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Dems Voted Out of Church Weigh Options

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Posted by: barry2952

Dems Voted Out of Church Weigh Options

By PAUL NOWELL
WAYNESVILLE, N.C. (AP) - A pastor who led a charge to kick out nine church members who refused to support President Bush was the talk of the town Saturday in this mountain hamlet, with ousted congregants considering hiring a lawyer.

Pastor Chan Chandler greeted people at the door of tiny East Waynesville Baptist Church on Saturday evening as the church choir practiced and even welcomed them to attend services Sunday morning - if there's room inside. But he was not prepared to talk about his mixing of religion and politics.

``On the advice of counsel, I've been advised not to have any comment at this time,'' Chandler told The Associated Press. ``We will have a statement later.''

Members of the congregation said Chandler told them during last year's presidential campaign that anyone who planned to vote for Democratic nominee John Kerry needed to leave the church.

Longtime member Selma Morris, who was treasurer at the church, said Chandler's sermons remained political after Bush won re-election. This past week, his comments turned to politics again at a church gathering that ended with nine members voted out.

Morris said Saturday that some of the ousted members planned to meet with an attorney on Monday to discuss their options. ``We're hoping he (the attorney) will make him leave so that the church members can come back,'' she said.

``This is very disturbing,'' said Pastor Robert Prince III, who leads the congregation at the nearby First Baptist Church. ``I've been a pastor for more than 25 years, and I have never seen church members voted out for something like this.''

Those who are still members did not know if the church would be open for services Sunday, or if Chandler would be in the pulpit to preach.

The 100-member East Waynesville Baptist Church sits on a bluff a short distance from downtown Waynesville, a mountain town about 125 miles northwest of Charlotte. A white steeple and stain glass windows adorn the simple brick structure, built in 1965, with a view of the mountains from the front steps.

Across the street sits the church's parsonage, a small brick ranch home with children's toys scattered in the front lawn. A small wooden sign out front reads simply ``The Chandlers.'' No one answered the phone there on Saturday.

In the days since the nine members were ousted, many more members have reportedly left the church in protest.

``He went on and on about how he's going to bring politics up, and if we didn't agree with him, we should leave,'' Isaac Sutton told The News and Observer of Raleigh. ``I think I deserve the right to vote for who I want to.''

Sutton, a deacon who worshipped at East Waynesville Baptist Church for the past 12 years, said he and his wife were among the nine voted out.

``I've been going to this church for 25 years and I've never had a problem,'' Sutton's wife, Lorene, told The Associated Press on Friday. ``He's young and he thinks he knows everything.''

Other former members of the church declined to speak with a reporter Saturday, citing the advice of their attorney. But the furor over politics at the church was the talk of Waynesville, a community of about 9,200 residents.

``It's just an outrage for something like this to happen in America,'' said Heidi Jenkins, 52, as she held a garage sale at her home down the street from the church.

Prince said he noticed during the presidential campaign that more pastors made endorsements - although not from the pulpit - than in past years.

``It used to be that pastors would speak about the issues and not specific candidates,'' he said. ``I think that line is being crossed.''



Posted by: pepperman

That preacher is carrying things to far , these people should not have this happen to them just because they voted for Kerry. Cahndler should be removed from his post as the preacher of that church.



Posted by: MonsterMark

Why don't the Kerry backers start their own congregation?

Edited for Barry:



Posted by: barry2952

You're a sick man Bryan. Or is that just another one of your jokes that you forgot to mark with a smiley face?



Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry2952
You're a sick man Bryan. Or is that just another one of your jokes that you forgot to mark with a smiley face?
Personally I don't give a damn. To each his own.

But let's push things a step further shall we? No, really. Why don't they start a new congregation? Right next door. Then they can attract the kind of people that are like-minded to worship next to. They could even build a bigger church with lots of fancy stuff inside and I'm sure the government would give them the money to build it if they could show that they are all about inclusiveness and such and supportive of people like Kerry and Hillary. Oh that's right, again. We can't have clubs or memberships anymore. We need tolerance training. We have to allow women into men's only golf country clubs but not vice-versa. Women's only health clubs but men can't join.

The left is sick and it needs an enema.

You know what, get a life. If life isn't fair to you, change your situation. If you're so freakish that love for a traitor gets you kicked out of a church, so be it. Or is the left going to say that is the only church for 50 miles and how dare they.

As the left keeps pushing farther to the left, the right will keep pushing farther to the right. You guys can have the left and right coasts and we'll keep the middle. Oh wait once again, that's the way it already is. See the electoral map! Good.

We can't (in wisconsin) even require people to show an ID to vote but you better have one if you want a beer or to 'borrow' a book. We can't have judges serving in the courts that will actually read the law and fairly interpret it. We have to have left-wingers legislate the liberal agenda from the bench. We have to put up with the smut and slime that is shown on prime-time TV now. Actually, we don't. We just turn the crap off.

I drove past a kid in his Subaru yesterday with the Kerry/Edwards sticker still on (Get a life) and a 'What would Jesus bomb' bumper sticker. And I should hang out with this guy and show compassion because why? Because he is a complete and utter moron in every sense of the word?

We want to close a public grade school in our city because we have 5 of them and don't need one. Right away the crazies come running out about how the kids will be learning in closets and all that crap. But, I am forced to walk into the brand new grade school we have with the best of everything. I see the computer class has row upon row of computers. My kid at his school has 5 to share. Wait, 4 weeks later there are row upon row of sleek new Dell computers with 21" flat panel screens. Then the New high school goes up and they have to install 8 42" plasma monitors screens in the lunch room at a cost of $54,000. Why, because they had the money. My frikkin money.

Keep pushing lefties. We're fed up and we're not gonna take it anymore.



Posted by: crazyman

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterMark
I drove past a kid in his Subaru yesterday with the Kerry/Edwards sticker still on (Get a life) and a 'What would Jesus bomb' bumper sticker. And I should hang out with this guy and show compassion because why? Because he is a complete and utter moron in every sense of the word?
You can tell if someone is a COMPLETE and UTTER moron simply by 2 bumper stickers?You need to get off that f***ing high horse of yours.The fact that someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make him a moron.IN FACT, someone who reads that response may think the same of you. Obviously you are having a hard time realising that some of those people started attending that church 25 years ago to worship god, not to discuss politics, and certainly not to be condemmed for exercising their goddamn AMERICAN right to choose a president. They have friends there that they have worshipped with for 25 years that they would like to continue worshipping with. I'm sure that if you got thrown out of anything because you supported Bush, you'd be on here telling everyone about the great injustice, probably using the same examples.You sir, very much, need tolerance training.
BTW, What would jesus bomb?, is a very good question for all religious people to consider.Especially all of those who were taught and "believe" in the 10 commandments. I don't remember "Thou shall not kill" having any fine print.



Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyman
You can tell if someone is a COMPLETE and UTTER moron simply by 2 bumper stickers?
I could! Amazing isn't it. There were a few other stickers like the college he was attending, a teachers union (weac) sticker, the hair, fart can, bar sticker and a few others that tipped me off to him being from the east side of milwaukee, home of all the liberal nut-jobs that think it is appropriate to cheat and vote multiple times in different polling locations because nobody requires you to show an i.d. I know it is a gift from GOD, but a person can tell alot about a person by the car he drives, the way he dresses, the bumper stickers he adorns the car with, lots of 'tells'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyman
IN FACT, someone who reads that response may think the same of you.
A lot of people think the same of me. That's half the fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyman
Obviously you are having a hard time realising that some of those people started attending that church 25 years ago to worship god,
sorry, that would be GOD
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyman
not to discuss politics,
then why was Kerry preaching and politicing in Church during the election. Oh, he's a liberal so that's OK...typical liberal hypocrite
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyman
and certainly not to be condemmed for exercising their goddamn AMERICAN right to choose a president. They have friends there that they have worshipped with for 25 years that they would like to continue worshipping with. I'm sure that if you got thrown out of anything because you supported Bush, you'd be on here telling everyone about the great injustice, probably using the same examples.You sir, very much, need tolerance training.
Sure, I'd be pissed. Then I would move on with my life. It is a private facility. They can admit and deny whoever they want as members. Who needs an altar and pew to pray. Go pray outside. In your bedroom. Wherever. See, what you Sir don't understand is the more we move towards this touchy feely crap and liberal ideals of the perfect world, the more f'd up were going to become. Keep telling us what to eat, where to sleep, how much money you are going to take away from us. Just don't expect us to take it anymore. I'm sick of it and I'm fighting back. And if that means getting rid of disruptive influences in a place of worship, so be it. Go pray somewhere else. And your last line is the perfect example of a liberal. Practice what you preach.

I just have to laugh at how intolerable the left is. I do this to bring out the point. It is the left that is intolerant. The left that are racist bigots.

Record funding for republicans and conservatives. People are sick of the crap being shoved down our throats. This is OUR Country also. There should be room for everyone.

How bout the a-hole in California that forced a super popular restaurant to shut down because of violations to the Americans with Disabilites Act. The guy never ate dinner there. He is not even from the same town. The place was 80 years old and would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to come into compliance with 'The Law'. So what if a nice neighbor would help the guy get his wheelchair over the curb for his once-in-a-lfetime meal at that establishment. That didn't matter to this guy. The place was shut down and thousands of people had to suffer because of it. And this was one of hundreds of suits the guy has brought against other businesses. The left sucks. Period. I'll stop there.



Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyman
BTW, What would jesus bomb?, is a very good question for all religious people to consider.Especially all of those who were taught and "believe" in the 10 commandments. I don't remember "Thou shall not kill" having any fine print.
The godless in our country leading us to annihilation. Wonderful.



Posted by: crazyman

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterMark
Sure, I'd be pissed. Then I would move on with my life. See, what you Sir don't understand is the more we movev towards this touchy felly crap and liberal ideals of the perfect world, the more f'd up were going to become. Keep telling us what to eat, where to sleep, how much money you are going to take away from us. Just don't expect us to take it anymore. I'm sick of it and I'm fighting back. And if that means getting rid of disruptive influences in a place of worship, so be it. Go pray somewhere else. And your last line is the perfect example of a liberal. Practice what you preach.
First of all, I support very little on either side, I go about my life using things like logic and reason to help me make desicions. I don't look upon a political party, others opinions, or a god. I would not support the idea that anyone needs to tell you what to eat or where to sleep. Just like I don't support the idea of someone being told where to worship because of their political stance. I'm not even going to get into a discussion about how much money the government (Dem. or Rep.)takes from US. As far as being a liberal hypocrite goes, I'm not much for any politician selling his campain at church. Personally, I think, (as I said before), people tend to go to church to worship a god alongside others who worship the same god. I don't think it's right to kick people out of a church for a political belief that doesn't have anything to do with (though politicians may make a connection) a god.
I'll leave you with another liberal last line to go with your first paragraph. "Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself."
I practice what I preach, which is more than I can say for alot of people.



Posted by: crazyman

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterMark
The godless in our country leading us to annihilation. Wonderful.
Could you please clarify this response?



Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyman
I don't think it's right to kick people out of a church for a political belief that doesn't have anything to do with (though politicians may make a connection) a god.
Either do I. It is pretty stupid if you ask me.

My reference was of Kerry (not you) for being a hypocrite and the rest of the left and media for criticizing Bush for wearing 'religion' on his arm at the same time they are in a 'black' church in Florida politicing during the election.

Should those people be allowed to 'pray' with their fellow citizens? Of course they should. But these 'incidents' are necessary to see how far we are being pushed by the left.

Another case in point. Our local university just changed its nickname again. Used to be the Marquette Warriors. 11 years ago it was changed to Golden Eagles. The money from donations and clothing sales dried up so they had to 'revisit' the issue. Everybody expected them to go back to Warriors. As 80% of the school, alumni and fans wanted that. What did the liberal Jesuits and their liberal board of planted trustees do. They went with "GOLD". That's right. GOLD. As in Marquette Gold cigarettes. Pathetic. Their attempt to once again be politically correct blew up in their faces. And their arrogance flew in the face of the majority. Liberal arrogance is destroying the fabric of this country, piece by piece. So when I see things like these guys getting kicked out of church, it only makes me laugh because you reap what you sow.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Oh, and the meaning of Warrior? From Random House...
Warrior(n) 1. A person engaged or experienced in warfare; soldier. 2. A person who shows or has shown great vigor, courage, or aggressiveness, as in politics or athletics.

But Warrior was too upsetting to the 10 American Indians that objected. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Who gives a crap what the other 4,652,828 people in the state thought.



Posted by: mespock

I guess God is also a Packer's Fan!

Also I guess Chubby's would be considered a church as patrons say OMG!



Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:
Originally Posted by mespock
I guess God is also a Packer's Fan! Also I guess Chubby's would be considered a church as patrons say OMG!
I tried to find a pic of the guy that goes to all the Packer's games dressed up as Pope Vince Lombardi. Too bad I couldn't find it. This guy has to be as close to God as one human can get.

