President Bush's lies now a tough sell

"Why, of course, the people don't want war, (but) the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." - Hermann Goering, April 18, 1946

There's a reason why President Bush's speech on Iraq last week went unheard by most Americans and hasn't changed his sagging poll numbers. He and his administration have a credibility problem that Democrats and Independents have seen for some time and some Republicans are starting to acknowledge.

The 2002 Downing Street Memo is just the latest blow. While the memo has been trashed by conservative bloggers and right-wing blowhards like Rush Limbaugh, it has been authenticated by two senior British officials. It states that the British believed Bush had decided to go to war long before he told the public and says that "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

The memo also said Saddam's WMD capability was "less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran."

Nine Senate Democrats have called for an investigation but of course, the Republicans will never investigate. According to the GOP, lying under oath about oral pleasure is an impeachable offense while lying to take the nation to war isn't even worth an investigation.

Maybe they're smart in covering for their fearless leader when a recent Zogby poll showed that even 25 percent of Republicans would want Bush impeached if it could be shown he lied about the reasons for war.

Republican senators such as Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, John McCain of Arizona, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and congressmen such as Ron Paul of Texas and Walter Jones of North Carolina have criticized Bush's handling of Iraq.

"The White House is completely disconnected from reality. It's like they're just making it up as they go along,"Hagel said recently.

Bush's numbers are down because the public has questions about this policy. We've got 1,700 soldiers dead, 13,000 wounded and war costs set to top $230 billion. What could we have gotten for that money here in our country? What have we gotten for all of this sacrifice in Iraq?

I'll tell you two things we've gotten. This past Sunday, the Iraqi government acknowledged its security forces have been resorting to the same sort of torture and abuses that Saddam used. Did our soldiers die to replace a horrible regime with another?

The other story is that the CIA and State Department says that Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as a training ground for terrorists. Terrorists are getting extensive training in urban combat, especially through the use of improvised explosive devices. They've exported the tactics back to Afghanistan and are using them against us in that conflict. George Bush misled us when he told us Iraq was a terrorist training ground two years ago, but he's definitely made that situation come true.

The bottom line is that we no longer believe this administration. And with his polls tanking, Bush reached for a familiar playbook. Bush always accuses his detractors of forgetting the lessons of 9-11. Well, he seems to remember his personal lesson from 9-11: Exploit it whenever you're in a political jam.

This time it's not selling. Through deception, he sold the public on a war that's cost us in lives and treasure, that has antagonized and emboldened our enemies and driven U.S. prestige among out allies to an all time low. The worst part is its made us no safer. Fool us twice, shame on us.

These are the people and the party that represent you?

Wow. Have fun donating.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
Ex-Clinton Aide Charges Republicans 'Want to Kill Us'
By Jered Ede
CNSNews.com Correspondent
July 15, 2005

(CNSNews.com) - Young liberals this week flocked to the nation's capital to hear, among other things, liberal television pundit and Democrat political strategist Paul Begala accuse Republicans of wanting to kill him and his children to preserve tax cuts for the rich.

Begala was featured at the first-ever Campus Progress National Student Conference, which was designed to provide campus liberals with the tools necessary to fight the conservative movement. The event also drew former President Bill Clinton, for whom Begala once worked as an advisor.

A panel discussion entitled "Winning the War of Ideas" centered on topics discussed in the book "What's the Matter with Kansas" by Thomas Frank and detailed the challenges that Democrats face in persuading voters in the American heartland and elsewhere to embrace their agenda and support their candidates.

Begala's presence on the panel created a stir when he declared that Republicans had "done a p***-poor job of defending" the U.S.

Republicans, he said, "want to kill us.

"I was driving past the Pentagon when that plane hit" on Sept. 11, 2001. "I had friends on that plane; this is deadly serious to me," Begala said.

