How does the car dtermine when the oil change is due? Is it based on mileage or ....?

i was told it is based on mileage,mileage per trip,engine temp,various measurements,i drive my car 4 miles to work each day and only get about 3000-3500 between changes,my dad does almost all highway and get over or around 6k between messages,

i think if you regualry make short trips and dont get the car fully heated up and sustained heated up to remove moisture in the oil it really shorten your intervals,like mine does.

^^Exactly. I know that's how GM's oil life monitor works as well.

Ok I see. Now What are the various opinions on Synthetic vs Dino oil as it relates to the above? I have 1% oil life left according to the car but I wont be able to change it till next week at the earliest. I am running Castrol Syntec. My last oil change was about 3500 miles ago. I too have a 4-5 mile trip to work so I'm in your boat Moes. Personally I think itll be OK but I'm open to opinions.

Ok I see. Now What are the various opinions on Synthetic vs Dino oil as it relates to the above? I have 1% oil life left according to the car but I wont be able to change it till next week at the earliest. I am running Castrol Syntec. My last oil change was about 3500 miles ago. I too have a 4-5 mile trip to work so I'm in your boat Moes. Personally I think itll be OK but I'm open to opinions.



my opinion is this.....

with synthetic you have to disregard the oil message,and judge more by miles and how does the oil look,

if its black and nasty it doesnt matter what kind of oil it is because there are impurities in there that will not be nice to your engine..

since many folks say they go 7500 miles on synthetic,you could almost run through your 100 % and reset it another time,

but not if the oil is dirty

i am sure there will be some different opinions here,

in any case,you will be fine for a week or 2 till you change it.

what's the oil look like ? dirty?

my dad had a 1990 honda . I ended up driving it , it craped out on me and the oil lite came on. I looked at the dip stick thier were just dryed oil rocks on it.
I walk to the store and put 4 quarts in it. .... I called him up he never changed the oil in it. Over 100k , he later sold it to his brother it still running .

A little note;

If you go and buy a new chevy today, with the oil change indicator light, and only change it when the light comes on, you'll start out with intervals of 7-9K miles. After about 20K miles, it'll be more like 4-6K miles, and at about 50K miles you'll be seeing that light at intervals of less than 3K miles. I run a place that changes oil, and have frequently seen this come up. The best bet is to do whats right and change the oil every 3000miles. Its a cheap way to assure proper lubrication and long life.

I have to change the full synthetic oil on my Navigator every 2500 or so miles. By that time, its very black. This is mainly due to it being supercharged, intercooled, and nothing like the factory design. Hence the "severe" conditions recommendations.

One other thing I'll add. I wouldn't poor that crap that starts with "A" in my lawn mower, much less my Navigator. I love my engine, but I don't care to rebuild it. Anything that says it can go a year or some ungodly number like 25000 miles between changes is utter bullchit. Why do you think mobil 1 pulled the 15K mile oil they had out?

I change my oils as follows

00 grand am / regular oil / 5000 miles
97 grand prix /regular oil / 5000 miles (pushing around 300hp)
02 LS V6 / M1 w/ K&N filter / 5000 miles
99 grand prix / M1 w/ K&N filter / 3000 miles (pushing 425hp)


the grand am, 97 prix, and LS are not driven hard and that is the reason for the oil change intervals.

the 99 prix is supercharged/cam'd/Intercooled and raced and driven pretty hard.

Cool thanks for the input everyone. I thought I was safe but wanted to see what the people said. For the record mines a 98 with 61,000 miles on it and no mods.

I change my oil every 9500 miles, and my oil analysis always comes back spectacular. Then again, I use a bypass oil filtration system.

I just reset the thing until I reach 9000 usually. Obviously I don't have to change my oil much.

I use German Castrol.

It is a great idea to get an oil analysis done. I am too lazy to do so I guess. But it will give you a much better answer. I know several people that have been told to run up to 20k miles on M1 supersyn after doing several analysis and then knocked it down to 15k just to be safe. Then used that as rule of thumb for oil changes.

www.blackstone-labs.com

I grew up on the 3000 mile rule and have a tough time letting go of it. Even on the LS when i change every 5k with M1 supersyn, I start itching to change it once it hits 3k and I have to force myself to hold off.