I have to agree on the Cubby's thing too. I was there a couple of weeks ago in the Hummer. OMG is pretty close to the sentiment.



Posted by: scott9050

I will say a few things here. First of all I have family in the area including a few who go to that church. Second, the pastor is not the church, he is there to serve the congregation. Third, several of the members kicked out are Veterans who have served in combat, several were Deacons and one has been there for 42 years.
You have a snot nose far right wing Southern Baptist preacher come in and try to intimidate people from voting the way they want to, the right they some have fought for and have under the Constitution. This bastard crossed the line. A lot of people, me included, do not like politics being used in church. It is a topic that does not belong, and trying to kick out members because of their political beliefs is pure and utter bull. I know for a fact that he is being investigated for his actions by the Southern Baptist conference and has been admonished by other pastors in his district.

Another case down there late last year had a Pastor threaten to kill members of his congregation if they voted Democrat. He was promptly removed and criminal charges filed.

I am a registered Republican and have worked in law enforcement, far from being a left wing pussy. My inlaws are Democrats and my father-in-law is a Vietnam Veteran who worked hard for a living before retiring. The ones trying to make the country into a garbage heap are the zealots on both sides of the isle who want to make life miserable for those of us in the middle.



Posted by: scott9050

The scumbag is not even man enough to stick to his guns:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/08/chu....ap/index.html



Posted by: mespock

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott9050
The ones trying to make the country into a garbage heap are the zealots on both sides of the isle who want to make life miserable for those of us in the middle.
You couldn't have said it any better!!!

68% of the population reside in the middle some slightly to the right some slightly to the left and will cross the line when needed! (Oh but according to those too far Left or Right that's waffling ... Get a life that is life)

They don't have a problem with each other. They may have an opinion but can actually see the other side's view!

Scott well put!!!



Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS




This separation of church and state must be worked on from both angles. Politicians and lawmakers need to keep personal religious beliefs at bay when making decisions. And churches need to keep politics out of the church.

WWJD? I don't recall Jesus condeming anyone, ever.



Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
This separation of church and state must be worked on from both angles. Politicians and lawmakers need to keep personal religious beliefs at bay when making decisions. And churches need to keep politics out of the church.
Johnny: I don't recall you condemning Kerry for campaigning in Church. Are you going to do that now? Better late than never. After all, it was the Democrats using this tactic of combining church and state. Hypocrites.



Posted by: mespock

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
WWJD? I don't recall Jesus condeming anyone, ever.
Not until Judgment Day and then the true hypocrites will be put on the line!!

Funny thing is they tend to walk around with WWJD posted on them all the time.

Just remember whom Christ was hanging out with. I don't think it was the self-righteous, and all show off do-gooders who only do good when it's in public, but behind the Scene taking what they can from whomever they can by what ever means they can!



Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterMark
Johnny: I don't recall you condemning Kerry for campaigning in Church. Are you going to do that now? Better late than never. After all, it was the Democrats using this tactic of combining church and state. Hypocrites.
While I think that Kerry's move wasn't very smart for him, IIRC, his speach from the pulpit followed the mass ceremonies, and the congregation was free to leave. More of a campaign speech that just happened to occur at a church. And the dems are certainly not alone in "campaigning" in churches.



Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
While I think that Kerry's move wasn't very smart for him, IIRC, his speach from the pulpit followed the mass ceremonies, and the congregation was free to leave. More of a campaign speech that just happened to occur at a church. And the dems are certainly not alone in "campaigning" in churches.
So I guess you condone it. Consider yourself on the record. Can you imagine the outcry had Bush done this? It is this hypocrisy that is driving people to the right. You guys just don't get it. And I hope you don't. Ever!



Posted by: crazyman

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterMark
So I guess you condone it. Consider yourself on the record. Can you imagine the outcry had Bush done this? It is this hypocrisy that is driving people to the right. You guys just don't get it. And I hope you don't. Ever!
Are you saying that GWB never campained at a church? I find that hard to believe. Half of his campain was catered to the religious.



Posted by: Kbob

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott9050
The scumbag is not even man enough to stick to his guns:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/08/chu....ap/index.html
Did you read the last line of that article? My question: "What is the other side of the story!!??" Were these ousted people doing something inappropriate as well? Or are we just going to overlook that? Don't forget, the pastor didn't kick them out, they were VOTED out by a majority of the congregation. This thing stinks. And I bet the ones voted out reek as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyman
I'll leave you with another liberal last line to go with your first paragraph. "Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself."
I practice what I preach, which is more than I can say for alot of people.
I've seen this misapplied too many times. The rest of that scripture reads, "for with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged. And with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matthew 7:1,2. This means don't be a hypocrite. It doesn't mean we shouldn't judge, otherwise there would be no judges, no law, just anarchy. I think that's what you meant, but I found your blasphemous phrase about people "exercising their AMERICAN right to choose a president" entirely inappropriate to this discussion. Am I demanding an apology? Certainly not since you didn't direct anything personal towards me and this is a free country, so you have the right to say what you want. But if you look at both sides, then do it and quit jumping to conclusions like most people do, if you really aren't a hypocrite.

If there is separation of church and state, then the state should separate themselves from this church. No legal proceedings should apply since that would be hypocritical as well.

One more thing to think about. It's true that Jesus didn't condemn anyone. People condemn themselves. It's their choice. But Jesus did literally throw the money changers out of the temple. And neither were the people voted out of that church condemned.



Posted by: crazyman

I did not JUMP to conclusions. I read the article and formed an opinion based on what I read.I don't have the time to research every article I read on this site. If I read another article that provides additional info, then I may change my mind. Otherwise, I stand by my reaction to what I read. As far as the verse goes, if it's not appropriate for what I was saying, I'm sorry, I imagine you get the point.
I do agree with your comment regarding separation of church and state, if they don't like something that happened in their church, they need to take it up with their church.
I'm also sorry if you were offended by a single word that I used. It's just a word, nothing more.It's used to reflect a degree of hostility. Being that you can't hear my tone, it's necessarry to use words to reflect how I feel. I've never been too worried about people who get all uptight over a single word. It seems like there are better things to worry about.



Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterMark
So I guess you condone it. Consider yourself on the record. Can you imagine the outcry had Bush done this? It is this hypocrisy that is driving people to the right. You guys just don't get it. And I hope you don't. Ever!
OOOoohhhh! I'm "going on the record"!! I'm scared! (WTF does that mean?)

