsepower cars.

First, my congratulations on your plan! There's nothing I read there that isn't completely do-able. But you have bitten off a large mouthful. Some thoughts--

First, do you know of the availability of a suitable stick bell housing? (I don't, unless a 6 cyl. piece will fit. And a potential problem is that a rev-happy engine such as a 32-valve V-8 should really have a scattershield.

Second, it strikes me that building all the plumbing for a single turbo and then re-doing everything and buying two more turbos is a rather pricy approach. I've already owned three turbo'd cars and worked on many others, and can jump from my existing experience to twins. With help from ILLS, (and I'm happy to give input), if you intend to go with two, I suggest you start there.

The most important single factor in designing any turbo engine is creating efficiency. Although you must interpolate to get there, the 'boost' in the combustion chamber is the important thing. Actually, boost in the intake tract is a result of a lack of free flow from there on out of the engine. The number you read on the gauge is a function of how everything is working, but an efficient layout making 10 pounds may well make more power than 20 pounds in a non-efficient arrangement.

Anyway, it'll sure be fun. Let's see where we get to!!
KenS from Ben's Place

Ok, You have big goals for your LS...sounds like fun stuff.
My only comment is, whether you have a roll cage, or not, there are some serious frame, and body stiffening that will be necessary for that much HP. I hope you take that into account.
Also, I have my doubts about everything from the rear chunk, out to the hubs. 500-550RWHP, in my opinion, would have enough energy to rip the suspension up pretty good.

Anyway, good luck with your plans. What are your time goals?

I was on the phone with ILLS today and he and I discussed the 31 spline idea. Its a no brainer and I left it out of my thoughts and my post, but it definately something that will be needed when you start talking about sending 500+ ponies to the wheels. As far as stiffening, these cars are already pretty stiff, thats where the handling attributes come from so I'm not that worried at this moment in time. Worst case sinereo I have to make some modifications down the road. I can always beef up the frame and do some under the skin of the car work. I HIGHLY doubt that a full on cage will ever be needed.

These chassis are 350% more torsionally rigid than the old SN-95 Mustang frames. They can take a good amount of power before twisting. Allot of later model cars have much better frames that can take some serious power before needing stiffening.

The rear end is not a dead end. If need be once he moves up in power he can always do a 31 spline center IRS section along with some custom CV shafts from someone like The Driveshaft Shop. The stocker hubs will withstand the power, especially on a turbo vehicle unless he is really launching that thing off the line. the hubs are one of the last items to upgrade due to the CV shafts usually being the weakest link even in upgraded form. The IRS frame itself will take the power no problem. There are MUCH weaker links that get stressed much more than the IRS frame itself.

Good feedback though. Allot of the items you mention do still play a factor in high horsepower cars.

You and I think too much alike. its starting to scare me! :cool:

First, my congratulations on your plan! There's nothing I read there that isn't completely do-able. But you have bitten off a large mouthful. Some thoughts--

First, do you know of the availability of a suitable stick bell housing? (I don't, unless a 6 cyl. piece will fit. And a potential problem is that a rev-happy engine such as a 32-valve V-8 should really have a scattershield.

Second, it strikes me that building all the plumbing for a single turbo and then re-doing everything and buying two more turbos is a rather pricy approach. I've already owned three turbo'd cars and worked on many others, and can jump from my existing experience to twins. With help from ILLS, (and I'm happy to give input), if you intend to go with two, I suggest you start there.

The most important single factor in designing any turbo engine is creating efficiency. Although you must interpolate to get there, the 'boost' in the combustion chamber is the important thing. Actually, boost in the intake tract is a result of a lack of free flow from there on out of the engine. The number you read on the gauge is a function of how everything is working, but an efficient layout making 10 pounds may well make more power than 20 pounds in a non-efficient arrangement.

Anyway, it'll sure be fun. Let's see where we get to!!
KenS from Ben's Place

I havent looked into specific parts availabilty for it just yet. That is something that will get worked on and looked into. My "ace in the hole" is that I have a very good buddy from the navy who is the lead fabricator at an armored car factory. I'm positive he can assist if need be.

As far as two turbos first and not staged like I plan... Good and bad idea. The way I see it, that turbo can be resold either to a fellow LS owner or to some ricer who wants a bigger snail. :D I just think that the cost effectiveness of a twin turbo sytem that isnt needed will just offest and delay the actual power building. When I get the TT setup I'm not gonna make any more power. The internals and what not are FAR more of a priority to me. A single turbo sized like ILLS has will make the power I'm looking for, so to fab some piping and then have to refab later is a non issue in the big picture as far how my priorities are laid out for this. I do agree only having to do it once is easier, but this isnt a work job, its a fun job.



Some other things are not mentioned but will get worked over like my intake manifold for example. The way I see it, once you get this much work into a car, anything not done just looks lazy. So eventually I'll have stainless instead of aluminum, things will be polished and powder coated. For right now though, I am bone stock right down to the Fram air filter. I have to set priorities, make a plan of attack and go from there. And money for the upper stages will come from prior stages being done. For example, my locker for the 28 spline, I can resell after to offest the cost of the 31 spline. I agree with you Ken, that the cheapest and easiest way to go about it would be to go for the high end right off. But practicality of getting this project on the road before the end of the season becomes almost none. My goal is to be done with stage 2 by the end of July. I think looking at my finances and the time frame, that's a realistic goal.

Grats on creatin a plan for your tt beamer killer!!!! at least some of us still have high hopes, nothing to stop you really except money lol if you've got that then its all down hill from here, like I say to all my customers "speed cost money.... so JUST how fast do you wanna go?" if you need anything ANYTHING built let me know!! one thought tho

1. bottom end...