OK, now I don't want anyone to take offense to this, know that first and foremost. That being said;

Think about your oil analysis ideas. What do you pay? $20, $30, $40? Even if its only $20 you're spending just about the price of an oil change to find out if some lab thinks you should change it just based on whats in it. Now, assume that you spring for it once to determine what your current contaminents are. Do you drive in the same conditions every day, using the exact same fuel and accel/decel patterns? Do you drive the same speeds everytime you get in the car? The simple answer is no. No one drives the same way everyday, conditions are never the same, and contaminants vary by the minute. Just because today you didn't have any `particle A` in your oil doesn't mean you won't tomorrow.

I have seen the results of these extended drain intervals. I have pictures of an Altima 4 cylinder that had 7500 mile intervals, just as recommended by the manufacturer under *normal* driving conditions. At 87000 miles, the car developed a head gasket leak. Upon removal of the valve cover, it looked as if someone had taken several dumps on the head. The sludge and crap buildup was so bad that the oiling holes in the heads were completely obstructed. I suprised the cams could even turn. If picture proof is required for some of you, I'll scan and show you it. I hate to see people go through those expenditures becuase they think they can skimp on the 3K mile oil change and save a couple bucks over the life of the car. If you drive 12K miles a year, thats 4 oil changes. About $100 a year for peace of mind. Even if you drive 24K miles a year, thats only $200 to know your engine is safe. Take it from a guy who profits from peoples stupidity by fixing these problems. Change it regularly, stay under 5000 miles, or face problems so expensive in the future you'll be under finacial strain. For example, if you drove 24K miles and did 6000 mile intervals, you'd save $100 a year on oil changes. In 10 years, you'd save $1000. If your head gasket blows, you'll spend more than 1grand getting it fixed. Pay me now, or pay me later:cool:

I use mobil 1 and go about 6K between changes. I change the filter at about 3K and go further than 6K with synthetic. as long as it stays clean.

I use mobil 1 and go about 6K between changes. I change the filter at about 3K and go further than 6K with synthetic. as long as it stays clean.

I don't get that. You use Mobil 1 (which is synthetic) and go 6K, but go further when you use synthetic? And remember this; synthetic doesn't show breakdown like dino does. there is no visible proof that synthetic is breaking down unless it turns black, which it shouldn't unless you're running a blown application. If you do get black synthetic, then you have old buildup in your pan thats causing it. The additives in synthetic break down and loose their lubricity (yes that is a word) factor, and simply doesn't do its job efficiantly when it wears out.

at blackstone, $20 each sample. It is not a bad idea to atleast get a feel for how long you can go between oil changes. It could save you a fortune in oil over time. If you do 3 samples over a period of time and it shows that you can go 20k between oil changes without a problem. you spent $60 (on kits) and saved yourself $105 in oil ($35 per change at 5k each). so right there you saved $45 by testing. now, after knowing that, to be safe knock it down to 15k between changes. That is a $70 savings per 15k in mileage. For many people that means 1 oil change per year in stead of 3 or 4.

my 97 gp has 130k on it
my 00 ga has 108k on it
my 99 gp has 90k on it
my 02 ls has 31k on it

I could have saved a decent amount of money on these cars.

Of course, when it comes down to it, it is still only about $70 per year .19 per day and less than $6 per month.. so, I guess its not that big of a deal.

I still do mine by 3000/5000:D ;)

How does the car dtermine when the oil change is due? Is it based on mileage or ....?


Ford has a Deal with JiffyLube. Anytime Jiffylube is having a slow week, thousands of Lincoln owners get the message via satellite..... Ford gets a cut of course.

at blackstone, $20 each sample. It is not a bad idea to atleast get a feel for how long you can go between oil changes. It could save you a fortune in oil over time. If you do 3 samples over a period of time and it shows that you can go 20k between oil changes without a problem. you spent $60 (on kits) and saved yourself $105 in oil ($35 per change at 5k each). so right there you saved $45 by testing. now, after knowing that, to be safe knock it down to 15k between changes. That is a $70 savings per 15k in mileage. For many people that means 1 oil change per year in stead of 3 or 4.

my 97 gp has 130k on it
my 00 ga has 108k on it
my 99 gp has 90k on it
my 02 ls has 31k on it

I could have saved a decent amount of money on these cars.