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, typical. I never said that I condone it, I'm just stating the FACT that it was blown out of proportion by the GOD-damn extremist, BuSh ass kissing RIGHT WING MEDIA. An FYI, BuSh DID do the same damn thing, but instead of it making the front page like when Kerry did it, those GOD-DAMN, self-rightous, selfish, anti-american "evangelicals" made a friggin documentary on it called "God in the white house" or something like that. It was aired on LINK TV back in October and showed BuSh sitting on the "stage" in a church talking about how his "religion" influences his political decision making.




Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
OOOoohhhh! I'm "going on the record"!! I'm scared! (WTF does that mean?)
What?! Do you think you were going to be on Fox News "On the Record" with Greta Van Susteren. LOL.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=154141

Disenfrachisement via Kerry...
"Never again will a million African Americans be denied the right to exercise their vote in the United States of America," Kerry promised
Blasphemy by the Rev...
"I see disturbing signs today that some of our churches have been confused by wolves in sheep's clothing," Jackson said.

"November 2, the power is in your hands, hands that once picked cotton," Jackson said. Amen Brother Jackson said Brother Bryan, Amen.

And fear mongering by Brother Sharpton...Added Sharpton: "Everything we have fought for, marched for, gone to jail for some died for could be reversed if the wrong people are put on the Supreme Court."

All 3 days before the election. See, I can see the differences in Bush talking about how God changed his life for the better and these clowns using every threat and scare tactic in the book to hold on to power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
BuSh ass kissing RIGHT WING MEDIA.
Thank God we finally have one after 50 years of listening to the likes of Dan Rather and Walter Cronkite. Amen Brother, Amen.



Posted by: Kbob

So much for respecting peoples' religious beliefs. How typically hypocritical of the self-righteous, regardless of their beliefs. Johnny, you have just showed yourself to be one of the biggest a$$es (used for emphASSis) I know. As I stated, I wasn't wanting an apology as I wasn't offended. But you're just shooting yourself and your opinions in the foot. You want to reach across the aisle, be it Republican or Democrat, Christian or not? Then prove it.

As far as jumping to conclusions, I don't want to beat a dead horse. BUT, you listen to one side of the argument and form a knee-jerk opinion, that, my friend, is JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS. My statement about the word was for the benefit of you, crazyman, and on behalf of those that read this forum and are true believers in God. Or was the point to blatantly offend and run them off? I know that's not why you did crazyman, but Johnny certainly did. Which sickens me because it's basically the same thing he's cursing against. You want to talk about religion? Then do it in a way that will include the religious. It's like posting a picture of a bikini babe in church. Just because you have the ability and the legality to do so, doesn't make it right. And the sad thing? He's so blindly self-righteous that not only will he NOT feel any misgivings for his actions, he's going to up the ante.



Posted by: crazyman

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've come to no conclusion. I made a statement based on what I was given to read. Nothing is set in stone. In fact, I would be real intrested in hearing the whole story, and it's very likely that my opinion would change. In all reality, I'm far more intrested in Bryan's ability to turn everything into an attack on liberals than I am these people and their church. I still say that people shouldn't be kicked out of church for their political stance, but, (back to the dead horse), there probably is more to this story.



Posted by: Kbob

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyman
In all reality, I'm far more intrested in Bryan's ability to turn everything into an attack on liberals than I am these people and their church. I still say that people shouldn't be kicked out of church for their political stance, but, (back to the dead horse), there probably is more to the story.
Bryan is quite able, isn't he? LOL!! His charm is the biggest reason this forum is popular. I know he's enlightened and entertained me on countless occasions.

And I agree with your opinion that people should not be kicked out of a church for their political stance only. It may be that the young pastor of that church was just throwing his weight around and those people decided to fight back and it created a stir which eventually led to their ouster.



Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbob
So much for respecting peoples' religious beliefs. How typically hypocritical of the self-righteous, regardless of their beliefs. Johnny, you have just showed yourself to be one of the biggest a$$es (used for emphASSis) I know. As I stated, I wasn't wanting an apology as I wasn't offended. But you're just shooting yourself and your opinions in the foot. You want to reach across the aisle, be it Republican or Democrat, Christian or not? Then prove it.
Got your attention, eh? Why then the silence from you when Bryan and others (pissin' buford comes to mind, as does others) goes off on the same type of rampage on "liberals" and those NOT of the "extreme right-wing, BuSh-ass-kissin' persuasion"?? I thought you claimed to be "in the middle". Thanks for disproving that myth, Mr. "unbiased".



Posted by: Kbob

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
Got your attention, eh? Why then the silence from you when Bryan and others (pissin' buford comes to mind, as does others) goes off on the same type of rampage on "liberals" and those NOT of the "extreme right-wing, BuSh-ass-kissin' persuasion"?? I thought you claimed to be "in the middle". Thanks for disproving that myth, Mr. "unbiased".
Did they target me or what I said in particular? No they did not. You did, however, so quit trying to justify yourself. You're smarter than that. You've seen me let lots of rantings from the left go without a fight. This is an issue that I happen to care about, hence my responses. As far as Bryan goes, he doesn't mean it personally. Surely you've figured that out by now. He's speaking ideologically. And he always has you and others to call his bluff when he goes on those rampages. He's been called more names than I care to think about, yet he's still smiling and jabbing. And most others on the "extreme right-wing, BuSh-ass-kissin' persuasion" are silenced fast enough by you and your comrades. I've always leaned toward the conservative side. That's no secret. I did almost respond when buford was saying something about kicking your rear in another thread, believe it or not. I chose not to until you responded first, and you didn't let me down. You made your point well enough that he changed his tune. You didn't need me to jump on the bandwagon, you were doing fine by yourself. (EDIT: You should have let it go one response sooner in that thread as you had the upper hand, but that's just my opinion.)



Posted by: barry2952

Kbob,

I have a question for you. You and I actually agree on many more items than you may think yet you egg me on and you've done your share of name calling yourself, albeit slightly more subtly.

My question is; why is it that you assume that I am a Liberal? I have voted Libertarian (waste of a vote, IMHO) and the other elections I've voted Republican. Can't I hate George Walker Bush and still be a Conservative?

Isn't this a parrallel to the Church expulsions, that you claim to be against? I would agree that GWB is probably a better person to lead this country in times of war (which he started) but my vote for Kerry was simply a vote against GWB.