I read most of your post but what about the bottom end? Yes they are blueprinted rotating assemblies and YES they are ford'd jag engines however your going to be putting roughly 300% of the factory tolerances on that bottom end, I would be worried about block failure if I were you, however dont let that stop ya man go fer it!!!! No guts no Glory!!

I don't know if the bolt pattern is the same, but, given the common AJ-family heritage between their mills and ours, the S-Type R would be a logical place to start in your quest for a bellhousing. It would also be a good idea to see what Jaguar and Aston Martin did to the bottom ends of their AJs to get them to handle the power.

I wasn't aware that the S Type R was available with a manual trans. On the other hand, the Jag lower end is almost the same---consisting of a ladder-type girdle one-piece main bearing casting and then a cast sump w/sheet metal pan on the front. The greatest difference is that the oil filter location is on the passenger side instead of in the front. The Aston Martin uses a dry-sump oiling system. Due to the virtual unavailability of such parts here in the US, I'm in process of re-doing the sump and fitting an Aviaid external pump and scavenge unit.
KS

I wasn't aware that the S Type R was available with a manual trans.
Yeah, scratch that; my memory was faulty. They used a 5-speed manual in the S-Type, but the R got a ZF 6-speed slushbox.

Grats on creatin a plan for your tt beamer killer!!!! at least some of us still have high hopes, nothing to stop you really except money lol if you've got that then its all down hill from here, like I say to all my customers "speed cost money.... so JUST how fast do you wanna go?" if you need anything ANYTHING built let me know!! one thought tho

1. bottom end...

I read most of your post but what about the bottom end? Yes they are blueprinted rotating assemblies and YES they are ford'd jag engines however your going to be putting roughly 300% of the factory tolerances on that bottom end, I would be worried about block failure if I were you, however dont let that stop ya man go fer it!!!! No guts no Glory!!


Well, I havent taken any measurements for sure on the block. I am pretty confident that she will hold up to the power. This isnt a mid engine, but based off what the stangs are doing I'd say the block SHOULD be stout enough to hold less than 600 horses. That is definately something to look into when I get my new block and have it honed/bored. I dont want to bore any more than absolutely nessecary since I'm not making power with displacement... Im making it with boost. The old saying was "there is no replacement for cubic inches." That is so not true. "Its not the size of the cylinder, its how you blow it!" But im side tracking myself. I need to really get some measurments once the new block is back from the machine shop (I have to get one still and send it to the shop for that to happen) The huge upside to building a new motor is I can set my entire drive train in place on stands to make sure it all bolts up right. My poor LS is going to look so wierd sitting on the lift with no engine, tranny, rear end, nothing!


It's hard for me to focus on stage 1 and 2 with so many things looming in stage three that need to be answered, but my new drivetrain mods are ordered. VERY soon, I'll be replaceing the XCAL 2 with a SCT Livewire unit and new SCT MAF compliments of KBX Performance. I have a pile of things that need to be installed, but dyno time is hard to come by and with the nature of the mods, she will need a tune almost immediately inorder to run. I have my MAF coming soon, new fuel pump, injectors as soon as I can find a reasonable price on a set. That all HAS to be done last minute before the dyno and then she gets a ride on a flat bed. The drive train mods I want to do all at once so I dont have to take it apart twice. I re-fabricated my cold air intake piping this weekend to leave closer to 6" between the first bend and the throttle body for the N2O nozzle to fit. I got her welded up ince a purdy like and then ground down to a nice smooth finish. She's cleaned up and getting ready to get sprayed. I want to use that insulating spray (jet hot coating i think its called someone help me out here) just to maitain the utmost of cold inside the pipe itself. Its not that important now, but I plan on running this pipe down to my intercooler when the turbo comes and with boost..... the colder you can get it the safer. After talking with ILLS about the FMIC its more than enough for the smaller PSI and even the higher PSI, but I want to err on the safe side.

I have a dyno tune appointment on the 6th, but it has to be pushed back a little bit since I cant get my MAF and injectors in on time for that date. And honestly it would be foolish to do it twice. I'll be sure to post pictures and updates as they happen!

Grats man movin right along! Dont let me scare ya the only reason I brought up block failure is that i've seen far too many cobras get flat-beaded into my shop with the intake mani and oil pan bein the only thing holding the blocks together, granted I personally think that these blocks are stronger based on the ladder frame design but never know when your talkin about that much tortional strain, Good luck man keep us posted, you need anything made let me know p.m.

man i can't even afford a CAI...
GL!!

they'e all great ideas but i woud seriously consider picking one just one path and a end result 1/4mile time or HP number. with dedication and wads of cash, stage 4 is attainable.

i went with nitrous for my daily driver and its a perfect fit. no other real mods needed for 100hp and 125 with a fuel pump. (coming near the end of this year). its a lot less work and money to get that power vs turbo/ SC. of course if this isnt your primary car, then its nice to ALWAYS have the power on tap and not fill bottles.

if i were to somehow have vastly deeper pockets, i would keep going and lose the powdered rods, and go the roots blower route. Just add more boost until something breaks like the tranny or halfshafts and just fix it as you go.

i totaly agree about the drivability. these are such comfortable, attractive, nice handling cars and most of us just want as much power as possible without losing the balance.
i'll be happy just to get a fuel pump though, i'm getting married, going on a honeymoon, and looking to buy a house all within a year (hence buying the nitrous now :D ) and lets not forget how expensive mini-me's are

good luck- oh and i think im still on for NED this friday. will try to plan for test and tune sometime and hopefully we can get more LS guys up there

Grats man movin right along! Dont let me scare ya the only reason I brought up block failure is that i've seen far too many cobras get flat-beaded into my shop with the intake mani and oil pan bein the only thing holding the blocks together, granted I personally think that these blocks are stronger based on the ladder frame design but never know when your talkin about that much tortional strain, Good luck man keep us posted, you need anything made let me know p.m.




