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champion plugs?

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Posted by: Blackjack

Hi guys, someone gave me a set of champion plugs 3013. I am getting ready to install them and change my wires and wanted feedback.

The plugs are the cheapest part, so i'm not looking to skimp. I'm a daily driver and kick it down every once in a while. i'm not going to the track. I'm looking for decent performance, good gas mileage and longevity. Any opinions would be appreciated. These plugs any good or would you recommend something else?

p.s. would you guys go with the stock gap?
93 mark8
thanks

Posted by: unstoppable

I would get the motorcraft awsf 22c plug.
Champion is crap in my opinion.

Gap them at about 50

Posted by: justcauz

A funny thing about Champion spark plugs, Champion manufactures spark plugs for just about every one out there. they manufacture just about all of AC's plugs infact the AC stands for non other then Arnald Champion. Champion makes plugs for NGK as well and I could be wrong but I think Accel also has some plugs by Champion.
Edelbrock has joined with Champion because they feel they supply the correct and best performing spark plugs for all applications.
I know Champion sold some crap for years but they are past that all and now produce some of the best plugs and wires around
I also understand Champion produces Volvos plug wires.

Posted by: Joeychgo

I would recommend autolite 764's gapped to .48 --- assuming you want decent performance --

Posted by: LSC SS

I've had just about every plug known to man in my Mark VII's.
Autolites seem to give me the best results. Even better than the high dollar ones like Splitfire and Bosch Platinums

Posted by: MonsterMark

I concur on the Autolite's. Heck for a buck at Walmart, you can't do wrong. You can afford to change them every month just for something to do,

like drink beer and stare at your engine.

Posted by: unstoppable

Heres the low down on the colder plugs I suggested.
Our cars use a knock sensor that picks up spark knock(detonation)
They have them becasue they are pone to detonate.The reason I use the colder plugs is because when the sensor detects knock it retards the timing to not hurt the engine.
Well when it pulls back timing it effectively pulls out power.So when you have a colder plug you have less of a chance to run into the knock sensors and keep your timing and power where they belong.
I have personally seen 7-10 RWHP on a dyno by simply switching from new factory heat range plugs to a colder plug.

I get the AWSFA-12C plugs which are 2 heat ranges colder for 1.67 a plug

Posted by: Joeychgo

I didnt know that Chris -- cool -- maybe ill switch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by unstoppable

Heres the low down on the colder plugs I suggested.
Our cars use a knock sensor that picks up spark knock(detonation)
They have them becasue they are pone to detonate.The reason I use the colder plugs is because when the sensor detects knock it retards the timing to not hurt the engine.
Well when it pulls back timing it effectively pulls out power.So when you have a colder plug you have less of a chance to run into the knock sensors and keep your timing and power where they belong.
I have personally seen 7-10 RWHP on a dyno by simply switching from new factory heat range plugs to a colder plug.

I get the AWSFA-12C plugs which are 2 heat ranges colder for 1.67 a plug

Posted by: LXRY YOT

Motorcrafts...go with originals.

Posted by: JSev22

I put in what geno told me and gaped them to his spec.....where's he with his opinion?

Posted by: driller

My understanding is the Autolite 764 is one step colder than stock AWSF-32s.

Having said that, now the choice is not only heat range but material also. A lot of people shun copper plugs, wanting platinums, silver or iridiums for the pizzazz factor. IMHO copper is the best performance and most certainly the least costly. Being this economical, fresh new plugs beat old exotic plugs any day of the week.

Anyone else do this?

Notice the top plug's electrode compared to the standard one at the bottom. I gapped these Autolite copper plugs at 0.048". Then I filed back the electrode and then radiused the end of the electrode. This is done to improve spark exposure and flame front for better and more complete combustion. Some call it the nitrous mod.

Posted by: MonsterMark

If anybody gets some dyno time, that would be a great experiment. Start with the stock plugs, then go 1 degree colder with the autolites and then 2 degrees colder with the AWSFA-12C Plugs as recommended by Chris. Seems like alot of guys making more than stock power take the 2 step colder approach. There has to be something to it. I personally would love to see the dyno numbers.

Posted by: driller

I believe I have seen dyno sheets from 'stangs showing the added power of a colder plug. As well as numbers on the nitrous plug mod. I used to have 'em in my 'favorites' list, but alas that was a computer crash or two ago.

Posted by: JSev22

Quote:

Originally Posted by driller

Anyone else do this?

