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Suspension Problems

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Posted by: d00dz

Hi, I have a 1988 Mark VII LSC and lately I've been having some suspension problems.

About a while ago the car would not drop on the rear-right side whenever the car was turned off and left. The car would remain at that stance indefinetly (looking funny).
It didn't really bother me and I just put fixing the suspension off as it wasn't really important. However not long ago while driving the suspension light came on after about 5 minutes of driving and the front left (drivers side) suspension COMPLETELY deflated. As you can imagine the ride was VERY ROUGH as the car was really low to the ground on that side (the top of the rubber is below the top of the wheel well flare). Obviously something is wrong, as I drove the Mark VII a few more times since then and it happeneds every time.
However another problem I noticed when I turned off the air suspension in the trunck is that the rear passenger side suspension does not want to deflate (It reamins at maximum) so i solved why the car doesn't want to lower on that side when it is off.

So as you can imagine the car is very lopsided since the front left is fully deflated and rear right is fully imflated.

Does anybody know waht could be wrong, and if it is worth fixing the problem or converting it to springs.

The car has 207,000 kms.

Thanks

Posted by: OldSchool1

Welcome back.
What have you done in addition to what you posted?

Posted by: Strutmasters

The first thing I would check is the height sensors and make sure they have not been displaced. Then I would do a physical inspection of each air bag to check for leaks. Look around the bottom of the air spring and check for vertical cracks around the fold of the rubber. If everything is OK there then I would look toward maybe replacing the module if you want to keep the air suspension. The conversion kit is always a good option on these cars for the money. If you have any questions about that let me know and I would be glad to help you as much as possible.

Thanks,
Strutmasters Team
866-597-2397

Posted by: WALT

You have some confused components and possible multiple failures
but got to understand the operating logic first -- the whole rear is programmed to go up or down based on the single ride height sensor
on the rear axle that operates the LH & RH solenoids together -- the car will not settle after driving until the drivers door is closed -- then the whole rear should be together -- it should never go all the way down -- the module has 1 hour to make these adjustments then no further commands are processed - and then it will only descend to " Ride Height " -- and if there are no leaks it will stay at ride height virtually forever -- If one side of the rear is settling and the other not --the side going down probably has a leaky bag or bad solenoid -- The very first thing to do is see if it will pump up, turn off switch in trunk and let is sit overnight then see what is up or down the next morning -- If you cannot get it pumped up then your pump /dryer is not creating enough pressure to get evereything where it needs to be --
Put a pressure gauge on the port and see if its at least 120 psi - If its not, then you have a massive leak or bad pump --- The bags can cross bleed into each other through the dryer ( which is a common manifold for all 4 lines ) and when the solenoids are "open " trying to pump up a low side in the front or the rear -- The ride height sensors are pretty bullet proof and usually only bad from poor maintenance practices or road debris damage -- The ride control module is also a very tough piece and usually does not go bad --
I have 2 spare modules so if after doing the testing, you wind up needing one - send me an E-mail Tallman910@aol.com
Happy Hunting

Posted by: dblackhawk

I'm having the same problem with air bags filling differently.
Can someone please tell me where the sensors are for the front and back bags? Also, can air be put into the system through the port on the pump, and if so, how much?
I live on a dirt road, so I, no doubt have damaged something. I hear the pump running, but it's not as loud as it used to be, nor does it work as fast. When the air bags deflate, they only do so partially and also not as much as hey used to.
Thanks !

Posted by: OldSchool1

Welcome to LVC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

I'm having the same problem with air bags filling differently.
Can someone please tell me where the sensors are for the front and back bags?

There are two in the front connected to the control arms. They are Hall Effect switches. They RARELY fail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

Also, can air be put into the system through the port on the pump, and if so, how much?

Yes, but only when the solenoids on the bags open. This only happens when there is a call to add or remove air from the spring. Over one hundred pounds. I would not attempt this with stock air springs. No matter how much air you add, if your air spring (a rubber product) has a hole in it, it will not hold air.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

I live on a dirt road, so I, no doubt have damaged something.

Normally no. Air springs are a rubber product that need to be replaced as often as, if not more frequently than, tires.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

I hear the pump running, but it's not as loud as it used to be, nor does it work as fast.