That is not block failure on those 4.6 Cobra's you observed. That would be internal failure that in turn punched a hole in the block and cracked it. The 4.6 block whether it is the cast iron one, Teksid aluminum, or WAP aluminum will withstand over 1,000hp with a forged/billet rotating assembly.

they'e all great ideas but i woud seriously consider picking one just one path and a end result 1/4mile time or HP number. with dedication and wads of cash, stage 4 is attainable.


The "staged" or "phased" approach to larger projects is actually a good way to approach something of this nature. I use the phased approach on my personal project race vehicle. The reason for this is because the extensive amount of modifications that need to be performed would take a very very very long time to perform all at once. The other main reason is finances. I think Sean still has the same goal in mind in the end but it is nice to have subgoals to reach so that you have a good comparison to ensure you are on track. ;)

The "staged" or "phased" approach to larger projects is actually a good way to approach something of this nature. I use the phased approach on my personal project race vehicle. The reason for this is because the extensive amount of modifications that need to be performed would take a very very very long time to perform all at once. The other main reason is finances. I think Sean still has the same goal in mind in the end but it is nice to have subgoals to reach so that you have a good comparison to ensure you are on track. ;)

True to a point... I didnt make little goals or check points because I was trying to be smart about it... I'm greedy selfish and impatient... I want power and I want it NOW HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah the stages make so the build requires as little down time as possible, then minimizing rework, then maximizing resale of used parts for later work. If I wanted to I could throw the money at her for everything, but she'd be down for a while. I love the Mark VIII and all, but I'd go nuts without the LS for as long as it would take for me and my buddies to do a motor swp with internals, tranny swap, new drive train, fab up twin turbos, run a nitrous set up, then make it all run. Then once she ran she'd have to get trailored to the dyno to be tuned for the better part of a day before she was road worthy. WAY too much down time. With the stages I'll have less to tune all at once, each project will be a day to a week long. That is FAR BETTER than the months it would take me to do it all.

As she sits, she is not track ready. She needs some maint love. Ball joints, VCG, are getting done with my drivetrain hopefully this weekend if the parts get in. Either way I have a VERY busy couple of weekends. The fuel system, N2O kit, drive train and general maint should all be done here very shortly. With that done, most if not all of stage 1 will complete except for the wheels and tires. I need to figure out what that coating is called and spray my intake. I was going to steal Jason's heat shield idea, but I just bent my intake down to where the FMIC is going to come out and I'll cover the filter with a water sock. Should be sucking in some nice cold air!!!:cool:

True to a point... I didnt make little goals or check points because I was trying to be smart about it... I'm greedy selfish and impatient... I want power and I want it NOW HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

exactly! perhaps i'm on the same "phased" path and i just dont know it yet :D
add the supercharger and keep the nitrous on to cool it when at the track. power is great, but i love neck snapping torque (obviously the LS wasnt quite designed for that).

honestly, SC's are something I cant get into. Nitrous and Turbo technology has made MASSIVE leaps in the past 10 years or so and SC's havent kept up. I'll take a well sized and tuned turbo over any SC out there!


And I'll be at the track tonight for street night. I may take the Mark out, but probably just take the LS and watch.

251 295 0657 if you go call or text me

update for everyone.

I installed my nitrous system this week as well as loaded a tune. I got the tune from KBX Performance friday. Let me tell you, it woke the car up a TON! I didnt expect to get that much responce from just a tune. I cant wait to get the new Fuel Injectors (found a set for cheep) fuel pump and MAF sensor in. She probably wont make any more power from it, but she'll be ready for more power. It is at that point very likely I'll bump up the nitrous a bit. We shall see. I'll do the same thing I did with this level of juice, and test it, data log it, and adjust accordingly.

Tomorrow, if the rain holds out, I'll be heading to the track to test out both the tune and then nitrous. I dont have a nitrous controller installed, so I expect to rip out of the hole harder and probably lose traction easier. There is some good and some bad to running based soley off the WOT, but I want to see what I get from her before I go adjusting the set up. I ran a 15.4 with the 20"s in stock form. I want to get a couple good passes with just the tune and still running the 20"s then move on to nitrous pulls. I'm thinking that with the 20"s slowing me down a bit, and the controler not helping me launch, but having some big fat 275's on the back... I'll be happy to see about a 13.5-13.8. Anything better obviously will be nice and anything less will make me spend some SERIOUS time looking at slips and trying to see what my issues are. I will be sure to report my findings from the track asap! Maybe some vids will be posted. I know I'm gonna want them for evaluation of the cars performance. Posting depends on how well I do! ;)

No track today... rain fowled my plans. Now I'll have to redo the electrical on the N2O system since I cut a corner to save some work and make it ready faster. I should have a my locker installed before I get to the track again, so traction problems should be greatly reduced.

Can not wait to see status, pics, etc. One question for all of you. All most all mods that I read about on here are Gen 1 engines. Why is no one using the Gen 2 motors? Is it because of the throttle by wire, or the VCT, or the ecm?
Thanks and good luck. Cannot wait. Finally someone with the cash and the no how to make something like this happen.