"They want to kill me and my children if they can. But if they just kill me and not my children, they want my children to be comforted -- that while they didn't protect me because they cut my taxes, my children won't have to pay any money on the money they inherit," Begala said. "That is bulls*** national defense, and we should say that."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What a wack job.

"Why, of course, the people don't want war, (but) the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." - Hermann Goering, April 18, 1946

One would have to believe that there is no such thing as fascism in Islamic regions. One would have to believe that the US was never threatened by Islamic fascism. One would have to believe that if we just close our eyes long enough, all the evil that threatens freedom will just go away.

Is that realistic?

The fact of the matter is that INTELLIGENT American citizens do not have to be told what to believe by politicians. We are intelligent and KNOW what is going on based on current events... not because we are being fed lies by GW.
And, based on what we know to be true about the nature and purpose of fascism that seeks to destroy freedom, we the wise part of America have decided to boldly DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT rather than stick our heads in the sand and wish it all away like the "other" part of America and Europe does!

So the above quote is completely unappropriate and irrelevant.
denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism
not only is it a TOTAL lack of patriotism, it is a lack of wisdom and strength.

President Bush's lies now a tough sell

"Why, of course, the people don't want war, (but) the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." - Hermann Goering, April 18, 1946

There's a reason why President Bush's speech on Iraq last week went unheard by most Americans and hasn't changed his sagging poll numbers. He and his administration have a credibility problem that Democrats and Independents have seen for some time and some Republicans are starting to acknowledge.

The 2002 Downing Street Memo is just the latest blow. While the memo has been trashed by conservative bloggers and right-wing blowhards like Rush Limbaugh, it has been authenticated by two senior British officials. It states that the British believed Bush had decided to go to war long before he told the public and says that "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

The memo also said Saddam's WMD capability was "less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran."

Nine Senate Democrats have called for an investigation but of course, the Republicans will never investigate. According to the GOP, lying under oath about oral pleasure is an impeachable offense while lying to take the nation to war isn't even worth an investigation.

Maybe they're smart in covering for their fearless leader when a recent Zogby poll showed that even 25 percent of Republicans would want Bush impeached if it could be shown he lied about the reasons for war.

Republican senators such as Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, John McCain of Arizona, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and congressmen such as Ron Paul of Texas and Walter Jones of North Carolina have criticized Bush's handling of Iraq.

"The White House is completely disconnected from reality. It's like they're just making it up as they go along,"Hagel said recently.

Bush's numbers are down because the public has questions about this policy. We've got 1,700 soldiers dead, 13,000 wounded and war costs set to top $230 billion. What could we have gotten for that money here in our country? What have we gotten for all of this sacrifice in Iraq?

I'll tell you two things we've gotten. This past Sunday, the Iraqi government acknowledged its security forces have been resorting to the same sort of torture and abuses that Saddam used. Did our soldiers die to replace a horrible regime with another?

The other story is that the CIA and State Department says that Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as a training ground for terrorists. Terrorists are getting extensive training in urban combat, especially through the use of improvised explosive devices. They've exported the tactics back to Afghanistan and are using them against us in that conflict. George Bush misled us when he told us Iraq was a terrorist training ground two years ago, but he's definitely made that situation come true.

The bottom line is that we no longer believe this administration. And with his polls tanking, Bush reached for a familiar playbook. Bush always accuses his detractors of forgetting the lessons of 9-11. Well, he seems to remember his personal lesson from 9-11: Exploit it whenever you're in a political jam.

This time it's not selling. Through deception, he sold the public on a war that's cost us in lives and treasure, that has antagonized and emboldened our enemies and driven U.S. prestige among out allies to an all time low. The worst part is its made us no safer. Fool us twice, shame on us.

So this is what you do? You cut and paste blog articles from the internet and pass them off as your own ideas? And you accuse us of not thinking for ourselves???

This is rankest hypocrisy. You have no credibility at all. At least have the integrity to use quotes and state where you copied the information. Don't plagiarize.

MonsterMark, please talk to this guy.