A loud pump is a dying pump. A loud pump that is now quiet is probably a dead pump.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

When the air bags deflate, they only do so partially and also not as much as hey used to.

The hole in your air spring is below the fold. When the vehicle gets lowered and the air spring folds over, it's covering the hole. Replace your air springs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

Thanks !

You're welcome!

Posted by: dblackhawk

what is the air port for under the hood and underneath the pump? Excuse my ignorance, but I like my Mark VII and want to keep and enjoy it.

Posted by: dblackhawk

OK. Let me clear the clutter in my head.
My Lincoln Mark VII is a 1988 model. (I think it's the best car I ever owned, and I'm 52). Sometimes the car levels and rides just fine, even on the 7 mile dirt road leading to my house. The front end (when car is shut off) drops lower on the driver's side than on the passenger side. So, I believe that the pump is working fine.
Lately, I can be riding along, and the air will leak out (maybe that's what's happening), but, when I turn off the engine and turn it back on, it will level again and usually stays that way. The back always remains at ride level, even after sitting all night.
Even when the front end levels though, I don't believe that it raises enough. Could that mean it's low on air and some has to be added?
Could the air holes (release) be blocked by mud? What can one do to maintain the system (besides changing parts). I've only had the car 9 months, and when I bought it about 10 months ago, the whole suspension system had been restored to like new.
Thanks for all the help.

Posted by: OldSchool1

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

what is the air port for under the hood and underneath the pump? Excuse my ignorance, but I like my Mark VII and want to keep and enjoy it.

The air port is used to fill the air spring system only when the compressor has completely failed or when a temporary operating air pressure of the compressor head, is needed.

Posted by: OldSchool1

Bear with the lengthy answers as you've asked some questions that can't be summed up with a yes or no

Before continuing, verify that your over head, amber colored, check suspension light works by temporarily turning off your suspension switch in the trunk. Next, insert your key in the ignition and turn to the first notch. The lamp should come on and remain on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

OK. Let me clear the clutter in my head.

You're in the wrong forum. For head clearing, you'll want to visit
http://www.PSYCHOLOGYvsPSYCHIATRY.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

My Lincoln Mark VII is a 1988 model. (I think it's the best car I ever owned, and I'm 52). Sometimes the car levels and rides just fine, even on the 7 mile dirt road leading to my house. The front end (when car is shut off) drops lower on the driver's side than on the passenger side. So, I believe that the pump is working fine.

It is the best car that ANYONE can ever own.
The level of which the car drops does not indicate the condition of the compressor. What it MAY be more indicative of is the size of the holes in your air springs or the amount of damage to the o-rings or the air lines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

Lately, I can be riding along, and the air will leak out (maybe that's what's happening), but, when I turn off the engine and turn it back on, it will level again and usually stays that way. The back always remains at ride level, even after sitting all night.

This tells me that your compressor has been told to run for too long and has timed out. This is a safety feature. When this happens, the amber CHECK SUSPENSION light is supposed to light and stay lit until the suspension module has been reset by cycling the car's power (hence the bulb check mentioned earlier).

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

Even when the front end levels though, I don't believe that it raises enough. Could that mean it's low on air and some has to be added?

No. It means the opposite of what I mentioned above about the air spring; The hole in your air spring is below the fold. When the vehicle gets raised and the air spring unfolds, it's uncovering the hole. With the hole uncovered, further inflation is either slow or impossible. If the compressor runs too long then the safety cuts it off and turns on ... you guessed it ... the amber light.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

Could the air holes (release) be blocked by mud?

Not likely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

What can one do to maintain the system (besides changing parts).

In colder climates, regularly replenishing the desseccant beads is about it. See: http://www.thelincolnmarkviiclub.org/tech/airDryer.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

I've only had the car 9 months, and when I bought it about 10 months ago, the whole suspension system had been restored to like new.

All four of the air springs could have been replaced.
The air dryer could have been replaced.
The air compressor could have been replaced.
The air lines could have been replaced.

If any one the 16 o-rings were reused or damaged during reassembly, then the entire system can be thrown off as every part of our air spring system reacts to every other part in the system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

Thanks for all the help.

