What would you do motor wise if you had 4-5 thousand to spend on your motor? Would you buy a new motor, turbo, or supercharge? Lets not turn this into a typical LVC knock down drag out fight about who is right or wrong.:mad: I just am curious and have the funds to do this.:D


Happy Holidays to all!!!

Doc

The problem is you need to start with a built motor to go wild with either turbo or supercharging. That alone will exceed the budget. :eek:

But if it were mine, I would put the money in a low psi turbo setup that the stock engine could reliably live with.

are we talking a totally stock car?

you put all the money into the engine and then you have to worry about other things failing down the line. I suppose it really depends on what you are looking for. Personally I say do the rear end, build the tranny, and then spray it. I did similar things in my other cars when I was younger. Put a more powerful engine in, screwed up the tranny (3 times :rolleyes: ), built the tranny, then had rear end problems and couldn't stilck the power to the pavement.

are we talking a totally stock car?

you put all the money into the engine and then you have to worry about other things failing down the line. I suppose it really depends on what you are looking for. Personally I say do the rear end, build the tranny, and then spray it. I did similar things in my other cars when I was younger. Put a more powerful engine in, screwed up the tranny (3 times :rolleyes: ), built the tranny, then had rear end problems and couldn't stilck the power to the pavement.


Do you mean rebuild the tranny and rear end or build up both? I like the gears the way they are as far as fianal drive ratio goes. I live in a place with wide open spaces.

I have learned that you should beef up the car befor you go with the power, do the suspension then the drivetrain. Then last but not least do the the engine, if you have already then go for the gusto!

So all things being done. Now just the motor needs to be done. 4-5K which direction would you go?

I would go for some gears in the rear end, If you like the gearing now then leve that alone. Get a good chip, J mod and shift kit for the trans, Maybe a 100 shot on the engine along with a new fuel pump and a good tune up. Then go from there.

You can have a healthy built supercharged engine, healthy beefed trans, and beefed rear, for 5 thou. If you can't accomplish it with 5 thou you either didn't do research or you were in a big hurry.

www.svtperformance.com

www.ebay.com

Go with an SCT chip.

Start with a mark viii block.

Sell your current working engine

Sell your current working trans

Block bore/hone 300
Block 300
Rotating assy 1200
Heads 800
Lower manifold 400
Eaton M112 3-400
Trans $700, contact me for contact info

Fuel pump, fuel rails, chip, hoses, accessories, etc is what will add up

You can accomplish it with 5 thou.

However I'd start with things such as the trans rear and fuel pump then start collecting parts instead of trying to do the whole job at once from scratch so it doesn't get overwhelming and expensive.

What would this give me in RWHP?

What would this give me in RWHP?

600 is safe to say if you add nitrous. Sounds like you need to do some research.. just watch the 03-04 cobra guys, all in all it's the same exact drivetrain, whatever they can do so can you. But in Wyoming your resources for assistance probably suck.

$5k is not gonna get you 600rwhp not matter how good your internet kung fu is.
I just did that this past year and I do get lots of deals here in the D.
You're forgetting a lot of vital parts especially when talking about using m112 eaton.
No sprayed eaton car has seen 600 yet either.

600 is safe to say if you add nitrous. Sounds like you need to do some research.. just watch the 03-04 cobra guys, all in all it's the same exact drivetrain, whatever they can do so can you. But in Wyoming your resources for assistance probably suck.

Yes they do suck:( So my plan is to buy a motor and have the things done to it that are needed. Who do I talk to about this? I will just have to deal with shipping. I like the body style and will stick with it. I am basically looking for a strong crate motor. How will this affect my budget?

What would you do motor wise if you had 4-5 thousand to spend on your motor? Would you buy a new motor, turbo, or supercharge?

You don't say what you want as an end result.

A fast street car that is loud?

A sleeper with decent performance?

All-out strip car?

Ya got to start there. What do you want.

Then you need to ask what 'kind' of performance you want.

Do you like to drag race from a stop?

Do you like to run from 60 to 100 time to time?

Do you want a dyno queen that sits in the garage?

