I just got to thinking...


I've read a couple of articles on s/c mark 8's.. and I know theyre a bitch to fit on the motor..

But, what about STS remote turbos?

I've searched around on the forums and I can't find anything on them..

If I got ahold of a decent exhaust shop and got them to custom fab the piping, couldn't I use a universal mount STS remote system under the car somewhere? I mean.. anything can be done with enough money, but I'm trying to compare this idea to the pain-in-the-ass install of a supercharger..

And I'd rather people couldn't see it in my engine bay. :D


So whaddiya you guys think???

Reasonable idea??

I saw an install of an STS system on a C6 Corvette on Horsepower TV a few weeks back and to be honest it didn't look like that bad of a job. As far as a universal kit on a Mark, I don't know. I'm sure it could be done.

The STS "universal" kit is overpriced... you'd be better off making everything from scratch really.

I remember a bunch of people on LvC laughing at the very notion of an STS type setup early this year. My, how the ones who were laughing are now quiet... weird.

I've always felt they would be a good match to a stock engine. The biggest issue would be the piping - esp. the return air from the turbo(s) to the intake.

i still hate STS.


stupid design.

isn't there a problem with the turbo spooling up considering how far it is for the headers?

no, the housings are different sizes to make up for it. I believe there are a few LS1's in the 10s with the setup on stock internals.

its a system designed to add forced induction to an engine that already makes a good deal of power on it own. Its not a purpose build turbo motor but a "bolt-on" for stock to mildly build engines. The long piping means the spool is slower and the manifold pressure is even slower coming up than a turbo up front but the charge temperature is down due to the passive intercooling effect of that long length of tubing that is exposed to the cars slipstream. It works well at what it does, but I do not call it a well designed turbo system, just an clever low boost implementation of forced induction for motors that make enough power by themselfs looking for some top end reinforcement to the curves. It will work theoretically on any car that has enough underside room for 4 pipes, 2 turbos, extra oil lines with scavenge pumps, and mufflers. I think the unboosted DOHC motors are perfect canidates for this system since they have the airflow capacity but not the ability to get it into the motor, just don't go hog wild with the boost and the motor should hold together well. Watch your IAT timing retard curve well and have enough injector and it should work out well.

I was only planning on using one turbo.. and I didn't plan to get any higher than 8 or so lbs.

I'm just looking for a way to keep my sleeper image, ya know?

I wanna get into the low 14-high 13 range.. but I'd also like to do something that isn't overdone. That's part of the reason I bought my mark in the first place.

I'm gonna start talking to a shop down here in texas to see what they think of the idea. Alot of the ricekiller.com guys have used them and like 'em.. It won't be done anytime soon.. but i'm trying to plan out and save accordingly.

And I've seen firsthand what these things can do to an LS1/LS2.. it's insane.

I'm not expecting that kind of result with a mod4.6.. but I don't think I'll be disappointed at all.

Look here: http://www.turbothunderbird.com/pics.php

If it can be done on a t-bird with good results, I'm sure DOHC mark 8 will yield even better outcome.

Well heck if you're just looking for high 13s you can get there naturally aspirated pretty easily.. With 8 psi you're more towards the 12s range.

Well, who's gonna argue with 12's?


:D

this oil return line cracks me up

http://www.turbothunderbird.com/nats0416.jpg

i still hate STS.


stupid design.
I stongly agree! What a bunch of piping and other junk under your car to run a turbo that hangs off under your back bumper that anyone can easily take!

I'm sure that a single turbo set up could be installed under the hood, It just takes the right tools, knowhow and time. It can't be any more difficult than that insane t-bird set up! Why twins anyhow? all you need is a single. Look at the stang crowd or even the supras, those twins get tossed for a single most of the time.

That remote mount back bumper stuff is a poor design and way too much $$$$, just my oppinion.

I am looking forward to someone doing this Mod on a Mark Vlll so we can see another approach that can be used on our cars. Having a plumbers license will definitely help.

It's being done as we type this. Alex (frogman) has one helluva setup in mind. (think 750+HP.)

Yeah, I never was looking at twins.

Just singles.


Does he have any pics of his project up?