Why is no one using the Gen 2 motors?

ummmmm funny you mention that. I see it the otherway around. ILLS has a thread about his turbo build on his 05. Other than 02LS...... im the only one doing any serious work to a 1st gen that I know of. A few people are running a 100 shot, but thats about it. The LS performance world is pretty much uncharted except for a few people who are just crazy enough to make this work. CammerFE races land speed. ILLS is a tuner with a hard on for sleepers. Me on the other hand, I have built a truck, a stang, a civic, a classic stang.... this is kind of a culmination of all those builds in one SEXY project.

On a side note, I pulled the nitrous bottle out of the trunk and spray painted her so she would be all one color. Looks much better. I drove her down to a mustang show that turned out to be a Mustang / Ford show and took 9 out of 150-200 cars. So the build for street strip and show is owning most anything in the street and show categories. I just need to find track time to see what she gets. On a dyno while tuning the nitrous she put 305 to the rear wheels. Not bad really. I figure the 1st gens are good for 215-220 stock, with a 100 shot, to come out to 305rwhp is about where I expected to be. OK enough yammering... pics!

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1350.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1352.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1353.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1357.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1360.jpg


If you look at the engine bay picture, you'll see my CAI isnt installed yet. That was me being sneaky for the track. I wanted people to really deficate bricks when they looked and saw how "stock she is" :cool: And even with the engine cover off, NOT A SINGLE PERSON could tell I was juiced until they looked in the trunk!!!!!!! MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Good looking trophy! Is your bottle fastened to the spare lid? (I've put mine crossways just behind the seat back and reach it by folding the seat down. But then I haven't re-done the trunk to make the cover fit.)

KenS from Ben's Place

Nope! I removed the spare (thank god for AAA) and the post that holds it down. The bottle is fastened directly to the sheet metal housing for the spare. I have to lift the lid for anyone to see it. The bolts stuck out like a sore thumb looking at the car from behind so I cut em down a bit and painted them too! HAHAHAHA

Here is most of the lown down on hidden N20. I probably should keep this to myself, but oh well.

The bottle is in the spare as you can see. The nitrous line hides with the brake lines under the car. The solenoids are in the plastic housing for the air conditioner filter, the fuel line is taken from the fuel rail with a rubber hose (more to it than that) and everything is covered in wire loom. I'll get some just engine bay pics and let you guys see how it is hidden.

yeah, i thought i used up all my luck never getting a flat in the 7 years i had my thunderbird so i left the spare in the LS and built a speaker box. of course, there wasnt much space to put a bottle. with this setup i can take everything out when i go to the track, but still keep my spare tire the rest of the time. (wow i really need some wire loom around those wires!)

I'm taking the throttle body off to pollish the outside. Should bring out some ooos and ahhhhs when people see it. My question is this. I have some mustang buddies who all did a PnP job to their throttle boddies using a dremel. They claim to see an improvement. I have never heard of this. I know people have theirs done, but a dremel seems like just a clean up obvious obstrustions type of job and i dont think these cars had too much of an issue. I'm hoping to get some thoughts and comments on this process and if it should be done, avoided, or just kinda doesnt matter. she is coming off this weekend to have the OUTSIDE pollished so that would be the time to do it if I am going to.

theres a lot of slop from the factory in the tb's, I opened mine up one saturday because I got bored and there was almost an 1/8" overlap between the throttle body and the neck it bolted to :( lol dunno weather it did anything or not feels like it did, might just be my brain gettin in the way

hmmmmm maybe I'll take a look and clean it up some. I thought with these cars be such a damn expensive platform for ford to make that they'd be somewhat decent. Time to grap the calipers and see whats going on I think.

Where are you located (if you don't mind)? I may be able to help you out quite a bit with the fabrication and plumbing on the TT setup if your close enough.

Nashua NH..... more than welcome to come over and help.... I have a crew of mechanics and welders with me as the brains of the outfit.

ok so I blew up the damn intake and maybe some other stuff at the track last wednesday. There is a thread about it somewhere. Here are some carnage pics for your viewing pleasure:

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1374.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1375.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1376.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1378.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1377.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1379.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1382.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1381.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1380.jpg

more:

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1383.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1385.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1386.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1384.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1387.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1389.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1390.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1391.jpg

a sneak prewiew of whats coming as she rises from the ashes!

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/LS%20pics/CIMG1392.jpg

a little bit of Elmers Glue and you are back on the road!!

shes was running on duct tape that same night. I had to drive away from the track so AAA would tow her

anyone know how to PnP a throttle body? I was thinking about cleaning it up while I have everything broken down

Now, I have been accused of not being too smart at times so take anything I say with a grain of salt and I haven't actually done this, so take that into account also. My understanding is that you basically want to make sure the transition from TB to the manifold is as smooth as possible, basically making sure they are the same size I.D. all the way around. If the TB is smaller than the intake you could be looking at a "bottle neck", which is bad. I've also heard of grinding the head of the screws that hold the "butterfly" to the shaft down a bit so when it's W.O.T. thats a little less restriction. Is there more to it, probably, but thats what I know. Will you see a difference, no, probably not a big one until you have the TT's set up, but hey, it's fun the grind stuff regardless right?

HAHAHAHAHAHA Doing plenty of grinding lately. When you gonna swing by and see my car / let me see yours?

