As you know, I had said a few months back that I was planning to do a custom turbo on the 2005 Lincoln LS this fall. Well I finished the build a little over a week ago and finally did some tuning on it and officially fired her up today. The custom progressive wet nitrous system I had on there has been taken off and the turbocharger system is on in its place. Here is the updated modlist for the car:

Custom Garrett T04E 60 Trim Turbo
Dual 3" turbo-back
FMIC
Tial 38mm WG
SCT Xcal2
Ford GT fuel pump
Cobra 39lb Injectors

I will be fully tuning it here shortly once I get a little more time to do the gauges and a little wiring that I want to finish up. Once it is fully tuned I will post a few driving video's. Sometime in the next few months I will probably be throwing it up on a dyno to see what it puts down for power. I plan on staying with 4 psi for the street and 6-7 psi at the track.

Here is the TURBOCHARGED LS BUILD VIDEO (http://media.putfile.com/Turbo-LS-Build-Video) with a little Linkin Park mixed in.

Here is the INITIAL STARTUP VIDEO (http://media.putfile.com/Turbo-LS-First-Startup) by itself.

The car sounds very mean while idling. Most normal computer speakers do not do it justice. I have tuned a few built 4.6 DOHC Mustang Cobra's in my day and in person it sounds extremely close to the exhaust note of one of them with an aftermarket exhaust. You cannot hear the turbo while at idle. Once I post a driving video you will be able to hear it though.

I will upload a few pictures of the build here soon as well.

Build progress pictures...

so you dont have a return pipe, u just drop it straight into the exhaust piping?

so you dont have a return pipe, u just drop it straight into the exhaust piping?


Drop what into the exhaust piping? :confused:

wow, cool man

Finally huh? Looks good man, I can't wait to see it in action and see some numbers.

Finally huh? Looks good man, I can't wait to see it in action and see some numbers.


Once I got to it the build only took right around 1.5 weeks from start to finish. Sometimes other things were forced to take precedence.

Other than the intake difference between the 00-02 and 03-06, do you see any reasons that this would be more difficult on a 2002 and prior LS. Same question for the tuning aspect. more difficult, less difficult, or the same? After you tune, dyno, and post numbers, I will be emailing you for customer cost. Also this being your first LS, how many hours do you have in?

Other than the intake difference between the 00-02 and 03-06, do you see any reasons that this would be more difficult on a 2002 and prior LS. Same question for the tuning aspect. more difficult, less difficult, or the same? After you tune, dyno, and post numbers, I will be emailing you for customer cost. Also this being your first LS, how many hours do you have in?



The intake difference will be negligable. In fact a VERY nice tube can be mated right up with the LSK CAI tube for the Gen1's and be just fine. Off the top of my head I cannot think of anything that will be really different from each generation in reference to their ability to be turbocharged. I believe the Gen1 LS did have air entrained fuel injectors so that will have to be dealt with. I have not done it personally but that is likely to be as easy as a fuel rail swap from a Gen2 LS with maybe a few small extra's.

From a tuning aspect they will be similar too. There are some key differences when it comes to tuning between the Gen1 and Gen 2 LS. Some of which are: Slot-in MAF vs old style MAF, TBW vs regular throttle cable, and maybe a few others that I might be forgetting right now. If I think of any other key aspects that would extremely different from a tuning perspective I will update this post. Either way both Gen's are tunable for this stuff.

Please PM me or any answers to the other stuff you mentioned. I am trying to follow forums rules as much as possible being that I am not a vendor here yet.

Prototyping always take much much longer than every system after that. There is allot of design and redesign that takes place in that stage versus when a system has already been built for a vehicle. By my rough figures I probably have about 75 hours into the prototype.

Looks really good. based on your knowledge. Do you think the v6 LS could see a great improvement with a turbo kit. Or would it be a waste of time?

Looks really good. based on your knowledge. Do you think the v6 LS could see a great improvement with a turbo kit. Or would it be a waste of time?

A turbo would greatly benefit it assuming the engine and trans are in good operating order. Your cars have a few more initial options for a stronger built bottom end than the 3.9 V8's do. Any engine work on the V8 is bound to be one-off custom. Your V6 shares allot with other engines which would allow it to be built to hold some really good power. Even in totally stock form the V6 should hold to some decent power.

there is a God!

yes, yes, yes, HELLL YEA its about time some one did it, post some numbers and tell us how much will it cost us for you to do it for us........ and hurry up xmas is just around the corner.

I LOVE IT!!! and if they decide to make a turbo kit for the LS...COUNT ME IN!!!!

I LOVE IT!!! and if they decide to make a turbo kit for the LS...COUNT ME IN!!!!



I might do the occasional turbo system but it will have to be in person on a request basis. A pre-made bolt-in kit is not going to be in the works for many reasons previously stated in other threads and on other forums. Sorry for the news. There is another option available to you. PM me if you want more info on that.

B-b-but I can't drive all the way to illinois.

B-b-but I can't drive all the way to illinois.

Ever heard of using a car transport?

i deffinetly want to see some dyno numbers...if its not around 400RWHP...i dont think i can justify it, even tho id REALLY REALLY like to be able too

cant believe i nearly missed it... congrats man, f'in awesome.

i deffinetly want to see some dyno numbers...if its not around 400RWHP...i dont think i can justify it, even tho id REALLY REALLY like to be able too



Sorry but I am keeping the boost lower. I do not want to push past 375rwhp for now. If more power is made than what I am looking for then the boost will be reduced. The turbo system easily has the capability to make 425-450 rwhp but I am not going to push the stock engine that far.

you cant justify a 100 hp gain? lol, are you out of your mind?

i used to own 2 fbody's. one was a bolt on 94 LT1 6 speed. just bolt on's and was making around 340 crank hp. the other was a 1987 trans am GTA, fully built engine, stall convertor, Lt1 heads/cam, LT1 intake. made around 430hp at the crank.

375RWHP is not a 100hp gain. these cars put down what like 210-220 stock to the rear wheels. so thats 155-ish gain to the wheels.

i could be happy with a 375RWHP LS

Anyone can do mustang mods... I give him props for doing what no one else has done. This is also a full custom modification, not some prebuilt kit that the 16 year old down the street can order on line and bolt on his mustang over the weekend. This should be faster than any other LS out there right now (unless cammerfe actually gives us some proof of his 700HP blown and sprayed LS), and that is what is impressive to me. To be the best in it's class.

Awesome job, man. Can;t wait for tax return time :D

Wonder whose puts down more HP, QuikLS or ILLS?

Anyone can do mustang mods... I give him props for doing what no one else has done. This is also a full custom modification, not some prebuilt kit that the 16 year old down the street can order on line and bolt on his mustang over the weekend. This should be faster than any other LS out there right now (unless cammerfe actually gives us some proof of his 700HP blown and sprayed LS), and that is what is impressive to me. To be the best in it's class.

Awesome job, man. Can;t wait for tax return time :D


Though I do work on Mustang's too it does end up being too easy. It just isn't any challenge if all you have to do is bolt pre-made parts in. That is why I did the Kenne Bell supercharger plus many many many other crazy mods on the 4.6 SOHC V8 Explorer and also why I did the Turbo on the LS. Custom work is just too fun.





Wonder whose puts down more HP, QuikLS or ILLS?



A turbo is MUCH more efficient than a roots blower per pound of boost. Mine will make much more power and do it more safely. Don't get me wrong, Quik's project is admirable but facts are facts.

^a race is the only way to tell(and take videos). jk. not really.

^a race is the only way to tell(and take videos). jk. not really.



If that car is ever in my neck of the woods something could be setup; at the dragstrip obviously. ;) I doubt that would ever happen, but the offer is out there.

thats great man! mad props. now im keeping this car for sure and using that 4k down payment for a lil boost.

It looks to me like you put the turbo in the rear quarter, is this correct?

It looks to me like you put the turbo in the rear quarter, is this correct?



Yes, it is remote mounted.

This has seriously made my day! Great job on this project! Keep us informed on how tuning goes, etc!

Just plain awesome....This is what I have been looking for!

I can has turbo?

Did you have a blow-off valve anywhere?

Did you have a blow-off valve anywhere?

A BOV is more critical in a manual transmission application. Its function is to temporarily vent unmetered boost to the atmosphere while getting off the gas and shifting the transmission. What this accomplishes is allowing the turbo to freespool (coast) so that when you get back on the gas you are already spooled.

Having a BOV in an auto trans vehicle is not necessary because when the car shifts our foot is still firmly planted on the gas pedal which is keeping the throttle blade fully open and allowing the air to still rush into the engine. Eventually I might install one, but that is in the future.

Quik's is setup for autocross I think. But I'd love to see what 1/4 mile numbers yours puts down.

How long do you think the engine will last, this has to severly decrease engine life right? Even if it's a modest amount of boost it's still a small 3.9 engine.

Second why a Garrett turbo specifically? What makes that special that you chose it?

And third what is the gas mileage like with a fuel pump out of a 5.4L car and 39lb injectors?

Im not pretending I know anything about any of what your doing. I'm just interested in all this, trying to learn. Beleive me I have an extreme amount of respect for you for doing this. Not only that but Quik's project is going on like 2-3 years now and there is no way all that custom work will ever be manufacture in a kit and we still haven't heard numbers, just the supercharger whine. You manage to put together a working kit in under a month or two? And show numbers, and possibly have it ready for manufacture within the next decade.

