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LS vs Marauder

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Posted by: driller

I've been dreaming and keep coming back to looking around for a Marauder despite knowing better. But the other day I stop and look at an '02 LS w/ V8, black on black for $21K and liked what I saw(for once). It had a lot of little chips and typical door dings, so I probably could've dealed a lower $. I just love the idea of a Marauder though, probably mostly because of the rarity but also the style.

But being a true Lincolnholic I thought I'd pose a couple questions. The LS seems to be approx. the same price range as an '03 Marauder give or take some for mileage and condition, but which would be more bang for the buck? Keep in mind I've not drove either so at this point I'm unbiased - and uninformed. This would end up being more a daily driver for the better half, so I'd be trading in her Sable(or just selling it outright). She'd rather drive the '93 Mark, but that ain't happening. And no she doesn't want another Mark, she wants a newer year than her 2000. What would be the pro's/con's of either as a daily driver?

Posted by: kleetus

My former rides were all in the panther chassis. With that said, I'm not sure... You can definately do a lot more to a Maruader than you can an LS. Heck you can drop a SC cobra engine in it with very little work, and parts are extremely common. You have Crown Vics, Grand Marquis and Town Cars to pick parts from.

The LS has a lot goinbg for it too, but it has a much more narrow range of parts to play with, and the cost for those parts is pretty steep as well. I just discovered that the front ball joint will cost me $250, just for parts. Crown Vics are about $35... Gas mileage wise, I think the Marauder will kill the LS.

Personally, I'd have one of each!

Posted by: Quik LS

They are very different cars

- the LS is a more sophisticated, balanced - a BMW getter

- the Maruader can be made to be more of a 'American' big monster.

The complex electronics, wiring and lack of room to work in - are challenges the LS owners face - but trade for the more European ride and finesse.

Posted by: FreeFaller

Yeah, it all depends on what you want...

Stoplight to Stoplight (Marauder)

Taking 45mph turns at 100 mph...(LS)

Posted by: MonsterMark

If it is your wife's car, how 'bout asking her for HER opinion.

I would base the decision on size rather than performance. Does she really care if it really gets up and goes or does she just want to get there. Personally, if you have kids, it is hard to beat a SUV or dare I say a minivan for hauling the kids around and picking stuff up at the hardware store.

My wife drives an Expedition and wouldn't have it any other way. I would prefer the Marauder for ease of entry. Plus, that chassis platorm has been proven to go 200-300k miles. Don't know the long term life expectancy of the LS yet.

Last, the price seems a little high on the LS. I think there are better buys out there.

Posted by: jdsimons

Price seems awfully steep if you ask me. Specially if it has chips on the hood and door dings. But like you said rarity of the marauder would be nice but ls has in my opinion is an awesome car not only to look at but to drive as well. What will suprise you probably like it did me was the horrible gas mileage. That might be something to consider as well.

Posted by: Fordman

Women are really funny when it comes to cars. I had a Continental before the LS, my wife hated driving it because of its size. The first time she even sat in the LS that was it. She said now this car I'll drive. But I don't let that happen very often. I really like the Maurader, and would possibly consider it next time. Especially if Lincoln F!@#s up the new LS.

Posted by: JohnnyB

The Marauder and the LS get about the same gas mileage. Marauders aren't as fast as everyone thinks either, stock they do mid to low 15's in the 1/4. I've done 15.8 in my Crown Vic with a Marauder maf and a chip. Also, is your wife going to want to step up to a car the size of a Marauder after driving a Sable? IMHO Marauders are cool and all, but if the car is going to be used as a daily driver the only choice is the LS.

Posted by: blk04lse

I have to agree the price on the 02 LS is a bit steep... Drive both, but look around for a better price. You may want to price out an 03/04 LS too....

Posted by: MikeB

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

It looks like size realy does matter.

My wife drives the Expedition (aka "The School Bus") also.

I always wanted a Marauder, but she said she wouldn't drive it because it was an old persons car. Evidently nobody told her the average age of a Lincoln driver (thank god). She loves the LS.

The LS is a great car. It has enough sport feel and power (once you tune it) to have some fun, without looking like a ricer, muscle car, or emergency vehicle.