I vote:


PICS OR BAN! :D

:rolleyes:

No, I've got absolutely no pics. My digital camera is broken... err.. The battery is dead... errr.. I can't afford FILM right now.. yeah, that's it.

It's a good thing there's no cynicism on these forums...


Idk what I would do if there was...



:)

I just love how that TBird guy bolted the charge air pipe to the exhaust. That must do wonders for the intake temps.

It's being done as we type this. Alex (frogman) has one helluva setup in mind. (think 750+HP.)

I'd love to see it when it's done. This could open up a whole new world for the Mark VIII scene that is tired of the undersized centrifugal blowers.

I just love how that TBird guy bolted the charge air pipe to the exhaust. That must do wonders for the intake temps.

Tbid guy didn't bolt nothing. The system was adapted to the mn-12 directly by STS people at their shop.

Tbid guy didn't bolt nothing. The system was adapted to the mn-12 directly by STS people at their shop.


maybe you didnt look at the pics? the charge pipe is bolted to the exhaust at one point to keep it secure. personally i dont think it will transfer uch heat but the radiant heat from the exhaust pipe will.


i looked at the pics again. im sick to my stomach now.

So let me get this right, an old-fashion exhaust powered turbo mounted at the car's butt? Ok. I like the leaf-blower idea better.

I'd love to see it when it's done. This could open up a whole new world for the Mark VIII scene that is tired of the undersized centrifugal blowers.

Is the T-trim inadequate to get the job done?

Oh I looked at the pics. I am not saying it's right, but it's the STS that did the work. So I guess in their opinion it's fine.

It's being done as we type this. Alex (frogman) has one helluva setup in mind. (think 750+HP.)

RW numbers?

I'm shooting for 650RWHP. Any more than that, and I'd have to start replacing the half shafts (which are not stock at this time), and generally beefing up the rear end, as well as the front end. I'd still like to be able to drive this car on longer trips. and still have it keep some semblance of the Lincoln ride.

I'm shooting for 650RWHP. Any more than that, and I'd have to start replacing the half shafts (which are not stock at this time), and generally beefing up the rear end, as well as the front end. I'd still like to be able to drive this car on longer trips. and still have it keep some semblance of the Lincoln ride.

Without nitrous? .. curious on your mileage if NO. I'll be going with an SCT tune so I can have a nitrous/boost tune that I don't have to run on all the time. That way, running outside of boost will create a better 'trip' car. You should consider that.. if you haven't.

Do you REALLY think mileage is my main concern here? :p

That's the beauty of turbos. Boost controllers are pretty smart nowadays. On l trips, I can set the wastegates to open at just about any boost, thereby only boosting to whatever I want. Say, 3 psi if I really want mileage.

Without boost, I was getting around 14 instant miles per gallon last week when I took her for a quick spin. So yeah. This ain't gonna be a very fuel efficient car. If I wanted fuel efficiency I would be on the prius forums. :lol:

Do you REALLY think mileage is my main concern here? :p

That's the beauty of turbos. Boost controllers are pretty smart nowadays. On l trips, I can set the wastegates to open at just about any boost, thereby only boosting to whatever I want. Say, 3 psi if I really want mileage.

Without boost, I was getting around 14 instant miles per gallon last week when I took her for a quick spin. So yeah. This ain't gonna be a very fuel efficient car. If I wanted fuel efficiency I would be on the prius forums. :lol:


also depends on the spring. you can only boost as low as the wastegate allows. my stock actuators in my VR4 have a 6 psi spring. my new turbos have modified actuators with 14 psi springs.

Tbid guy didn't bolt nothing. The system was adapted to the mn-12 directly by STS people at their shop.

WHAT THE F@&K?

That job wasn't done by some dude in his garage, but by STS themselves? Holy crap I'll shoot them if they ever try to touch my car.

Is the T-trim inadequate to get the job done?

Depends on the "job". ;)

Depends on the "job". ;)

Que?

Judging by the compressor map on the T-trim, it can get a pretty big job done. Sure, it doesn't have the limitless potential of a couple T-4 frame turbos, but of course, it's also much simpler to install. I have one to pressurize my large pushrod motor, and I'm satisifed that it will do what I want it to do. It made 641 rwhp @ 18 psi on my friend's 331 ci motor with smaller heads/cam/intake than I'm running.

