http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_47/b3960105.htm

The Administration has launched a broad assault on sexual content that targets the entertainment industry from Hollywood producers to hotels. The offensive includes creation of a Justice Dept. Obscenity Prosecution Task Force and an anti-porn squad at the FBI, a crackdown on indecent programming by the new Federal Communications Commission chairman, and a wave of indecency legislation.


Talk about wastes of money!!! Yeah small government ... right ... just small enough to be a fly on my wall and tell me it's not right that I beat off at 2 AM every second Thursday...

The legislation is targeted at Child pornography traffickers.

It has nothing to do with Raveneyes chronic masterbation problems.:tmi:

The legislation is targeted at Child pornography traffickers.

It has nothing to do with Raveneyes chronic masterbation problems.:N

The legislation targets all nude/sexual content...not just child pornography.

The legislation targets all nude/sexual content...not just child pornography.

TARGETS. Other stuff gets caught up in the broad net.
But it's not just about keeping you from looking a adult boobies at 2AM in the morning.

TARGETS. Other stuff gets caught up in the broad net.
But it's not just about keeping you from looking a adult boobies at 2AM in the morning.

It's not *just* about that, but that's what it leads to.

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times. You don't like what's on TV, change the channel. You don't want your kids to see porn, don't let them see porn. You don't like the sexually explicit content of a movie, DON'T WATCH IT!

Pornography and sexually explicit material are NOT illegal...they are not even 'immoral'. There are some types of image that are immoral, and also illegal, but that is not what the Bush administration and these task forces are targeting. They are targeting cable TV, movies, websites, and publications.

It is wrong and a waste of money. You want smaller, more spend-thrifty government? START IN YOUR BACK YARD!

Nixon pulled a similar move when he was running for his second term. He spoke out against pornography as it being the source of moral decay in America, launched a huge campaign. It worked, even though his numbers were down people (religious right) flocked to him as a savior and he won the election only to resign sometime later.

It's just a diversionary tactic. Don't worry Raven, the majority of people enjoy porn in some form, even those that will deny it. It's not going anywhere.

The thing is, I'm not so worried about porn. Porn will always find a way to produce and promote itself. I just don't want to be a country that would deny the freedom to enjoy porn.

Obviously porn isn't going anywhere. It's one of the biggest money producing industries in the world and we are the capitol of porn.

BUT if you've ever seen my portfolio http://www.raveneyes.com and clicked on the 'artistic' section, you'd understand why I am concerned. I don't want the Justice Dept. Obscenity Prosecution Task Force or the anti-porn squad at the FBI knocking down my door and demanding my cameras one day just because I have nudity on my web site!!! That is where this is leading! I'll freely admit that my imagery isn't always something that everyone wants to see, but if grandma maureen in kenocious wisconsin doesn't like it then F*ck her! I don't care! Don't look at it grandma maureen.

The thing is, I'm not so worried about porn. Porn will always find a way to produce and promote itself. I just don't want to be a country that would deny the freedom to enjoy porn.

Obviously porn isn't going anywhere. It's one of the biggest money producing industries in the world and we are the capitol of porn.

BUT if you've ever seen my portfolio http://www.raveneyes.com and clicked on the 'artistic' section, you'd understand why I am concerned. I don't want the Justice Dept. Obscenity Prosecution Task Force or the anti-porn squad at the FBI knocking down my door and demanding my cameras one day just because I have nudity on my web site!!! That is where this is leading! I'll freely admit that my imagery isn't always something that everyone wants to see, but if grandma maureen in kenocious wisconsin doesn't like it then F*ck her! I don't care! Don't look at it grandma maureen.

I would share your concern, but I just don't see this legislation resulting in anything that would resemble your fears.

I would like to add, very nice portfolio, Raveneyes. There's really outstanding work on display.

Check your website, the 'artistic' section didn't come up... BTW, the redhead and the Indian woman (looks Indian) are stunning. Great pictures overall.

I do see your point, thats how it starts. Take away one thing that is wrong and the vultures use it as a base to repress everything else.

Check your website, the 'artistic' section didn't come up... BTW, the redhead and the Indian woman (looks Indian) are stunning. Great pictures overall.

I do see your point, thats how it starts. Take away one thing that is wrong and the vultures use it as a base to repress everything else.

I'm sorry...it's the link labeled 'Creative' in the group below the photos.

I would share your concern, but I just don't see this legislation resulting in anything that would resemble your fears.

I would like to add, very nice portfolio, Raveneyes. There's really outstanding work on display.

