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Pages: 1

Super Weird Door Speaker Issue

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Posted by: triniti

I've been reading this group for months and decided to join this LS fraternity. Please help me with this thorn in my side.

I have a 2000 LS with the Alpine AudioPhile System. I had the Alpine stereo with cassette and changer in the glove compartment. One day when I was getting off the expressway the door speakers went very low out and never went back to full volume. The console
tweeters and subs were the only things I could hear. When I did the speaker test (#3 and #6) I heard the all the door speakers but one were just barely
playing. The other one didn't play at all.

I bought a new Alpine Audiophile 6-Disc In-Dash unit for a 2000-2002 LS (to preserve the original stock appearance), installed it and everything went back to sounding as it should...actually even better. All of a sudden the door speakers stopped playing loud again. But get this! When I unplug the harness from the back of the systems for a couple minutes and plug it back in it plays normal again. When I play it for a while at a little past mid-level they go low again.

What in the heck could be causing this? The speakers don't sound blowed when they play normally or during the test. This head unit can't be bad too. I also noticed that the right side of the head unit gets very hot. It's almost like when an amp overheats and shuts off but, these speakers never come back on until you unplug the main harness and plug it back in.

I know about the one main amp in the trunk for the subs/consoles but some other techs told me that some models had 3 amps total. One for the sub, one for the consoles and one for the doors. Is this true? And if so where is the amp that controls the doors?

More importantly what could be causing this and how can I fix it for minimal cost. The 6-Disc In-Dash wasn't cheap. I just want my sounds back to normal and this issue is driving me nuts.


Posted by: kleetus

Here again, check your wiring. You may have a wire with some worn insulation on it. Yeah, it's going to be a bitch to find, you may even have to run new wire. 18 gauge lamp cord is cheap and works just fine no matter what the stereo shops tell you. Unless you're pushing more than 150 per speaker it won't make any difference the human ear can detect. Besides, when's the last time you saw a lamp burn up because the cord couldn't handle it? Watts are watts... I digress...

Dunno about the number of amps. It would sound logical that there are multiple amps, front, rear, sub etc, but I personally haven't dug around. A lot of the guys on here can tell you more about what came stock. I have the same system that you do.

The fact that two separate head units have displayed the same behavior would make me think something else is out of whack. Wiring or a harness would be your best bet for the trouble source. I would be surprised, but not shocked to find that Ford did build some form of protection into the head unit for just such events.


Posted by: eL eS

sounds like a wiring issue. You might want to shop ebay for the OEM factory wiring diagram shop book. Or rewire the speakers, maybe just do one speaker and test drive it to see if it coorects the problem completely.


Posted by: jdsimons

I was wondering do they completely shut off to whisper quiet or is it just slightly lower.


Posted by: MikeB

Not sure about the LS, but some of the old Alpine amps went into a reduced protect mode when they had saw a lower ohm load. Such as a speaker going bad.
The speakers may still play at a lower volume but when the volume goes up the change in ohm load could trigger the protect, which would reset if the amp was turned off and then on.

That one speaker is more than likely your problem.


Posted by: triniti

r
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsimons
I was wondering do they completely shut off to whisper quiet or is it just slightly lower.
They are whisper quiet except for the one door which is dead altogether. The tweets and subs drown them out. The only way you can hear them is to do the speaker test. That's how I figured I was getting SOME sound from them.

Then I unplug the harness and plug it back in and everything is all good. For a little while anyway.


Posted by: jdsimons

good point mikeb.. my guess is that hooking up those components dropped your impedence down to 4 or 2 ohms. And when you crank up your stereo the resitance should lower making it drop possibly from 2 to 1 getting the amps even hotter. That is just a thought. Wonder if you just unplug you tweeters from your components and play full range through your 5.25" if will still do this.. Might try it if anything..


Posted by: kleetus

The speaker resistance is constant, unless they go open, which means they are shot. Your volume goes up because you are putting more volts out of the amp, that is the only variable.


Posted by: MikeB

What I meant about going bad is when the non conductive material around the voice coil is melted off in a certain area just enough to shorten the electrical current (say 200' to 150') then the ohm load will drop.
This doesn't happen often but I have seen it when a very clean (distortion free) amp is played at high volume.
I've also seen an Alpine tweeter get so hot it melted the abs plastic case like a stick of butter and still played (barely). The voice coil was fused in quite a few places.


Posted by: triniti

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB
Not sure about the LS, but some of the old Alpine amps went into a reduced protect mode when they had saw a lower ohm load. Such as a speaker going bad.
The speakers may still play at a lower volume but when the volume goes up the change in ohm load could trigger the protect, which would reset if the amp was turned off and then on.