So this is what you do? You cut and paste blog articles from the internet and pass them off as your own ideas? And you accuse us of not thinking for ourselves???

This is rankest hypocrisy. You have no credibility at all. At least have the integrity to use quotes and state where you copied the information. Don't plagiarize.

I never said they were my ideas, they are ideas I agree with. I am not naive enough to beleive everything that passes from Shrubs mouth, nor do I think someone doesn't love this country because they criticize it. Here's a link to the articles origin:http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6866. I forgot to list it, and by the time I noticed it was too late to edit.
Hope this will calm the verbal diarrhea you are suffering from, at least somewhat.
Also like you to explain to me the hypocrisy of my posting an article or editorial. Please, enlighten me, oh great repug guru. If you don't respond immediately, I'll understand that you are probably still laying face down on your bed kicking and crying. Maybe once you get over yourself you can respond.

A Plane Hit the Pentagon on Sept 11?
You all positive about that?

You do the research.

;)

According to Paul Bagala, it did. I guess he saw it.http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com//images/icons/icon7.gif His friends died. What more proof do you want?

Quote: Paul Begala.."I was driving past the Pentagon when that plane hit" on Sept. 11, 2001. "I had friends on that plane; this is deadly serious to me," Begala said.

Umm.. Ok.

And according to our illustrious president, Saddam was a bad man who had WMD's.

;)

Umm.. Ok.

And according to our illustrious president, Saddam was a bad man who had WMD's.

;)

Which is all exactly true.

I was face down in bed, but I wasn't kicking or crying. There was a beautiful woman under me. That's why this comes so late.

I never said they were my ideas, they are ideas I agree with. I am not naive enough to beleive everything that passes from Shrubs mouth, nor do I think someone doesn't love this country because they criticize it. Here's a link to the articles origin:http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6866. I forgot to list it, and by the time I noticed it was too late to edit.
Hope this will calm the verbal diarrhea you are suffering from, at least somewhat.
Also like you to explain to me the hypocrisy of my posting an article or editorial. Please, enlighten me, oh great repug guru. If you don't respond immediately, I'll understand that you are probably still laying face down on your bed kicking and crying. Maybe once you get over yourself you can respond.



That's the problem you have. You don't ever post your own ideas.
Your hypocrisy is that you hardly ever post without including some long article that SOMEBODY ELSE WROTE. You accuse us "repugs" (slur) of not thinking for ourselves and spouting the party line, but you can check my posts, I hardly ever use quotes from other people except to back up a point that I've already made on my own. You, on the other hand, spam these long articles that nobody wants to read. I would submit, man to man, that I would rather hear what YOU think about an issue, and let's debate it on the merits. Instead you attack, call names, and accuse. You are afraid of arguing the merits of an issue because you might get your bubble burst, so you resort to the politics of personal destruction.

And let's get one thing straight: Your naivete stems from believing everything the radical left says, no matter how much it is discredited. (Michael Moore, Al Franken, Dan Rather, Howard Dean, etc.)

And, by the way, verbal diarrhea by definition means that your mouth runs and runs. If you do an average word count of posts you will see that you suffer much more than I from that malaise.

Of course, most of your words aren't really yours anyway, are they?

At least none of GW's former Bizness partners have been found Dead (whitewater)

My wifes uncle is a (EX)CIA , since he lives on the east coast
I realy haven't goten to speek to him face to face since the war started. He never says much on the phone . I can't wait utill he comes to Ca , We do have some crazy talks.

At least none of GW's former Bizness partners have been found Dead (whitewater)


None of his former staff has ended up in jail either, unlike Clinton.

None of his former staff has ended up in jail either, unlike Clinton.
YET. But plenty of his large contributors have or will. Ken Lay for example.

YET. But plenty of his large contributors have or will. Ken Lay for example.

You don't want to go there. How many Bush contributors are drug traffickers that have had their photo taken with him?