You manage to put together a working kit in under a month or two? And show numbers, and possibly have it ready for manufacture within the next decade.

I talked to Rob the day the car went up in the air, stopped down the 2nd or 3rd working day and talked to him several times during the rest. I had the pics right after they were taken:D. From going in the air to start up was a few days more than 3 weeks but I know he did not work on it for nearly a whole week after the dirty stuff was done and did a few days work on a Customers vehicle near the start. Probably took a days break a few times too. I'd say it was done in under 2 weeks technically.

Bravo.

The neat thing about the remote mount turbo is that there isnt a whole lot of rediculous custom work. Im guessing most of the time was spent on plumbing and tuning.

Cant wait for some driving vids. The only thing I didnt like about the remote mount is the positioning of the air intake without more tubing. any plans to reroute that away from any possible debris or water? Into the fender, etc?

Quik's is setup for autocross I think. But I'd love to see what 1/4 mile numbers yours puts down.

How long do you think the engine will last, this has to severly decrease engine life right? Even if it's a modest amount of boost it's still a small 3.9 engine.

Second why a Garrett turbo specifically? What makes that special that you chose it?

And third what is the gas mileage like with a fuel pump out of a 5.4L car and 39lb injectors?

Im not pretending I know anything about any of what your doing. I'm just interested in all this, trying to learn. Beleive me I have an extreme amount of respect for you for doing this. Not only that but Quik's project is going on like 2-3 years now and there is no way all that custom work will ever be manufacture in a kit and we still haven't heard numbers, just the supercharger whine. You manage to put together a working kit in under a month or two? And show numbers, and possibly have it ready for manufacture within the next decade.



Orvided the tune is safe the engine should last a while. The displacement of the engine has zero bearing on its potential life when boosted. I already have a race vehicle so I plan to take it easy on this one. It will be tuned safely and should last a while.

Garrett is one of the best and highest quality manufacturers of turbos out there today.

Gas mileage should be just fine with the Ford GT supercar pump and the Cobra 39 lb injectors. As long as the A/F's are good to go and I am not stomping on the gas then it will get similar mileage to stock. Just a liiiiitle bit worse, but nothing huge. Now obviously when I stomp on the gas my gas mileage will decrease significantly, but I am not on the gas pedal that often.

Update:

Tuning- Did some tuning today. The part throttle and WOT A/F's are dialed in. Right now I have it set to only hit 2 psi of boost. Even on that low of boost and with tons of spark timing pulled it still pulls pretty hard. The turbo spools real well. If I have time tomorrow I might add a little bit of timing back in to see what it does. To be honest usually all the timing pulled (for safety reasons) while tuning will make even a 700 hp vehicle feel like a dog. Not really the case here. ;) I am looking forward to getting this boost setting dialed in and then slowly adding more boost from there until I am satisfied while still safe.

Exhaust Note- Today was the first day I went over 1/4 throttle with it. I made about 15 WOT pulls, 5 of which were actually during tuning and the other 10 just for personal enjoyment. The sound is VERY respectable. Great combo of aggressive exhaust sound and turbo whistle. I did a little tuning on a friends built, blown, cammed 01 Cobra this last summer and I am surprised at how similar the exhaust sound is between the two engines.

Lookin' good, man. Lookin' good!

What's out there for the STS as far as keeping the air filter from getting soaking wet on a daily driver? Custom shield, box, etc.?

lets see a WOT run on video?!

Lookin' good, man. Lookin' good!

What's out there for the STS as far as keeping the air filter from getting soaking wet on a daily driver? Custom shield, box, etc.?



There is a filter shield that goes for $35. Another option is the Outerwears Drycharger "sock" that goes over the filter itself to keep water and debris away. That retails for $29.

lets see a WOT run on video?!

Eventually I will.

There is a filter shield that goes for $35. Another option is the Outerwears Drycharger "sock" that goes over the filter itself to keep water and debris away. That retails for $29.

Awesome. Good to know! :cool:

Tuning- Did some tuning today. The part throttle and WOT A/F's are dialed in. Right now I have it set to only hit 2 psi of boost. Even on that low of boost and with tons of spark timing pulled it still pulls pretty hard.


You had to pull tons of timing on 2psi with the A/F dialed in correctly? Is the reason due to the 3.9s high compression ratio?

You had to pull tons of timing on 2psi with the A/F dialed in correctly? Is the reason due to the 3.9s high compression ratio?





No, no, no... I pulled tons of timing because that is what you do to keep a motor safe while dialing in the AFR's in such a different combo. Once the AFR's are dialed in then you add the timing back in. Retarding the timing like that while dialing the AFR's in is the safest way to keep things together and the heads from lifting if a little too lean when creating a totally new MAF Transfer function from scratch. Though the AFR's are dialed in I am still in testing phase so I am not planning to add the timing back in till I feel comfortable that everything else is perfect. I could likely add it back in right now and be fine, but I am a perfectionist. ;)

This is awsome!!!! I can't wait till this all done and can see about doing this to a V6. This is HOT!!!!!!

Are there any Pros or cons to a remote mount turbo?
You'll probably want to shield that before too long to keep the heat from melting your bumper. :p Ive always leaned more towards a Turbo than a Blower as the best way to add power. They're easier to hook up, make better power when tuned properly, and turbos just sound so cool once you get them spooled up. Great job man!

Are there any Pros or cons to a remote mount turbo?
You'll probably want to shield that before too long to keep the heat from melting your bumper. :p Ive always leaned more towards a Turbo than a Blower as the best way to add power. They're easier to hook up, make better power when tuned properly, and turbos just sound so cool once you get them spooled up. Great job man!

There are always pro's and con's to any route taken in the performance world. Remote mounted turbos are no different. I will post 3 of each; but the list is surely not limited to just what I post here.

Pro:

1) Much higher boost cooling affect due to longer intake tube and undercar (cool area) location thus decreasing need for IC and increasing power made per pound of boost.

2) Turbo mounted out of engine bay allowing more room underhood to work on the engine without having to pull the entire turbo system. Keeping the turbo out of the engine bay also keep heat down significantly which increases the lifespan of various underhood components.

3) Being remote mounted will allow certain vehicles to be turbocharged with much more ease than if a front mount system was attempted. The LS does fall into this category as a vehicle with very little extra room in the engine bay to put a turbo. I have taken measurements and it is doable, but just not practical from a benefits to labor standpoint.

Con's:

1) Slightly more spool time than front mount; though when sized properly this is not really a problem. The turbo system I designed spools very quickly.

2) Turbo is slightly more exposed to elements. This is not very critical with street driven vehicles but becomes more important with vehicles taken offroad and into water hazards.

3) Some people like to see a turbo in their engine bay and prefer a front mount so that they (and others) can see what they have when opening the hood.



I do this stuff for a living. I believe I am able to determine if a turbo is too close to a bumper that would cause heat issues. Heat issues like what you mention were thought of and taken care of long ago in the pre-planning stages of this build. Comments like that are not really required here. That would be like Joe Schmo giving sword fighting tips to a Samurai...just not needed.

Turbo's are usually not easier to install than a blower. A centri blower you just bolt on usually in about 8 hours; a turbo requires more work digging into the exhaust in addition to allot of other items which can take up to 16-20 hours even for a kit. However, if you are referring to both being fully custom installs then the blower can rate high in the metal fabrication area just like a custom turbo too but even then it is a totally different kind of metal fabrication. The centri needing mounting bracketry (water jetting or CNC machining) and some intake ducting, the turbo needing custom exhaust work and intake work (allot of custom tubing mandrel bends and welding). And of course if you do a custom roots or twin screw blower then the name of the game is a custom fabricated lower intake manifold which obviously requires allot of work. All have similarities and all still have their inherent differences. My advice given if a person would want to go with a turbo, a centrifugal supercharger or a positive displacement blower is more based upon their intended use, the vehicle which they intend to use it on and what kind of power they are looking for rather than sheer peak power. Turbo wins hands down from a peak power standpoint; but that is not the end all be all of peformance uses for a vehicle. Different strokes for different folks.

I wanted to upgrade to used S-Type R or 08 WRX STI, but this is interesting.

How much would it cost to do it to mine?
I live by O'Hare. I would love to see it and get a ride.

ILLS, I don't live to far from you. Up in Detroit.
I have a 2006 LS. Are you at the point to where you can quote a price to do our cars? If so can you send me a private message?

Thanks.

ILLS, I don't live to far from you. Up in Detroit.
I have a 2006 LS. Are you at the point to where you can quote a price to do our cars? If so can you send me a private message?

Thanks.



I prefer not to do any business on this site as I am not a vendor here yet. Please email me with any questions you may have and we can talk offline.

hey i want to do that and the 2 local custom shops arent taking me serious how much would u or whover did that charge for me to drop the car off and come pick it up tuned and ready to run? i already have a tuned sct xcal2 in the car.

Back several posts, ILLS made a key statement. He said, "I am a perfectionist."

Now take that statement, and put it in the context of this thread. He's working on an engine that is stock internally. It has cast pistons and sintered rods. That means that the pistons are marginal for more than about 400 HP which is the output of the 4.2 Jag R engine that is a close relative of the 3.9. The sintered rods are 'forged' in the sense that they are heated and pressed. However, they don't start as a rod blank, but as a handful of granules of ferrous material like a double scoop of sugar. Though a wonderful way of making a production part, they are far less than optimal for performance applications.