Of course, when it comes down to it, it is still only about $70 per year .19 per day and less than $6 per month.. so, I guess its not that big of a deal.

I still do mine by 3000/5000:D ;)

Ah, but you fail to account for changing conditions. If you test in January (just a random pick) and it says ok for xxxx miles, but in Feb the conditions have vastly changed and the condition of the oil has been severely altered, you won't know cause you're going by something that said you could go a certain length. I have had four ford Explorers. Each one has gone the distance, over 200K miles, and been in perfect running condition when sold. (one was under 200K) The first one (92) went 252000 when I sold it to buy my dads 95. Sold it at 222000 and bought my newly found wife a beamer. And so on and so forth, just had another pair of explorers. 1994 had 264000 miles, I was like the umtamillionth owner, drove it for a while and sold it in perfect condition. Had maintenence records for for 7 years, perfect track record at 3K miles intervals. The last one was a 94 and it had like 154000 milles and was in perfect condition. I didnt have any records, it was an auction buy.

Ford has a Deal with JiffyLube. Anytime Jiffylube is having a slow week, thousands of Lincoln owners get the message via satellite..... Ford gets a cut of course.


LOL For some reason I dont doubt that.

OK, now I don't want anyone to take offense to this, know that first and foremost. That being said;

Think about your oil analysis ideas. What do you pay? $20, $30, $40? Even if its only $20 you're spending just about the price of an oil change to find out if some lab thinks you should change it just based on whats in it.

Money is not the issue. I've seen cars with oil analysis after only 3k miles that looked like complete crap. Changing oil frequently is not the automatic answer to having good oil in your engine, it's just the safest answer for a person who simply does not care to examine their situation.

An oil analysis will tell you things like if you have excess bearing wear, too much silicon (sand, from an intake leak, etc), fuel, coolant, etc etc. I've seen each and every one in oil analysis from "good " cars.

It does FAR more than simply tell you when to change your oil.

Now, assume that you spring for it once to determine what your current contaminents are. Do you drive in the same conditions every day, using the exact same fuel and accel/decel patterns? Do you drive the same speeds everytime you get in the car? The simple answer is no. No one drives the same way everyday, conditions are never the same, and contaminants vary by the minute. Just because today you didn't have any `particle A` in your oil doesn't mean you won't tomorrow.

Contaminants rarely "disappear" from the oil system. If you have excess intrusion of contaminants, it will show up. Bearing material does not leave, coolant does not leave, silicon does not leave.

I have seen the results of these extended drain intervals. I have pictures of an Altima 4 cylinder that had 7500 mile intervals, just as recommended by the manufacturer under *normal* driving conditions. At 87000 miles, the car developed a head gasket leak. Upon removal of the valve cover, it looked as if someone had taken several dumps on the head. The sludge and crap buildup was so bad that the oiling holes in the heads were completely obstructed. I suprised the cams could even turn. If picture proof is required for some of you, I'll scan and show you it.


There's no excuse for crappy oil. You can't dump Penzoil dino oil in and expect to have extended OCIs. You need a top quality oil. Again, I have gone through "good" cars that received regular oil changes that had huge amounts of sludge. Go Quaker State!

I hate to see people go through those expenditures becuase they think they can skimp on the 3K mile oil change and save a couple bucks over the life of the car.

Money is not the issue. As a matter of fact, it was Ford who discovered that the additives in oil take about 1000 miles to really come into effect in the oil system. Guess what you're doing by having frequent oil changes? That's right, more wear as compared to a car with superior oil with extended OCIs. That's why high end cars like Porsche and BMW have OCIs of 7,000+ miles.

If you drive 12K miles a year, thats 4 oil changes. About $100 a year for peace of mind. Even if you drive 24K miles a year, thats only $200 to know your engine is safe. Take it from a guy who profits from peoples stupidity by fixing these problems. Change it regularly, stay under 5000 miles, or face problems so expensive in the future you'll be under finacial strain. For example, if you drove 24K miles and did 6000 mile intervals, you'd save $100 a year on oil changes. In 10 years, you'd save $1000. If your head gasket blows, you'll spend more than 1grand getting it fixed. Pay me now, or pay me later:cool:

If you use crappy oil, this is good advice. Otherwise, I do not agree.