Now after that analysis, you can start on your goals.

To do some performance upgrades on the cheap, you can do things like this.

Rear end. Leave it stock if you like to run the higher speeds only.

If you like to drag from a dig, you need to put some short of trac-loc in the rear end with at least 3:73's to 4:10's for better launches.

Soft tires with a AAA traction rating will be a must also. 255 series would help a bit more.

Moving towards the front.

Might as well put in a new fuel pump. Walbro or Focus seem to be the best bets for the Mark.

The stock driveshaft has its own problems with balance as is. If you stay with the stock gearing, leave it. New gears = new shaft unless you like to rattle your teeth which will get real old fast.

Transmission wise - cheapest route to go is the j-mod. Quickening the stock shift performance will add alot more longevity. That would be a must at the very least. A full-blown set of new clutches with a j-mod should set you up for whatever power gains you are looking for.

Motor - again depends on what your expectations are.

N/A route on your budget....
Daily driven street car? Pull your motor and have some new grinds put in. Higher compression pistons with rods and some new cams are almost a must if are trying to decent N/A power. You can pick up 25 horse with a Cobra intake over stock. You can pick up some decent power with some shorties and a decent 2-1/4 to 2-1/2 exhaust.

Power Adder route...

A dry-kit nitrous is the cheapest way to go if you are just looking for a burst of adrenaline now and again. Not much else to best except fuel pump, chip, injectors and the sauce.

If you are going to do a power adder, I'd just do a Vortech setup and leave the motor alone. Run it at 6-8 psi and enjoy until the motor gives it up. Then you can rebuild it.

Turbo...big money until someone makes a kit and can knock off 5 or more kits from a jig setup.

Twin-screw...pick up the Kenne Bell kit for the 4.6 4V. It is not intercooled and the 1.5L unit is only good for 400 rwhp tops but that should fit your budget if you don't touch the engine.

Got to run. All the time I have. Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

600HP for 5 grand on a modular engine?

Yeah... Ok.

No sprayed eaton car has seen 600 yet either.

Ok. Stay in The motor city, and buy a penis pump.

600HP for 5 grand on a modular engine?

Yeah... Ok.

Whatever makes you feel smarter about your choices.

I tell you guys what, why don't you write a book! No way can anything be accomplished that YOU haven't seen right! Lol.

"...Lets not turn this into a typical LVC knock down drag out fight about who is right or wrong."

Your reading skills obviously lag behind your fantasy dreams.

I am looking for a sleeper with decent performance that I can run 75- 140 from time to time. I do that now but would like to do it with more authority.

"...Lets not turn this into a typical LVC knock down drag out fight about who is right or wrong."

.... so why say this..

Your reading skills obviously lag behind your fantasy dreams.

Come on guys, you don't need to rip on me by opening your mouth when you simply don't know.

Here's a 03 cobra STOCK internal 18 lb KB 2.2 no-nitrous, on it's FIRST dyno run on the setup. The same exact car just ridded of the eaton which produced 612RWHP STD with nitrous.

Higher numbers are race fuel, lowers are pump gas.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/bigturkey/DSC00049.jpg

Are you going to contine tell me I can't make 600 RWHP with a BUILT and FORGED 4.6, via an EATON, and nitrous? A 4.6 can make 600 rwhp on nitrous alone. Get educated.

There's no argument about facts.

So what did that motor cost to be able to produce those numbers?

612? About a grand. It's a stock block cobra, on nitrous.

Are you going to contine tell me I can't make 600 RWHP with a BUILT and FORGED 4.6, via an EATON, and nitrous? A 4.6 can make 600 rwhp on nitrous alone. Get educated.

There's no argument about facts.

First off, we're not talking mustangs. :p

Second, I don't believe $4-$5K is going to buy my Mark VIII a built and forged 4.6 with an eaton blower and a nitrous setup.

Third, I am educated. :D

So much for not fighting huh? I will leave you to figure this out amongst yourselves. Thanks for the help. I really do mean that! :-) I was able to glean some useful info from your replies untill it as usual went south.