The T04 turbo he's using will likely make more than twenty pounds of boost in his application. And the engine design will quite easily take the 600+ HP he'd get from doing so. But the pistons and rods wouldn't take it for long. Perfectionists don't waste an engine just to make a number.

JMO;)
KenS from Ben's Place

Back several posts, ILLS made a key statement. He said, "I am a perfectionist."

Now take that statement, and put it in the context of this thread. He's working on an engine that is stock internally. It has cast pistons and sintered rods. That means that the pistons are marginal for more than about 400 HP which is the output of the 4.2 Jag R engine that is a close relative of the 3.9. The sintered rods are 'forged' in the sense that they are heated and pressed. However, they don't start as a rod blank, but as a handful of granules of ferrous material like a double scoop of sugar. Though a wonderful way of making a production part, they are far less than optimal for performance applications.

The T04 turbo he's using will likely make more than twenty pounds of boost in his application. And the engine design will quite easily take the 600+ HP he'd get from doing so. But the pistons and rods wouldn't take it for long. Perfectionists don't waste an engine just to make a number.

JMO;)
KenS from Ben's Place




You are absolutely spot on. A perfectionist is a bad person to have as a boss, but a great person to have doing work for you.

Is the turbo in the rear?

How reliable is THIS application for an everyday driver? (snow, ice, rain, you know.. what you can have on the road everyday on the way to work.)

Do you have plans to engineer this so it would work for a daily driver, if no is the answer for the previous question?

I love my LS, but I want something with more power. If the LS can have more power and be a daily driver I would rather keep it than getting a different car. Also, I don't want the LS to become a trailer queen.

Back several posts, ILLS made a key statement. He said, "I am a perfectionist."

Now take that statement, and put it in the context of this thread. He's working on an engine that is stock internally. It has cast pistons and sintered rods. That means that the pistons are marginal for more than about 400 HP which is the output of the 4.2 Jag R engine that is a close relative of the 3.9. The sintered rods are 'forged' in the sense that they are heated and pressed. However, they don't start as a rod blank, but as a handful of granules of ferrous material like a double scoop of sugar. Though a wonderful way of making a production part, they are far less than optimal for performance applications.

The T04 turbo he's using will likely make more than twenty pounds of boost in his application. And the engine design will quite easily take the 600+ HP he'd get from doing so. But the pistons and rods wouldn't take it for long. Perfectionists don't waste an engine just to make a number.

JMO;)
KenS from Ben's Place

So the THINGS you mention are the same in the LS and supercharged S-Type R and that is why they can take 400 HP and be reliable?

If LS can have 400HP and be reliable, its good enough for me.

Back several posts, ILLS made a key statement. He said, "I am a perfectionist."

Now take that statement, and put it in the context of this thread. He's working on an engine that is stock internally.

Yes, because heavens forbid that someone build a motor that is actually affordable, reliable, and reasonable.

Being a perfectionist and being someone who wants to spend a tremendous amount of money don't necessarily have anything to do with each other.

Also, do not forget, one of the greatest turbocharger engineers who ever walked once said "don't rush off to the forged piston store."

Your comments are very valid -- forged pistons and better rods could make all the difference in building a huge power beast. I don't think that ILLS intentions are to make a huge power beast. And, being a perfectionist doesn't mean that you are required to build a huge power beast. It just means that everything you DO do should be perfect ;)

Yes, because heavens forbid that someone build a motor that is actually affordable, reliable, and reasonable.

Being a perfectionist and being someone who wants to spend a tremendous amount of money don't necessarily have anything to do with each other.

Also, do not forget, one of the greatest turbocharger engineers who ever walked once said "don't rush off to the forged piston store."

Your comments are very valid -- forged pistons and better rods could make all the difference in building a huge power beast. I don't think that ILLS intentions are to make a huge power beast. And, being a perfectionist doesn't mean that you are required to build a huge power beast. It just means that everything you DO do should be perfect ;)


It does in my book. Why build a combo and tune it to a level that makes it volatile and wasteful of a good stock engine? Doing that is just being wasteful for the sake of being wasteful or making a number one time on the dyno and that is it. Heck, I could throw the LS on the dyno tomorrow with the boost controller turned up to 20 psi and rip off 600+rwhp for one or two pulls (assuming the fuel system and MAFS were up to the task). It would hold together for a bit, but not long. People who are cavalier like that just to make a number are usually that way with their customers cars too. They take risks at their customers expense. That is bad business and definitely not the level of service I offer. In that way I view it as being a perfectionist because I am testing the vehicle to its reasonable usable limits because that is what my people will want as well.

I already have a big power beast that is only going to get more powerful this winter so that tends to take the brunt of my performance aspirations. The LS is not intended for that just yet. However, there is a possibility that I will build a custom bottom end for this car, have the trans built by Level Ten and turn the wick up to 15+psi and lay down some mid 11 second passes. That is all tentative at the moment based upon other shop vehicles that I may purchase in the near future.

Sorry but I am keeping the boost lower. I do not want to push past 375rwhp for now. If more power is made than what I am looking for then the boost will be reduced. The turbo system easily has the capability to make 425-450 rwhp but I am not going to push the stock engine that far.

So the power YOU are looking for is 375RWHP?
Am I interpreting this right?

So the power YOU are looking for is 375RWHP?
Am I interpreting this right?

I am looking for 360rwhp. If I hit 375rwhp then I will probably turn the boost back down to stay at around 360rwhp until I complete a long term test and feel confident enough in the LS engine to possibly push further. I am doing this to ensure that things are kept as safe as I can make it on the stock bottom end.

Sounds good.

How would you define a "long term test"?

I got to ride in it....haha.

I got to ride in it....haha.

One time I saw a man took away a candy from a kid, but this is meaner than that

Sounds good.

How would you define a "long term test"?



I would define that as a good solid month on the road and in various cruise, load and acceleration conditions. Unfortunately, that it totally dependent on the weather agreeing with me; which is highly unlikely this time of year. The kind of testing I am doing is something that cannot be performed on a regular dyno with accurate results. I will do the winter testing, probably throw it on a dyno to satiate people wanting a "result" in number form and then put it away to focus on a much bigger and much more important vehicle project for a while. Then when the weather gets warm out again I plan to break it out for summer testing in the conditions a vehicle like this will normally see to ensure things are still perfect and of course take it to the track with the intent of hitting 12's with it. Proper custom tuning does take different weather into account, but there can still be small X factors that may come into play when tuning a blown combination which is why I take my tuning on any yet to be proven combination methodically. Overcautious??? Absolutely! ;) But the end result will be worth it.

Honestly I feel confident in the combination in its current form to allow other people the opportunity to do something similar. I am just very particular with my personal vehicles which is why I do so much testing. As a business owner I also owe it to my customers to do that.

As a business owner I also owe it to my customers to do that.

That is the best attitude to have to bring repeat and happy customers to your business for years to come. :cool:

TO: ILLS
I've noticed around here somewhere a comment by you that leads me to believe that you look on the 6 cylinder engine as having a better 'bottom end' than the V-8. Am I correct in this assumption? If so, why? Thanks!
KenS from Ben's Place

@ILLS - exactly. Anyone can make 1000hp for one pass, ha!

Can't wait to see the final results, though. The build is impressive so far.

TO: ILLS
I've noticed around here somewhere a comment by you that leads me to believe that you look on the 6 cylinder engine as having a better 'bottom end' than the V-8. Am I correct in this assumption? If so, why? Thanks!
KenS from Ben's Place

The DOHC 3.0 V6 in the LS's have a forged steel crank from the factory and also share allot of parts with various other Ford, Mazda, and Noble engines. While they may or may not be stronger directly from the factory it is my personal belief that the V6 will be easier/cheaper to build for higher power due to what it all shares with other vehicles. One drawback to the V6 route is the transmission. To my knowledge the V6 trans doesn't have much in the way of aftermarket for the trans. Hopefully I am wrong in this. The 3.9 V8 does have a full build available for their transmissions as they are brethren to the S-197 Mustang, and 02-05 Explorer transmissions already being rebuilt by Level Ten to hold 700+hp.

I thought the v6 tranny was the same as the v8? If not which one does the v6 cars have

I thought the v6 tranny was the same as the v8? If not which one does the v6 cars have

Sorry, big brain fart. For some reason I was thinking of the M5 V6 tranny, not the auto. Oh well, it happens.

Let's hope that brain doesn't fart out during tuning:p

Let's hope that brain doesn't fart out during tuning:p

Was that meant to be a shot at me or purely just a joke? I know that you put a smiley afterwards, but your statement had a very sarcastic tone to it. Well, as much tone as a person can decipher while looking at text.

The car is already more or less fully tuned anyways. I am past that and into testing phase now with the smaller WG spring.

What's a WG spring and WHY is it smaller?

Was that meant to be a shot at me or purely just a joke? I know that you put a smiley afterwards, but your statement had a very sarcastic tone to it. Well, as much tone as a person can decipher while looking at text.

It was a joke. That's what the smiley's are for.:cool:

so is all the exhaust coming out of the passenger side pipe or did you split it kinda like 2 to one, in turbo, out turbo into 2 again? sound confusing but wait I don't even know y I asked that ITS A TURBOCHARGED LS!!!:eek: who cares its awsome...

It was a joke. That's what the smiley's are for.:cool:


Trust me, there are other uses for smiley's besides jokes. This guy probably meant it in a joke so that is fine.

so is all the exhaust coming out of the passenger side pipe or did you split it kinda like 2 to one, in turbo, out turbo into 2 again? sound confusing but wait I don't even know y I asked that ITS A TURBOCHARGED LS!!!:eek: who cares its awsome...