I don't get that. You use Mobil 1 (which is synthetic) and go 6K, but go further when you use synthetic? And remember this; synthetic doesn't show breakdown like dino does. there is no visible proof that synthetic is breaking down unless it turns black, which it shouldn't unless you're running a blown application. If you do get black synthetic, then you have old buildup in your pan thats causing it. The additives in synthetic break down and loose their lubricity (yes that is a word) factor, and simply doesn't do its job efficiantly when it wears out.
what I meant is I go 6K on mobil 1 synthetic with a filter change at 3K.

ok,like i figured,there are as many different opinions as there are types and brands of oil

i recommend anyone who is interested to go here.

and like i and many have said,dirt is the key
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

I don't get that. You use Mobil 1 (which is synthetic) and go 6K, but go further when you use synthetic? And remember this; synthetic doesn't show breakdown like dino does. there is no visible proof that synthetic is breaking down unless it turns black, which it shouldn't unless you're running a blown application. If you do get black synthetic, then you have old buildup in your pan thats causing it. The additives in synthetic break down and loose their lubricity (yes that is a word) factor, and simply doesn't do its job efficiantly when it wears out.


sorry man,but oil doesnt break down,it becomes contaminated,


from mobil oil company<<<<<<<<<<<<,

""""According to the Mobil Oil Technical Bulletin #863, "Oil does not wear-out or break-down . It does become contaminated with water, acids, carbon and sludge so that it can no longer provide the protection needed for high precision engine components""""""""


so until it looks dirty or show bad "stuff" after an analysis,it is still in good shape.

sorry man,but oil doesnt break down,it becomes contaminated,


from mobil oil company<<<<<<<<<<<<,

""""According to the Mobil Oil Technical Bulletin #863, "Oil does not wear-out or break-down . It does become contaminated with water, acids, carbon and sludge so that it can no longer provide the protection needed for high precision engine components""""""""


so until it looks dirty or show bad "stuff" after an analysis,it is still in good shape.

Under intense heat and stress, oil does break down. It turns into a grease type product.

A little note;

If you go and buy a new chevy today, with the oil change indicator light, and only change it when the light comes on, you'll start out with intervals of 7-9K miles. After about 20K miles, it'll be more like 4-6K miles, and at about 50K miles you'll be seeing that light at intervals of less than 3K miles. I run a place that changes oil, and have frequently seen this come up. The best bet is to do whats right and change the oil every 3000miles. Its a cheap way to assure proper lubrication and long life.

I have to change the full synthetic oil on my Navigator every 2500 or so miles. By that time, its very black. This is mainly due to it being supercharged, intercooled, and nothing like the factory design. Hence the "severe" conditions recommendations.

One other thing I'll add. I wouldn't poor that crap that starts with "A" in my lawn mower, much less my Navigator. I love my engine, but I don't care to rebuild it. Anything that says it can go a year or some ungodly number like 25000 miles between changes is utter bullchit. Why do you think mobil 1 pulled the 15K mile oil they had out?


If by the stuff that starts with an "A" you mean AmsOil, then your data is seriously flawed. And being that you run a "Place that changes Oil" that is a statement that I would expect from you. Because people can't buy the oil that starts with an "A" from people like you, and you don't make any money from them. I use AmsOil in all of my vehicles, and I will put money on it that the oil that I take out of my vehicle is as good or better than what you put in yours. Don't get me wrong here, I like Mobile 1, and it is my second choice, but every Independant study that I have ever seen, ranks AmsOil as the very best oil that you can use in your vehicle under any conditions. And the only reason that Mobile 1 took their 15000 mile oil off of the market was that they were pressured into doing so by "Places that change Oil". I have seen first hand that analysis results of diesel trucks that have been running AmsOil for over 100,000 miles with nothing more than Filter changes. Now granted these filter setups were very elaborate, 4 - 6 filters setup on a filter bank, but none the less, over 100,000 miles and the analysis stated that they could probably go another 100,000 miles. So 200,000 miles and 4 filter changes. Cost benefit analysis proves that it is good oil. They did the same tests on Dino oils and they did last longer than the recommended change intervals, but not 100,000 plus miles. And yes they did use the same filter setup.