You don't want to go there. How many Bush contributors are drug traffickers that have had their photo taken with him?
You keep throwing out comments like this, I guess you're expecting them to bother me. Once again, I was not a Bubba supporter. That aside, what does that have to do with current events? We are talking about the current occupant of the White House and his improprieties. Have a problem with Bubba? Too bad, guess you repugs screwed up cause you didn't nail him when you had the chance. Doesn't buy Shrubby a free pass.
:waving:

Does anyone see a pattern here. Bring up GWB's 41% approval rating and they start talking about Clinton. I didn't vote for Clinton either but that doesn't make GWB any less an idiot.

I've looked back at these threads and that's all they do. "GWB bad=Clinton bad too, so GWB is just as good as Clinton. What are you Libs bitching about?"

I'd take a BJ over a butt-**** anyday. That's exactly what GWB is doing to us for his big spender puppeteers.

Does anyone see a pattern here. Bring up GWB's 41% approval rating and they start talking about Clinton. I didn't vote for Clinton either but that doesn't make GWB any less an idiot.

I've looked back at these threads and that's all they do. "GWB bad=Clinton bad too, so GWB is just as good as Clinton. What are you Libs bitching about?"

I'd take a BJ over a butt-**** anyday. That's exactly what GWB is doing to us for his big spender puppeteers.

See, you continue to misquote us. GWB isn't just as good as Clinton, he's WAY BETTER. Just wait and see how history looks back on the two men. You'll see. Your spinning won't be a factor then.

Waaaaaaaaaaaah


????

Does anyone see a pattern here. Bring up GWB's 41% approval rating and they start talking about Clinton.

Barry is a big fan of polls. Too bad they didn't get Kerry elected. Please don't toss out the pooling results unless you can also supply the polling data with dems/repubs interviewed and maybe the actual questions asked, and oh, yeh, the geographics and demographics. The is no way in hell that less than 50% of the people disapprove of the way Bush is handling things. To believe otherwise is simply drinking the blue koolaid. Right Johnny?

The is no way in hell that less than 50% of the people disapprove of the way Bush is handling things.

I agree with you 100% Bryan.

:dancefool :iconcur: :N :dancefool

OK Bryan,

Forget the polls. Get your head out of the sand and ask some of your friends.

I agree with you 100% Bryan.

:dancefool :iconcur: :N :dancefool

LOL...I think Bryan meant more than 50%, didn't you Bryan? :slam

LOL...I think Bryan meant more than 50%, didn't you Bryan? :slam

That's what I'd call a Freudian slip. LOL.

:N

Believe it Bryan....... nearly unanimously, polls are showing more disapproval than approval for Shrub.

http://www.pollkatz.homestead.com/files/pollkatzmainGRAPHICS_10331_image001.gif

What is SO TELLING about BuSh and his effect on this country's mentality: note the ONLY 3 jumps in his ratings........ 9/11, start of Iraq war, and capture of Saddam. Other than that, it's all been downhill. Looks like the only way BuSh will fix his ratings is to capture OBL, attack Iran, or get attacked again. MAN is this country in a SAD, SAD, SAD state of affairs!

That's a good graph but is pretty much what I would expect when the media drumbeats negativity. I mean come on, when everything you hear and see is negative, of course it affects the way you feel.

Almost everybody I know in business is doing great.

People are living larger and eating better than ever before.

The world view toward terrorism is changing. People are starting to see it for what it is. Savage random attacks on innocent people. As that view changes, opinions about the US will change, for the better.

Bush will appoint a Supreme Court justice or two, we'll get Bin Laden, and economy will continue to grow, we'll pass Social Security reform and young kids will join the GOP to enjoy the fruits of our labor.

All's well. Polls change. Just wait. Bush is too good a President. The truth about what he is accomplishing will come out and people will respond. When people realize the wool that has been pulled over their eyes, there will be a baklash against the Democratic Party. Just wait and see.

I agree with you 100% Bryan.