Just as you said. I split the exhaust after the turbo so that both exhaust pipes coming out the back are operational. Looks better and much better flow out of the turbo which means less spool time. Thanks for the compliments.

Trust me, there are other uses for smiley's besides jokes. This guy probably meant it in a joke so that is fine.

I've been around forums like this for a long time, I know very well the uses for them. Nothing wrong with a little ball breaking in jest.:shifty:

Now hurry up and get that thing down the 1320 :D

Now hurry up and get that thing down the 1320 :D

That's not going to happen anytime soon. Winter is setting in and with all the really cold days I am sure the track is closed. The car doesn't hook for crap anyways, even while running just 2.5 psi so the LSD and DR's are necessary.

I know, I know. Put a turbo on Mother Nature and speed it up :D

Was that meant to be a shot at me or purely just a joke? I know that you put a smiley afterwards, but your statement had a very sarcastic tone to it. Well, as much tone as a person can decipher while looking at text.

The car is already more or less fully tuned anyways. I am past that and into testing phase now with the smaller WG spring.

Just joking man, no disrespect.

What's a WG spring and WHY is it smaller?

What's a WG spring and WHY is it smaller?

waste gate, and its to change the psi that the gate opens at

What's a WG spring and WHY is it smaller?



Like chicken said, it regulates the amount of boost. A "smaller" WG spring isn't physically smaller (in this case) but it does compress easier, which allows less boost to be made before the WG opens and starts regulating max pressure by allowing exhaust gasses to bypass the turbo thus slowing it down and producing less boost. The WG valve cycles like this all the time at whatever given pressure that the spring is rated for which keeps boost at a constant once the turbo is spooled.

Thanks for clearing that up. Here in Detroit, I have my choice of crank cores for $75 each. I had some degree of concern regarding a cast crank, but a long-time friend has been running an FE engine with a 6-71 for more than 10 years on the street and has made several hundred WOT drag passes with a 390 cast crank. Since he told me that, and I discovered the girdle-type main bearing arrangement of the V-8, I decided not to worry about it. The only alternative is a billet anyway, unless the 5.0 litre English engine uses a forging.

You're more cautious than I am, but I'm extremely glad to be following you!
KenS from Ben's Place

The only alternative is a billet anyway, unless the 5.0 litre English engine uses a forging.


I just took a look at my email archive. Oliver racing quoted me at $2,744 for a custom billet crank for the LS and $250 per billet connecting rod. That was back in Jan 2005.

Hey man very nice set up you got. Isn't the turbo supposed to be connected to the exhaust manifold.. I bet the car won't even stick to the floor wit the advance-trac off...
Nice job

Hey man very nice set up you got. Isn't the turbo supposed to be connected to the exhaust manifold.


Thanks.

Not with a remote turbo setup. Front mounted turbo's usually connect to the exhaust manifold, or just barely off of it. Just different approaches to the same result.

I just took a look at my email archive. Oliver racing quoted me at $2,744 for a custom billet crank for the LS and $250 per billet connecting rod. That was back in Jan 2005.
As I said above, I'm exploring the options for strengthening the bottom end of the V-8. I expect to use aluminum rods designed for a small-block 'chibbie'. They're available with a 2 inch diameter big end---turn the LS crank slightly undersize---and in an infinite variety of lengths. Custom pistons are also readily available, so the placement and diameter of the gudgeon pin is no problem.
KenS from Ben's Place

As I said above, I'm exploring the options for strengthening the bottom end of the V-8. I expect to use aluminum rods designed for a small-block 'chibbie'. They're available with a 2 inch diameter big end---turn the LS crank slightly undersize---and in an infinite variety of lengths. Custom pistons are also readily available, so the placement and diameter of the gudgeon pin is no problem.
KenS from Ben's Place

Do you intend to stay stock bore on your engine or plan to hog it out a little?

Do you intend to stay stock bore on your engine or plan to hog it out a little?

I believe there is so little wear in the bores that honing may be all that's necessary. If that's true, I'll have pistons made to fit that finished size. Taking unnecessary cylinder wall may make the engine slightly larger, but it's my belief that the right way to build a supercharged engine or a 'sprayed' engine is to make the mechanical bits of the engine as strong as humanly possible and with mild cam timing etc. That way, the engine is amenable to daily driving without fussiness, and with enough boost and/or spray get all the power you want. I'll readily give up a few cubic inches for stronger cylinder walls. By the way, have you noticed that the water jackets extend only about an-inch-and-a-fraction from the deck? Everything below that is solid. 'Hardblok' from the factory!

KenS from Ben's Place

I believe there is so little wear in the bores that honing may be all that's necessary. If that's true, I'll have pistons made to fit that finished size. Taking unnecessary cylinder wall may make the engine slightly larger, but it's my belief that the right way to build a supercharged engine or a 'sprayed' engine is to make the mechanical bits of the engine as strong as humanly possible and with mild cam timing etc. That way, the engine is amenable to daily driving without fussiness, and with enough boost and/or spray get all the power you want. I'll readily give up a few cubic inches for stronger cylinder walls. By the way, have you noticed that the water jackets extend only about an-inch-and-a-fraction from the deck? Everything below that is solid. 'Hardblok' from the factory!

KenS from Ben's Place




I stayed stock bore stock stroke on my built 4.6 V8 for my other vehicle also. Same concept, if I want more power I will throw more boost at it.

Is the T-04 water and oil cooled? Saw the nice braided hose in the pics. With the amount of plumbing you have (exhaust to the back, boost to the front) I'm surprised you don't have considerable lag. Guessing the that the cooling benefits and denser air charge of not having the turbo mounted directly to the manifold must compensate..... maybe some people enjoy the warm glow of an underhood turbo after a spirited drive...lol. May your engine run trouble free and never knock...Nice fab work.

Is the T-04 water and oil cooled? Saw the nice braided hose in the pics. With the amount of plumbing you have (exhaust to the back, boost to the front) I'm surprised you don't have considerable lag. Guessing the that the cooling benefits and denser air charge of not having the turbo mounted directly to the manifold must compensate..... maybe some people enjoy the warm glow of an underhood turbo after a spirited drive...lol. May your engine run trouble free and never knock...Nice fab work.



Just oil cooled, as most aftermarket turbo's are. Usually only OEM turbo systems are water cooled.

The problem with people thinking remote turbo's are laggy is because you size a turbo for a remote system differently than a front mounted system. Remote mounting is new enough that people do not get that concept and run the wrong turbo and get lag. When sized properly a remote will spool very quickly. I can be cruising and tap the throttle and already hear the turbo spooling. The needle on the boost gauge reflects that responsiveness also. Having a longer exhaust pipe for the gasses to travel in before hitting the turbine, and having a longer intake tube would lead most people to believe that there would be allot of lag. But when you factor in the sheer amount of airmass that the engine is moving, that additional "space" in the tubing that needs to "fill up with air" becomes very small. Remote turbo's are fairly new to the performance scene. Until more people have real world, firsthand experience with them people will continue to have inaccurate information on them. Just the way things work in this industry. The same can be said with the newer systems coming online that have twin turbo's feeding into a roots supercharger. 99% of people do not understand how that works and will automatically call it crap. However, they usually change their tune when you toss them a dyno sheet showing 1,000+ horsepower made from a combo like that. :cool:

I'm glad to see someone taking the time to develop this. Having owned 3 factory turbo vehicles,(2 saab 900's, 1 dodge daytona), I know how much of a joy it can be to drive. You are correct that I have absolutely no knowledge of remote turbo setups, and it's nice to learn some new things through your thread. The applications of this turbo setup seems pretty much unlimited, assuming the bottom end of the block can handle the added power. Hope she runs well for you. Keep us posted on your progress...(after the snow passes).

(after the snow passes).



No kidding. We had about 5"-6" last night locally. Aaaaah winter. :rolleyes:

No kidding. We had about 5"-6" last night locally. Aaaaah winter. :rolleyes:

So driving thru and on the snow is not a problem for your Turbo LS setup?

(My LS is lowered so sometimes I gotta punch, WILL get stuck when do it slowly, thru 1' or higher snowbank to get out of my alley after they plow the main street)

I would imagine there would be a way to make a housing for the charger itself to protect it from the elements. Ive never played with a remote mount, but cant imagine it would get too hot. You could wrap the hell out of it with insulation wrap and route the intake and filter out of the way to keep it out of the elements.

Have you guys tested the operational temps of the turbo as its back there?

~Bryce

So driving thru and on the snow is not a problem for your Turbo LS setup?

(My LS is lowered so sometimes I gotta punch, WILL get stuck when do it slowly, thru 1' or higher snowbank to get out of my alley after they plow the main street)




This thing will hopefully never see snow again if I can help it. I finally got a winter 4x4 vehicle this year so I am keeping the LS in the garage for the winter; besides the occasional drive on milder days. I am sure a little snow would not hurt it, but I am not taking a chance of hitting an ice patch and spinning the car to find out. ;) I drove the LS last winter and it was not fun. I would have garaged the LS this winter regardless of the turbo going on.

Since you mention that you are lowered I will mention one thing that may be a buzzkill for allot of you that are lowered and may be thinking you want to do a remote turbo in the future. While I have routed the intake tubing in a way that will allow the best ground clearance, I do not suggest doing a system like this on a lowered car. The 2" intake tubing routing below the car does affect ground clearance a bit; but on a stock height car it is manageable. However, that in conjunction with a lowering kit would be too low for comfort in my opinion.