Well, at least you understand where my concerns are based.

Perhaps it's the 'artist' in me, but I do see this legislation turning inward and encroaching like that. What do you think will happen when the FBI's porn task force has to justify it's budget for the year? It will start busting a bunch of sites. What's easier to bust, someone who has money to throw up a defense or someone like me who has none?

Thank you for the compliment on my portfolio. Will work for food :D

Only every second Thursday?

Seriously. I'm all for hanging child pornographers in public. I can think of nothing worse on this earth than one that preys on children. There is no hope for their redemption.

This brings up the same question as my pot question. Is the dealer more guilty that the user. In this case, is the maker more guilty that the viewer.

Only every second Thursday?

Seriously. I'm all for hanging child pornographers in public. I can think of nothing worse on this earth than one that preys on children. There is no hope for their redemption.

This brings up the same question as my pot question. Is the dealer more guilty that the user. In this case, is the maker more guilty that the viewer.

I fully agree with you on child molesters. Nothing worse in the world.

Someone that uses children as sexual objects is as guilty as someone that watches (condones) it.

Brings up another question related to a different thread. Would writing about pedophilia be illegal?

Should writing about pedophilia be illegal?

I'd have to say no. But it should result in a brutal a55-kicking by a private citizen.

It's not *just* about that, but that's what it leads to.

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times. You don't like what's on TV, change the channel. You don't want your kids to see porn, don't let them see porn. You don't like the sexually explicit content of a movie, DON'T WATCH IT!

Pornography and sexually explicit material are NOT illegal...they are not even 'immoral'. There are some types of image that are immoral, and also illegal, but that is not what the Bush administration and these task forces are targeting. They are targeting cable TV, movies, websites, and publications.

It is wrong and a waste of money. You want smaller, more spend-thrifty government? START IN YOUR BACK YARD!

Isn't it interesting that the left only sees a slippery slope when it's one of their favorite things? What about the slippery slope of gun laws, or the slippery slope of removing God from public places, or the slippery slope of preventing school prayer, or the slippery slope of changing the Pledge of Allegiance to an atheist's preference, or the slippery slope of the latest ruling saying parents can't prevent public schools from teaching their kids anything they want, or the slippery slope of increased spending, or the slippery slope of prosecuting people for not remembering what they said years ago, or the slippery slope of allowing judges to make new law?

Never hear from the left about that.

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times. You don't like what's on TV, change the channel. You don't want your kids to see porn, don't let them see porn. You don't like the sexually explicit content of a movie, DON'T WATCH IT!

Do you have kids? Do you know what a BS statement that is, "If you don't want to have your kids------------, don't let them"? No one can police their kids 100% of the time and when average TV becomes a showhouse for the gay lifestyle and preteen sluts does everyone just move off to the Klondike?

Pornography and sexually explicit material are NOT illegal...they are not even 'immoral'. There are some types of image that are immoral, and also illegal, but that is not what the Bush administration and these task forces are targeting. They are targeting cable TV, movies, websites, and publications.

This is true, but that does't mean all of it is desirable everywhere you turn 24/7 This is the type of thing that makes much of the third world, especially the Arab world, want to keep us at an arms length.


It is wrong and a waste of money. You want smaller, more spend-thrifty government? START IN YOUR BACK YARD!

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But liberals and those whose money, power, and influence eminate from big government want to cut your sack off so you must do as they dictate. Independent self reliant folks are a pox to them.

Isn't it interesting that the left only sees a slippery slope when it's one of their favorite things? What about the slippery slope of gun laws, or the slippery slope of removing God from public places, or the slippery slope of preventing school prayer, or the slippery slope of changing the Pledge of Allegiance to an atheist's preference, or the slippery slope of the latest ruling saying parents can't prevent public schools from teaching their kids anything they want, or the slippery slope of increased spending, or the slippery slope of prosecuting people for not remembering what they said years ago, or the slippery slope of allowing judges to make new law?

Never hear from the left about that.

Because it *is* a matter of your favorite things. I agree with a slippery slope in gun laws. I Don't believe in or see a problem with removing God from public space. I do see a slippery slope with preventing INDIVIDUAL school prayer (freedom of speech)...but see a very slippery slope with allowing group or school led school prayer in a bad direction. I see no problem with changing the Pledge of Allegiance to remove under God, there is no continuation from that in my opinion, nor is there a slippery slope to saying parents can choose what their kids learn in school (I remember having to get permission slips signed for sex ed).