:dancefool :iconcur: :N :dancefool

I was/am tempted to use my power to rectify the situation but to see it have such a wonderful effect on Phil, I'll need to let it stand. When's the last time anyone saw Phil dance and agree with me at the same time?http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com//images/icons/icon12.gif

Bryan,

You need to take off the BuSh goggles. When the housing bubble bursts GWB's house of cards will come crashing down.

Fossten,

When I'm addressing something to Bryan, please try to keep your nose out of it.

Bryan,

You need to take off the BuSh goggles. When the housing bubble bursts GWB's house of cards will come crashing down.

Fossten,

When I'm addressing something to Bryan, please try to keep your nose out of it.

That's just like a liberal to try censoring people.

No, you just seem to lack any level of civility. Please mind your own business. When I ask your opinion, you'll know it. Until then please try to refrain from commenting when I ask someone else a question.

Originally Posted by Frogman
Umm.. Ok.

And according to our illustrious president, Saddam was a bad man who had WMD's.

Which is all exactly true.

PROVE IT! Show us the WMDs that Saddam supposedly has / had.

PROVE IT! Show us the WMDs that Saddam supposedly has / had.


Ok, guys, I can't help it, this is absolutely retarded! Do you not remember when Saddam Hussein gassed thousands of his OWN PEOPLE? Come on, I don't even have to swing hard to knock this one out of the park! What planet do you live on, honestly???


Saddam's Chemical Weapons Campaign: Halabja, March 16, 1988

Bureau of Public Affairs
Washington, DC
March 14, 2003 (PDF (http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/18817.pdf))


http://www.state.gov/cms_images/halabja.jpg
Saddam Hussein is the first world leader in modern times to have brutally used chemical weapons against his own people. His goals were to systematically terrorize and exterminate the Kurdish population in northern Iraq, to silence his critics, and to test the effectiveness of his chemical and biological weapons. Hussein launched chemical attacks against 40 Kurdish villages and thousands of innocent civilians in 1987-88, using them as testing grounds. The worst of these attacks devastated the city of Halabja on March 16, 1988.Halabja Casualties

5,000 civilians, many of them women, children, and the elderly, died within hours of the attack. 10,000 more were blinded, maimed, disfigured, or otherwise severely and irreversibly debilitated.


Thousands died of horrific complications, debilitating diseases, and birth defects in the years after.

Immediate Medical Effects in HalabjaChemical Weapons Used

Death by asphyxiation
Skin burns and blisters
Impaired vision, blindness
Breathing difficulty, respiratory shutdown
Vomiting, diarrhea, digestive shutdown
Neurological disorder
Convulsions, coma


Saddam's regime purposefully mixed mustard gas and nerve agents to magnify their initial and long-term effects.


Mustard gas, a blistering agent, affects membranes of the nose, throat, and lungs.
Nerve agents such as sarin, tabun, and VX attack eyes and respiratory tracts.
Chemical weapons contaminate the food and water supplies, soil, and animal populations.
Long-term Medical Effects
Halabja: A Testing Ground

Permanent blindness
Disfigurement
Respiratory, digestive, and neurological disorders
Leukemia, lymphoma, and colon, breast, lung, skin, and other cancers
Increased miscarriages and infertility
Severe congenital malformations and other birth defects
Iraqi soldiers in protective gear returned to Halabja to study the effectiveness of their weapons and attacks. They divided the city into grids, determining the number and location of the dead and extent of injury. Halabja helped Saddam Hussein gauge the ability of his chemical agents to kill, maim, and terrorize population centers.

"Iraqi government troops would be surrounding the attack site and they would have chem-bio suits on...included would be doctors and interested observers...they would go in and find out how many people were dead...and how many survived. What ages ...did men, women or children or the elderly suffer more? From there they would shoot the survivors and burn the bodies... "

Dr. Christine Gosden, Liverpool University,
who has developed treatment and research programs for Halabja survivors



http://www.state.gov/images/i_spcr01.gif

Welcome to two decades ago. <---- IRRELEVANT to the WMD question, you know, the WMDs that "justified" the 2003 Iraq war??