I would imagine there would be a way to make a housing for the charger itself to protect it from the elements. Ive never played with a remote mount, but cant imagine it would get too hot. You could wrap the hell out of it with insulation wrap and route the intake and filter out of the way to keep it out of the elements.

Have you guys tested the operational temps of the turbo as its back there?

~Bryce



A housing could be made, but I do not think it is necessary. While the turbo does get really warm after a long drive, it gets nowhere near as hot as it would in a front mounted application. After a drive I could put my hand directly onto the turbine housing itself and keep it there for a few seconds before having to take it off. On a front mounted turbo the instant you touch the turbine housing your hand is burnt. Big difference in operating temps.

So, basically, turbo LS can't see rain/snow or any bad weather. It can only be driven on "dry" days or something MECHANICALLY will break. (I am not talking about having traction issues as one can drive slower to be able to stop and turn in time. I've seen FWD, AWD cars and SUVs spin out, abandoned on the side of the road when I drove my LS in the same winter weather).
I take the "little snow" as in ALL snow plowed from the road and driving on a dry salt covered road in cold weather.
Am I right?
I am not familiar with turbos and don't know if they can get wet, or be suddenly covered in much cooler snow/water.

I do have the OEM springs to bring the suspension back to stock. Your location in IL makes it even more tempting (haven't checked the price yet ;), but I want to be able to drive it everyday, anytime. I don't think I can call in sick to work cuz there is snow/water on the road and still be employed there.

So, basically, turbo LS can't see rain/snow or any bad weather. It can only be driven on "dry" days or something MECHANICALLY will break. (I am not talking about having traction issues as one can drive slower to be able to stop and turn in time. I've seen FWD, AWD cars and SUVs spin out, abandoned on the side of the road when I drove my LS in the same winter weather).
I take the "little snow" as in ALL snow plowed from the road and driving on a dry salt covered road in cold weather.
Am I right?
I am not familiar with turbos and don't know if they can get wet, or be suddenly covered in much cooler snow/water.

I do have the OEM springs to bring the suspension back to stock. Your location in IL makes it even more tempting (haven't checked the price yet ;), but I want to be able to drive it everyday, anytime. I don't think I can call in sick to work cuz there is snow/water on the road and still be employed there.




Jesus man did you actually read what I wrote in my last post? Nothing mechanical with the turbo or anything associated with it is preventing the LS from seeing snow or rain. Heck, I drove it in the rain when I was testing it one day with no hiccups. The filter may be in the rear of the car but its location is still fairly protected from the elements. What I was saying is that I CHOOSE not to drive it in the snow as it is just not the greatest winter vehicle. I even noted that my choice for not running it in the winter did not have anything to do with the turbo. If a person chose to do so, they could run their turbocharged LS in 2-3" of snow and likely be just fine; especially if a little guard plate were covering the bottom of the filter. I do not consider running any LS in that deep of snow to be smart, but it is easily doable from the turbocharger's standpoint. I have a 4x4 vehicle so why drive a 2 year old open differential RWD luxury car in winter weather with nasty salty roads that kills paintjobs when I can drive the winter beater.

A turbo mounted near the manifold would certainly get much hotter - but wouldn't the rear mount get at least 500degrees - like the standard exhuast - right?

A question on your decision not to place on a BOV. I understand that in a straight line acceleration on an automatic you would have the unloading between shifts, but what about the constant on-and-off throttle? Some of my older turbos did not have a BOV, and you could hear the flutter when I was on the gas hard then quickly got off.

My (limited) understanding that having the pressure build up between the turbine and closed throttle plate will slow the turbo down (a little) and wear on the bearings a little more. Is that not correct?

A turbo mounted near the manifold would certainly get much hotter - but wouldn't the rear mount get at least 500degrees - like the standard exhuast - right?

A question on your decision not to place on a BOV. I understand that in a straight line acceleration on an automatic you would have the unloading between shifts, but what about the constant on-and-off throttle? Some of my older turbos did not have a BOV, and you could hear the flutter when I was on the gas hard then quickly got off.

My (limited) understanding that having the pressure build up between the turbine and closed throttle plate will slow the turbo down (a little) and wear on the bearings a little more. Is that not correct?



A remote mounted turbo might get to 500 degree's if it were on a hot day and just got done hotrodding the car around. All I can say is that I would go have my fun with the car and come home to park it. By the time I got out of the car and walked back to feel the turbine housing it was hot to the touch, but didn't burn my hand immediately like a front mount would have. Remote runs much cooler. By the numerous times I have put my hand into the exhaust stream to test for overly rich conditions with various vehicles I highly doubt the exhaust pipe near the back of the car is anywhere near 500 degree's except maybe on a hot day under constant and heavy acceleration.

Your understanding of the BOV is correct to an extent. A BOV is ran for a few reasons. One of which is like what you said. So that excess pressure is not built up in between the TB and compressor wheel of the turbo. In a manual vehicle when you get off the gas to shift the BOV opens and allows the excess boost to vent to atmosphere. That allows the compressor wheel (and of course turbine too) to freespool (coast) until the shift is complete and you are back on the gas. This allows the turbo to continue spinning at a higher enough speed so that when back in the gas you do not have to respool the thing all over again. A BOV becomes mandatory in a few situations. One is in a manual cars where you are on and off the gas all the time. Another is for a higher boost auto car. Low boost auto cars like mine do not really need a BOV because there is not too much boost pressure spiking in the charge pipe when the TB is closed. Less airmass packed into that space means there is more of a cushioning affect of the boost slowing the turbo down a bit rather than violently stopping the compressor wheel. Another point is that while driving in a auto car you usually do not go to fully closed throttle nearly as much as the manual car. A BOV in a auto car on low boost will not hurt, but it is not necessary by any means.

Jesus man did you actually read what I wrote in my last post? Nothing mechanical with the turbo or anything associated with it is preventing the LS from seeing snow or rain. Heck, I drove it in the rain when I was testing it one day with no hiccups. The filter may be in the rear of the car but its location is still fairly protected from the elements. What I was saying is that I CHOOSE not to drive it in the snow as it is just not the greatest winter vehicle. I even noted that my choice for not running it in the winter did not have anything to do with the turbo. If a person chose to do so, they could run their turbocharged LS in 2-3" of snow and likely be just fine; especially if a little guard plate were covering the bottom of the filter. I do not consider running any LS in that deep of snow to be smart, but it is easily doable from the turbocharger's standpoint. I have a 4x4 vehicle so why drive a 2 year old open differential RWD luxury car in winter weather with nasty salty roads that kills paintjobs when I can drive the winter beater.

I did read what you wrote. I just wanted to clarify that as not to assume everything that I am not sure about.
You see, I don't know if your definition of "little snow" is the same as mine. And saying "I am sure a little snow would not hurt it" does that mean that a lot of snow can hurt the turbo? Assuming "it" is the turbo or did you mean the LS? How am I supposed to know that you would rather drive a truck in winter?
Its hard to get a straight answer from both of you so that's why I am asking for every detail or "if" I can think of. (example: Quik posts his SC LS dyno numbers, but doesn't mention the amount of boost he was running, which is was higher than the assumed "safe" 5 PSI that can be used all the time and that went right passed me until someone mentioned that)
I don't see a point in keeping my LS away from rain or winter. I love the heated seats, heated wipers, auto wipers!

Don't drag me into this - I post numbers when I feel they are ready. I have posted more about my ups and downs than anyone - and taken a lot of crap over it. I certainly was not trying to mis-lead anyone - just happy with my runs.

The model of Lotus I own has a reputation of cracking it's manifold - as it gets hot and rain water hits them through the cooling vents and causes heat shock and eventually cracks.

I don't know how a turbo casing reacts to cool water - but there are alot of these rear mounted kits showing up. This is also something that Rocket will likely shake out in his trials.

ILLS -

Of all of the forums I've been in this has got to be one of the best and I've read quite a bit. You seem to be very knowledgable of the LS. Can you give a new dog some simple tricks on a Stock '04 LS V8 Sport. I remember the days with my '91 Mustang you could go to the local performance shop with a couple hund..to a thou, and get a pulley kit, change the mass air sensor, put in a K&N Air filter, some flowmasters, YOU GET THE POINT!!!

What can I do to my '04 LS in babysteps that will give me a little umphhh???

OH and by the way, the turbo work you did --- SWEET!!!!

I did read what you wrote. I just wanted to clarify that as not to assume everything that I am not sure about.
You see, I don't know if your definition of "little snow" is the same as mine. And saying "I am sure a little snow would not hurt it" does that mean that a lot of snow can hurt the turbo? Assuming "it" is the turbo or did you mean the LS? How am I supposed to know that you would rather drive a truck in winter?
Its hard to get a straight answer from both of you so that's why I am asking for every detail or "if" I can think of. (example: Quik posts his SC LS dyno numbers, but doesn't mention the amount of boost he was running, which is was higher than the assumed "safe" 5 PSI that can be used all the time and that went right passed me until someone mentioned that)
I don't see a point in keeping my LS away from rain or winter. I love the heated seats, heated wipers, auto wipers!