The more idealistic the issue, the more likely someone on one side or the other will see it as a slippery slope, and I don't disagree with all of them, but sometimes we over react and sometimes it really is a slippery slope.

if ur a maale that doesnt enjoy looking at some good porn there something wrong with you just consider yourself a homo

Do you have kids? Do you know what a BS statement that is, "If you don't want to have your kids------------, don't let them"? No one can police their kids 100% of the time and when average TV becomes a showhouse for the gay lifestyle and preteen sluts does everyone just move off to the Klondike?
I remember being a kid and my parents didn't have cable because they thought I was too young to see some movies on HBO. Then eventually they got HBO because I got old enough. I didn't have internet access until I was old enough to see porn. It *is* possible to police your children 100% of the time, or at least for the most part. They *will* see things that you don't want them to see, but sometimes it's time for them to. It's your job as a parent to tech your children what those things mean/stand for and what you think is the proper way to deal with them.

This is true, but that does't mean all of it is desirable everywhere you turn 24/7 This is the type of thing that makes much of the third world, especially the Arab world, want to keep us at an arms length.
So you think the answer is to make our world like the Arab world? I don't. I enjoy having the freedom to say/do as I please with very few restraints.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But liberals and those whose money, power, and influence eminate from big government want to cut your sack off so you must do as they dictate. Independent self reliant folks are a pox to them.
Nooo my friend. Conservatives and the religious right want to cut my sack off so I do as they dictate...I've never heard one liberal even come close to the level of censorship that many conservatives wish to achieve.

Modeling ourselves after poor societies is not to be advcated, but we need to be aware of the way these societies prerceive us and why they see us in such forms as "the great Satan", it's not just because we support Isreal.

It is very difficult in todays world to monitor kids 24/7 when both parents are obligated to work, teachers persue their own agendas and are difficult to regulate, and parents are made villians for disciplining their children.

Conservatives and liberals both seek to cast you in their mold, beware those who kill and defame to promote an ideal, they are the true criminals of history.

Oh great...just what we F*cking need - Porn Police

What we NEED is people that are able to express themselves without expletives. Obviously you are not one of them.

What we NEED is people that are able to express themselves without expletives. Obviously you are not one of them.

That was meant as a combination anger and irony.

What more ironic thing than for someone to censor my way of speaking about assaults to freedom of speech.

I believe the irony was lost.

My wife and I were discussing my previous question about who is the more guilty party, the child pornographer or the viewer. In this case she agreed that the pornographer is by far the more guilty party as they are the maker.

She brought up a very interesting point, though. She said that she feels that a pornographer would be far less guilty if they created their filth by using high-tech animation. "No child was abused or even used in the making of this film".

The Japanese have been using animation in their pornography for years because their society has deemed it repulsive to see the actual sex act itself on film.

This more-guilty party question has some interesting twists. Who's more guilty; a hitman or the person that procures their services? A drug dealer or drug user? A prostitute or a john? A pimp or a prostitute?

Many have stated that both are illegal acts so they deserve the same punishment. I believe that each of those scenarios is different because of their affect on society.

Can anyone tell me why prostitution is illegal? Why is it that a woman can give it away, but she can't sell it. Seem illogical to me.

What about the slippery slope of gun laws,
Slippery Slope I don't want Rednecks running around toting guns killing people they don't like because they are drunk and disorderly. I fear for all those women whose Redneck Drunk husband comes home and pulling out the gun that they are toting and killing because they are a Redneck dumb ass who think that toting a gun will make them a big guy or increase their dick size. or the slippery slope of removing God from public places, or the slippery slope of preventing school prayer, or the slippery slope of changing the Pledge of Allegiance to an atheist's preference, or the slippery slope of the latest ruling saying parents can't prevent public schools from teaching their kids anything they want,
If you want what you want talk to your kid and disagree with public school then home school your kid or send them to the private school. There are more people and religions in our schools who said you're religion is the right one. Also the pledge says liberty and Justice for All not just conservative fundamentalist or the slippery slope of increased spending, or the slippery slope of prosecuting people for not remembering what they said years ago, or the slippery slope of allowing judges to make new law?

Never hear from the left about that.
Why are conservative afraid of the Constitution of the United States of America.

I believe the irony was lost.

My wife and I were discussing my previous question about who is the more guilty party, the child pornographer or the viewer. In this case she agreed that the pornographer is by far the more guilty party as they are the maker.

She brought up a very interesting point, though. She said that she feels that a pornographer would be far less guilty if they created their filth by using high-tech animation. "No child was abused or even used in the making of this film".

