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may be a dumb question, DO we have a 'posi' traction?

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Posted by: IL-LS

So I am more familiar to the truck and SUV world. I know my tahoe had a locking rear diff where if the tires would spin it would lock up the one on the dry pavement as well. FOr most cars are typically 1 wheel drive,,,, the wheel on the loose stuff..

So will this thing lay one patch or two?

? How does the rear diff work in comparrison to a solid axle diff?

Mike

Posted by: TheLinkLS8

I know when i did it a few times i only left one mark and i totally slammed on it....smoked it very well though...

Posted by: IL-LS

I figured that would be the case, I assume the one w/ least traction will always get the power.

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Nope, its a one tire fire. See here for this demonstrated by me at our LVC meet at the shop with an 05'.

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

The LS differential is an open ("one wheel peel") unit. However, if you have traction control or advance trac, that system will simulate "posi" action by applying the brake to the spinning wheel and transferring torque to the other drive wheel. Alot of SUVs and cars work the same way (a 4-channel ABS system is a must, which provides the individual wheel speed sensors used by the traction control system).

Posted by: IL-LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONEBADMK8

Nope, its a one tire fire. See here for this demonstrated by me at our LVC meet at the shop with an 05'.

LOL sweet!!!

That LS stock? Was there bleach on the ground?

Posted by: BIG CELO

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONEBADMK8

Nope, its a one tire fire. See here for this demonstrated by me at our LVC meet at the shop with an 05'.

Darn Whats under that hood for that LS to peel out like that WOW

Posted by: Fordman

I've lit mine up a few times, I've never power braked it. From a dead stop I can burn about 20 feet, then the left wheel comes in for a couple of feet and the car will break loose in the rear. I also do this with traction control off. And not very often. Tires ain't cheap !!!

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by IL-LS

LOL sweet!!!

That LS stock? Was there bleach on the ground?

Totally stock. No bleach or water.

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG CELO

Darn Whats under that hood for that LS to peel out like that WOW

All stock. Its funny if you watch when the camera pans back to the smoke and you can't even see the Eckerd drug store across the street. It was an amazing amount of smoke.

Posted by: IL-LS

Im always afraid to torque the engine up like that while on the brakes! How high did you have the rpm's? I have held the brake down and got on the gas a little, and the car squats (which is odd in itself??) but im chicken to get on it any harder!

Posted by: IL-LS

Wish I could have done that before I got new tires!!!

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by IL-LS

Im always afraid to torque the engine up like that while on the brakes! How high did you have the rpm's? I have held the brake down and got on the gas a little, and the car squats (which is odd in itself??) but im chicken to get on it any harder!

Where ever the rev limiter holds it. I know the last I looked I was far past 6k.

Posted by: Motts

wish i could do that on my v6... lol

Posted by: IL-LS

Sh!T!! LOL so you put the brake on, and basically floor that thing. Aren't you at risk for breaking SOMETHING? Heating up the TC?

Posted by: BIG CELO

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONEBADMK8

All stock. Its funny if you watch when the camera pans back to the smoke and you can't even see the Eckerd drug store across the street. It was an amazing amount of smoke.

One more question if you have the advance track off and you peel out the way the mpg shows wouldn't you break up something on the advance track system or would it be ok?? I'm going to watch the video again it looks sick!!

Posted by: Motts

wish i could do that on my v6... lol

Posted by: IL-LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG CELO

I would think if it was OFF you would override it, and be okay.. Cant imagine what it would do w/ it on.. besides reduce engine power, apply breaks, man it could be a mess?

Posted by: 00ls5spd

With my V6 manual I can lay down two tracks....even with my 20"s

I can do a really great roll back burn out too. I will sit and spin the tires for quite awhile. but new tires are kinda pricey so I don't do it much!!

Posted by: BIG CELO

Quote:

Originally Posted by IL-LS

I would think if it was OFF you would override it, and be okay.. Cant imagine what it would do w/ it on.. besides reduce engine power, apply breaks, man it could be a mess?

I would like to try it but I'm scared im going to get some check something light and I have to take it to the LM Dealer to get serviced!! The car in the movie sounded like it had a modified cat back system from ONEBADMK8 I may be wrong but ONEBADMK8 did say it was all stock!!

Posted by: IL-LS

I agree, I do that once...i am for sure going to get the CHECK ADVANCETRAC light!! lol

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG CELO

The only thing we had done to that car is an experimental intake that we are working on. Thats why it has a slight "growl" from under the hood.

Posted by: BIG CELO

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONEBADMK8

The only thing we had done to that car is an experimental intake that we are working on. Thats why it has a slight "growl" from under the hood.

oh ok how is that going? The LS sounds sweet!!