The last time I saw my father-in-law was during the election. I criticized GWB and he said "YOU GOD-DAMNED LIBERAL DEMOCRATS ARE ALL THE SAME". That is the last time I spoke to him. He didn't know my politics yet he assumed that because I was critical of the war in Iraq that my opinion was wrong and that by my statement I had to be Liberal. Is that what you guys on the right of middle think that we are "GOD-DAMNED" because we don't agree with this war and the reasons we went.

I have to tell you that I got behind GWB because I believed that there were WMD and that Saddam was sponsoring terrorism, specifically 9/11. GWB may have been duped by the intellegence community but we are paying him not to be duped. He should have accepted responsibility for his mistake and we could have gone forward as a nation. Many people think that GWB fabricated the reasons for war and now that they have been disproven it's all being washed under by telling us that our true motives were to free the Iraqi people.



Posted by: Kbob

Barry2952,

My estimation of your political stance is pretty much how you described yourself. So I'm a little puzzled at your post directed towards me. Being voted out for purely political reasons in a church is wrong. That is my stance. My opinion about this particular incident is that there is more to the story than what the ousted members are telling us. It's like a divorce. You listen to one side only, and you tend to hate the other side. But you listen to both sides and you realize that they both were wrong in their own ways. I hate to say it, but that's experience talking. I've been in church for about 18 years now and I've seen my share of disputes. Most were simple misunderstandings that were blown way out of proportion. Used to be that new churches were started as missions by more established churches. Now, new churches are started as a result of a split in another church because people in general are too proud to admit when they're wrong. Which is due in part to our society that encourages individual freedoms (which is good) but discourages humility and temperance.

I'm sorry about your father-in-law. But I'm not him. I've discussed politics with family that didn't go well either. But they were the ones that started the conversation and they were the ones that lost their cool, not me. And trust me, there are 3 curse words that I don't use. You get me mad enough in person and I'll let you have just about all the others, so I'm no saint.

I'm sure GWB isn't telling everything, no politician does. But I can't expect him to ignore all the intelligence that is given to him and with godlike discernment know that it's wrong. That may be a good enough reason to hate him for you, but not for me. You have every right to believe that, just like I have every right not to. You take a pot shot insult at someone or something for no other reason than hatred or dislike and there will be times when I respond to them. That's you and that's me.



Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbob
Did they target me or what I said in particular? No they did not. You did, however, so quit trying to justify yourself.
My post was in response to Bryan and his rant that started on pg1 of this thread, NOT anything YOU posted. Next time, don't step into the crossfire. But now you have a taste of how stupid some of the crap that flows from Bryan's keyboard sounds...... from a perspective near the middle.

BTW, I actually agree w/ you that lawyers should not get involved in this matter. I saw one of the guys that got voted out last night on TV w/ his lawyer, hoping to eventually hear "the other side of the story", but was disappointed in hearing only the one side we've already heard.



Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbob
I'm sure GWB isn't telling everything, no politician does. But I can't expect him to ignore all the intelligence that is given to him and with godlike discernment know that it's wrong. That may be a good enough reason to hate him for you, but not for me. You have every right to believe that, just like I have every right not to. You take a pot shot insult at someone or something for no other reason than hatred or dislike and there will be times when I respond to them. That's you and that's me.
If that is where the facts stopped, GW's getting "duped" might be forgivable. The fact that GW had designs on Saddam BEFORE 9/11 makes it UN-forgivable IMO.



Posted by: Kbob

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
My post was in response to Bryan and his rant that started on pg1 of this thread, NOT anything YOU posted. Next time, don't step into the crossfire. But now you have a taste of how stupid some of the crap that flows from Bryan's keyboard sounds...... from a perspective near the middle.
Give me a break, you're about as innocent as Michael Jackson. Why else did you emphasize GD if not to offend with your personal liberty of typing that word? It's getting deep around here, that's for sure. I'm glad I wore boots today.



Posted by: Kbob

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
If that is where the facts stopped, GW's getting "duped" might be forgivable. The fact that GW had designs on Saddam BEFORE 9/11 makes it UN-forgivable IMO.
Broken record, scratch, broken record . . . .

EDIT: FDR had designs on Hitler before Pearl Harbor as well, does that make it wrong in and of itself? (rhetorical question Johnny, so don't bother answering it unless you want to fill the room with more of your crap)



Posted by: MonsterMark

McDonalds jingle playing...

I'm loving it!

Golf was great. I'm burnt to a crisp. Just checked in and see some serious reflecting going on. The post from Barry almost made me... well, ... almost made me.

After the buzz wears off, I'll get into it.

Btw, last putt on 18 was a 25 footer off the fringe and the anal retentives I was playing with couldn't even say 'Nice Shot'.



Posted by: scott9050

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbob
Did you read the last line of that article? My question: "What is the other side of the story!!??" Were these ousted people doing something inappropriate as well? Or are we just going to overlook that? Don't forget, the pastor didn't kick them out, they were VOTED out by a majority of the congregation.
Wrong, they were voted out by a few including the pastor. The church has 100 members, 40 have left in protest of the 9 that were voted out. One was a Republican. The ones made to leave had told the pastor that they did not want politics in the Church. The IRS is currently investigating.

Quote:
By Andre A. Rodriguez
STAFF WRITER
published: May 9, 2005 2:15 pm

WAYNESVILLE – The turmoil embroiling East Waynesville Baptist Church and Pastor Chan Chandler is drawing national attention from religious and political groups.

Last October Chandler told those in his congregation “the question then comes in the Baptist Church how do I vote, let me just say this right now if you vote for John Kerry this year you need to repent or resign. You have been holding back God's church way too long. And I know I may get in trouble for saying that, but just pour it on.”

Nine members of East Waynesville say they had their membership revoked last week and 40 others left in protest after tension over political views came to a head, church members say. “Our memberships were terminated because we did not agree to have a political church,” said Thelma Lowe, the lone Republican voted out. “I did not vote for Kerry.”

One of the first to speak out was Ralph G. Neas, president of the liberal People For the American Way Foundation.

“What have we come to when the doors of a church are closed to longtime members because of their political beliefs?” he said. “This nation was founded on respect for religious belief, and tolerance for religious diversity. Men and women of faith have every right to advocate for their political beliefs. While churches, of course, can set their own membership standards, no one should punish people of faith for their political beliefs.”

The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said religious right groups have been pressing evangelical churches to get deeply involved in partisan politics and this kind of controversy is the natural outcome.