The Japanese have been using animation in their pornography for years because their society has deemed it repulsive to see the actual sex act itself on film.

This more-guilty party question has some interesting twists. Who's more guilty; a hitman or the person that procures their services? A drug dealer or drug user? A prostitute or a john? A pimp or a prostitute?

Many have stated that both are illegal acts so they deserve the same punishment. I believe that each of those scenarios is different because of their affect on society.

Can anyone tell me why prostitution is illegal? Why is it that a woman can give it away, but she can't sell it. Seem illogical to me.

Interesting discussion Barry.. Lost of food for thought.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_47/b3960105.htm


Talk about wastes of money!!! Yeah small government ... right ... just small enough to be a fly on my wall and tell me it's not right that I beat off at 2 AM every second Thursday...

Um RaVeneyes Pat Robertson left this message for you!:ban

Slippery Slope I don't want Rednecks running around toting guns killing people they don't like because they are drunk and disorderly. I fear for all those women whose Redneck Drunk husband comes home and pulling out the gun that they are toting and killing because they are a Redneck dumb ass who think that toting a gun will make them a big guy or increase their dick size.

But I can't own my rifles to go hunting or to the shooting range? I'm not going to kill someone unless they are breaking into my house and threatening my life or the life of someone I love. But that's not why I own my guns. I own them because I like to hunt. Do you now see that slippery slope? I understand raveneyes problem, although I disagree. You are just being difficult rich. How many drunk rednecks off their wives to have bigger penises? I haven't seen many cases of that in the news lately. Guns are a tool. It takes either improper handling or an intent to hurt to actually do harm to someone. But in both cases you could take those scenarios to many other things. I also happen to be a cook. Are you going to take my butcher knife away because it can be used to hack people to death? The gun issue is a slippery slope because it doesn't stop with guns. Next thing you know we will be using circles of paper and safety pencils(Simpson's quote!). I haven't read much about what Bush is doing in this case, but if he's just going afterchild pornographers, people need to shut the hell up. That's like getting pissed at him for cracking down on pot dealers because eventually he could come after cigarette vendors. One is illegal and one is not. There is no slippery slope there. It stops with the law. I do disagree with you raveneyes on the whole change the channel if you don't want to see it. But I don't think it's the place of the government to change. Sometimes I'm tired of seeing sticoms with 16 year old girls have sex problems. It makes me sick. If I had a daughter she wouldn't watch much besides Discovery Channel and the Science Channel. Unfortunately, I can't control what she does when I'm not there. I just wish the networks would get some good humor that doesn't always have to be about sex on TV. I don't mind seeing it, but sometimes it's like "Just make some new jokes". That's why I hated Will and Grace. It was funny the frst few episodes. But there is only so many times I can laugh at one gay guy calling another a queer. That's why shows like the Simpsons are so liked. It's not just the same old thing, well it used to be that way anyways.


If you want what you want talk to your kid and disagree with public school then home school your kid or send them to the private school. There are more people and religions in our schools who said you're religion is the right one.

My problem is that too many teachers take it upon themselves to teach their own values in school. I had that even in private school. And you can't police them all the time. Even if you start to watch teachers, then they'd go complain to the union anyways. It's hard to find a solution there.

So you think the answer is to make our world like the Arab world? I don't. I enjoy having the freedom to say/do as I please with very few restraints.


Nooo my friend. Conservatives and the religious right want to cut my sack off so I do as they dictate...I've never heard one liberal even come close to the level of censorship that many conservatives wish to achieve.

Helloooo. Restricting children from praying in school IS a liberal agenda, and it IS restricting freedom. Conservatives want this PERMITTED, not forced. Liberals want evolution forced and creation and prayer eliminated.

If you want what you want talk to your kid and disagree with public school then home school your kid or send them to the private school.

Okay, but then why is it that every time a bill with school vouchers comes up for vote the Lib Dems in Congress vote it down? Why should parents not get a tax deduction for choosing where to send their children to school?

It's your libwack friends in the Fed Gov that want ALL THE MONEY and ALL THE CONTROL but NONE OF THE FAIRNESS.

Um RaVeneyes Pat Robertson left this message for you!:ban

Mmmm...Kittens taste like chicken!

Helloooo. Restricting children from praying in school IS a liberal agenda, and it IS restricting freedom. Conservatives want this PERMITTED, not forced. Liberals want evolution forced and creation and prayer eliminated.

No no no no no! NO!

School led prayer is forcing children to conform to religious values...that is a restriction of freedom. I have no problem with allowing children to pray to whatever deity they please while in school, but having an announcement at the beginning of school leading a school prayer is not right.