I can't believe that STS installed that and then allowed him to put pictures the internet with their name associated. That oil line is rediculous how much more hack can you get. At least some nice anodized an fittings and braided lines would look okay. That setup is straight from the iles of ACE Hardware. The tubing is also fitting and welded very poorly. I would be embarassed to put my name on that.

I agree with the oil line looking like crap. I had my machinist tap and weld a couple of 3/8's bungs in the oil pan before we put the motor into the car.

And ofcourse, we tapped them a bit too far forward. ugh.

I can't believe that STS installed that and then allowed him to put pictures the internet with their name associated. That oil line is rediculous how much more hack can you get. At least some nice anodized an fittings and braided lines would look okay. That setup is straight from the iles of ACE Hardware. The tubing is also fitting and welded very poorly. I would be embarassed to put my name on that.



every single STS kit ive seen has the oil return done like that.

Do you REALLY think mileage is my main concern here? :p

That's the beauty of turbos. Boost controllers are pretty smart nowadays. On l trips, I can set the wastegates to open at just about any boost, thereby only boosting to whatever I want. Say, 3 psi if I really want mileage.

Without boost, I was getting around 14 instant miles per gallon last week when I took her for a quick spin. So yeah. This ain't gonna be a very fuel efficient car. If I wanted fuel efficiency I would be on the prius forums. :lol:

Lol it must be nice for mileage not to be a concern! I'm hoping for 20 avg mpg on NA tune, with 550-600 rwhp on tap, on nitrous. I'll be running highway gears, however. In houston races are generally from a roll, not looking for a track/dig car. I'm anxious to see if I can meet those goals.

every single STS kit ive seen has the oil return done like that.

And they are still in buisness??? That kind of hack work belongs on things like my grandpas 1949 Farmall Trator. I just can't beleive that they took a picture specifically of that. It's like saying; "Were charging you thousands of dollars to turbo charge your car using only supplys that can be bought at the hardware store."

If I saw that on a car they were working on I would be walking out the door. I wouldn't trust them to change my oil.

Yeah.. I miss Houston..alot..

I grew up there.. It's where I learned to drive.. and to drive.


Where do you run over there? Richmond? Westheimer?

Those are the places in the downtown area that I used to hear of people dragging..

Que?

Judging by the compressor map on the T-trim, it can get a pretty big job done. Sure, it doesn't have the limitless potential of a couple T-4 frame turbos, but of course, it's also much simpler to install. I have one to pressurize my large pushrod motor, and I'm satisifed that it will do what I want it to do. It made 641 rwhp @ 18 psi on my friend's 331 ci motor with smaller heads/cam/intake than I'm running.

The simplicity and the potential of the V-Trim is certainly not laghable, and very useful and effective, but those looking for a fatter powerband and more power will find a couple of turbos a hell of a lot better.

One particular setup I saw recently was a pair of GT3037s on a Mustang that tossed out 1000HP at 16 psi. It was a complete street car, and made full boost by 3200 rpm.

And they are still in buisness??? That kind of hack work belongs on things like my grandpas 1949 Farmall Trator. I just can't beleive that they took a picture specifically of that. It's like saying; "Were charging you thousands of dollars to turbo charge your car using only supplys that can be bought at the hardware store."

If I saw that on a car they were working on I would be walking out the door. I wouldn't trust them to change my oil.

That's how they stay in business. $4000 for crappy components that are easy to install. God only knows how much to install a turbo system that is probably easier to do than an exhaust system. Actually, easier, since they aren't adding a muffler, or even touching the headers.

Then, your new STS owner goes out there are enjoys horsepower. Why? Because anyone buying an STS system does not care about how they make the power. They just want it. You think it matters to an STS owner that their kit looks like it was put together by children? Nope.

The simplicity and the potential of the V-Trim is certainly not laghable, and very useful and effective, but those looking for a fatter powerband and more power will find a couple of turbos a hell of a lot better.

One particular setup I saw recently was a pair of GT3037s on a Mustang that tossed out 1000HP at 16 psi. It was a complete street car, and made full boost by 3200 rpm.