There are those who TALK about how much it takes, and then there are those of us who KNOW how much it takes.

We're not arguing the Mark 4.6 can't make 600+ HP. We're arguing you can't do it properly under 5 grand.

Forged rotating assembly: 2300 (give or take)
Block work: 300
Autorotor blower. 2.2, 2.8, whatever. 3000+
Fuel System to support your shiny new power adder: 1500

That right there is 7100 smackers. Let's not talk about miscellaneous hardware, like head studs, bolts, maybe a cobra oil pump, solid rubber motor mounts, , maybe supporting hardware like Torque converter, (cause we all know how good the stock converter is), tranny, driveshaft, half shafts, and lord knows what else.

Can you make a mark 4.6 put out 600HP under 5 grand? Yeah, I guess ultimately you could if you skimped on such silly things like forged internals, and headwork. Will it live long, and will the supporting components live long? doubtful.

Yes they do suck:( So my plan is to buy a motor and have the things done to it that are needed. Who do I talk to about this?

Doc, get in touch with me, and I'll get you my machinist's number in Rock Springs.

ok poniesviii lets see here we (they) have said that no EATON car has made 600 hp right? right! then you go and post how that stang put down 612 hp with a KB blower right? RIGHT! ok im not the sharpest tool in the shead when it comes to these things but even i know that a KB blower will out power the STOCK EATON right? RIGHT AGAIN! point proven that you know less than i do or atleast i can read!

no one here has said ANY thing about a KB powered car we all know they can put down some numbers but the KB blower is a bigger unit then the stock eaton is. it must be bigger and put down more power then the stock EATON does or it would not be a UPGRADE right? now corect me if im wrong but im pretty sure im not too wrong about this.

So it happens I have an eaton mark viii and I built it myself. It was cheap but it wasn't $5k.

Penis pump ? WTF ? Is that what you call superchargers down there in Houston ?

Time to change your sig to penisviii. You seem to know all about them pumps, I mean blowers.

ok poniesviii lets see here we (they) have said that no EATON car has made 600 hp right? right! then you go and post how that stang put down 612 hp with a KB blower right? RIGHT! ok im not the sharpest tool in the shead when it comes to these things but even i know that a KB blower will out power the STOCK EATON right? RIGHT AGAIN! point proven that you know less than i do or atleast i can read!

no one here has said ANY thing about a KB powered car we all know they can put down some numbers but the KB blower is a bigger unit then the stock eaton is. it must be bigger and put down more power then the stock EATON does or it would not be a UPGRADE right? now corect me if im wrong but im pretty sure im not too wrong about this.

I never said a KB car put down 612. The dyno sheet says the KB car put down more that that on it's first dyno run. Atleast you can read!

So it happens I have an eaton mark viii and I built it myself. It was cheap but it wasn't $5k.

Penis pump ? WTF ? Is that what you call superchargers down there in Houston ?

Time to change your sig to penisviii. You seem to know all about them pumps, I mean blowers.

You and your car are God huh. Real cool. Yeah you have an Eaton mark viii. I doubt I'd be happy with how it was done.

There are those who TALK about how much it takes, and then there are those of us who KNOW how much it takes.

We're not arguing the Mark 4.6 can't make 600+ HP. We're arguing you can't do it properly under 5 grand.

Forged rotating assembly: 2300 (give or take)
Block work: 300
Autorotor blower. 2.2, 2.8, whatever. 3000+
Fuel System to support your shiny new power adder: 1500

That right there is 7100 smackers. Let's not talk about miscellaneous hardware, like head studs, bolts, maybe a cobra oil pump, solid rubber motor mounts, , maybe supporting hardware like Torque converter, (cause we all know how good the stock converter is), tranny, driveshaft, half shafts, and lord knows what else.

Can you make a mark 4.6 put out 600HP under 5 grand? Yeah, I guess ultimately you could if you skimped on such silly things like forged internals, and headwork. Will it live long, and will the supporting components live long? doubtful.