-------------

Conservatives want Forced not Permitted. Conservatives want to force my children to learn about "intelligent design"...when I don't even believe in the God that is supposed to have lead that design! NO! You can teach all the intelligent design you want at home, otherwise teach children scientific method and logical deduction.

Can anyone tell me why prostitution is illegal? Why is it that a woman can give it away, but she can't sell it. Seem illogical to me.

Prostitution has been made illegal throughout history for several reasons:

One; It's believed to be degrading to women and society.

Two; Legal prostitution makes it harder to prevent women from being used as prostitues against their will.

Three; Prostitution usually goes hand in hand with other behaviors that are linked to declining societies.

Four; It accelerates the spread of many diseases.

Many things illegal today were legal in the past. If you question why they became illegal look at what has happened in the past.

This is true of politics as well. There is little new under the sun. Look at the words and actions of movers and shakers in the past and you will see the true Hitlers, Stalins, Pol Pots, and Lenins of today. Avoid the ignorance of labels and really see what these people said AND did, you will find many parallels in todays world.

Why do those supporting civil unrest, social disruption, and terrorist often seem to be well educated, wealthy, children of elites? Has anyone read 'A Chantle For Liebowitz'? Perhaps that is the way we should go, distaining education for the trouble it has brought with it. Do we really have a better society that some tribe in the backwaters of the Amazon?

Prayer in schools doesn't infringe on anyones "freedoms" other than the immature "freedom" to not have to listen to things you may disagree with. I don't believe anyone has been swayed to toss their beliefs aside because they heard a prayer in school, or anywhere else for that matter. If prayers offend you perhaps your not as liberal and tolerant as you wish others to believe. 'I have two mommies' in school is fine, but references to someone/thing you can turn to for support in times of personal troubles is not?

Prayer in schools, reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, and a single common language are but some of the things that help unify our society, stir the melting pot, so to speak. Diversity is distructive to societies, driving wedges between different relgious, ethnic, and behavioral groups. Look at India and the Balkans, these are fine examples of what diversity sows.

It is one thing to be tolerant of different peoples and another to "Balkanize" your society.

My problem is that too many teachers take it upon themselves to teach their own values in school. I had that even in private school. And you can't police them all the time. Even if you start to watch teachers, then they'd go complain to the union anyways. It's hard to find a solution there.

Too many parents don't teach anything! Too many parent are too concerned about their own free time and fun time kids are second thought..

You ever seen a child waiting after school to be picked up buy the parent who said I'll be there for you but when the time comes they are drunk down at the bar.

Have you seen the face of the children who can't get their parents to sign permission slips because they were too tired after being out all day and all night, and now th child can't attend programs.

Have you seen the bruises on the children after their parents have beaten the :q:q:q:q out of them.

Have you seen the children coming to school in dirty filthy close because their parents are too busy to do the laundry.

Have you seen the children who come to school with homework not finished because no one is at home to tell them to get their work finished.

Have you seen the children who come to school with no lunches or lunch money because their parents have drank the lunch money away.

Don't ever tell me what is happening in school unless you have your ass in that school for a year seeing what is actually happening.

Oh and to address your gun issue.. I never said you can't own guns... I'm against concealed weapons. I believe we have the rights to own and posses guns. I have problems with people driving around my community with concealed hand guns. In the bars at night with concealed hand guns.

I'm not read to go back to shoot outs on my main street.

Prayer in schools doesn't infringe on anyones "freedoms" other than the immature "freedom" to not have to listen to things you may disagree with. I don't believe anyone has been swayed to toss their beliefs aside because they heard a prayer in school, or anywhere else for that matter. If prayers offend you perhaps your not as liberal and tolerant as you wish others to believe. 'I have two mommies' in school is fine, but references to someone/thing you can turn to for support in times of personal troubles is not?

Let's be much more specific here. I am not offended by prayer in school I *AM* offended by school led prayer. There is a very large gulf between the two and it is the gulf between free speech and an oppressive church led environment.

Prayer in schools, reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, and a single common language are but some of the things that help unify our society, stir the melting pot, so to speak. Diversity is distructive to societies, driving wedges between different relgious, ethnic, and behavioral groups. Look at India and the Balkans, these are fine examples of what diversity sows.


This society does not have a single common language. We are one of the only nations on the planet to not have an official language and that is as it should be. The Pledge I'll agree is unifying, but school led prayer is not...it's divisive and disruptive.