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Were just in the playing stages right now. I will post results when finished for sure.

Posted by: BIG CELO

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONEBADMK8

Were just in the playing stages right now. I will post results when finished for sure.

KOOL Keep us posted!!

Posted by: DLS8K

I haven't ever tried to burn the tires off like that. The other thing is........i just got new tires and don't want to be buying more sooner than later. But, with the old tires on it had seemed to burn pretty well.

Posted by: mcafferty

nice but it was over a curb could this be done on level ground? lol

Posted by: Pete02LSE

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcafferty

nice but it was over a curb could this be done on level ground? lol

Yeah...I noticed that too. Seems like concrete would have a more porous surface and would be easier to power brake on. Dunno if I would try that in our LSE on asphalt but...it's cool nonetheless.

Posted by: Quik LS

geeeeeeeeezzzzz - give it a try!!! it ain't hard, STOMP ON IT and hold the brake a bit, then ease up on the brake on walk it out..... it takes a little practice.

have some fun.

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete02LSE

Yeah...I noticed that too. Seems like concrete would have a more porous surface and would be easier to power brake on. Dunno if I would try that in our LSE on asphalt but...it's cool nonetheless.

Concrete is far harder to spin wheels on. Thats why they make the starting lines of nearly every drag strip out of concrete. Its way easier on asphalt. I was on level ground.

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

I noticed when I did my burnout before drag racing, that once the RPMs get up to about 3K, the engine roars to life and sounds really cool. I never stayed in it as long as that video shows (no point w/ street tires), but like Quik says, once those RPMs get up there, let off the brake and walk it out. Looks impressive, but keep in mind that during a one-wheel-peel those spider gears in the diff are spinning (and wearing) like mad. I don't think there are nice beefy roller bearings between the side gears and carrier, just sleeve "bearings" (if you can really call them a bearing at all).

FWIW, there's nothing to break in the advance trac system, its just wheel speed sensors and a brake pump and some valving that is shared w/ the ABS. When it is turned off it does nothing to prevent a one-wheel-peel.

Posted by: DLS8K

So, after hearing all this talk about burn-outs.........i finally decided to give it a try. I made sure to turn my advancetrac was OFF. Laid some pretty good rubber..........but instead of one black mark on the pavement, i had two streaks of rubber going for about 20 feet. I thought someone said the LS would only spin one wheel........so it seems weird to me that with my advancetrac OFF that i could lay two marks. Any ideas?

Posted by: Hawk03

I lay two sets of rubber when I do burn outs also. I always turn my advancetrac off, I thought it had posi traction. The car is a 2000 V8. Can anyone get thier V6 to do a burn out?

Posted by: Dutch

If the weight of the car is even on both sides, and the planets are lined up just right, and you stayed at a Holiday Inn the night before, even an open differential can lay two patches. It's uncommon, but definately possible.

IF you really want to know if your car has a limited slip differential, lift up the rear end and turn one tire. If the opposite tire spins in the same direction, you have limited slip. IF it spins backwards, you have a peg leg.

Posted by: Quik LS

I always lay down two stripes. there's a good 10 miles of rubber from me and my pocket book on the streets of austin.

not sure what happened with that person with the one wheel that lit up.....

Posted by: IL-LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

If the weight of the car is even on both sides, and the planets are lined up just right, and you stayed at a Holiday Inn the night before, even an open differential can lay two patches. It's uncommon, but definately possible.

IF you really want to know if your car has a limited slip differential, lift up the rear end and turn one tire. If the opposite tire spins in the same direction, you have limited slip. IF it spins backwards, you have a peg leg.

LOL!!! LOVE the Holiday inn part!!

Well was locking diff even an option?

Posted by: Motts

any v6 burn outs, is it even possible.. punch it, pull ebrake.. lol

Posted by: MikeB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motts

any v6 burn outs, is it even possible.. punch it, pull ebrake.. lol

I think thats called dragin ass.

My 00LS8 always leaves two black stipes of equal length and the ass end shifts to the left before it streightens out.

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motts

any v6 burn outs, is it even possible.. punch it, pull ebrake.. lol

Uh........ the LS is NOT FWD.

Posted by: tminard18

of course v6's can burnout...manuals

Posted by: whatsupadrian

Why would you pull the ebrake? doesn't that lock the rear brakes???, isn't the goal to lock the front brakes and let the rear tires spin?

Posted by: rocket5979

So does anyone have a locking or limited slip diff in their car, besides what is controlled by the TC??? I wonder if installing a LS diff would mess with the TC? I would think it would not hinder the TC just because what a LSD would do is more or less what the TC would do in a similar situation. Lose traction while accelerating and lock the rears together to gain traction versus applying brake to slipping side thus putting power to the opposite side essentially creating a simulated locked diff. Am I missing something? I am sure there are others out there that know alot more on this than I.