“This is an outrage,” he said. “Houses of worship exist to bring people together for worship, not split them apart over partisan politics. I think there is an important lesson here for the whole country,” Lynn continued. “Americans do not expect to be ordered to vote for certain candidates by their religious leaders.”

Closer to home, Jim Royston, executive director and treasurer of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, called the action “highly irregular” in a statement on the convention’s Web site. East Waynesville is a member of the convention and contributes financially to the organization’s mission efforts. The convention has no roll in decision making at local churches.

George Bullard, the convention’s second in command, said if a church’s bylaws allow for a pastor to establish who can be members, he has every right to exclude some.

“Membership is a local church issue,” he said. “It is not something the state convention would enter into.”

Royston did say that a position as the one Chandler is reported to have taken could threaten a church’s tax-exempt status because it could be interpreted as stepping into political advocacy, an action prohibited by Internal Revenue Service rules.

On Sunday, the pastor released a written statement through his attorney, John J. Pavey Jr., following Sunday’s worship service that read, “The goal of East Waynesville Baptist Church is to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world.

“This church fellowships openly with all who embrace the authority and application of the Bible regardless of political affiliation, including current members who align themselves with both major political parties, as well as those who affiliate with no political party.

“No one has ever been voted from the membership of this church due to an individual’s support or lack of support for a political party or candidate.

“All matters of the church are internal in nature and are resolved accordingly.”

Chandler also announced there would be a business meeting Tuesday night, which will be open to all church members, “including anyone who was at Monday’s meeting.” He did not specify what the meeting would be about, but members speculate it is an attempt to calm the situation.

The estranged members said they were unsure whether they would be at the meeting until they met with their attorney.
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pb.../50509008/1001



Posted by: scott9050

Looks like it is over, the pastor resigned:

Waynesville church pastor at center of controversy over pulpit politics resigns



WAYNESVILLE - The pastor at the center of a storm of controversy over his preaching of politics from his pulpit resigned tonight.

Just a few minutes after an East Waynesville Baptist Church business meeting began, Pastor Chan Chandler and his wife left the meeting without comment. Later, the pastor's lawyer said Chandler decided it was best for the church that he leave. Attorney John Pavey said Chandler would pursue other opportunities and continue working on his master's degree.

A large group of Chandler's supporters also departed the meeting. Misty Turner said she would no longer attend the church because she couldn't support it any longer.

"We were not a cult. We never bowed down before Chan Chandler," Turner said.

Last week, nine long-time members of the church said they were kicked out because they disagreed with Chandler's use of the pulpit to push politics. During a sermon last October, Chandler, 33, told the congregants they should repent or resign if they planned to vote for John Kerry in November’s presidential election, according to 30-year church member Selma Morris said.

The turmoil embroiling the Southern Baptist church has drawn national attention from political watchdog organizations, as well as the national media.



Posted by: Kbob

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott9050
Wrong, they were voted out by a few including the pastor. The church has 100 members, 40 have left in protest of the 9 that were voted out. One was a Republican. The ones made to leave had told the pastor that they did not want politics in the Church. The IRS is currently investigating.
Were these "long time members" active at all? Or were they just members in name only, basically only coming to church on Easter Sunday? I'm not saying people that do this are wrong, but membership numbers in churches are deceiving due to inactive members who no longer go to church. Methinks you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to how some churches work. You have a core of people that do most of the work and try to run things as best they can. These are the ones that go to church on Sunday mornings, Sunday evenings, and Wednesday evenings because they love God and church.

This is just more of the same. We still haven't heard the other side of the story. But it seems that the inevitable resignation has occurred. The national negative media attention assured that pastors fate. This pastor did not have to resign. He had the support of most of his members. They are the ones that pay his salary. His job was secure. But he did resign. Why? I have no doubt he said what was claimed, but he retracted it, probably several times. But the ball was set in motion and the crowd cried "crucify him". And instead of staying put, that pastor decided to resign. Because he was right about the goal of his church. And there was now too much that got in the way of the goal of that church. So true to that goal, he resigned. If his goal was really about him and being in charge or whatever, he would not have resigned.



Posted by: FreeFaller

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
An FYI, BuSh DID do the same damn thing, but instead of it making the front page like when Kerry did it, those GOD-DAMN, self-rightous, selfish, anti-american "evangelicals" made a friggin documentary on it called "God in the white house" or something like that. It was aired on LINK TV back in October and showed BuSh sitting on the "stage" in a church talking about how his "religion" influences his political decision making.
You think this is something President Bush started...read the D of I

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I hate to break it to you Jonny but religion and God have been an integral part of this country and it's people since the beginning. I certainly hope that my President uses a sound basis of judgment like Christianity to assist in his decision making process. It's certainly a better voice to have in your head than P. Diddy or Jeanine Garafolo like alot of libbies. Your hatred of those with faith does not represent even five percent of the US population. Oh and these so called "america hating" evangelicals were not the ones burning the American flag during protests back in 03 it was america hating liberals...

Oh and before you go and call me just another "Right wing jesus freak nutjob"...save your breath...I'm an atheist. But I don't hate people of faith nor do I think their beliefs are stupid. I respect people of all faiths and non faiths and their beliefs...and their political stance...as long as it's not ignorant.



Posted by: Kbob

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeFaller
I respect people of all faiths and non faiths and their beliefs...and their political stance...as long as it's not ignorant.
DOH! I was so close.



Posted by: FreeFaller

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbob
DOH! I was so close.
heh heh



Posted by: mespock

The Rev. Chan Chandler, 33, walked out of the church he had led for three years Tuesday night after delivering a brief statement of resignation. With him went many of the young congregants he had attracted to the modest brick church on the outskirts of this small mountain town in western North Carolina.

Boy does this guy have it wrong!
"For me to remain now would only cause more hurt for me and my family," Chandler said. "I am resigning with gratitude in my heart for all of you, particularly those of you who love me and my family."

As a pastor you give your self to God and the Church - The hurt done is to the church not his family. His failure to do his job hurt his family!!



Posted by: Kbob

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/10/church.politics.ap/

So it was really about abortion, huh? That's a whole 'nother mess then. Sounds like he kept hammering that message and some people didn't want him preaching against it and got sick of it. Then they used his one comment against Kerry and resigning and what not to the fullest. Rejoice if you want, but there were no winners here today.

EDIT: I believe his responsibility to his family comes before his church.



Posted by: mespock

The dispute that engulfed East Waynesville Baptist Church in recent months would have sounded familiar to many an American congregation: Aging congregation brings in dynamic young preacher to turn things around. New pastor attracts young members who push for change in traditional ways of doing things. Battle ensues.