You see down your tunnel, ok. I'm not trying to have anything against anyone. I post something, and all of a sudden I'm the dumbass. Resources are everywhere. Knowledge is everywhere. Especially in Houston. It doesn't mean nobody in the rest of the country can't succeed at a reliable unskimped 600 rwhp in a mark viii. Get off the farms and out to see what the rest of the world is doing. These are mod motors, 14 years old. Knowledge and resources are plentiful. I'm sorry you spent so much when you didn't have to. It seems you decide to fix up your car, and all of a sudden you know everything. I don't care what you know, but I will prove to spectators nobody has to follow your path. As far as your estimates for parts, you're on crack. I'm done, you guys have your fun!

:rolleyes:

and they are more like 16 years old, not 14. :p

:rolleyes:

and they are more like 16 years old, not 14. :p

Why don't you get your badass turbo car done, add up your reciepts, Go ahead and round down. ;) Calculators at walmart should do correct math.

Weigh it, round down. :p (a grain elevator has these)

Throw it on a dyno, round WAY up. :rolleyes: (if you can find one)

Take note of your odometer until the one year mark, round up. :shifty:

And we'll compare. :D lol.

WTF?

Are you REALLY this ignorant?

Why don't you get your badass turbo car done, add up your reciepts, Go ahead and round down. ;) Calculators at walmart should do correct math.

Weigh it, round down. :p (a grain elevator has these)

Throw it on a dyno, round WAY up. :rolleyes: (if you can find one)

Take note of your odometer until the one year mark, round up. :shifty:

And we'll compare. :D lol.



Dude, your gonna lose this argument.

You and your car are God huh. Real cool. Yeah you have an Eaton mark viii. I doubt I'd be happy with how it was done.

I have seen and driven that particular Eaton Mark VIII. I don't know how much it cost, but I doubt you can duplicate it for the suggested budget. The owner is not God, but he is a great guy and I'd be extremely happy to own his car even if it does not have 600 RWHP.

http://lobsterita.gdp.pl/files/g/2_3933_eye_on_design_34.jpg

Meanwhile, back in Houston... :shifty:

That is one nice lookin' engine!

I have seen and driven that particular Eaton Mark VIII. I don't know how much it cost, but I doubt you can duplicate it for the suggested budget. The owner is not God, but he is a great guy and I'd be extremely happy to own his car even if it does not have 600 RWHP.

http://lobsterita.gdp.pl/files/g/2_3933_eye_on_design_34.jpg

Meanwhile, back in Houston... :shifty:



I have driven the same car!!! :D


Ponies....... You are completely in the wrong on this matter. I don't care how you think you can get 600 Hp out of a modular engine for 5K. It will NOT be done right. You will have to skimp on things that will sacrifice overall strength.

Little tidbit of information.....

302 short block from VT engines....4,000
C heads Hogged, blower cams and oversized valves...1,500 at least.
Terminator timing cover, lower intake, intercooler, front accesories, and all other supporting hardware ....2000 prolly more once I'm done
KB 2.8L twinscrew...3300
Other Misc crap, I have budgeted another grand.


As you can see......


Close to 12K for the engine alone. Could I skimp on things to make it cheaper? YES I could, but I don't want to be ripping everything back apart once I go full throttle under 28 LBS of boost because I threw a connecting rod through the oil pan. I alos did not take into account aftermarket cams. I'm not sure if I'm going that route, or stay with stock hardware for now. I'll have to see when the time comes.

I'm not even gonna get started on the cost of the T56 swap over, the roll cage, or the brake upgrades.

Wanna keep going? There are alot of people what have this kinda money in thier cars, and would prolly be more than happy to share.

I probably have 10K invested into my car and I haven't touched the engine yet!

Sorry, just wanted to get into this thread again, actually surprised you guys are wasting your breathe over this discussion, just let people read and believe what they want, if they listen to someone and do something wrong, its their problem

Hi remember me me? I am the guy that started this thread. All I wanted to know was what to do with 4-5k in the motor only. Not if I could get 600 rwhp or any set amount. I did ask what my net might be but that was all. Some of us here just want advice. I look to you guy's and girls for information, tips, and camaraderie.
Peace to you all this holiday season!!!