Notice the top plug's electrode compared to the standard one at the bottom. I gapped these Autolite copper plugs at 0.048". Then I filed back the electrode and then radiused the end of the electrode. This is done to improve spark exposure and flame front for better and more complete combustion. Some call it the nitrous mod.

yes, I did this for my 89 LSC. It is supposed to help with low end torque....dyno test i saw gained over 20 lb/ft below 2500 rpm

Posted by: BRIAN O'KEEFE

Will this work on older model Lincoln engines such as the 460 and 462-although the newly rebuilt 462 in one of my '67's has enough torque to smoke the tires in second gear-passes everything but a gas station-lucky I own an oilfield in Wyoming!

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRIAN O'KEEFE

Will this work on older model Lincoln engines such as the 460 and 462-although the newly rebuilt 462 in one of my '67's has enough torque to smoke the tires in second gear-passes everything but a gas station-lucky I own an oilfield in Wyoming!

Sure it will work. I remember it from years back(I'm talkin' 70's), long before platinums, iridiums, split-fires...

Posted by: JSev22

See!

Posted by: unstoppable

Autolite 764s are stock heat range.

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by unstoppable

Autolite 764s are stock heat range.

The 4 in 764 denotes 1 step colder than midrange(5).

http://www.autolite.com/tech/SparkPl...ringSystem.pdf

Check 'number 8' out on this page:

http://www.autolite.com/tech/SparkPlugTypes.pdf

Apparently, these are available retail??

Posted by: Joeychgo

THis is a great thread!

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

I wouldn't put Champion's in my Lawn mower.

Bryan, how do you think I came to the conclusion that the 764's worked best?

Posted by: purelux

The knock sensors enable a more agressive timing. The main use of the ks is to allow the engine to operate safely without knock if you run regular gas not the premium (91+) recommended on the inside of your gas filler door and manual. Or as the engine builds up contaminets over time or lower quality gas or hot weather etc.. Using lower temp plugs and thermostat without a chip programmed for it if it stops knock is simply hiding a problem. Like taking nyquil doesn't actually cure a cold it hides the symtoms. the colder an engine runs the less efficently it operates. Colder plugs are mainly for using a colder themostat say 180 so the plugs operate more effictivly at that colder range. Used alone they shouldn't be necessary. p.s. the 98 cv for example doesn't have the ks and so makes a bit less power and recommends only 87. 7-10 rwhp would be almost 30-40 crank. That is hard to believe comparing new plugs which don't have a problem with them and are gapped the same and changing nothing else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by unstoppable

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONEBADMK8

I wouldn't put Champion's in my Lawn mower.

Bryan, how do you think I came to the conclusion that the 764's worked best?

Raises hand. Would that be trial and error, sir?

Posted by: Pepsi2185

How delicate is the work to file down the plugs?

Just use regular files, or sandpaper. Sorry im new to performance i usually keep to electrical.

Big Joe

Posted by: MonsterMark

Yep, file and sandpaper till you get a nice rounded edge similar to the one pictured a few posts back. Pretty easy to do.

Posted by: driller

Tip: Use a thin metal shield between the ground electrode and the center electrode to protect the center electrode from the file. I used a small paint trim shield.

Lightly clamp the spark plug in a vise or use a small C-clamp to clamp it to a bench or shelf. File the ground electrode back at least midways to the center electrode. I used a small 3 sided file. Then round off the square end. Finally, smooth any sharp edges with emery cloth or crocus cloth and inspect carefully. Be sure to recheck the gap afterwards.

Posted by: WackyWRZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by driller

The 4 in 764 denotes 1 step colder than midrange(5).

http://www.autolite.com/tech/SparkPl...ringSystem.pdf

Check 'number 8' out on this page:

http://www.autolite.com/tech/SparkPlugTypes.pdf

Apparently, these are available retail??

The AWSF-32C plug which is stock to the engine crosses DIRECTLY over to the 764. I emailed Autolite about this and they said that the 764 is stock heat range. BTW what chris said about using colder plugs I have personally found to be true. My car would ping w/ 764s but I put in the AWSF-22Cs and it stopped pinging, and seemed to pull harder.

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by WackyWRZ

Hmmmmmm, intriquing information.

I have no pinging(that I know of), but I wouldn't mind getting a set of AWSF-22Cs and/or AWSF-12Cs and see the results. I'll have my parts guy at work ask the local FLM dealer if they are stock. I don't have any mileage on the plugs, but I don't mind changing them. Maybe I can do a Tazzo run before and after and compare.

Posted by: WackyWRZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by driller

Yeah, those 764s I replaced were only 2 months old if that. I put in the 22Cs and gapped at .050 and she'll burn rubber from a stop instead of hearing PINNGNGGNGINGGG -- Chirp. Now if I just replaced these 10 year old wires with some MSDs I can't imagine. Wish I had a Tazzo or something similar. I'll have to look in on ebay sometime.