As soon as I get a shred of spare time, been crazy latelly. Goin to the track tonight if the rain holds out. Whatcha up to?

where did you have your nozzle mounted?? pre- MAF? your actual intake looks fine, just the air tube... you're a lucky SOB! :D

pre MAF? no its a wet kit. Went just before the TB

http://www.force-efi.com/fabmach.htm

there is a link for those of you looking to get some really big numbers! I say that for a reason... its a waste of money unless you are building to atleast 400. judgement call from there.

pre MAF? no its a wet kit. Went just before the TB

i was just surprised to see that much damage to the air intake all the way down to the filter. i figured you may have put it just after the MAF... or further back from the throttle body. it sucks fitting a nozzle on the underside of a gen1 intake doesn't it.

it sucks fitting a nozzle on the underside of a gen1 intake doesn't it.

not really..... got it first shot and didnt even plan out the clearance under it. Just figured out where it would spray best and anstalled. Got lucky I guess

Not enough fuel and too much timing.

too much nitrous and not enough fuel...... sprayed at about 1k rpm...... not enough flow yet for nitrous to be flowing

OK so its been a little while. I installed my new maf and go the intake tubing sealed up (waiting on better weather to paint my CAI) and she didnt want to run right. I noticed my cats were glowing not red but orange inside of a few seconds. So I changed my cats out for some 2" piping and an O2 sensor bung. Still not running right..... HMMMMMM? Then I sat and thought for a second. With how she was running it could be one of two things. Either a blown intake mani seal or a hole in a piston. Not wanting to deal with the piston just yet, I took my intake mani off. The good news is my gasket was fine and now is brand new. The bad news was I somehow had missed that the back fire blew the circular plate off the back of the manifold. Well since Lincoln glued it on to start with, I glued it back on. Except that I used ultra grey silicone adhesive. So she is up and running like new!


Some noticeable differences are evident though. I had the TB off anyway and since I had like a 1/4" bottle neck, I decided to gasket match the throttle body section and the the intake. Much less restrictive air flow now. I dont have cats, so what little bit of resistance they gave is gone. I have been running the CAI i made for a day or so (still not painted) and she is breathing nicely. All and all with my KBX Performance tune and the minor mods I made while she was down, this car is running like a raped ape right now! I cant wait to get my bottle filled and see how she runs on the juice! Oh yeah. I also polished the outside of my TB and while its not done, the subtle accent it provides to the engine bay look stellar!!!!! Hope fully my camera will work so I can get a pic of it up here.



More 411 for those of you paying attention to the performance numbers. Bone stock with 20"s she ran 15.5 and 15.6 with two different track days. The night she blew up I was runnning mostly stock, but I pulled the timing from my KBX tune. She ran a 15.5 with the tune and mucho timing retard. I might be over stepping by bounds a bit but I am thinking with new modifications by me and with no timing retard on this killer tune, she may be have a 14 sec pass in her. 14.999 will count as far I'm concerned for that matter. For an N/A first gen LS to make a pass in the 14's is victory of its own. One of many baby steps on the way to shattering everything that has been set down previously with an LS!

Track time is coming again soon. I'll keep this thread and everyone watching it updated.

Track time is coming again soon. I'll keep this thread and everyone watching it updated.

Did you make it to the track last night? The weather ended up holding out but it was humid as hell.

I will surely get up there with you by fall and I'll try to bring a few others with me.

didn't go last night. Had a buddy go and said there was 60 cars total nice a cool weather perfect night for racing. He hasn't had conditions like the in 8 years. I'm pissed I wimped out.

didn't go last night. Had a buddy go and said there was 60 cars total nice a cool weather perfect night for racing. He hasn't had conditions like the in 8 years. I'm pissed I wimped out.

Figures! Its still a big gamble for me. It would suck to go all the way up and then have it pour or have the track damp. It may have been cool, but still humid? Thats what I'll say to make myself feel better.
Glad the car is working again!

yeah figure 50 to fill the bottle, 60 to get enough gas to get there and have some for the track and 20 to race..... 130 bucks is allot of dough to drop on a maybe get to race!

yeah figure 50 to fill the bottle, 60 to get enough gas to get there and have some for the track and 20 to race..... 130 bucks is allot of dough to drop on a maybe get to race!

Good to see you up at the track Friday. Well, it was almost a waste of time but ended up being a good night. There was a breif sprinkle right as I pulled into the place. Then they wouldnt let me run the bottle without the blowdown tube and the nitrous guy at the track "didn't get them in this morning". So my first run was without nitrous. The track was sticky and I should have done a breakstand to launch but I just idled then went. I shifted manually and held it in 3rd going over the line. It ran a 15.333 @ 94mph.
After someone left a rod on the track, it took forever to clean up. In the meantime I put the bottle back in, not expecting to race again but it opened back up so I went. I took it easy, no breakstand, and no nitrous while shifting. I went over the line in 3rd again, but my controller turned off the nitrous due to engine speed. It would have been faster to shift into 4th and get on the nitrous again. But still, it ran 13.7 @ 100.8mph. Not bad for first time out. I've made some controller changes and plan to beat on her a little more when I get back up in the fall.
Did you get a chance to get a run in?

no running for me. That guy at the track waned to charge me 225 for a new bottle with burst plate. I just picked up my new burst plate for $1 and a second bottle for 90. Seriously thinking about a window switch, but IDK. More money in a temporary set up. I may be heading up this friday again only this time all my wrenching will done ahead of time.

how long you guys been using nitrous.... not just on the lincoln but in genral?

my LS is the first application I've had with Nitrous. I'm a big fan of the start up cost. and from what I've seen (did tons of research before installing) its just as safe as a turbo or SC. why whats up?

I really am thinking about throwing a shot on mine... It looks like I need a window switch, nitrous kit... some fuel line to tap in the the hard line at the fuel filter... and a progressive system...