It is not my intention to get into any pissing contests in here but it is frustrating when you make statements that completely contradict what I just said. You posted "So, basically, turbo LS can't see rain/snow or any bad weather. It can only be driven on "dry" days or something MECHANICALLY will break." Those were statements, not questions. The funny thing is that your "questions" flip-flopped from your previous post. I understand that you want to ensure you have all information crystal clear here but you do nothing if you jump to conclusions. Just ask the question, don't assume an answer. That just gets confusing for everyone. The reason why you would know that I prefer to drive a truck in the winter is because I alluded to that in the previous post. I am answering your questions inn the best manner as possible. I gave you as straight of answers as I know how. Ask more concise questions....real questions... and you will have your "straight" answer. I am not out to play the coy game with anyone here. Once again from the cheap seats.....The TurboLS will take snowy roads (up to probably about 3") just fine from a turbo perspective. The TurboLS will be just fine on rainy days while driving too. The TurboLS will not fare well in a tornado, hurricane or tsunami... I hope I answered all of your questions sufficiently but if you need my VIN number or DNA sample please PM me. ;)

I don't know how a turbo casing reacts to cool water - but there are alot of these rear mounted kits showing up. This is also something that Rocket will likely shake out in his trials.



Right click and "save as" the link below if you want to see a video of how well remote turbo's do in cool water.

http://oi.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/f/Video/tacoma4.wmv



Now it is obviously a truck so the turbo sits a little higher, but I can assure you that puppy is getting drenched in that video! :cool: This is Rick Squires Turbocharged 04 Tacoma in that video there. Rick is the owner of STS Turbo and the big pioneer in the whole remote turbocharging approach. If he is not concerned with it on his own truck, and I am not concerned with it then that probably says something. No worries with the water on the turbo itself. Just make sure your filter is placed so that it doesn't suck up a puddle of water and things will be ok.

ILLS -

Of all of the forums I've been in this has got to be one of the best and I've read quite a bit. You seem to be very knowledgable of the LS. Can you give a new dog some simple tricks on a Stock '04 LS V8 Sport. I remember the days with my '91 Mustang you could go to the local performance shop with a couple hund..to a thou, and get a pulley kit, change the mass air sensor, put in a K&N Air filter, some flowmasters, YOU GET THE POINT!!!

What can I do to my '04 LS in babysteps that will give me a little umphhh???

OH and by the way, the turbo work you did --- SWEET!!!!


PM sent.

Suspension seems solid, do many people go to Eibach springs, lower the vehicle, add a spoiler, etc..? I don't see too much of a benefit driving on Long Island and in NYC (always sitting in traffic), but every now and then you get a clean stretch of road to let the pony's out, or a windy road to play on and put the stock Michelins to their limit.

Suspension seems solid, do many people go to Eibach springs, lower the vehicle, add a spoiler, etc..? I don't see too much of a benefit driving on Long Island and in NYC (always sitting in traffic), but every now and then you get a clean stretch of road to let the pony's out, or a windy road to play on and put the stock Michelins to their limit.



Hey bud, the reason I sent you a PM is so that this thread would not get congested with off-topic questions. It would be best if you either asked your questions via PM or started another thread. I advise to do a little snooping around here too. You can come up with allot of great info with just a little creative use of the search button.

True - My bad.

Canceled post after I saw question was already answered.:blah: :headbang:

Don't drag me into this - I post numbers when I feel they are ready. I have posted more about my ups and downs than anyone - and taken a lot of crap over it. I certainly was not trying to mis-lead anyone - just happy with my runs.

The model of Lotus I own has a reputation of cracking it's manifold - as it gets hot and rain water hits them through the cooling vents and causes heat shock and eventually cracks.

I don't know how a turbo casing reacts to cool water - but there are alot of these rear mounted kits showing up. This is also something that Rocket will likely shake out in his trials.
Lou, you have received some crap on the supercharger you built. I give you HUGE kudos for what you have done. Your build is by far the best I have ever seen on an LS and I can't wait to see the numbers you produce on it.

Lou, you have received some crap on the supercharger you built. I give you HUGE kudos for what you have done. Your build is by far the best I have ever seen on an LS and I can't wait to see the numbers you produce on it.


Ken, if you take a look in the supercharger thread you will see that Quik posted some numbers in there on his roughly 9 psi pulls.

Is the stock ls exhaust able to handle the psi range that you're looking for? Just wondering if you had to put on a stainless/aftermarket exhaust to handle the extra pressure?

The boost in created on the intake side....

if you look at the installation pics - http://www.ststurbo.com/products - you can see how the systems are tied into the exhaust.

here is a mustang pic - >
http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/mustang/05-GTTurbo-View.jpg

looks like stock exhaust up to close to the turbo - then all custom.

as Rocket said a more freely flowing exhaust will help.

Is the stock ls exhaust able to handle the psi range that you're looking for? Just wondering if you had to put on a stainless/aftermarket exhaust to handle the extra pressure?




Jayce, I would not have designed this if I didn't know both the existing and new components could take it. There is not a significant additional amount of pressure generated in the exhaust. Obviously it is increased but nowhere near what it would take tot rupture a pipe or blow an exhaust manifold gasket. If a person really wanted to use a much more significant amount of their stock exhaust, like in the Mustang GT system pictured above, then there would be no problem at all with it. You might lose a little bit of power, but if you happen to be a person that does not have hours and hours of time to dedicate to fabbing something very custom then it is an alternative to a full custom exhaust for the turbo system. Coated mild steel actually holds heat better than stainless does. Stainless is somewhat attractive but I usually prefer to make turbo systems out of mild steel for its heat properties and have it jet hot coated to really make it look top notch and also keep even more heat in the exhaust system.

I did go custom exhaust from the catalytic converters all the way back due to preference and also wanting to retain a fully functional dual exhaust system in the LS. The exhaust I designed is much more free flowing than the exhaust pictures of the S-197 Mustang GT pictured above. That S-197 GT still produced some great power for the boost though.

You really do need to send something into Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords... Both you and quik actually... this kind of stuff needs to get some attention nationally with fellow speed enthusiasts

ILLS:
Thanks for clearing that up.

This is the time of year where I really wish I still lived in the southern states. I miss having virtually year round racing conditions.

AMEN BROTHA!!!!!!!!!! I miss Southern California every time I look out side!

What Turbine are you using if I may ask? (A/R, Housing, Dia)

What Turbine are you using if I may ask? (A/R, Housing, Dia)



Garrett T04E 60 trim turbo. The rest of the information I consider intellectual property. Sorry.

what about the mufflers and/or resonators?...

what about the mufflers and/or resonators?...



There are none. The turbo does a pretty good job of muffling the exhaust to a very tough but good sounding note. I could not be more pleased with the way the exhaust sounds in this car after doing the turbo on it.

Yep sounds really sweet in person. You would never guess its a LS if you didn't see it.

I am sad, I like numbers. You will post dyno slips after you spin the rollers no?

I am sad, I like numbers. You will post dyno slips after you spin the rollers no?

Yes I will. The timing for when I finished the turbo system was not conducive to posting numbers shortly afterwards. I finished the system, tuned it, and the bad weather started setting in right after. The Illinois winter is to blame for that. I am sure that coming from Iowa you probably understand what I am talking about. In the springtime I will dig the car back out of its winter hibernation spot in the garage and drop the boost controller on it to raise the boost to 6 psi. Once I have rechecked the tune for the new boost level and fiddled with anything I might need to fiddle with then I will drop it on the rollers to see what it makes. :cool: If weather, and the terrible salty roads, permitted the car would have already seen the rollers a long time ago.

For sure, I hate midwestern winters for that reason. You know they keep racing all winter in the south....

For sure, I hate midwestern winters for that reason. You know they keep racing all winter in the south....

There IS ice racing...

Yes I will. The timing for when I finished the turbo system was not conducive to posting numbers shortly afterwards. I finished the system, tuned it, and the bad weather started setting in right after. The Illinois winter is to blame for that. I am sure that coming from Iowa you probably understand what I am talking about. In the springtime I will dig the car back out of its winter hibernation spot in the garage and drop the boost controller on it to raise the boost to 6 psi. Once I have rechecked the tune for the new boost level and fiddled with anything I might need to fiddle with then I will drop it on the rollers to see what it makes. :cool: If weather, and the terrible salty roads, permitted the car would have already seen the rollers a long time ago.

From a purely theoretical, math-driven basis, the improvement should approach forty percent. Subtract a little bit for pumping and frictional losses and something over thirty five percent is easily to be expected. I'm waiting with bated breath !!!
KenS from Ben's Place

From a purely theoretical, math-driven basis, the improvement should approach forty percent. Subtract a little bit for pumping and frictional losses and something over thirty five percent is easily to be expected. I'm waiting with bated breath !!!
KenS from Ben's Place



There are many more variables to calculating the power gains in a forced induction piston driven engine. Using the simple pressure ratio formula you described does not take any of these into account and thus is usually very inaccurate. I tend to use personal experience with how much power is generated per pound of boost. In most turbo systems running lower IAT's you will gain anywhere between 17-24rwhp per pound of boost. Some have gained as much as 26rwhp per pound but most average right about 20rwhp per pound. Even that does not take a few things into account but it is usually a better average estimate than then pressure ratio method. We will see.

x

There are many more variables to calculating the power gains in a forced induction piston driven engine. Using the simple pressure ratio formula you described does not take any of these into account and thus is usually very inaccurate. I tend to use personal experience with how much power is generated per pound of boost. In most turbo systems running lower IAT's you will gain anywhere between 17-24rwhp per pound of boost. Some have gained as much as 26rwhp per pound but most average right about 20rwhp per pound. Even that does not take a few things into account but it is usually a better average estimate than then pressure ratio method. We will see.