As far as diversity...diversity has always ALWAYS proven to be a better situation than homogeny.

Too many parents don't teach anything! Too many parent are too concerned about their own free time and fun time kids are second thought..

You ever seen a child waiting after school to be picked up buy the parent who said I'll be there for you but when the time comes they are drunk down at the bar.

Have you seen the face of the children who can't get their parents to sign permission slips because they were too tired after being out all day and all night, and now th child can't attend programs.

Have you seen the bruises on the children after their parents have beaten the :q:q:q:q out of them.

Have you seen the children coming to school in dirty filthy close because their parents are too busy to do the laundry.

Have you seen the children who come to school with homework not finished because no one is at home to tell them to get their work finished.

Have you seen the children who come to school with no lunches or lunch money because their parents have drank the lunch money away.

Don't ever tell me what is happening in school unless you have your ass in that school for a year seeing what is actually happening.

yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Have you heard young black kids tell black teachers that the only reason the teacher is telling them to stop tearing up school property is because they are black?

Have you seen elementary school kids dropped off at school from cars blasting the most racist, vulgar, hate filled "music" you've ever heard?

Have you had your child come home complaining the teacher swears at the class?(I smuggled a tape recorder into the class and took the tape to the counselor. I was informed I shouldn't have done that! No mention of the teachers misconduct. The joys of tenure and teachers unions)

Have you had your child come home telling you how the teacher spent their time pushing political views?

Have you had your child come home with evidence the teacher is unable to control the classroom?

Have you heard students talking about who's selling what at school?

Have you seen the scams the school admin plays to show they have high attendace levels and high grade point averages?

Have you tried to get your school to obey laws protecting students?

Don't say you know what is going on in schools unless you sit in on classes and are active in parent organizations too.

And people worry that being led in a prayer is the heavy hand of an oppresive theocracy? Get off it and worry about a real issue.

No no no no no! NO!

School led prayer is forcing children to conform to religious values...that is a restriction of freedom. I have no problem with allowing children to pray to whatever deity they please while in school, but having an announcement at the beginning of school leading a school prayer is not right.

-------------

Conservatives want Forced not Permitted. Conservatives want to force my children to learn about "intelligent design"...when I don't even believe in the God that is supposed to have lead that design! NO! You can teach all the intelligent design you want at home, otherwise teach children scientific method and logical deduction.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.

First you misquote me and twist my words from 'prayer in school' to 'school led prayer' - a typical liberal tactic, but the usual standard by which you operate.

Secondly, we've already established, in a now deleted thread, that science is definitely NOT on the evolutionists' side here, and it's repression and dumbing down of YOUR children to force them to believe something that is consistently and more increasingly being disproven by old and new scientific findings! Furthermore, it is people like you who want to force children other than your own to have to believe that there is no God and that we all come from apes and slime that slithered in the muck billions of years ago! What an absolute crock!

First you misquote me and twist my words from 'prayer in school' to 'school led prayer' - a typical liberal tactic, but the usual standard by which you operate.

I didn't misquote anything...I was very specific and have made a very clear distinction between school led prayer and prayer in school the entire thread. If you feel misquoted then perhaps you should have been more specific in your argument


Secondly, we've already established, in a now deleted thread, that science is definitely NOT on the evolutionists' side here, and it's repression and dumbing down of YOUR children to force them to believe something that is consistently and more increasingly being disproven by old and new scientific findings! Furthermore, it is people like you who want to force children other than your own to have to believe that there is no God and that we all come from apes and slime that slithered in the muck billions of years ago! What an absolute crock!

Nothing about evolution theory says there is no God. Science and God are not mutually exclusive as that thread you're talking about has proven. The problem with teaching intelligent design in schools is that it forces the belief in a deity on children. I find that deification can be done at home when the children bring home what they've learned from school...the family's filter can then be placed on the information received. Until some other scientific (and by scientific I mean derived from observation and logic) theory comes to light to explain the origin of humans, then we will only be able to teach evolution. We still teach Newtonian physics in school even though it's not 100% accurate...this is because there is no better way to explain how science works and logical thought on scientific matters than to present a theory and show how it modifies over time...

Until God herself comes down here and forms a human being from dust, we can not use that as a theory of how the human species originated because we've never observed it, meanwhile we have observed the empirical evidence of evolution though there are blanks in the theory they aren't as large as the blanks in creationism or intelligent design.

Too many parents don't teach anything! Too many parent are too concerned about their own free time and fun time kids are second thought..