For those already spraying there hearts out..... what is your parts list consist of..

what kind of cars have you hung with or stombed... on the bottle and were surprised it happened!

if you use a progressive controller you dont need a windo switch.... fuel line should come with the kit.

basic wet nitrous setup (should be in the kit)

bottle
lines
solenoid
nozzle
jets
fuze
switch
microswitch
relay
and some wiring



you will want to adjust your timing a bit depending on the size of the shot so add an SCT device (Xcal2 or X3 is fine)


for safety reasons your gonna want something that will make it so you dont spray too low in the RPM range. Either a window switch or a progressive controller will do this and they are priced pretty cloesly together too.


so your bottle stays a regulated pressure, you'll want a heater and with the heater you nead a pressure gauge.


if you want a big shot you need a new fuel pump.

it really depends what you want to do with it. You may want ti available on the streets and need a remote opener. you may want it at the track and need a blow down tube. To get setup and ready to run the nitrous safely and effectively your looking about $1000. That of course depends on what you want out of it.

I would say figure out exactly what you want the Nitrous for and how much you want to get out of it and I'll help you get a parts list for ya.

track/ Street.... maybe a 75 shot.. if i do the progressive i think i will go with the 100 shot

what kind of cars have you hung with or stombed... on the bottle and were surprised it happened!




Sean already mentioned the more technical side so I will stray off my normal course of just yapping about that and talk about the more fun side... Racing.

Back when I was running the nitrous system on the LS there were many kills I racked up. The somewhat respectable ones were:

LS1 GTO (mild bolt ons)
LS2 GTO (stock)
C5 Corvette (exhaust)
97 Mustang Cobra (on slicks)
Mustang GT (built 306 w/ mild mods)
Trans Am WS6 (mods unknown)
350Z's of various years and mods
Mustang GT's of various years and mods
Others I am forgetting...

Some of the above races were close while others turned into a little bit of a whooping. I pulled the C5 vetter pretty hard from a roll. Owner was ready (let him take the hit) and we talked afterwards. One of the few cool Vette owners that could take loosing to a "slower" car. The fella in the WS6 TA got embarrassed pretty badly. Did three somewhat short runs and each time I pulled him real quick. He didn't know what hit him. The 97 Cobra was a real close race. The guy edged me out a few times off the launch but I came back reeling him in pretty hard on the back stretch. There are a few videos around of my runs with him at the strip where he ended up holding the lead to the end of the track. The guy was a real good driver which made the races pretty close that day.

what size shot you running and is it a progressive setup

been searching ebay... the progressive kits are cheap... Looks like a can do the nitrous and controller for about 800 bucks not counting a heater or down tube

Rob is running a turbo now..... he was running a 100 shot and yes he was using a progressive controller.

A progressive controller is good and bad. Bad by means it might be over kill for a 75 shot. These cars have been proven to handle a 100 shot with no real issues.

the way it works is you tell it how much of the spray to start with (percentage of tuned shot) and how long you want it to take to get to a full spray. it pulses the solenoid till you get to 100% witch it just holds.

the advantages being traction and its not as hard on the tranny. It also will delay you off the line so you cant accidentally do what I did and spray too low an RPM.

the disadvantage is you dont get the full power for that period of time. kinda a small downside if you ask me.


a window switch is more simple. it tell it when to spray as far as engine speed is concerned. it will start at a set rpm and stop at a set rpm. Thats nice when driving in d4 or d5...... SST is the way to go if you can though. so the shut of thing isnt as much an issue after you bump your shift pressure up. There are people on this site running 125 or 150 shots. CammerFE knows a good deal about Nitrous as well. He's running a 150 shot. the issue with running that big a shot like I said before is fuel delivery.


When nitrous sprays it delivers more fuel as well as the nitrous. the two have to be in the right ratios. if you dont have enough fuel and too much nitrous you end up with a backfire. Backfires can just make a bang, or they can burn holes in cylinders. Not something you want to experience, trust me on that one! You shouldnt spray before 3000rpm and when you tune the jetting on your set up, you should run her on a dyno to test her out and record you AFR's. you should start low and work your way up. I cheated because of how many 100shot ls's are out there and started with a 50 then went 100. The right way would be to start small like a 25, then 50, then 75 and so on. You want to watch the AFR's and timing. You might be good on a stock tune's timing, but with the wear and tear on your specific car you might find that you need to pull timing. I have a pretty friggin agressive tune on my car. So I had to pull timing like a mad man. But once you get it dialed in, you can slowly bring the timing back up to an optimal level while still being safe. It might cost you 100-150 bucks for the hour on the dyno, but its much better than risking the alternative.


i'll stop blabbing. more questions ask.... thats what were here for.


just on tune with timing pulled for nitrouss but it not working I ate on the track

STI
Civic SI with whiney thing (turbo or SC didnt pay enough attention once my car didnt spray


before trying the nitrous i killed me

chevelle
325xi
various rice not worth noticing


on the highway.....
I've owned almost everything I tried. I even spanked my buddies G35 on several tries. the dum dum doesnt know about the LS gearing and how she does 60-100 faster than you can say 60-100. sucker!





these cars are a blast to drive. I cant wait for this family business to clear up so I can get back into this build. Poor Rob has been waiting for the word to order up my parts for WAY too long now.

been searching ebay... the progressive kits are cheap... Looks like a can do the nitrous and controller for about 800 bucks not counting a heater or down tube

800.....rip off! I got my entire kit brand new for 400..... and the controller is another 140. Dont cheap out, make sure you get a quality kit before you blow up a machine as awe inspiring as an LS

this is the cheapest kit i could find
http://www.streetsideauto.com/products.asp?ptid=4383&brand=BHHV&series=Sniper%20Universal%20Wet%20Kit&partnumber=07006NOS&Skip=True&LookupType=NON&Reset=True

show me what kit and controller you have or at least give me something to search?

thanks

What heads are you gonna run with those turbo's? I have a 2004 Cobra of course it has a charger not a turbo. The first problem I had when I changed the pullies and the charger were the rods. One snapped in did punch a hole in the block. After I got a new block and rebuild I blew the heads. I was running around 21psi. The car is in the shop yet again getting the rear end rebuilt for the second time do to the wheel hop of 600hp and the damage it did. But after all is said and done i will be around 15psi and hopefully no more trips to Larocca's.

the heads should have been fine along with the rods... just bad luck... the rear end built right will handle like 900 hp i believe...