Welcome to two decades ago. <---- IRRELEVANT to the WMD question, you know, the WMDs that "justified" the 2003 Iraq war??

That's the best you've got? That's your best shot? Come on, pal. You said prove it and I did.

Your statement about the WMDs justifying the Iraq war is irrelevant. The Iraq war was a direct result of Saddam Hussein refusing to comply with UN resolution after UN resolution, and even your lib buddies in Washington agreed with the UN and the US in going into Iraq. It was only after discovering that the WMDs had been moved that you guys started your shrill attacks. Need I remind you that there was evidence found that indicated that the weapons had been hidden and removed from their hiding places?

We're not going to debate WMDs again. We all know they aren't there. But everybody knows that Saddam HAD them b/c he used them. It would be naive to think that he used up all his weapons on the Kurds and had none left! Common sense [should] tell you that.

It seems like the libs want everyone to close their eyes and count to 10, hoping that the threat of terrorism will go away. Well it won't!! It's been around for too long, and it's nice to finally see a world leader(atleast in my lifetime, I'm only 23) doing something about it besides saying "Shame on you Saddam! Please don't kill millions of your people, or we will have to reduce the amount of money we give a little bit!" I mean please, the only thing that's going to come out of the libs way of thinking, is that when your eyes are closed, and you're busy counting, the terrorists are going to pull your pants down and shove a bomb up your....... And it's amazing to hear that what we do in Iraq is worthless!! How about democratic elections???? Look at the turnout in Iraq to elections compared to America, and we doin't even have the threat of being bombed by some a-hole when we vote. GO DEMOCRACY!!!! JUST WITHOUT THE DEMOCRATS!!!!


ps. what a way to pop my posting cherry!! can I even say that? if not, I apologize and will edit it out...

It seems like the libs want everyone to close their eyes and count to 10, hoping that the threat of terrorism will go away. Well it won't!! It's been around for too long, and it's nice to finally see a world leader(atleast in my lifetime, I'm only 23) doing something about it besides saying "Shame on you Saddam! Please don't kill millions of your people, or we will have to reduce the amount of money we give a little bit!" I mean please, the only thing that's going to come out of the libs way of thinking, is that when your eyes are closed, and you're busy counting, the terrorists are going to pull your pants down and shove a bomb up your....... And it's amazing to hear that what we do in Iraq is worthless!! How about democratic elections???? Look at the turnout in Iraq to elections compared to America, and we doin't even have the threat of being bombed by some a-hole when we vote. GO DEMOCRACY!!!! JUST WITHOUT THE DEMOCRATS!!!!


ps. what a way to pop my posting cherry!! can I even say that? if not, I apologize and will edit it out...Welcome. Keep your comments on target and stay away from personal attacks and you will do just fine here. Again, keep your comments non-personal and generalized. Unfortunately, as people can see, the division between left and right is getting greater and the politics of personal destruction is the reason why. Both sides are guilty but politics in Washington today has become a game of tit-for-tat and one can see that manifesting itself in the discussions here.

Let's show Washington how civil discourse is supposed to look and sound like. Argue your point with passion but be respectful of others and then we can all learn something from each other.

Thanks.

I do apologizee if this was taken as a personal attack on anyone particular person or persons in this forum! I don't hate any one person, but I do reserve the right to disagree with a group of people vehemently. That being said, I honestly don't believe my remarks were anymore inflammatory than most of the remarks in the thread. However, I do realize that I am a guest on you forum, and again will apologize for any conduct or comments seen as incendiary.