You ever seen a child waiting after school to be picked up buy the parent who said I'll be there for you but when the time comes they are drunk down at the bar.

Have you seen the face of the children who can't get their parents to sign permission slips because they were too tired after being out all day and all night, and now th child can't attend programs.

Have you seen the bruises on the children after their parents have beaten the :q:q:q:q out of them.

Have you seen the children coming to school in dirty filthy close because their parents are too busy to do the laundry.

Have you seen the children who come to school with homework not finished because no one is at home to tell them to get their work finished.

Have you seen the children who come to school with no lunches or lunch money because their parents have drank the lunch money away.

Don't ever tell me what is happening in school unless you have your ass in that school for a year seeing what is actually happening.

First, I get the feeling that you think I was confronting you on being a teacher that teaches your own ideologies. I don't think you are that kind of person Rich, so don't think that. But I still have a problem with teachers doing that same thing in the classroom. I am sure that you have seen some crazy :q:q:q:q in your time as a teacher, but I seriously doubt that even close to 50% of students are like that.

Oh and to address your gun issue.. I never said you can't own guns... I'm against concealed weapons. I believe we have the rights to own and posses guns. I have problems with people driving around my community with concealed hand guns. In the bars at night with concealed hand guns.

I'm not read to go back to shoot outs on my main street.

well good, I agree with you then. However, that is not the impression you gave me when you said that drunk rednecks are offing their wives in record numbers to increase the size of their pecker.

First, I get the feeling that you think I was confronting you on being a teacher that teaches your own ideologies. I don't think you are that kind of person Rich, so don't think that. But I still have a problem with teachers doing that same thing in the classroom. I am sure that you have seen some crazy :q:q:q:q in your time as a teacher, but I seriously doubt that even close to 50% of students are like that.

It's a sore subject with me. I've heard so many time it's those damn teachers. You have 1% in any field who are a bunch of crap. I don't like them either and I fight with them all the time. I am a passive member of our union because I don't want to be associated with the :q:q:q:q in our district. As my son once asked one. When are you going to retire you're old enough.

One problem we have in schools is politics. People who have never been in a classroom except when they were in school trying to lay down policies which will not work. Look good on paper and sound good but they don't know what they are dealing with.

It seems many people think that all 22 of the the students I have in my classroom are excited to be there everyday, and that everyday it's the same thing.

I have 22 variables everyday that I have to figure out what is up with them and what happened at home or on the way to school. And you have at least 3 to 5 students who are always on the edge.

You have 20 + students who have almost as many learning styles and personalities styles and you pack them in a room that looks like they are in a sardine tin.

The problems with our schools is not the schools the problem is in what we have to do to acquire the government aid needed to run the schools. Also think about this (lucky I don't have this problem but) how many of you have to have your work scanned for weapons? Think about many of the city schools where the students are passed through detectors and monitored for weapons. With educational environments like that ask yourself is education the foremost issue or is it survival.



well good, I agree with you then. However, that is not the impression you gave me when you said that drunk rednecks are offing their wives in record numbers to increase the size of their pecker.

Right now Wisconsin has the concealed weapons issue going through congress. I hate the idea and I fear for it. It puts too many weapons on the streets and too many people with attitudes with hidden weapons. It scares me.

Secondly, we've already established, in a now deleted thread, that science is definitely NOT on the evolutionists' side here, and it's repression and dumbing down of YOUR children to force them to believe something that is consistently and more increasingly being disproven by old and new scientific findings! Furthermore, it is people like you who want to force children other than your own to have to believe that there is no God and that we all come from apes and slime that slithered in the muck billions of years ago! What an absolute crock!


Huh? Science is now on the 'Creation' side? Science proves that two people populated the planet, which is now over 6 billion people? Science proves that dinosaur remains which science has dated to be hundreds of millions of years old while the oldest modern human remains found several hundred thousand somehow existed together? I think science is definitely not on the side of the 'Creation' myth. Also, science doesn't dictate that no God exist, it just dispels a few religious stories.

A magical garden where Adam/Eve lived in harmony with the lion, sheep and the tyrannosaurus. That sir is an absolute crock.

I didn't misquote anything...I was very specific and have made a very clear distinction between school led prayer and prayer in school the entire thread. If you feel misquoted then perhaps you should have been more specific in your argument




Nothing about evolution theory says there is no God. Science and God are not mutually exclusive as that thread you're talking about has proven. The problem with teaching intelligent design in schools is that it forces the belief in a deity on children. I find that deification can be done at home when the children bring home what they've learned from school...the family's filter can then be placed on the information received. Until some other scientific (and by scientific I mean derived from observation and logic) theory comes to light to explain the origin of humans, then we will only be able to teach evolution. We still teach Newtonian physics in school even though it's not 100% accurate...this is because there is no better way to explain how science works and logical thought on scientific matters than to present a theory and show how it modifies over time...