As Chandler and his wife drove out of the church's parking lot followed by a police escort, about 40 of his supporters walked out as well, with many saying they were resigning their memberships.

"I'm not going to serve with the ungodly," an angry Misty Turner declared.

But Maxine Osborne, 70, and among those who stayed behind, had a different view of what had transpired.

"A lot of these young people had not been in the church more than a year," she said. The Chandlers "brought in a lot of young people, but they also brainwashed them."

Members said the troubles had been simmering since last fall, when Chandler endorsed Bush and denounced Kerry from the pulpit — saying those who planned to vote for the Democrat should "repent or resign."

Tensions escalated last week, when several members said Chandler called a meeting of the church's board of deacons and declared his intention for East Waynesville to become a politically active church.

Anyone who did not like that direction was free to leave, Chandler said — a statement that caused nine members to walk out.

Many of those who opposed Chandler's leadership said they agreed with the pastor's positions on abortion and other hot-button religious topics, but disliked linking those beliefs to specific political positions and candidates.

"If we wanted politics, we would stay home and watch it 24 hours a day on TV," said Charles Gaddy, 70. "I like Chan. He can preach a good sermon. I just wish he would keep some things out of the church."

Frank Lowe, 73, a leader of the members who left the church in opposition to Chandler's leadership, said, "I think his duty was to preach God's word and let the people sort out what they want to do."

Chandler supporter Rhonda Trantham, 27, saw no problem with Chandler's approach. "If it's in the Bible, I believe it should be preached," she said.

Norman Jameson of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina said the convention — which generally allows its congregations free rein to conduct their business — will try to help Chandler find a new church position if he so desires.

"There was evidently a politicization of pulpit in that the pastor is passionate and he interprets that one political party had a stronger stance on abortion than the other," Jameson said. "Passion makes things happen. In a church leadership role, it can also divide people."

Speaking to those who remained after Chandler's departure, Lowe acknowledged the pain on both sides of the schism. "This is a sad hour in this group's life. This is a sad hour in the other group's life," he said.

But he was firm in his opposition to Chandler.

"A person that will take abuse and not stand up for what's right is not worth their salt," he declared.

Out in the parking lot, as she got into her truck, Trantham was equally adamant.

"God will always fix things in the end," she said.



Posted by: Kbob

Quote:
Originally Posted by mespock
"A person that will take abuse and not stand up for what's right is not worth their salt," he declared.
That's what the world says. I saw this question earlier in this thread: WWJD?

Your post just further proves that there were no winners. And it didn't say anything about those that opposed abortion and their views. I'm sure that would have been too militantly left-wing and would have cast a bad light and would have slowed the process.



Posted by: Kbob

Quote:
Originally Posted by mespock
Anyone who did not like that direction was free to leave, Chandler said — a statement that caused nine members to walk out.
So is this saying that the members were not voted out, but chose to leave and took this thing to the media and liberal watchdog groups?



Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbob
So is this saying that the members were not voted out, but chose to leave and took this thing to the media and liberal watchdog groups?
Oh, could that be! They must have been disenfranchised church-goers. Somebody call Jesse. Wait, these were white folks. Never Mind.



Posted by: mespock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbob
That's what the world says. I saw this question earlier in this thread: WWJD?

Your post just further proves that there were no winners. And it didn't say anything about those that opposed abortion and their views. I'm sure that would have been too militantly left-wing and would have cast a bad light and would have slowed the process.
Hey I just posted that the bum left his post! What the "Liberal Internet Posted" Wasn't my words... But you are free to have a conservative opinion! This is still America! Land of the Free Home of the Brave!

Like him or not he's that guys is out! Maybe he can get a job on the 700 club!



Posted by: Kbob

Quote:
Originally Posted by mespock
Like him or not he's that guys is out! Maybe he can get a job on the 700 club!
And maybe those church members that remain will get a pastor they deserve. One that will tickle their ears instead of stepping on their toes.



Posted by: MonsterMark

Rich, you didn't tell us about your 'other' job.

Condoms Given To Middle-Schoolers At School Health Fair



POSTED: 8:54 am EDT May 11, 2005


WAUSAU, Wis. -- Some Wisconsin middle-school students got to take home souvenirs from a health fair -- condoms.


An AIDS education group was handing out the prophylactics at the health fair organized by North Central Health Care in Wausau. The idea was to educate the middle-schoolers on the dangers of alcohol and drugs.


No doubt 12 year old boys need to be 'packing'. You never know when they might get the chance to 'lay some wood' to a nice, hot 11 year old. Am I sure there was an adult there to show them how to put it on ~correctly~!

Sick freak'n people. Keep up the good work lefties.

The Far Left...Stealing from our American youth their innocence. Daily.



Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeFaller
You think this is something President Bush started...read the D of I

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I hate to break it to you Jonny but religion and God have been an integral part of this country and it's people since the beginning. I certainly hope that my President uses a sound basis of judgment like Christianity to assist in his decision making process. It's certainly a better voice to have in your head than P. Diddy or Jeanine Garafolo like alot of libbies. Your hatred of those with faith does not represent even five percent of the US population. Oh and these so called "america hating" evangelicals were not the ones burning the American flag during protests back in 03 it was america hating liberals...

Oh and before you go and call me just another "Right wing jesus freak nutjob"...save your breath...I'm an atheist. But I don't hate people of faith nor do I think their beliefs are stupid. I respect people of all faiths and non faiths and their beliefs...and their political stance...as long as it's not ignorant.


Where did I even imply that I thought GW started this "God has been an integral part of this country and it's people since the beginning" stuff? Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I don't give GW credit for squat except 1600+ American service men and women's deaths and 100,000+ Iraqi civilians' deaths.

If you are going to jump into the crossfire, at least read all of the posts exchanging between those involved (heavily paraphrased):

My 1st post: "Separation of church and state must be worked at from both angles......"

MM's reply: "YOU FRIGGIN HYPOCRITE, YOU DIDN'T CONDEMN KERRY WHEN HE .... blah blah blah."

My 2nd post: "What Kerry did wasn't smart, but it twasn't much, no worse than what any GOP campaigner has done......."

MM's reply: "So you CONDONE IT? I GOT YOU NOW M/F, YOU'RE GOIN' ON RECORD!!"

My 3rd post: "BFD. @#$%$#^YRE^$%^ and your %$#%^$YE too"

Then there was some noise from Kbob, whatever.