Your 20 hp per pound times 6 pounds would equate to 120 additional HP. That would seem to actually work out to about 43 % of the 280 advertised on the Gen 2. I'd certainly be happy with 120 on top of 280 if I were content with six pounds of boost. In fact, I believe that's just about perfect for daily driving. Once again we look to be in excellent agreement! Our major difference is that I will be using my car not only on the street but in a national racing venue. I'll try to set the blown record without the turbos---using just CH3OH and N2O---and then add the turbos to see how much difference I can achieve. :)
KenS from Ben's Place

Your 20 hp per pound times 6 pounds would equate to 120 additional HP. That would seem to actually work out to about 43 % of the 280 advertised on the Gen 2. I'd certainly be happy with 120 on top of 280 if I were content with six pounds of boost. In fact, I believe that's just about perfect for daily driving. Once again we look to be in excellent agreement! Our major difference is that I will be using my car not only on the street but in a national racing venue. I'll try to set the blown record without the turbos---using just CH3OH and N2O---and then add the turbos to see how much difference I can achieve. :)
KenS from Ben's Place

Ken your figures are a little off. You have to compare rwhp to rwhp. Not fwhp to rwhp. 240rwhp is about what an average LS is at with CAI and tune. Some see more and some see less so we will average it to 240 for this purpose. So 120 / 240 = .5 That indicates a 50% increase in power which is an appreciable difference from 35%-40%. No worries.

Yep Ken I will be happy with 360-375rwhp out of the LS just on the turbo and maybe shooting for 400rwhp for track days on meth if I do that. That is as far as I plan to go unless I really come into some money to justify rebuilding the bottom end of the engine and the transmission. By the sounds of your plans it seems as if you plan to be king of the hill once it is all said and done. That's good with me, I have my other "king of the hill" vehicle which puts TurboLS to shame. While we are talking about personal vehicles, here within 3 years I feel a Corvette front mount custom TT build coming on.

Ken your figures are a little off. You have to compare rwhp to rwhp. Not fwhp to rwhp. 240rwhp is about what an average LS is at with CAI and tune. Some see more and some see less so we will average it to 240 for this purpose. So 120 / 240 = .5 That indicates a 50% increase in power which is an appreciable difference from 35%-40%. No worries.

Yep Ken I will be happy with 360-375rwhp out of the LS just on the turbo and maybe shooting for 400rwhp for track days on meth if I do that. That is as far as I plan to go unless I really come into some money to justify rebuilding the bottom end of the engine and the transmission. By the sounds of your plans it seems as if you plan to be king of the hill once it is all said and done. That's good with me, I have my other "king of the hill" vehicle which puts TurboLS to shame. While we are talking about personal vehicles, here within 3 years I feel a Corvette front mount custom TT build coming on.

I have learned much and continue to learn from your postings. You've done a fabulous job of your engineering. It's simply that our purposes are not quite the same. I DO intend to be 'KING OF THE HILL' but the hill I have in mind is the plethora of 'ricers' and others to be found on the streets in Metro Detroit. Here in the forum we're all 'family', but locally, on the street, many are simply little wannabes with a six inch exhaust outlet. However, others have done significant improvement. It's my intent, therefore, to demonstrate that 15+ PSI of boost and 3 digits HP of spray utilizing NH3OH all going into a 32 valve V-8 is more than they bargained for. Beyond that is my motivation regarding Land Speed Racing. I'll address that on my thread in the High Performance section, "Land Speed LS".

KenS from Ben's Place

What is Ben's Place?

hello to everyone . ILLS great work by the way i hope you round here. i was curious in some things about this turbo charge ls. first of all id like to ask you how much did you spent doing this? and what parts did you use to make it because we all know there is no turbo kit for this car and also las and more important question is it worth doing all this job? id say horsepower gain with about 8lbs i dont want to push my engine. appreciate your help

What is Ben's Place?

'Ben's Place' is the casual name for Invictus Engineering, a fabricating and engineering firm that does independent contract projects for Jack Roush and other professional racing operations. He has been my friend for many years and is very willing to help my various projects. In return, he can count on me for an extra pair of (semi-skilled) hands when necessary. I'm proud to be involved with his operations.

One thing that's drawn us together is that I write magazine articles regarding automotive performance projects (such as my land speed racing)---he writes books relating his activities. He says that they are all made-up stuff, and then he says to use your own head to decide what to believe. He is a very violent man, living in the suburbs of the most violent Metro Area in the country. I know for a fact that he always carries a .45 !

You can read about NASCAR racing, Outlaw high-dollar street racing, and he says that his next book will have some stuff about racing my LS and the car we're building to supercede it. Each book also tells about other activities.

You can google 'Benjamin Garrick' to look for his three books:
1. Detroit: Spring Gold
2. Detroit: Summer Blue
3. Detroit: Autumn Red

Searching for 'Invictus Trust' or 'Invictus Engineering' is likely to lead you to his website. I can arrange for signed copies of any of his books. PM me. For more information about Land Speed Racing an LS, see my thread 'Land Speed LS' in the High Performance section of the forum.
KenS from Ben's Place

hello to everyone . ILLS great work by the way i hope you round here. i was curious in some things about this turbo charge ls. first of all id like to ask you how much did you spent doing this? and what parts did you use to make it because we all know there is no turbo kit for this car and also las and more important question is it worth doing all this job? id say horsepower gain with about 8lbs i dont want to push my engine. appreciate your help



Thanks. Sorry, I do not release detailed parts breakdowns of the system except to customers. You can get an idea of some of the parts I used from my signature line though.

It is definitely worth it if you want a fairly fast LS.

I expect around 360rwhp from about 6 or 7 psi boost. I believe running 8 psi to just not be safe enough to run in a daily driven LS.

Thanks. Sorry, I do not release detailed parts breakdowns of the system except to customers. You can get an idea of some of the parts I used from my signature line though.

It is definitely worth it if you want a fairly fast LS.

I expect around 360rwhp from about 6 or 7 psi boost. I believe running 8 psi to just not be safe enough to run in a daily driven LS.

what do you mean by when you say only to customers? also how much would it cost me? i mean if you sell a turbo kit i will buy it from you somebody i can trsut

what do you mean by when you say only to customers? also how much would it cost me? i mean if you sell a turbo kit i will buy it from you somebody i can trsut

pretty sure he not just "selling a turbo kit" mach up, fabrication, tuning and intercooler could take weeks.. you'd most likely have to frieght the car to him.. i'm not speaking on his behalf, but i would imagine.. as for price, expect a large down payment, and a larger install fee.. but its worth every penny if you were to ask me :D

pretty sure he not just "selling a turbo kit" mach up, fabrication, tuning and intercooler could take weeks.. you'd most likely have to frieght the car to him.. i'm not speaking on his behalf, but i would imagine.. as for price, expect a large down payment, and a larger install fee.. but its worth every penny if you were to ask me :D



If anyone is curious about this system they can always email me. I am not a vendor here so I do not really feel right talking about pricing or other specifics in the forum.

pretty sure he not just "selling a turbo kit" mach up, fabrication, tuning and intercooler could take weeks.. you'd most likely have to frieght the car to him.. i'm not speaking on his behalf, but i would imagine.. as for price, expect a large down payment, and a larger install fee.. but its worth every penny if you were to ask me :D

lol i guess then i will turbo my sis corolla :P

lol i guess then i will turbo my sis corolla :P



What a nice brother. ;)

What a nice brother. ;)

lol thx for the compliment man. damn i wanted a turbo ls how bout u sell me yours or we can trade it :D :D :D

I dont want to speak for ILLS, but I have done some serious looking into doing a build myself. I have some things I want to do for my car to make it more of a street strip show car.... but the rear mount kit is gonna make your LS scream down the track faster than camaros and cobras. You may want to look into traction help, but thats easy enough a challange to tackle as well. I'm looking into similar HP numbers, but getting it quicker and putting more of it to the ground. All in all, none of my findings would be what they are with out ILLS' work. And I cant wait to have mine done. I would LOVE to get it ready and head out to IL for an LS shoot out, where the only way to lose, is to not be one of us! LOL

I dont want to speak for ILLS, but I have done some serious looking into doing a build myself. I have some things I want to do for my car to make it more of a street strip show car.... but the rear mount kit is gonna make your LS scream down the track faster than camaros and cobras. You may want to look into traction help, but thats easy enough a challange to tackle as well. I'm looking into similar HP numbers, but getting it quicker and putting more of it to the ground. All in all, none of my findings would be what they are with out ILLS' work. And I cant wait to have mine done. I would LOVE to get it ready and head out to IL for an LS shoot out, where the only way to lose, is to not be one of us! LOL



If I do a turbo for your LS and you end up making it quicker than mine I might need to cheat and bring my Explorer to the track to race you. ;)

If I do a turbo for your LS and you end up making it quicker than mine I might need to cheat and bring my Explorer to the track to race you. ;)

For what...towing the LS.:D :rolleyes: :eek: :)

For what...towing the LS.:D :rolleyes: :eek: :)



That would be funny. The "tow vehicle" having over twice as much horsepower than the "race vehicle". ;)

I dont want to speak for ILLS, but I have done some serious looking into doing a build myself. I have some things I want to do for my car to make it more of a street strip show car.... but the rear mount kit is gonna make your LS scream down the track faster than camaros and cobras. You may want to look into traction help, but thats easy enough a challange to tackle as well. I'm looking into similar HP numbers, but getting it quicker and putting more of it to the ground. All in all, none of my findings would be what they are with out ILLS' work. And I cant wait to have mine done. I would LOVE to get it ready and head out to IL for an LS shoot out, where the only way to lose, is to not be one of us! LOL

The LS already beats Camaros. At least mine does. Maybe not the new ones, but the old ones.