Until God herself comes down here and forms a human being from dust, we can not use that as a theory of how the human species originated because we've never observed it, meanwhile we have observed the empirical evidence of evolution though there are blanks in the theory they aren't as large as the blanks in creationism or intelligent design.

Wrong again, twice. You DID misquote me.

Wrong. Intelligent design, which you have just illustrated that you have not even bothered to research, does NOT assert the existence of God. It merely shows the presence of design in nature by using the very science that evolution ignores or tries to explain away. In doing so, it allows people (egads!) to make their own intelligent decision instead of force-feeding bullcrap 'empirical' make-believe evolutionary 'evidence.'

Perhaps you should try researching before you start asserting.

Wrong again, twice. You DID misquote me.
You are so full of SH!T. Why don't you copy and paste my misquote and show me where I misquoted you. Nothing I have quoted of yours is at all altered in any way...I never retype any of your words unlike you with mine.

Go fly a kite

Wrong. Intelligent design, which you have just illustrated that you have not even bothered to research, does NOT assert the existence of God. It merely shows the presence of design in nature by using the very science that evolution ignores or tries to explain away. In doing so, it allows people (egads!) to make their own intelligent decision instead of force-feeding bullcrap 'empirical' make-believe evolutionary 'evidence.'

Perhaps you should try researching before you start asserting.
Perhaps you should try knowing words before you put them in quotes. Evidence isn't made up. The only thing you could even say is in question is theories that are brought about because of the evidence, and that has always been the case. Interpreting the evidence is what science is all about.

Why can't we just make this rule?

No pornography may show any living thing that cannot by law sign a release be it real, drawn, or computer generated. So no kids...no animals. Then enforce the law.

FreeFaller, I'd vote for that law.

You are so full of SH!T. Why don't you copy and paste my misquote and show me where I misquoted you. Nothing I have quoted of yours is at all altered in any way...I never retype any of your words unlike you with mine.

Go fly a kite


Perhaps you should try knowing words before you put them in quotes. Evidence isn't made up. The only thing you could even say is in question is theories that are brought about because of the evidence, and that has always been the case. Interpreting the evidence is what science is all about.

Awwww, did I hurt your po wittle feewings with my superior arguments? There there, go home and suck your thumb and have a nice little cry and it'll be all over soon.

You got whipped in the last evolution debate. You sure you want some more?

"Superior arguements" Sounds like someone has a complex.

Fossten, I really do not want to jump in between you and Raven, but how can you accuse him of 'crying like a baby', when your last ditch tactic when you bury yourself is the usual "Blah Blah Blah liberal personal attack Blah Blah" line?

.................................................. .................................................. ....

I'd like some of the Evolution debate.... Go see my earlier post on this thread.

Yeah, what he said!

Awwww, did I hurt your po wittle feewings with my superior arguments? There there, go home and suck your thumb and have a nice little cry and it'll be all over soon.

You got whipped in the last evolution debate. You sure you want some more?


I sure hope this isn't a self-proclaimed victory on the evolution debate. The only one who thinks your arguments are suprior is yourself.

It's like the little kid on that Movie "Big Daddy" the only game he can play is I win... It's himself proclaiming that he won. Nothing else!

Even the Pope voted you off the Island!

Awwww, did I hurt your po wittle feewings with my superior arguments? There there, go home and suck your thumb and have a nice little cry and it'll be all over soon.

You got whipped in the last evolution debate. You sure you want some more?

What superior argument nimrod...no you didn't hurt my feelings you just hurt my faith in human intelligence.

You are a moron...still... I did not misquote you and so all you can say is "you misquoted me" over and over until it doesn't mean anything and I just get frustrated and lose my temper. If I misquoted you...ever...prove it!

What superior argument nimrod...no you didn't hurt my feelings you just hurt my faith in human intelligence.

You are a moron...still... I did not misquote you and so all you can say is "you misquoted me" over and over until it doesn't mean anything and I just get frustrated and lose my temper. If I misquoted you...ever...prove it!

"Beware of the dark side. Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight."

Yoda
Circa A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away

Raven, don't let him get to you like that, it's his lousy tactic, you'll become like him. Like you said, all he can do is make empty accusations and thinly veiled insults.