Now you decide to throw your 2 sideways cents into the pot. So I'll seize this opportunity to elaborate on what the D of I says (highlighted for emphasis):

Quote:
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
My break-down: No matter where you come from, or what you believe in, or what god you pray to, or what morals you hold dear, the ONE thing that we can all agree on is that our Creator (God or Allah or the big-bang or mom & dad or who ever) has given us ALL the basic common human rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And while we shall make no attempt to get everyone to agree on every thing that our individual "gods" teach us (which would be totally IMPOSSIBLE and is contrary to this freedom thing), we must respect each others's unique beliefs, and not allow our own beliefs to infringe on others. In order to accomplish that, we must separate our religious beliefs (which are unique to the thousands of religions in this country) from the laws of this country which are designed to protect EVERY individual's unalienable rights, regardless of their religious affiliation.

Which brings me back to my original post. This is a two-way street. Keep the church out of politics, and keep politics out of church. Anything else would be anti-American and flies in the face of the D of I. I respect ALL people of faith, but I have no use for anti-Americans.



Posted by: MonsterMark

MM's reply: "YOU FRIGGIN HYPOCRITE, YOU DIDN'T CONDEMN KERRY WHEN HE .... blah blah blah."

MM's reply: "So you CONDONE IT? I GOT YOU NOW M/F, YOU'RE GOIN' ON RECORD

I don't know about you guys but I like my comments coming from Johnny better. They are much more colorful. I think I will send my comments to him first in the future so he can spice them up a bit.

See, I would agree about the whole ~keep politics out of the church~ thing but you know damn well that the Dummocrats have figured out they NEED to 'play' to the religious right to get back into the game so expect them all to don robes and start walking around with incense. Like I've said a thousand times ~ hypocrites.



Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Sick freak'n people. Keep up the good work lefties.
Arming kids with information that might save their LIVES because their PARENTS are too lame to do it themselves is SICK? What is SICK is oppressing vital health information or filling the kids heads with lies like what most of the right-wing nut jobs are doing.

[/endthreadjack]



Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
Arming kids with information that might save their LIVES because their PARENTS are too lame to do it themselves is SICK? What is SICK is oppressing vital health information or filling the kids heads with lies like what most of the right-wing nut jobs are doing.

[/endthreadjack]
[rant-on]endthreadjack...No. This is a church thread and has good views. You might think it is OK to teach kids how to bitch-slap and f them whores but I prefer my kids at that age learn about Jesus and being good citizens. This coming from a father of 4 young boys. I figured I'd get that response from you. Maybe you'll have a daughter some day that will get pregnant at the age of 10. Oh that's right. She won't get pregnant because her boyfriend will have condoms and she'll have the morning after pill. [/rant-off]

Last thought... You know, if we have to worry about 12 year old kids with STD's and the need to protect their lives via giving them 'vital' health information, we're already up the xxxx creek without a paddle.

OK, back to the disenfranchised Kerry whiners, oops, I mean, supporters.



Posted by: mespock

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterMark
Rich, you didn't tell us about your 'other' job.

Condoms Given To Middle-Schoolers At School Health Fair[/color]
Hey someone has to do it! Got to make sure you (Bryan) are safe from STDs



Posted by: Kbob

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
Then there was some noise from Kbob, whatever.
I'll take that as a compliment.

For the record, I don't think you hate me because of my faith.



Posted by: barry2952

LEONARD PITTS JR.: A lesson in religious intolerance


May 13, 2005





BY LEONARD PITTS JR.



Consider Christianity.


It is a faith broad enough to encompass everything from a pope in Rome to a missionary in South America. Apparently, however, it is not broad enough to encompass a Democrat in North Carolina.


That, at least, is the inference to be gleaned from the experience of nine people who say they were kicked out of their church last week because they voted for John Kerry in the 2004 election. The nine former members of East Waynesville Baptist say the Rev. Chan Chandler led the drive to oust them. The resulting uproar has made headlines nationwide and drawn harsh criticism, even from other clergy. Chandler initially denied the accusations and called the flap a "misunderstanding."


'Repent or resign'

The claim is undercut by his own words. This week, ABC News played an audiotape of an October sermon in which the preacher said: "If you vote for John Kerry this year, you need to repent or resign. You have been holding back God's church way too long."


Chandler stepped down a few days ago.


For the record, it was the senator's stand on abortion that got the preacher's dander up. Kerry supports a woman's right to choose. The senator explained during the campaign that though he is a Catholic and though the Catholic church opposes abortion, "What is an article of faith for me is not something that I can legislate on somebody who doesn't share that article of faith." In other words, Kerry believed it necessary to separate his religious views from his obligations as a legislator.


Remember 1960?

That's a separation we once regarded as necessary to the functioning of a pluralistic society, but it's not one many religious conservatives feel compelled to make these days. It's telling that when another Catholic ran for president 45 years ago -- a fellow named Kennedy -- he was required to assure anxious voters that he would not allow personal faith to dictate public policy.


How times change.


Some have said the moral here is that preachers should concentrate on saving souls and leave politics out of the pulpit. I disagree. Certainly, preachers should not lend their moral authority to political parties or candidates, or make churches into campaign headquarters. But it's a fallacy to believe social and political issues should never be discussed inside church walls. Had that been the case, there could never have been a civil rights movement.


So what galls me about the Rev. Chandler's behavior is not that he talked politics per se, but that he assumes belief in God and belief in George W. Bush to be synonymous. As one who believes in a God who is above party, I find that assumption offensive.


If you grew up, as I did, in an era when Christian meant, among other things, long-haired kids with denim-covered Bibles, you have to marvel that it has become the exclusive property of those who believe in big business and tax cuts.


Frankly, what Chandler did makes no sense, even if you buy his reasoning. I mean, assuming people who voted for Kerry are at odds with Christian faith, what better place for such errant people to be than in a church? As a wise person once said: A church is not a museum for saints; it is a hospital for sinners.


But too often these days, it seems to be neither, seems to be little more than a refuge for human meanness, pettiness, partisanship and smug self-satisfaction.


One is embarrassed to have to remind such people of what ought to be patently obvious:


God is not a Republican.


LEONARD PITTS JR. appears most Wednesdays and Fridays in the Free Press. Reach him at the Miami Herald, 1 Herald Plaza, Miami, FL 33132; at 888-251-4407 or at lpitts@herald.com.



Posted by: pepperman

It's good that the Rev. chandler steped down.



Posted by: Kbob

"Sir my concern is not whether God is on our side. My great concern is to be on God's side." Abraham Lincoln





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