Hey ILLS, just wanted to say "nice work". I VERY interested in seeing how the numbers turnout. Nice write up. I will be reading and hoping for a break in the weather for you.:)

Hey ILLS, just wanted to say "nice work". I VERY interested in seeing how the numbers turnout. Nice write up.

Thank you.

I will be reading and hoping for a break in the weather for you.:)

Hehe. I think that's called spring. Gladly it will be coming here soon.

If I do a turbo for your LS and you end up making it quicker than mine I might need to cheat and bring my Explorer to the track to race you. ;)

ManI wouldnt care if you beat me.... It would be worth it to see the crowds face when two Licolns rip corvette times down the track! LOL

My tax return might end up heading your way... We need to talk. I'll call you later on this week

what did you use to tune it after

what did you use to tune it after



I am a Ford custom tuner. I used the SCT Advantage software with an Xcal2 to tune it.

i like the lastpicture of your lisence plate.. (land of lincoln) lol

can you build my engine?...o_O...$$$

can you build my engine?...o_O...$$$



Keep this thread somewhat on topic please. If you have any inquiries about items other than this turbo project then please PM me or post a thread in the open forum. Thank you.

Hehe. I think that's called spring. Gladly it will be coming here soon.

I think you forgot where we live. First day of Spring and 6 inchs of snow. Hopefully we are all clear now. Can't wait to see it in person.

I think you forgot where we live. First day of Spring and 6 inchs of snow. Hopefully we are all clear now. Can't wait to see it in person.


Don't remind me. You may have gotten 6 inches but where I live we got about 10-12".

Don't remind me. You may have gotten 6 inches but where I live we got about 10-12".

Dizam. I'm in Waukegan right on the WI border and we didn't even get that much...maybe around 8" tops.


Back to our regually scheduled topic :)

The LS already beats Camaros. At least mine does. Maybe not the new ones, but the old ones.


maybe the 73-92 camaros. and thats excluding the 350tpi Iroc -z's, GTA's, and Firehawk (not like ull race a 3rd gen firehawk anyways). 93-02 V8 lt1/ls1 camaros beat the ever loving crap out of the lincoln. i used to own a 94 z28 6 speed, trust me, the Ls is a slow boring car. but its nice :D

Ive had the rear mount turbo idea in the back of my head as well. T3/T04e 50 trim turbo, 40mm tial wastegate. ive been going over every detail and trying to figure it out and make it work. Im stuck in 2 places. Fuel delivery is the first. would i need to replace the fuel pump and injectors, or just the injectors? would mustang injectors work from a 4.6L?

The other question is tuning. to be honest i dont really want to get a SCT Xcal2. If i take this car to a dynoshop would they have everything to be able to tune it or does it require having the SCT xcal 2 to load the tunes into it? im not sure if they can just hook a laptop into the computer like with my previous car, from what ive read noone has figured that out yet. i want to go for a dyno shop for 2 reasons, 1 to get HP #'s since noone who has done this has put the car on a dyno yet it seems. and 2 to have somewhat of a professional who knows what hes looking at and has the car in hand be able to tune it. Xcal 2 might be nice, but lets be honest, the guy who writes the tunes isnt near the car.

maybe the 73-92 camaros. and thats excluding the 350tpi Iroc -z's, GTA's, and Firehawk (not like ull race a 3rd gen firehawk anyways). 93-02 V8 lt1/ls1 camaros beat the ever loving crap out of the lincoln. i used to own a 94 z28 6 speed, trust me, the Ls is a slow boring car. but its nice :D

Ive had the rear mount turbo idea in the back of my head as well. T3/T04e 50 trim turbo, 40mm tial wastegate. ive been going over every detail and trying to figure it out and make it work. Im stuck in 2 places. Fuel delivery is the first. would i need to replace the fuel pump and injectors, or just the injectors? would mustang injectors work from a 4.6L?

The other question is tuning. to be honest i dont really want to get a SCT Xcal2. If i take this car to a dynoshop would they have everything to be able to tune it or does it require having the SCT xcal 2 to load the tunes into it? im not sure if they can just hook a laptop into the computer like with my previous car, from what ive read noone has figured that out yet. i want to go for a dyno shop for 2 reasons, 1 to get HP #'s since noone who has done this has put the car on a dyno yet it seems. and 2 to have somewhat of a professional who knows what hes looking at and has the car in hand be able to tune it. Xcal 2 might be nice, but lets be honest, the guy who writes the tunes isnt near the car.



You must have the wrong idea about the Xcal units. I use them to tune people's car in person on the street or dyno quite often. You will not be able to have your car tuned without the Xcal2, X3, or Livewire flash tuning unit. These units are what allow whomever tunes your car to be able to load the tunes they made for your car onto your PCM. You will have to have an actual SCT tuner take care of tuning your car as that is the only solution offered for your car as of now.

The good thing about the SCT flash tuning devices is that you have the option of being tuned in person; which I recommend with any forced induction combo. You also have the option to be tuned remotely which is nice for the people who only have a minor amount of bolt-ons. Many other tuning approaches will only allow your tuner to make changes to your tune in person which can be a real pain for people who live in rural areas. Lets face it, how many people are really doing turbo and superchargers on their LS's? Heck, 99.9% of Lincoln LS's out there can be tuned remotely and will benefit greatly from it.

As I have said before, the reason why this car has not seen the dyno has to primarily do with the weather. Once I finished the turbo system last fall I did find a small window to start tuning it but then bad winter weather set in. Only recently has the weather finally started to get nice enough where I can pull the car out and fully tune it and get it on the road to do some testing. Once it is all wrapped up then numbers will follow. People here need to realize that there are factors affecting testing on these vehicles that cannot be helped. Weather is a very big one. If this car was built in Arizona or California then testing and full tuning would have taken place a while back. Just not the case here. I only mention this because it still seems like people are actually questioning why no numbers have been put up on this car. When I have full results so will the people in here.

You must have the wrong idea about the Xcal units. I use them to tune people's car in person on the street or dyno quite often. You will not be able to have your car tuned without the Xcal2, X3, or Livewire flash tuning unit. These units are what allow whomever tunes your car to be able to load the tunes they made for your car onto your PCM. You will have to have an actual SCT tuner take care of tuning your car as that is the only solution offered for your car as of now.

The good thing about the SCT flash tuning devices is that you have the option of being tuned in person; which I recommend with any forced induction combo. You also have the option to be tuned remotely which is nice for the people who only have a minor amount of bolt-ons. Many other tuning approaches will only allow your tuner to make changes to your tune in person which can be a real pain for people who live in rural areas. Lets face it, how many people are really doing turbo and superchargers on their LS's? Heck, 99.9% of Lincoln LS's out there can be tuned remotely and will benefit greatly from it.

As I have said before, the reason why this car has not seen the dyno has to primarily do with the weather. Once I finished the turbo system last fall I did find a small window to start tuning it but then bad winter weather set in. Only recently has the weather finally started to get nice enough where I can pull the car out and fully tune it and get it on the road to do some testing. Once it is all wrapped up then numbers will follow. People here need to realize that there are factors affecting testing on these vehicles that cannot be helped. Weather is a very big one. If this car was built in Arizona or California then testing and full tuning would have taken place a while back. Just not the case here. I only mention this because it still seems like people are actually questioning why no numbers have been put up on this car. When I have full results so will the people in here.

Thank you for clearing up the tuning question. like i said i didnt know if you HAD to have one or if a dynoshop would have something that would also be able to tune it. so bottom line is, SCT xcal2 is something crucial making tuning alot less of a stress. and i actually didnt know it could do what u said, i thought the guy from SCT was the only one who could put tunes into it.

I wasnt dogging on you for not getting your car dyno'd, i myself just dont know when you would get numbers. My plan is to get everything hooked up, piping, turbo, waste gate, oil feed and return lines. i plan on not running exhaust tips or anything, just gonna dump it right there under the car. then i would trailor the car to the dyno/tuning shop of my prefrence that i trust, let em spend a day or 2 on it and get it all figured out. I realize you probably dont have the time to be working on the car all the time due to weather and your work life. Someone with an Indoor dyno doesnt have these problems.

Thank you for clearing up the tuning question. like i said i didnt know if you HAD to have one or if a dynoshop would have something that would also be able to tune it. so bottom line is, SCT xcal2 is something crucial making tuning alot less of a stress. and i actually didnt know it could do what u said, i thought the guy from SCT was the only one who could put tunes into it.

I wasnt dogging on you for not getting your car dyno'd, i myself just dont know when you would get numbers. My plan is to get everything hooked up, piping, turbo, waste gate, oil feed and return lines. i plan on not running exhaust tips or anything, just gonna dump it right there under the car. then i would trailor the car to the dyno/tuning shop of my prefrence that i trust, let em spend a day or 2 on it and get it all figured out. I realize you probably dont have the time to be working on the car all the time due to weather and your work life. Someone with an Indoor dyno doesnt have these problems.


What do you mean by "guy from SCT"??? Do you mean