You're welcome for the help.

Posted by: 93zzzt

Coils are > than air!

(Let the fight begin!!!!)

I couldn't help myself. I just couldn't.

Posted by: OldSchool1

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93zzzt

Coils are > than air!

(Let the fight begin!!!!)

I couldn't help myself. I just couldn't.

hehehe
You're allowed one.

Posted by: ND4SPDLSC

From what you describe, it sounds like one front air spring is leaking. Whichever corner sinks first on an end shows a leak. A whole end can sink though because the weight and the anti-roll bars can force a spring to compress. A corner with a leak might not lift enough because the leak is preventing the spring from filling past a certain point.

The schraeder valve on the compressor is used to supply auxiliary air pressure to the suspension. It can be used to fill the springs if the system is on and the solenoids to the springs are electronically opened via the computer at startup or during a leveling sequence. You need a minimum of 120-125 psi to fill the suspension and you need a compressor with a decent sized tank to provide the sustained volume needed. A tire air compressor won't do squat.

To verify existence of leaks, drive the car on a paved road with some bumps with the air suspension off and at normal ride height. If it sinks, you've confirmed a leak and eliminated electrical issues from the equation. Replace the spring with a reman one from Bagmaster in TX or a new Ford spring if you want LSC handling and ride. A softer base/Bill Blass spring can be used on an LSC in axle pairs. Arnott and the other aftermarket companies have versions of these. The springs are still the soft ones, regardless of what they label it.

Posted by: dblackhawk

Well, I took my Lincoln Mark VII (Bill Blass) to the Ford dealer and had it diagnosed. They said the only thing wrong was the front airbags had cracks in them and had to be replaced. Although they wanted to redo the whole system for $ 1600.
OK ! The air bags were ordered and are finally here, now I'm deciding whether I should tackle the replacement myself. I DID check out the repair page about it.
I've heard it mentioned here that when putting the air line back on the new bags, use silicone. My question is: what kind of silicone? There's silicone sealant (like RTV), and then there's silicone spray lubricant.
Wouldn't this be easier on a lift? I'm kinda apprehensive about starting it and then getting LOST in the process. It's the only transportation I have, (and I'm definately not complaining).
ANY SUGGESTIONS/ANSWERS ?
THANKS

Posted by: jimbob

you need the silicone spray lubricant, its also known as dielectric grease. I believe silicone grease and dielectric grease to be all pretty much the same thing and suitable for lubing the airlines and o-rings.

I just swapped out my front bags, its a very staright forward process, if you just follow the instructions carefully, especially the sections on refilling, you cant really go wrong. I used Arnott bags, and their instructions are excellent. You can also obtain them off their website. if your using you're existing solenoids, then swap ALL the o-rings out, Arnott bags come with a new set of o-rings anyways. Make sure you lube the o-rings on the solenoid as well as the airlines so that they install properly without pinching.

You dont really need a lift, i lifted each front corner up onto jack stands when i did each side, and didnt have any problems.

Posted by: OldSchool1

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblackhawk

...
It's the only transportation I have, (and I'm definately not complaining).
ANY SUGGESTIONS/ANSWERS ?
THANKS

What JimBob said.

If this is your ONLY means of transportation AND this is your first time doing air springs then I would schedule two days off from work "just in case".

When we work on our 14 - 22 year old cars, we sometimes disturb parts that haven't been moved in over a decade and they crack under pressure or due to temperature or because we turned too far while watching a hot babe walk down the street.

This can be a 30 minute per wheel job or it can be the week from hell if you break bolts or clips or splenoids. Dropping a brass gromet in the dirt can be ... interesting.

"I never really learned to curse until I learned to drive."
- Lynette hendershot

Posted by: OldSchool1

Northeast Arkansas has gotten some unseasonably high and lo temperatures due to an El Nino in the South Pacific this year.

I'm interested in how Dude made out but I'm afraid that his car is like sitting in 20 degree weather somewhere.

BTW .. 20 degree weather is NOT the time to work on 14 year old plastic air lines that may have condensation frozen in them. They snap easier than icicles.