Hi remember me me?

hey, yeah, I remember you! :p

don't mind the thread, just friendly bickering for the most part amongst the guys. Just a matter of reading as much as you can and making up your own mind on what you want to do

Hi remember me me? I am the guy that started this thread. All I wanted to know was what to do with 4-5k in the motor only.

Based on what you just said, I would go with a j-mod set to the 450 hp level which will give very firm shifts and then install a Vortech which will shine at the higher speeds you want to operate in.

Leave the rear end stock with the stock gears (3:07 or 3:27).

Maybe do some exhaust work for sound quality and a little freer flow.

I would upgrade to 42 lb injectors although you don't absolutely have to and put on the centrifugal blower. You will also need a chip with a tune or a full fledged dyno tune.

You will have a fast highway car that won't be so fast off the line but that doesn't seem to be your concern.

Keep the blower around 6, maybe 8 psi max and if your motor is in decent shape (wouldn't be a bad idea to do a compression check first), then run it till something gives.

If you are not up and downshifting, the tranny should be fine. You won't be breaking any halfshafts. You won't be doing 1 tire fire shows at 70 mph.

You'll probably wind up around 325 rwhp which will be like night and day from where you are now and this will neatly fit into your budget without too much pain. You can probalby pick up a 2nd gen intake for next to nothing or for more, a Cobra unit to make the install easier.

Not everybody wants or needs a race car on the edge. Sounds to me like you just want to be able to beat most cars on the road that you typically encounter.

I think my advice moves you to that goal. It is only my opinion so put that in your pipe as you smoke all of what's been said here and don't worry about the keyboard posturing:rolleyes: , it goes with the territory, here, and on most boards.

I think my advice moves you to that goal. It is only my opinion so put that in your pipe as you smoke all of what's been said here and don't worry about the keyboard posturing:rolleyes: , it goes with the territory, here, and on most boards.

don't listen to him, he has no idea what he's talking about!:facesjump

I think the injectors and rails should be fine, otherwise I agree. I'm hoping you're doing all the work cause that's what all this is based off of!

actually, another thing to think about is if you plan on doing any other upgrades in the future. I didn't think things through far enough and spent money on things I shouldn't have and will have to change later on.

Sorry for the rant earlier doc.


With that kind of money, I would.....


Rear gear/driveshaft upgrade ~ 1000
J-mod to 450 level prolly 200 in parts and materials
do some scouring around, and find some e-deals on cobra intake parts then get an s-trim vortech, and have yourself a ball.

You might go over a little, but in this mod game, I seem to go over budget everytime I do something.

Mike

You might go over a little, but in this mod game, I seem to go over budget everytime I do something.

Mike

nawww never:rolleyes:

Try this approach. J mod tranny, trac lok, new 4.10 or 4.30 Gears, new drive shaft, new Coba hubs all around, new calipers (painted multi piston), new rotors, new Wheels and tires (Cobra or other style). If there is still any money left get a Dyno tune. The car will definitely drive better, look better, and best of all stop better.

Try this approach. J mod tranny, trac lok, new 4.10 or 4.30 Gears, new drive shaft, new Coba hubs all around, new calipers (painted multi piston), new rotors, new Wheels and tires (Cobra or other style). If there is still any money left get a Dyno tune. The car will definitely drive better, look better, and best of all stop better.

And that's why you show off your blower! :p

Adleast it's attainable. :p LOL!!

It makes me laugh when people on this board defend a bad/wrong position until the death, simply because of their pride, and not because they have a real grasp of what is going on.


There is no way you can build a 600 rwhp modular for $5000. Period.

Moreover, it would be difficult to build a 600 rwhp anything for that amount of money unless it already came with most of the parts to do it. (e.g. '03/'04 Cobra)

Paul.

What would you do motor wise if you had 4-5 thousand to spend on your motor? Would you buy a new motor, turbo, or supercharge? Lets not turn this into a typical LVC knock down drag out fight about who is right or wrong.:mad: I just am curious and have the funds to do this.:D Happy Holidays to all!!! Doc

Unless some of you have failed remedial reading class, let's get back to the subject at hand. Read above. That is exactly what Doc asked. He has 4-5 thousand to spend on a motor. He wants to know if he should build up the motor by itself or add a power-adder. Pretty simple question if you ask me.