Plus, it perfect for the winding hills of MS Gulf Coast.

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

If it is your wife's car, how 'bout asking her for HER opinion.

What?! You think I'm crazy? LOL.

Actually she said Marauder, but whatever I put her in is fine with her. Suprisingly she loves big vehicles(an Expedition would suit her just fine). If this search gets serious, we'll have to drive both.

She likes the Sable(it is the DOHC V6), but it was a tough sell to get her out of the Mark VIII a couple years back. She's not shy with the accelerator either, but the other day when we were in the Mark VIII(and I tromped it onto an entrance ramp and got a little sideways on the 1-2 shift) she quipped, "Does it always fishtail like that now?" LOL!

As far as possible modding, upkeep and maintenance, I'd definitely prefer the Marauder over the LS, but I can learn new ways.

I agree with the platform under the Marauder being a good long term choice capable of 200K miles plus . I'm sure Geno and a couple others would like to see me pick up a Marauder.

So the concensus seems to be the LS was overpriced? I never really kept up with the LS segment of the market. An '03-'04 LS may be worth looking into if it goes for nearly the same $. I know the Marauder market seems to tip to the low mileage/higher price end of the scale even though depreciation has not been kind to them either. The ones you do find seem to be lo miles and higher than blue book. The LS is something I'll need to research more.

The next problem then becomes...

... who gets the garage?(The Mark VIII does now)

Posted by: StraDog

I'm going to have to say the Marauder...

I seen about 2 last night, and man those things are tight.

Something about the black one just sets me off, nice monochrome treatment, nice chrome wheels, awesome exhaust coming out the back. I love these things. And, similar to the Mark, after a few eigine tweaks, this thing can tear some sh|t up... Also the interior on these things are especially nice. I love the gauges in the lower dash and the leather on the seats are very nice with the logo.

I vote : Marauder

Posted by: lsbit

Marauder would be my vote for a family roadster. They were out of my price range. Again, totally different cars. I would think the Marauder will end up being less up-keep in the end. That being said, I have two LSs right now. I do wonder if I will ever have them both running without problems though.

Thank God for my '95 Mustang GTS. It gets me where I need to go with 130k and boost thrown at it while I work on the LS.

My wife didn't want a truck based SUV and wanted to stick with a safe sedan and we figured the LS would do OK. I think next go around we will get an SUV with good crash test results though. Not enough room in the LS.

Posted by: Dutch

Marauders are really nice. They're the closest thing to a modern muscle car (especially if you put 4.10s in them). I tried to buy one about an hour before I bought my LS, actually.

They are really different cars as stated above. I really like the quiet of the LS, along with the great handling. I'm sure I'd have enjoyed the loud rumble of the Marauder, too. It would also be nice to be able to easily bolt on more power. Oh, the aftermarket!

I don't think you can make a wrong pick.

Posted by: 99 KOBRA

The chassis/suspension for the LS is trick, the same can't be said for the Marauder.

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99 KOBRA

The chassis/suspension for the LS is trick, the same can't be said for the Marauder.

the LS was meant to take on the world sport sedans - Lincoln marketing failed it. It won car of the year in 2000.

the Marauder is re-used. Good but not world class by any stretch.

Posted by: kleetus

True the Marauder isn't world class, but every time you get a ticket, her ugley sister pops in to say hello. I got a lot more respect on the road with my Merq than I have with my LS. I can also tell you from personal experience those things are very safe, you can hit damn near anything and walk away from it and giggle at what happened to the other guy...

About the handling... Unless I have gotten forgetfull in my old age... the Marauder can pull .98G's on the skid pad, which was one of their selling points. It may not be as nimble as the LS, but at only about 350 pounds heavier, you're not going to get too far from it on a road course. The quickest way to get some snot out of them is put the 235/50/17 on it and leave the 3.55's alone. You actually end up with a better final drive ratio than stock, and the tires are nearly as expensive. Believe me, I've been contemplating this for about 4 years now, and there are a lot of options to make that car really stupid fast...

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by kleetus

True the Marauder isn't world class, but every time you get a ticket, her ugley sister pops in to say hello. I got a lot more respect on the road with my Merq than I have with my LS. I can also tell you from personal experience those things are very safe, you can hit damn near anything and walk away from it and giggle at what happened to the other guy...