I personally believe that the only people that benefit from 3000 mile oil changes, are the people who run "Places that change Oil" and auto parts stores that sell oil and filters.

Grease is cheaper than steel!

I have 335,000 on my 65 T-Bird -original engine - sans waterpump, powersteering pump, hoses, carb and valve stem seals. Dino oil for the first 300K every 3000 miles then I switched to synthetic just cause it sits for long periods.

94 GMC Jimmy 4.3L CPI
I run Mobil 1 and change it every 20,000 miles give or take depending on how it looks. 212,000 miles and she still purrs like a kitten, albeit a retarded kitten with the occasional hiccup (stupid EGR valve) but a kitten non the less.

The LS...I keep an eye on the oil and usually reset the meter once and change at about 6,000+ miles. The stuff coming out looks just like the stuff going in.

Oh, I missed the part about him running a place that changes oil. Now that explains it all. LOL

I hope I didn't affend you with my comment about Pennzoil. ;)

If by the stuff that starts with an "A" you mean AmsOil, then your data is seriously flawed. And being that you run a "Place that changes Oil" that is a statement that I would expect from you. Because people can't buy the oil that starts with an "A" from people like you, and you don't make any money from them. I use AmsOil in all of my vehicles, and I will put money on it that the oil that I take out of my vehicle is as good or better than what you put in yours. Don't get me wrong here, I like Mobile 1, and it is my second choice, but every Independant study that I have ever seen, ranks AmsOil as the very best oil that you can use in your vehicle under any conditions. And the only reason that Mobile 1 took their 15000 mile oil off of the market was that they were pressured into doing so by "Places that change Oil". I have seen first hand that analysis results of diesel trucks that have been running AmsOil for over 100,000 miles with nothing more than Filter changes. Now granted these filter setups were very elaborate, 4 - 6 filters setup on a filter bank, but none the less, over 100,000 miles and the analysis stated that they could probably go another 100,000 miles. So 200,000 miles and 4 filter changes. Cost benefit analysis proves that it is good oil. They did the same tests on Dino oils and they did last longer than the recommended change intervals, but not 100,000 plus miles. And yes they did use the same filter setup.

I personally believe that the only people that benefit from 3000 mile oil changes, are the people who run "Places that change Oil" and auto parts stores that sell oil and filters.

I love these Amsoil supporters. Yes, I could sell it. The rep comes around a couple times a year and asks me to carry it. I tell him I don't sell snake oil. Since your wonderful product is so flawless, lets elaborate a bit on what it is good for.

First and foremost, several Amsoil products do not meet the required API standards that manufacturers use to deem warranty work for your new vehicles. If you run amsoil in your new vehicle, and its not API rated, then if you loose your motor you've just chitcanned your warranty from Ford, or whomever, and put it in the hands of Amsoil. Now, lets look at the restrictions that they place upon you in such case

5. In the event of a claim against AMSOIL INC., the procedure below must be completely followed.
a. Where the original warranty from the equipment manufacturer is still in effect, the customer shall file a warranty claim with the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) in accordance with the OEM warranty procedure.
b. Customer shall retain failed parts for inspection by AMSOIL INC. unless given to the OEM.

A. If you file with the dealer on an under warranty claim, and cannot prove oil changes much more frequently than what required by Amsoil, you get DENIED.
B. You have to fix the broken mess yourself, and they reimburse you. NICE


e. In cases where the OEM warranty is still in effect and that warranty coverage is denied based on the use of an AMSOIL lubricant, the customer shall immediately notify AMSOIL INC. and provide a written copy of the OEM warranty denial.
f. AMSOIL INC. may, at its option, notify its insurance carrier of the claim.
g. AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier may conduct an investigation that includes, but is not limited to, an inspection of the failed parts, a review of the operating conditions, and a thorough review of the information requested above. The customer agrees to cooperate with such investigation.
h. If AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier pays a claim, an attempt may be made to recover amounts paid from the OEM. If this occurs, the customer may be asked to provide further information pertaining to the failure and to cooperate with AMSOIL INC. or its insurer in the recovery process.