He didn't ask if he should do this with the tranny or do that with the rear end. You can put a blower on it and run it until things blow up and then deal with it if you like.

The guy just wants to remove his speed limiter and make some occasional high speed passes. (Hope he lives out in the desert and has the best tires money can buy).

He never said anything about a 600 rwhp car so let's get on subject. Either you have some advice on how he should spend his $5000 to get the most bang for the buck or you don't.

Sheesh!

If I were to spend that amount of coin, here's what I would do:


Since modular motors aren't known for making big power cheap naturally aspirated, it seems to me that forced induction is the way to go.

That being said - I'd do the following:

Verify motor is in good working order, perform tune-up
S-trim kit (or T-trim if you plan on getting crazy later)
Cobra intake
Full exhaust
Necessary fuel upgrades (42s cuz they're cheap, fuel pump)
MAF, chip, dyno tune
...and a nice set of drag radials. :)


It's really all the same, Mustang, Lincoln, Modular, Pushrod, whatever. What works, just works. You're eventually going to break everything later anyway. If you want to dump the initial chunk of change on the motor, well, that just means the rest will come later.

Paul.

If I were to spend that amount of coin, here's what I would do:


Since modular motors aren't known for making big power cheap naturally aspirated, it seems to me that forced induction is the way to go.

That being said - I'd do the following:

Verify motor is in good working order, perform tune-up
S-trim kit (or T-trim if you plan on getting crazy later)
Cobra intake
Full exhaust
Necessary fuel upgrades (42s cuz they're cheap, fuel pump)
MAF, chip, dyno tune
...and a nice set of drag radials. :)


It's really all the same, Mustang, Lincoln, Modular, Pushrod, whatever. What works, just works. You're eventually going to break everything later anyway. If you want to dump the initial chunk of change on the motor, well, that just means the rest will come later.

Paul.


Well said.

I'll apologize for getting off subject a bit, If people were to have read the whole thread, they'd realize how things got into KB and 600 rwhp talk.

Update on the stock cobra with a ported eaton and 100 shot on stock T-56, block, and rear: 646/710. Buying smart, it's easily attainable for 5 thou in a mark. I build my own engines, I don't pay retail, and wait for deals on everything.

If the guy wants to, he can have 600 rwhp for 5 thou, was my point. With an Eaton, and juice. Safely? Well, this cobra pushed it for over a year on all kinds of street races and didn't shell anything. Now he has a KB 2.2 on the same exact parts, all un-replaced. The guy asked ME what he COULD see in RW numbers in response to my post on what he COULD do for some EXTRA power for 5K. I've seen 646 for around 1,500 in a cobra. So, 3,500 won't get me the durability of a stock cobra? Right. I'm not paying someone for an engine, not paying someone to BUILD my engine, and I'm sure as hell not paying over 500 for a blower, let alone 1,500 in the fuel system! I wish I was the retailer you purchase from.

Alot of you guys will call KB, ford racing, or whoever for your things. You don't need to, and why...... for a mrk viii. Because they have credit card machines? Not feasable. I wouldn't post this information if it wasn't useful. You want some extra power for 5 thousand dollars? If you call all the retailers who have the 'right parts' and buy everything new, you won't get more than a set of heads and a transmission, which might get you 50 more horse. Are you going to do that like everyone else, or listen to me?.

Happy holidays.

Sweet. If only he had an '03 Cobra and not a Lincoln Mark VIII, your post would be relevant and useful.






















Except he doesn't.

I'd say it would be possible to get a motor that's at least comparable to a terminator cobra motor for 3500. The rest of the drivetrain will live for awhile :shifty:

I would go with monstermark's suggestions. I wish you luck!

I wonder why hardly anybody worth anything frequents these mark viii boards. :confused: Maybe it's cause a handfull of people make sure everything's already figured out. It's kinda disgusting. I'll be done with the whole pos board right now.