Posted by: Dutch

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket5979

So does anyone have a locking or limited slip diff in their car, besides what is controlled by the TC??? I wonder if installing a LS diff would mess with the TC? I would think it would not hinder the TC just because what a LSD would do is more or less what the TC would do in a similar situation. Lose traction while accelerating and lock the rears together to gain traction versus applying brake to slipping side thus putting power to the opposite side essentially creating a simulated locked diff. Am I missing something? I am sure there are others out there that know alot more on this than I.

There was no limited slip differential offered for the LS, and it would work independently of the traction control. A limited slip differential is a mechanical device with clutches that ensure the axles spin at more or less the same rate. Traction control uses the brake and, under extreme wheelspin, cuts fuel to limit spin. If you have limited slip, you can still spin your tires, they'll just both spin instead of one. Traction control would act by applying the brake to both wheels, and not just one. The two systems are totally independent and could be on the car without any problems. I don't know of any limited slip unit that would work, though. Maybe the Jaguar S-Type R has one...

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

Hehehe. Maybe I didnt explain myself enough. First off I do know that LS's didnt come offered with an LSD rear. I just wanted to know if someone had put one in their car as an aftermarket item. I also do know how a LSD works. lol. One thing about the TC is when you said that the TC works by applying the brake to both wheels? I would think that in a situation where the one wheel peel is happening while accelerating that it would apply the brake to the side that is peeling, thus providing power to the other wheel that actually has traction. I would think that if the TC applied the brakes to both at the same time it would just cause too much of a hiccup in the acceleration of the vehicle to really be affective as a TC system that would give you control of the vehicle without making the vehicle lurch and all that. It would seem more plausible to have the system only applies the brakes to the one wheel while leaving the other one alone to both maximize speed and also maximize traction. Just by sitting down and thinking how the TC system would work I wouldnt think they would interfere with each other. Everytime I could think of where the TC would want to keep the rear open or a simulated locked mode that the LSD would be doing the same thing too. The only thing the LSD would do is when the TC is off it would be great for burnouts and staging at the dragstrip. Having a one wheel wonder is only cool on the street, if that. It would just provide better traction to launch is the biggest reason why I would want it.

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

I know of only one person who started to install a torsen LSD into a boneyard diff case for his LS. IIRC, he started w/ another Ford carrier from a Corbra, but there were some tricks he was going to have to do to get it to fit (can't remember what those tricks were). Overcome by other events, he passed this project onto the west coast LLSOC group to finish (still waiting).

Since off-the-line torque is not the 3.9L's strong suit, the real-world need for a LSD....... for drag racing purposes......... really isn't there. In wet conditions, the TC/Advance-Trac system can do the same job much more inexpensively for Lincoln, while providing a diff that requires much less maintenance. Better for Lincoln, better for 98% of LS buyers who don't drag race. In reality, unless you power-brake or have greasy tires, the LS hooks pretty good.

I seriously doubt that when the TC/AT system detects both rear wheels spinning that it applies brakes to BOTH rear wheels. I think it cuts engine power instead. I know for sure when I stomp it in the snow, there is no massive tug-o-war going on between the engine and the rear brakes.

Posted by: JES_LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

I know of only one person who started to install a torsen LSD into a boneyard diff case for his LS. IIRC, he started w/ another Ford carrier from a Corbra, but there were some tricks he was going to have to do to get it to fit (can't remember what those tricks were). Overcome by other events, he passed this project onto the west coast LLSOC group to finish (still waiting).

Chris started with a torsen diff unit that ford sells for any 8.8 and it fit a stock ls carrier pretty well, its just that he has so many other projects that he will not finish it anytime soon. I got him to send me a list of the parts that he used and will plan on trying to finish one with the manual trans conversion on my ls

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

I seriously doubt that when the TC/AT system detects both rear wheels spinning that it applies brakes to BOTH rear wheels. I think it cuts engine power instead. I know for sure when I stomp it in the snow, there is no massive tug-o-war going on between the engine and the rear brakes.

You are correct there, the AT system just cuts the crap out of the power to kill the wheel spin when both tires let go.

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

Since off-the-line torque is not the 3.9L's strong suit, the real-world need for a LSD....... for drag racing purposes......... really isn't there.

You assume we are talking about a stock LS. Muawuawuawawawaaa!!! I hear ya for stock purposes, but I dont plan on keeping my LS stock when I get it. Not going for supermonster power either, being that I dont care to spend the money to forge/billet the engine with custom CR's and Pistons. I would say that close to 400 flywheel would be good for me. The stock internals shouldnt puke out before then.