What heads are you gonna run with those turbo's? I have a 2004 Cobra of course it has a charger not a turbo. The first problem I had when I changed the pullies and the charger were the rods. One snapped in did punch a hole in the block. After I got a new block and rebuild I blew the heads. I was running around 21psi. The car is in the shop yet again getting the rear end rebuilt for the second time do to the wheel hop of 600hp and the damage it did. But after all is said and done i will be around 15psi and hopefully no more trips to Larocca's.




Your issues are extremely uncommon of Terminator owners. Your stocker bottom end will withstand 600rwhp on a Kenne Bell or Whipple all day long no problem as long as it has proper fueling and a solid tune. Push it to 700+ and you run into issues starting to arise. On turbo Terminators there have been quite a few that have pushed past 750-800rwhp on the stocker internals and heads. Unless you are pushing some big hp then there usually isn't much need to upgrade the bottom end in those cars.

The stocker IRS rear ends have lasted past 600rwhp with proper driving even while launching on slicks at the track. Yes, usually a halfshaft will snap now and then but that is pretty easy to replace. Staying with IRS, go with DSS... Other than that go solid rear swap and don't worry.

How exactly do you "blow a head"??? Um, did you mean to say blow a head gasket??? Drop a valve??? :confused:

Your stocker heads are completely fine for anywhere upwards of 1,000+ hp depending on which form of FI you are using. Now if you plan to put some serious power down then you should go with a good blower (or turbo) cam like what Crower or others offer to maximize power output.

Don't take this the wrong way but considering all of the problems you had it seems as if you are either REALLY unlucky or aren't doing something right. By your wording I am lead to believe the latter rather than the former. Proper fueling and tuning really save a good bottom end such as the one's in the Terminators. Go too small on the fuel system or have an incompetent tuner do a tune for you and there can almost be no end to the problems that may arise.







Now back on topic to LS specific tech. The stocker 4v heads on these LS's will not become a limiting factor for a while, even while boosting it with a single or twin turbo. The stocker rotating assembly is a very large limiting factor in these cars which is why I choose to run only lower boost on the turbo system I built for my car. The order of major items in the engine that will become limiting factors with the LS performing well when boosted are as follows:

1) Rotating assembly
2) Stocker cams
3) Heads dead last as more an afterthought

what he said! lol





seriously it is wierd your having problem with a terminator motor.... the term guys in the mustang club around here are all putting CRAZY numbers (i think one hit 1100ish on the dyno) That being said at that size they are redoing their bottoms and just about everything else. I fully intend to ride out the 4v as long as I can. if I need more to do after everything is done then I will look at heads, but honestly I dont see it in my future

So is it indeed possible to swap out the slushbox for a 6 or 5 speed man tranny...would'nt the 5 speed tranny from the now discountinued 5 sp V6 LS work or no??

A :)

When i said blow a head i meant literally blow a head. Have you ever seen the piston push right through, I did for my first time. Sorry I haven't got back to this thread, I actually forgot all about it. Well after the motor was rebuilt and all fixed up and by the way the charger on there was a kenne bell. The new rhp number on the dyno was 739, But there is some bad news to go with that. No matter how fast the car is and how nice women shouldn't drive them. Thanks to a certain little someone I no longer have that car, The woman took it out in the rain while i was at work and put it into a wall. The woman is ok but the car is a total loss. She only got to see a little over 12,000 miles.

You mean to tell me you had one of my dream cars and let a woman put her into a wall?

When i said blow a head i meant literally blow a head. Have you ever seen the piston push right through, I did for my first time. Sorry I haven't got back to this thread, I actually forgot all about it. Well after the motor was rebuilt and all fixed up and by the way the charger on there was a kenne bell. The new rhp number on the dyno was 739, But there is some bad news to go with that. No matter how fast the car is and how nice women shouldn't drive them. Thanks to a certain little someone I no longer have that car, The woman took it out in the rain while i was at work and put it into a wall. The woman is ok but the car is a total loss. She only got to see a little over 12,000 miles.


my ex totalled my 89gt the day my SC came for it. I was putting 397 to the ground with lowered compression. The wifey took her out for some quick errands. I got the packaged in the mail, and called her. "be right there" she says. Ten minuted later "ummm your gonna hate me" When I went to the accident in her POS focus..... I saw my car I saw her, then kept on driving. she found her own way home that night. And thats why I am now divorced.

I didn't let her drive the car, She kinda found the keys and took the car without my knowledge or permission. Thay's why she is an Ex and the fact that when the cops called me about the car I told them she stole it. I do have some pics around of it, I just got put them up on here.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/sully2582/STANG.jpg

Hey NHLSV8, just curious if you've made any progress. Did you ever get a good run on your bottle setup? I know winter is fast approaching you up there. Also, did you post pics of your custom intake yet?