Champions sure do run good in my bro's 1994 Chrysler Lebarron (3.0 Mitsubishi Engine). I wouldn't put them in anything though. The guys at the parts store get pissed when I bring them a lawnmower plug and make them cross it to a different brand. HEH

Posted by: Topcat

As posted at the Autolite Sparkplug Site...................

Heat ranges are not the same between brands

How heat is dissipated

Heat range

The term spark plug heat range refers to the speed with which the plug can transfer heat from the combustion chamber to the engine head. Whether the plug is to be installed in a boat, lawnmower or racecar, it has been found the optimum combustion chamber temperature for gasoline engines is between 500°C–850°C. When it is within that range it is cool enough to avoid pre-ignition and plug tip overheating (which can cause engine damage), while still hot enough to burn off combustion deposits which cause fouling.

The spark plug can help maintain the optimum combustion chamber temperature. The primary method used to do this is by altering the internal length of the core nose, in addition, the alloy compositions in the electrodes can be changed. This means you may not be able to visually tell a difference between heat ranges. When a spark plug is referred to as a “cold plug”, it is one that transfers heat rapidly from the firing tip into the engine head, which keeps the firing tip cooler. A “hot plug” has a much slower rate of heat transfer, which keeps the firing tip hotter.

An unaltered engine will run within the optimum operating range straight from the manufacturer, but if you make modifications such as a turbo, supercharger, increase compression, timing changes, use of alternate racing fuels, or sustained use of nitrous oxide, these can alter the plug tip temperature and may necessitate a colder plug. A rule of thumb is, one heat range colder per modification or one heat range colder for every 75–100hp you increase. In identical spark plug types, the difference from one full heat range to the next is the ability to remove 70°C to 100°C from the combustion chamber.

The heat range numbers used by spark plug manufacturers are not universal, by that we mean, a 10 heat range in Champion is not the same as a 10 heat range in NGK nor the same in Autolite. Some manufacturers numbering systems are opposite the other, for domestic manufacturers (Champion, Autolite, Splitfire), the higher the number, the hotter the plug. For Japanese manufacturers (NGK, Denso), the higher the number, the colder the plug.

Do not make spark plug changes at the same time as another engine modification such as injection, carburetion or timing changes as in the event of poor results, it can lead to misleading and inaccurate conclusions (an exception would be when the alternate plugs came as part of a single precalibrated upgrade kit). When making spark plug heat range changes, it is better to err on the side of too cold a plug. The worst thing that can happen from too cold a plug is a fouled spark plug, too hot a spark plug can cause severe engine damage

Posted by: mikepietras04

Quote:

Originally Posted by justcauz

A funny thing about Champion spark plugs, Champion manufactures spark plugs for just about every one out there. they manufacture just about all of AC's plugs infact the AC stands for non other then Arnald Champion. Champion makes plugs for NGK as well and I could be wrong but I think Accel also has some plugs by Champion.
Edelbrock has joined with Champion because they feel they supply the correct and best performing spark plugs for all applications.
I know Champion sold some crap for years but they are past that all and now produce some of the best plugs and wires around
I also understand Champion produces Volvos plug wires.

Im sure no one cares but, My Dad worked as Head dyno engineer at the toledo plant for years and developed champions fuel system tune-up kits, and thermocouple spark plugs. He knows the champion history pretty well. According to a book he has, AC stood for Albert Champion. In addtion to this, ive seen many dyno/lab tests on numerous different spark plugs, and champion always out performed, especially when it came to platinum plugs. The matierials used were of higher quality, and would be less prone to causing preigntion. reason for this is champion uses copper cored ground electrodes, and dissapates heat alot better than any other. if you want proof, take a champion plug, and any other brand, hold them both to a torch, and watch wich one will glow hotter, and stay red longer. definately not the champion.

Posted by: kleetus

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikepietras04

I'm hoping you don't try this with your hands... That could get ugly...

Hey about the filing of the plugs, what does this do for the longevity of the plug? Would this even be effective with platinum plugs? They have a smaller electrode to start with... Sugestions?

Posted by: crazyman

I have no specs or numbers, I don't have access to a dyno and don't have performance numbers for my 2 not real performance oriented Lincolns.I can tell you that between my wife and I, I have been responsible for at least 9 vehicles, as well as what I owned before I met her.Some were hot rods, some weren't. I run Autolites ONLY. I have had bad luck with Champion, Bosch, and AC. I've never had a problem with Autolites, and 2 days ago, I installed Autolites in my Continental, replacing Champions, (which looked like s***), that the previous owner installed.Everyone has their opinion, but my 2 cents is, go Autolite.I use them in my cars, and I recommend them to everyone I do tune-ups for.Noone has complained yet.