Recognize that it says amsoil may, AT ITS OPTION, investigate and decide whether or not to pay, all based on OEM denial reasons. Then, you're stuck if they do pay in a legal battle between Amsoil and the manufacturer for as long as they drag it on. Costing you time and money

AMSOIL lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation; negligence; abuse; damage from casualty, shipment or accident; or equipment modification done without written authorization from the OEM.

Gee, better not bolt anything onto that motor, then you'd have modified it.

AMSOIL lubricants that have been used for the purposes of racing or in applications where the OEM required lubricant standards do not match those stated by AMSOIL INC. without the written approval from AMSOIL INC.

Don't meet the API, your screwed

Failure of equipment when AMSOIL lubricants are not used in strict accordance with either the written recommendations of AMSOIL INC. or the OEM for warranty coverage.

OEM warranty coverage means changing at 5000 mile intervals for most

Failure of equipment due to a pre-existing condition that is unrelated to the use of AMSOIL

WOW, thats an open ended statement. What couldn't be pre-existing?

AMSOIL RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REJECT A WARRANTY CLAIM FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance, and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.

Wow, don't forget to save all your proof. Miss one and guess what, yur screwed!

Failure was the result of an OEM defect

Doesn't matter if it was an OEM defect if you use an unapproved oil for unapproved lengths. Yet again, yur screwed!

This warranty shall be governed, interpreted and construed by, and in accordance with, the laws of the State of Wisconsin

Might want to check the laws there. Big companies like to pick states with chitty consumer protection laws. WHich means, yur screwed!

So what have we learned? That they leave open ended reasons to not pay claims. They make you pay in advance of such and get reimbursment, then entangle you in court proceedings. They will shaft you until your anus is 12 inches wide.

Here is a link to a camry dying at 27000 miles with amsoil. ALthough they paid the claim, their product failed, and it was recognized that their product had failed multiple times in this particular scenario. But since then, Amsoil has issued out a TSB on this engine and other known sludgemonsters recommending the usage of an API certified oil in these applications and following the OEM recommended drain interval. Sludge monsters, aka amsoil failures
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.toyota/browse_thread/thread/7c3a0970736383ea/f42c1efd92cec757%23f42c1efd92cec757?sa=X&oi=groupsr&start=0&num=2

This is from an amsoil article, and stated by amsoil august 2005
“We receive about 20 miscellaneous vehicle
warranty claims per year,” reported Albert’s
son, Alan Amatuzio, executive vice president
and chief operating officer. “We investigate
each one comprehensively, examine
maintenance records, mileage, type of service
and repair invoices. We conduct
phone interviews and hire independent
expert investigators and engineers to
review failed parts and write an
Investigative Findings Report documenting
our results and send it to the claimant.
“Only in rare instances when we cannot
find an explanation for the problem, even
though the lubricant is not to blame, do
we accept a claim. Paid claims have
amounted to exactly two in the last two
years, which speaks volumes given the
quantity of oil we sell. It was later determined
that both paid claims were ultimately
the result of manufacturing errors
on behalf of a major automotive OEM.”

Yeah, all OEM faults. Thats GOTTA be true


And finally, here's a great article where amsoil wanted to pay out 1.5 million for damages. Amsoil sued its insurance company cuase they wouldn't cover 1.3 million of the 1.5 million that had to be paid
http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/02/10/021472U.pdf#search='amsoil%20paid%20claims'

German Castrol for me, or Mobil One.

Advertizing really does work wonders, with all the myths people believe about certain brands of oil and specifically synthetics...

BTW, oil doesn't wear out, but ZDP/ZDDP does.

That's the only reason why you can't run and filter oil forever, because the additives int he oil wear out. Otherwise, you could bypass filter the oil until half of time ended.

This one bypass filter company (who has a huge contract with Coca Cola and several other major companies) ran a truck for over 1 million miles on the same oil change, but the filter change required adding makeup oil to replace what was absorbed by the filter when the filter was removed. Probably the only reason why it worked for that long, because it kept getting fresh additives.