That one speaker is more than likely your problem.
Just noticed something else when I just finished installing everything. When the speakers do go out only the passenger side of the car has sound. The front and rear driver side speakers don't play at all and the passenger speakers play to a whisper. I also noticed one time today when the speakers went out, a popping sound coming from the driver's door with dead silence coming from the driver rear. I haven't heard it since. Now both driver doors are just dead.

Also when I do a speaker test the drivers door sounds muffled compared to the other doors which sound clear. As long as I play the stereo low there are no door speaker issues.

Could this be the problem? Please advise ASAP.


Posted by: MikeB

Are the door speakers still factory?


Posted by: triniti

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB
Are the door speakers still factory?
Yes. Only the head unit was replaced by me and I seriously doubt the previous owner made any upgrades.


Posted by: MikeB

Next step is taking the door pannels off.

I'd start with the rear driver then the front.
Disconnect the speaker and see if there is any effect on the volume of the others.
You may have to turn the car off then on to reset the amp.


Posted by: triniti

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB
Next step is taking the door pannels off.

I'd start with the rear driver then the front.
Disconnect the speaker and see if there is any effect on the volume of the others.
You may have to turn the car off then on to reset the amp.
OK I will do that when i get a chance. It's cold here in Ohio (22°) but should warm up a little over the next few days.

If it is the speakers, what are the technical and physical specifications for the door speakers for this system? I want to make sure I don't blow the HU up with speakers to powerful for it.

Thanx.


Posted by: MikeB

You shouldn't be able to hurt the head unit or amps by getting the wrong sp but as for the specs(size, wattage, and ohm), someone else will have to give them to you.
I don't have that system in my LS.
I would assume that it is a 6.5" component set, @ 50w, 1 to 6 ohm. FLM likes 4 ohm speakers but sometimes amplified systems are different.


Posted by: triniti

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB
Next step is taking the door pannels off.

I'd start with the rear driver then the front.
Disconnect the speaker and see if there is any effect on the volume of the others.
You may have to turn the car off then on to reset the amp.
Mike what exactly should I be looking for and what steps should I take if there is an effect or there isn't an effect?


Posted by: MikeB

Once you get the door pannel off and the speaker removed (unplugged) the radio should play at the higher volume if that speaker was the problem.

If you remove the speaker and the radio still sounds funny then more than likely that speaker is good.

This is a trial and error process, but each door shouldn't take any more than 15 minutes or less once you get the first one.

Just a sugestion, I would do the driver's side front and back first and leave both the speaker disconnected when I reset the radio.

If the sound is still low after you unplug each speaker individually, (with turning the car off then on before checking) then the problem is with the amps or the wiring.

99.9% of the time if the speakers are good then it's the amps. The wiring is usually good unless someone has been jacking with it.

Someone in this forum did a great step by step with picture door speaker removal.
I cant seem to find it now but if you post a thread they will come.


Posted by: triniti

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB
Once you get the door pannel off and the speaker removed (unplugged) the radio should play at the higher volume if that speaker was the problem.

If you remove the speaker and the radio still sounds funny then more than likely that speaker is good.

This is a trial and error process, but each door shouldn't take any more than 15 minutes or less once you get the first one.

Just a sugestion, I would do the driver's side front and back first and leave both the speaker disconnected when I reset the radio.

If the sound is still low after you unplug each speaker individually, (with turning the car off then on before checking) then the problem is with the amps or the wiring.

99.9% of the time if the speakers are good then it's the amps. The wiring is usually good unless someone has been jacking with it.

Someone in this forum did a great step by step with picture door speaker removal.
I cant seem to find it now but if you post a thread they will come.
I appreciate the info Mike. I'll give it a shot and replace the door speakers while I'm at it.


Posted by: triniti

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB
If the sound is still low after you unplug each speaker individually, (with turning the car off then on before checking) then the problem is with the amps or the wiring.

99.9% of the time if the speakers are good then it's the amps. The wiring is usually good unless someone has been jacking with it.
I just noticed you said amp(s). Is there more than the one main one? If so, where can I find it/them?


Posted by: MikeB

Quote:
Originally Posted by triniti
I appreciate the info Mike. I'll give it a shot and replace the door speakers while I'm at it.
Sounds good to me. That what I would do.


Posted by: MikeB

Quote:
Originally Posted by triniti
I just noticed you said amp(s). Is there more than the one main one? If so, where can I find it/them?
You got me on that one.
I don't have any factory amps, but I would expect two under the rear deck.
One for the subs and one for the other sp's.
I'm sure someone in LVC has removed theirs and would be better able to describe the amp(s).




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