Posted by: rlysmthn

Spark plugs are extremely simple devices, period, they come in different heat ranges thread sizes and depth of threads, (as well as gasketed or tapered seat, the rest is just pretty much hype,) to accomodate the burn temps of different engine conditions, stoichiometric combustion is the sweet spot and has a particular "burn" temperature, of course hotter plugs are needed in an oilburner, colder ones are needed if the exhaust valves are not perfect, or the engine is running under a very high load and high ambient temp.take it from someone who has more than 20,000 cars under his belt and lots of tech training and more. Try reading some of the spark plug manafacturers catalogues, and do some technical reading, find and learn to recognize spark plug conditions from a color pictorial demonstration chart. bet it takes you all of two hours to become pretty expert. Spark plugs are a very simple device, by the way I put three 20% gas saviong devices on my car two that improve performance 45% and then one more gas saver that does 48%. I can now pass anything on the road, the only trouble that I have to deal with is that I have to stop pretty often to let some gas out, cause all the gas saving devices I put on have been making my gas tank overflow from saving so much, the good part is that I am making extra money selling the gas that I have to drain off. What a great way to solve the worlds energy crisis, and create a new petrohydrocarbon source. thats all folks. Whats new?. BTW I like autolite plugs, great price, I use them as often as i can, but some of the other plug manuf. have half range as compared and when doing a fine temp match or fixing a particular cyl problem I do cross-brand, and sometime I use the matching brand for name sake of being oem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyman

I have no specs or numbers, I don't have access to a dyno and don't have performance numbers for my 2 not real performance oriented Lincolns.I can tell you that between my wife and I, I have been responsible for at least 9 vehicles, as well as what I owned before I met her.Some were hot rods, some weren't. I run Autolites ONLY. I have had bad luck with Champion, Bosch, and AC. I've never had a problem with Autolites, and 2 days ago, I installed Autolites in my Continental, replacing Champions, (which looked like s***), that the previous owner installed.Everyone has their opinion, but my 2 cents is, go Autolite.I use them in my cars, and I recommend them to everyone I do tune-ups for.Noone has complained yet.

Posted by: buddylee

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlysmthn

Spark plugs are extremely simple devices, period, they come in different heat ranges thread sizes and depth of threads, (as well as gasketed or tapered seat, the rest is just pretty much hype,) to accomodate the burn temps of different engine conditions, stoichiometric combustion is the sweet spot and has a particular "burn" temperature, of course hotter plugs are needed in an oilburner, colder ones are needed if the exhaust valves are not perfect, or the engine is running under a very high load and high ambient temp.take it from someone who has more than 20,000 cars under his belt and lots of tech training and more. Try reading some of the spark plug manafacturers catalogues, and do some technical reading, find and learn to recognize spark plug conditions from a color pictorial demonstration chart. bet it takes you all of two hours to become pretty expert. Spark plugs are a very simple device, by the way I put three 20% gas saviong devices on my car two that improve performance 45% and then one more gas saver that does 48%. I can now pass anything on the road, the only trouble that I have to deal with is that I have to stop pretty often to let some gas out, cause all the gas saving devices I put on have been making my gas tank overflow from saving so much, the good part is that I am making extra money selling the gas that I have to drain off. What a great way to solve the worlds energy crisis, and create a new petrohydrocarbon source. thats all folks. Whats new?. BTW I like autolite plugs, great price, I use them as often as i can, but some of the other plug manuf. have half range as compared and when doing a fine temp match or fixing a particular cyl problem I do cross-brand, and sometime I use the matching brand for name sake of being oem.

what are you saying ?? sound like crap over flow?

Posted by: Marked1

what are you saying? what devices do that? maybe im just a simple man, but i have no idea what devices would do what you are saying.... please elaborate for the lamen....thanks

Posted by: Drnaline

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikepietras04

I agree, a few years back. I pit crewed on a Top Fuel for two years and seven years in JR. Fuel. No matter what sticker they had on the side of the rail they had Champions in the heads.

Posted by: Drnaline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marked1

what are you saying? what devices do that? maybe im just a simple man, but i have no idea what devices would do what you are saying.... please elaborate for the lamen....thanks

He must be talking about Beans, and he's probably wearing rubber pants to catch it, LOL

Posted by: 99 Towncar

My head hurts now.

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