I just looked at this thread and noticed the reference to me. Please note that although I'm running more than a 100 shot it's probably between 100-150. I use a completely separate fuel system to go with the N2O. And I use methanol in the fuel cell for the spray. The methanol is very forgiving of tuning details. I run quite rich on purpose.
KS

no not really! I wish. I may end up getting a run or two in down south before they close up for the year. I am working on a move right now so the LS is getting put on the back burner.

Ok update time. I havent done too much lately. As you can see from the sig, I'm running a larger N2O shot, but thats really about it. I have moved to canada for the winter and the LS is about to be taken off the road and get some major surgery. I am going to pull the motor and tranny out. I'm going to rip them both down completely for cleaning and inspection. If I can find a place to do the custom machining I'll get a new set of rods and pistons for the turbo build. I'm also looking to send my cams out to Comp for a set of custom ground FI cams. I have a line on a 31spline IRS from a cobra I'm looking to swap into the LS as well. If all goes as planned, I should be turboed and ready for serious boost by the time she gets put back together. ILLS and I have been discussing other ideas other than the turbo and flat out..... the power level that can be found in a nice turbo set up will destroy any other set up we've come up with. I have a few build ideas for people willing to do spend the time and money making a demonic LS. But if you figure 20hp per lb of boost, then the 400hp from 20lbs is something that even a 300 shot direct inject nitrous cant touch! The trick is going to be hooking up that power and sending it all the pavement. Possible ideas to help are 31 splines, 3" studs, drive shaft loop, aluminum drive shaft. I think I will avoid running all out slicks so the weakest link is traction instead of part of my car.




So far here is what I have planed:
Billet rods
billet pistons
billet crank
custom ground cams
tranny rebuild
31spline irs (needs new drive shaft)
PnP heads (4valves flow very well, but every bit counts)
beefed up head studs
new cylinder sleeves
stall converter
turbo or turbos
16" wheels with some serious width for MT ET streets



I know I'd like to have the 6spd tranny, but from what Ive seen, IRS cars hook much better with an auto so for the time being atleast, I'm going to stay with the auto and get a stall tuned for my power curve with the turbo.

I have more in mind, but I have to run for now.

also... I'm open to suggestions on tasteful ways to roll cage an LS.

are you doing this work yourself?

also... I'm open to suggestions on tasteful ways to roll cage an LS.



Have a close offroading buddy that has a TIG and MIG welder and is a person that pays attention to detail. ;)

roll cage for a 13 second car.. or is that for the twin turbo setup that your working on?

are you doing this work yourself?


which?
rebuild of the motor and tranny.... yup!
Rearend swap.... yup
internals and cam..... getting them made, and installing them myself
tuning.... :cough: ILLS :cough:
roll cage... i dont know yet. I'm worried about losing the luxury side of the LS

roll cage for a 13 second car.. or is that for the twin turbo setup that your working on?

who has a 13 second car? :gr_devil:

roll cage is required for cars running 11.49 or better

Have a close offroading buddy that has a TIG and MIG welder and is a person that pays attention to detail. ;)

i dont know.... know anyone with some of his work in their car? LMAO

cool - if you do it yourself - and all the learning that goes with it - it's a cool project!!!!

post all the pic you can!!

Stay clear of a roll cage unless you get into the

"A roll bar is required in any convertible running 13.49 seconds or quicker in the quarter mile, and in other cars beginning at 11.49. The roll bar is accepted in vehicles running as quick as 10.00 second e.t., provided the stock firewall and floorboard is intact, other than for installation of wheel tubs. "

"If the floor and/or firewall has been modified, then a full roll cage is required beginning at a 10.99 e.t. A full roll cage is required in any vehicle running 9.99 seconds or quicker, and any vehicle running 135 mph or faster (regardless of e.t.)."

it is extra weight and can be dangerous to your head when not wearing a helmet. I know of a few guys :shifty: that have been knocked silly on the roll bars on the street - scarey.....

cool - if you do it yourself - and all the learning that goes with it - it's a cool project!!!!

post all the pic you can!!

Stay clear of a roll cage unless you get into the

"A roll bar is required in any convertible running 13.49 seconds or quicker in the quarter mile, and in other cars beginning at 11.49. The roll bar is accepted in vehicles running as quick as 10.00 second e.t., provided the stock firewall and floorboard is intact, other than for installation of wheel tubs. "

"If the floor and/or firewall has been modified, then a full roll cage is required beginning at a 10.99 e.t. A full roll cage is required in any vehicle running 9.99 seconds or quicker, and any vehicle running 135 mph or faster (regardless of e.t.)."

it is extra weight and can be dangerous to your head when not wearing a helmet. I know of a few guys :shifty: that have been knocked silly on the roll bars on the street - scarey.....


LOU FTW!!!! I just checked it out and those quotes apply to the track I normally run at! Sweet, roll bar is do able!!!!

well - the point should be - not doable but manditory... right?

Rob.... talk to me bro!!!!!!!!!

http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/sportcompact/2008_SC_Rulebook.pdf
page 42.

I think you should not cage it. You are going to have it be more of a street car than track car anyways. And just like Lou said, caged street cars can be dangerous. That is even if you pad the hell out of them. I say try to function without a cage for now, and after the build. If you find yourself going to the track so often that it starts bothering you to not have one to be allowed to run your best then have it caged.

turn down the boost to run the track? LOL

turn down the boost to run the track? LOL



Nope, just let off at the 1/8th mile marker. Still get to see what the car runs at the track but don't break any rules either.

FWIW, you may want to check the pictures that start about post 12-14 or so in my 'Land Speed LS' thread. The rules are different in ECTA racing and I don't need more cage until I go over 175. (That's in one mile!)
KS