There's no question that a pair of turbos would be my choice given no budgetary constraints. I'm just saying that it's not fair to say that "This could open up a whole new world for the Mark VIII scene that is tired of the undersized centrifugal blowers." There are very few blown marks, and even fewer making serious horsepower. I don't think there is a large contingent of Mark VIII owners saying "Dang I wish my stupid blower could make 1000 horsepower."

See what I mean?

Yeah.. I miss Houston..alot..

I grew up there.. It's where I learned to drive.. and to drive.


Where do you run over there? Richmond? Westheimer?

Those are the places in the downtown area that I used to hear of people dragging..


No.. Cops troll Westheimer heavily now unfortuneately. There's too many things on W, too much attention. .. I won't tell you what roads, but watch this maybe you can figure it out. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuYJaZrsiuk&eurl=

Definately the best city in the world for cars. People don't even know.. not even the people that live here.

No.. Cops troll Westheimer heavily now unfortuneately. There's too many things on W, too much attention. .. I won't tell you what roads, but watch this maybe you can figure it out. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuYJaZrsiuk&eurl=

Definately the best city in the world for cars. People don't even know.. not even the people that live here.


Now that was a PHAT video! it was sick!:cool:

Now that was a PHAT video! it was sick!:cool:

#2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olzJ5JVMNo

there was some news coverage on street racing in houston, so it's quieted down.. less seen vids are kept more discreet. These two vids have been on YouTube for quite awhile so, what the hell. These are OLD. Nothing New. Some of these cars are 700+ rwhp.

Nice OT....

I moved before I was into the scene!

Now I wish I still lived there!!

lol..

Though, I've met alot of D/FW guys and I hang out with them now..

And I've got a pretty good idea of where it's at. :)

There's no question that a pair of turbos would be my choice given no budgetary constraints. I'm just saying that it's not fair to say that "This could open up a whole new world for the Mark VIII scene that is tired of the undersized centrifugal blowers." There are very few blown marks, and even fewer making serious horsepower. I don't think there is a large contingent of Mark VIII owners saying "Dang I wish my stupid blower could make 1000 horsepower."

See what I mean?

My comment was specifically concerning those who were looking for major horsepower, with lower boost pressures. Never meant to imply that this was a worldwide issue for a major amount of people, and I don't think I did. So let's just leave it at that.

You guys need to stop hating on other options for the mark.

I for one like seeing someone do something different with the cars.. and who gives a :q:q:q:q about the oil return tap? Honestly? If you're making 400+ rwhp, the last thing a person looking at the car is going to notice is that. Bunch of picky SOB's.

Basically, blowers aren't the only solution to the mark's power problem.

Sure, something may cost a little more or a little less.. but the end result is still something that Lincoln never could have dreamed of. Whether it's n/a, s/c, or turbo'ed, it's still a mark8. So love it.


Jesus.. the original purpose of the post was to inqure as to the ease of fitment on the mark VIII. I didn't ask if they were pretty, or tube-free..or tapped beautifully, for that matter.

And to the guys who had nothing but negatives to say, I have a question for you.

As much :q:q:q:q as you've talked about the system, have you used one?

I can't recall ever hearing about them having reliability issues.. I've never heard of the company's fab jobs falling apart.. or not functioning.. so while it may look like the microsoft 3dPipes screensaver, its still probably faster than your :q:q:q:q.

And if you could do such a better setup job of the turbos, then why dont you? Then post it on the forums, and we'll all tell you how right you were. Until then, it seems the STS built cars will be outrunning you.

I've driven a GTO with an STS kit on it.


It hauled ass.

You guys need to stop hating on other options for the mark.

I for one like seeing someone do something different with the cars.. and who gives a :q:q:q:q about the oil return tap? Honestly? If you're making 400+ rwhp, the last thing a person looking at the car is going to notice is that. Bunch of picky SOB's.

Basically, blowers aren't the only solution to the mark's power problem.

Sure, something may cost a little more or a little less.. but the end result is still something that Lincoln never could have dreamed of. Whether it's n/a, s/c, or turbo'ed, it's still a mark8. So love it.


Jesus.. the original purpose of the post was to inqure as to the ease of fitment on the mark VIII. I didn't ask if they were pretty, or tube-free..or tapped beautifully, for that matter.