- remember that the Lincoln LS is #3 in the ALL TIME CRASH TEST result...

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/..._overall_c.htm

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/00017.htm

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by kleetus

About the handling... Unless I have gotten forgetfull in my old age... the Marauder can pull .98G's on the skid pad, which was one of their selling points.

Not quite, 0.98Gs is sports car territory, the Marauder is in the low 0.8x's (can't remember exactly). You'd have to dump alot of $$ into the M's suspension to come close to LS's stock handling.

Stock-to-stock, I'd have to say an LS wins hands down. The stock M's are not that fast, between and LS8 and an LS6. However they DO have a much larger aftermarket potential to go really fast, thanks to that 4.6L. Yet, the LS-8 does have some potential, there is a S/C kit in development now, and it'll be interesting to see what it'll do for the LS. However, if you needed to tow a boat, the Marauder would be the proper choice. Body-on-frame construction = strong and durable, but overweight and clumsy in the curves.

Merc was going after the market vacated by the RWD Impala SS. However they fell short on performance and long on $$. C&D (I think) did a comparo between a Marauder and a '96 SS and the SS was faster (despite a 35+ HP advantage to the Merc), out-handled the M, and was cheaper even if you account for price inflation between '96 and '03.

I had considered a Marauder when I was in the market for our LS. I'm glad I didn't make that mistake.

Posted by: Sifrino3

I raced a Marauder. 14.6-14.7 all night. . . Plus I drove one. I didn't really see any diff from Sifrino. It must be on the Top TOP end. . .

Posted by: kleetus

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

Old age is taking it's toll.. the magic number is .86G as reported by Bar and Driver... I know they did some different things with the frame, and made the car about 50% stiffer, but lacking the IRS and such, yeah, it's probably not as tight. I still wouldn't think twice to take one well over 100...

As far as the M's go... Sorry... I bleed little blue ovals like the rest of us, but there's no way a car with 333HP, a 6 speed and almost 500 pounds lighter is going to be slower in any arena. The brakes are an inch larger front and rear and they go 0-60 in 4.8, we can't... Granted, we're also $20k cheaper, so that makes up for a lot, but still. Anybody have any skid pad numbers for either car?

Posted by: GMAN

Depreciation has made the Marauder a great buy now.

Posted by: kleetus

Yeah, the LS too...

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sifrino3

I raced a Marauder. 14.6-14.7 all night. . . Plus I drove one. I didn't really see any diff from Sifrino. It must be on the Top TOP end. . .

What mods were done to that Marauder? Considering most of the mags got high 15s - low 16s on a stock Marauder, I kinda doubt the one running mid 14s was stock. Can't say I've raced one or seen one run, but all reports I've seen they were at least a second slower stock.

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by kleetus

As far as the M's go... Sorry... I bleed little blue ovals like the rest of us, but there's no way a car with 333HP, a 6 speed and almost 500 pounds lighter is going to be slower in any arena. The brakes are an inch larger front and rear and they go 0-60 in 4.8, we can't... Granted, we're also $20k cheaper, so that makes up for a lot, but still. Anybody have any skid pad numbers for either car?

?? Sounds like you are referring to a M3? Didn't realize they made a M3 sedan (4-dr).

Posted by: 99 KOBRA

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

?? Sounds like you are referring to a M3? Didn't realize they made a M3 sedan (4-dr).

The last four-door M3 was an E36 M3 (i.e., the 240 hp M3, not the current chassis/engine).

Posted by: kleetus

I'm lost on the E36... I'm talking BMW... 2000 to at least '03 was 333 HP out of the inline 6, with the manual 6 speed or the steptronic that they have, that GM copied for the Grand prix...

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Sorry, I probably started this confusion by referring to the Marauders as "M's"...... and I think kleetus thought I was referring to M3s........ which confused me because, as 99 KOBRA confirmed that the 333HP ones were coupes only, it didn't make sense to me comparing a small, high-HP coupe to a relative barge. In my earlier post I was trying to draw a comparison between the Marauders and the RWD Impala SS, 260HP, 4L60E. These two cars are in the same class, and thus comparable.

Posted by: kleetus

ah gotcha...