And by the way, how is it that I come here to this forum for advice and tips on my LS, and my first few posts are in the Politics forum? The law student in me will never die. Can you guys ban me from the Politics forum so I can strictly stick to business on this site?? J/K You should probably ban me from this forum just for ever wanting to be a lawyer anyways!!! Again, J/K, my future wife is in Emory Law right now, and I love her for it(read: stay at home and work on the car dad!! Yeah right, I wish......)

You've joined us at the peak of discord in this forum. MonsterMark is just reacting to a recent spate of lively discourse that has frequently gone over the edge.

Both sides have been guilty of name calling and making some fairly hateful statements. I admit to being reactionary when attacked. I also admit, as will Bryan, that we often will post articles just to get a reaction. Much has been said recently about posting articles. It is viewed by some as merely parroting a particular viewpoint. In fact, it is and it plays a large part of the discourse because we are not all master wordsmiths and we rely on professional writers to make our points for us. I see nothing wrong with this format.

I would make a suggestion that we can all assume that a posted piece that starts a conversation is not written by the person that posts it. Mistakes are made. However, I do believe that credit should be given where due.

Due to the fact that the site does not have a spellchecker, please refrain from denegrating someones work because of a spelling error. It's just bad form.

Everyone on the right views me as a lefty but I think I'm much more Conservative on fiscal issues and more Liberal on social issues. Since I am viewed as a lefty I would ask my fellow lefty contibutors to continue the barbs without the blood.

Someone posted a phrase on this web site that really stuck with me.

"An opinion can't be right or wrong, it's just an opinion."

That being said, I honestly don't believe my remarks were anymore inflammatory than most of the remarks in the thread. However, I do realize that I am a guest on you forum, and again will apologize for any conduct or comments seen as incendiary.Mark, as Barry indicated, my comments were not directed at you per se, they were intended as kind of a group comment. Lot's of guys look in on these debates and we want them to feel comfortable in joining in the discussion. The more the merrier. But I also want the newbies to the forum to know the basic rule here. Everything pretty goes and all is fair and love and war but keep the personal attacks out of it. Oh, and grow a thick skin, you'll need it. That being said, I did not find your 'virgin' posts at all inflammatory or personal. It just so happened that your post coincided with some comments I thought were necessary to say to keep the peace and keep the dialogue humming along.


And by the way, how is it that I come here to this forum for advice and tips on my LS, and my first few posts are in the Politics forum? The law student in me will never die. Can you guys ban me from the Politics forum so I can strictly stick to business on this site??As far as the lawyer thing, I will pray for you. I have two pretty accomplished brothers that are attorneys and practicing law is probably the last thing I would want to do. But I guess guys like you (attorneys) are a necessary evil.http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com//images/icons/icon12.gif

As as far as your personal challenge to resist the allure of the political forum, forget it. It becomes intoxicating and would require a great amount of restraint on your part to 'skip' over it every time you visit the Board. Sorry, but that's the way it is.http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com//images/icons/icon10.gif

MonsterMark, don't worry, I'm not a practicing lawyer. I'm something even worse. I'm a loan officer. But to my credit, I'm also a small business owner, and co-owner of another business with my brother-in-law. But, please, continue to pray for me :) Mortgages can be a dirty business.

PS: if you ever want any advice or help with mortgages or real estate investing, please feel free to ask me any questions that you want. If I can't answer it, it'll be good for me to find out the answer for my own personal knmowledge anyways.

PPS: if you are a loan officer, definately contact me, because I'm also a recruiter for Chase, Wells, and a bunch of other banks and mortgage companies.

Typical salesman, always trying to sneak in a sales pitch, right?? haha

PPS: if you are a loan officer, definately contact me, because I'm also a recruiter for Chase, Wells, and a bunch of other banks and mortgage companies.Threadjack.... I have a buddy who owns a mortgage company and I got tired of paying him commission so I became a loan officer myself so I could do my own mortgages. I just do them for myself and family members. I only charge enough so the backside pays for the frontside. But I understand the thrill of 3 points on the back and 1 or 2 on the front.http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com//images/icons/icon10.gif