And to the guys who had nothing but negatives to say, I have a question for you.

As much :q:q:q:q as you've talked about the system, have you used one?

I can't recall ever hearing about them having reliability issues.. I've never heard of the company's fab jobs falling apart.. or not functioning.. so while it may look like the microsoft 3dPipes screensaver, its still probably faster than your :q:q:q:q.

And if you could do such a better setup job of the turbos, then why dont you? Then post it on the forums, and we'll all tell you how right you were. Until then, it seems the STS built cars will be outrunning you.

Sorry, but I have a huge problem paying for a quality system and getting a crappy one in return. Evidently, you don't.

Please post the STS Mark VIII so that we can compare their Mark VIII to ours to see if theirs really outruns ours.

What's crappy about the system?


That's what I want to know.


If you're so against the idea of paying for it, what makes these systems so crappy?

The :q:q:q:qing oil return line?


What bad experience have you had, or even heard about with these things?

It's easy to call something "crappy" when you have no supporting evidence.

While it may work and be perfectly effective, it does look like a bit of a hack job. For my 2 cents, that kind of stuff is alright for a engineering prototype or developmental car but if you are going to be marketing this stuff.... I think some higher quaility stuff is called for. It may work but it its not something I'd be showing off.

While it may work and be perfectly effective, it does look like a bit of a hack job. For my 2 cents, that kind of stuff is alright for a engineering prototype or developmental car but if you are going to be marketing this stuff.... I think some higher quaility stuff is called for. It may work but it its not something I'd be showing off.
Yep, agree!

Uhhh. why was my last post deleted?

I never said anything bad about the design of the sts setup or its affectivness.

I'm just saying that the setup on that tbird looks absolutley hack. You can't tell me that it doesn't look like absolute crap.

Turbo systems aren't freaking dress-up kits.

If you wanna look pretty, buy valve-covers.

Turbos are for hauling ass.

You can't tell me that car isn't damned fast.


It's not pretty, but I'd rather have an ugly turbo than no turbo.

Hey, I got pretty valve covers! The guy who did them said they would add an extra 20HP per valve cover! :lol:

Turbo systems aren't freaking dress-up kits.

If you wanna look pretty, buy valve-covers.

Turbos are for hauling ass.

You can't tell me that car isn't damned fast.


It's not pretty, but I'd rather have an ugly turbo than no turbo.




If I was paying someone X ammount to put a rear mounted turbo on my car, and I crawled under there and found that.......Id find the first living thing around me, and kill it.


That's just friggin horrible

Why argue about something none of you are ever going to have.. .

You mean an actual STS kit, or rear mounted turbos?


If you are refering to an STS kit....your right, I will NEVER purchase a kit from them IF that is infact the type of work they do. Besides, I prefer the low end torque produced from a twin screw setup more than the high speed pull from a turbo system.

If your refering to a rear mounted setup in general.....Your wrong. There is someone working on one right now.


Mike

I would like to see a clean set-up done so that I could make my mind up on this whole rear turbo thing. It's a very unique aproch to adding power, It just seems like a lot of extra stuff! Why run the oil lines anyhow? Couldn't a sealed ball bearing turbo be used? It seems simpler to me.

I just can't see a company doing that kind of crappy worhmanship! Are you guys sure about who did the work? It looks like a back yard speacial!

Do you have any idea the heat that a turbo bearing section sees? Sealed ball bearings would be toast in very short order. I for one won't run a turbo on my Turbo6 without water cooling aswell but thats getting a bit overkill. I'd also likely design and build my own using a bit better stuff but the STS idea is good for cars a nice booste in performance for cars that have heads that flow but can't suck enough air NA and are not octane limited already.

There are plenty of folks running sealed ball bearing turbos. You are right about the heat though. My ford 2.3 liter turbo is both oil and water cooled and that puppy glows red at night after a race! I know of many people using the sealed ball bearing turbos on toyota supras without any problems though.
The turbo won't be all that hot way back at the rear of the car anyways!

Why argue about something none of you are ever going to have.. .

Are you just assuming nobody can afford such an item?

Are you just assuming nobody can afford such an item?



Thats kinda what I am wondering......

The fact of the matter is, they(STS) have it and are making money. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

I haven't seen so much negative posting since ??? :confused:

You don't HAVE to have them install it. I know 2 cars here in hicktown WV that have sweet STS installs. Some argue the effieciency... well, I say it doesn't matter. Fact is the stock Mark 8 would benefit greatly from 5 psi boost. If it's only 5 psi, that's still a LOT of boost when you didn't have any before. Now, if you've drove a 20 psi boosted rice rocket before, you're going to be disappointed with 5 psi from the STS on your 2 ton boat. :rolleyes:

I have no other problems with that setup, except that for something so poorly fabricated, they should charge at least half of the price.

If it were $2500.00 installed, I'd have no complaints at all for that kind of workmanship. I'd call it the best thing since sliced bread or air conditioning.

Why dont the turbos just have their own oil system? If they already are using an electric pump to move the oil why not just keep the oil in it's own system with a seperate cooler and an elctric fan? Has anyone ever done such a thing?

Why dont the turbos just have their own oil system? If they already are using an electric pump to move the oil why not just keep the oil in it's own system with a seperate cooler and an elctric fan? Has anyone ever done such a thing?


good idea!

I've heard of that being done, and it's what I'd do if I were doing an STS type setup.

Are you just assuming nobody can afford such an item?

Lol, No guys. My point was being, the people controversing about the STS install quality likely won't even have an STS kit so who cares about the STS kit.

for one, anyone that's going to go w a rear turbo kit should be smart enough not to go through STS if it looks like dogmeat, if it looks like Crap it probably is.

And, the people that think it's ok probably don't even realize what a turbo is.

Neither are buying STS, the way it was presented.. or at least allowing them to install it.. so why argue about how good it currently looks, when STS installs it?. Talk worthwhile eh, my time isn't gold but I like to learn too.. something other than, .. it looks ok. No it don't. Yes it does. You're on crack. What are you talking about I'm on crack.. YOU're on crack. Blah.

With a paid off and maintained Mark VIII, and an average job, anybody can afford this setup.

Why dont the turbos just have their own oil system? If they already are using an electric pump to move the oil why not just keep the oil in it's own system with a seperate cooler and an elctric fan? Has anyone ever done such a thing?

I think the car would weigh more, which is trivial ok .. but, where are you going to mount your oil cooler, on top of your decklid? You need lines running to the front, or a HIGH CFM fan .. which .. is bulky. Where you gonna put it?. Just a thought. And where are you going to pull cool air from if it's in the rear? It's a question of feasability, I say running lines up is making most sense to my brain until I'm further educated.

He's right.

It's hard enough to fit piping/lines everywhere for the turbo itself.

But installing a separate oil system? It's a cool idea, but i'm not sure of the feasibility. I could be wrong though. Just never seen it done before.

Why dont the turbos just have their own oil system? If they already are using an electric pump to move the oil why not just keep the oil in it's own system with a seperate cooler and an elctric fan? Has anyone ever done such a thing?


I did it with my old Thunderbird, and a few other cars. I ran aviation turbine oil. Spool was a lot better too.

Hm.

Was it cost-effective, or a pain in the ass to setup? I mean, it's a great idea and all, but how much trouble is it to go through?

[says the guy who wants a rear-mounted turbo'ed mark8] :D

talk about a hypocrite! lol..

I did it with my old Thunderbird, and a few other cars. I ran aviation turbine oil. Spool was a lot better too.

Did you run into any problems with cooling? I would think it would be easier to keep the oil cool without it already being heated by the engine. You already have hot oil in the engine and the turbo is just heating it more. What was the aproximate oil capacity of the system?

I believe turbocharged Cesnas use a seperate oil system for the turbo. Next time I'm at my uncles hangar I'll have to check it out.

Just had an oil cooler out front with a fan, activated by thermostat. Turbine oil didn't need to be cooled all that much though. It is terribly resistant to heat, unlike motor oil, but also expensive. But obviously it didn't need to be changed nearly as much, and I didn't have to buy as much.

I checked out STS's website. That would definitely be a different set-up on a Mark. Killer sound track I bet. :cool: