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Buying my first Mark VIII - help me choose please

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Posted by: Trippen Out

howdy im new and im getting ready to purchess my first mark viii. i had some questions for you guys out there. i have 2 to choose from the first is a 1996 LSC i havnt seen car myself yet but the pictures look relly nice. the car is 2200 what he is telling me is wrong with it is. the sun roof does not work and the v belt slips ( im not sure what a v belt is) im guessing the serp belt. lastly there is no stereo installed (not an issue im all about aftermark audio anyway) its black on black.

my second option is a 1997 base model. its white on white or cream on white or white on cream. you get the idea. it too looks in fabulous condition this one is going for 2600 the only thing im being told that is wrong with the car is out side door handle does not work. the only way to open the passenger door is from the inside.

so those are my 2 options. now the big question. how much work would it take to convert the base model over to an LSC from what ive learned so far is the lsc has true dual exhaust (which i would custom that on either car anyway) it has a different gear which id look to put a 3.55 in it anyway (car will see very little high way usage most roads are 45-55 tops ) and something about sway bars i think or something that affects the way they handle.

okay so there ya have it. i know that i am getting a mark viii ive been torn from a mustang to a tbird to a mark viii and the mark wins for me. so of coure im looking forward to seeing your imput and in excited about getting in one of these fine rides. thanks up front for the info.

Posted by: ford nut

I would keep looking.
A 96 I would stay away form.
It has parts that are unique to that year if they go bad its next to impossible to find a replacement.

A gen 2 base to me are ugly, if you want a gen 2 LSC keep looking for one.
Good luck

Posted by: Trippen Out

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford nut

I would keep looking.
A 96 I would stay away form.
It has parts that are unique to that year if they go bad its next to impossible to find a replacement.

A gen 2 base to me are ugly, if you want a gen 2 LSC keep looking for one.
Good luck

thanks. ive been looking i cant find one thats affordable to me in this area they all want 5k and up for them. i didnt notice a difference between the gen 2 base and lsc other then the chrome not being chrome

Posted by: Trippen Out

sorry for double posting. is it just the 96 that has the most parts rarity . becuase i just found a 95 LSC for 1k (talk about lucky it poped on the for sale block 1 hour ago.) just needs a starter

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trippen Out

sorry for double posting. is it just the 96 that has the most parts rarity . becuase i just found a 95 LSC for 1k (talk about lucky it poped on the for sale block 1 hour ago.) just needs a starter

Well the starter is a pain to install but the 95 has less rare parts.

Posted by: Calabrio

It just needs a starter- meaning the car won't start... and you'll just have to take the sellers word that it runs great otherwise? Keep looking, unless he's damn near giving the car away.

Don't worry about the LSC designation. The performance isn't notably different. The difference is that they've don't have chrome trim and they have perforated leather seats.

That's all that's really important for the sake of this discussion.

Technically they have a 3.27 rear end and dual exhaust, the gen 1s MIGHT have HIDs, but that's really of little significance. And I know of no difference concerning the sway bars.

There are a bunch of us here who live in the Tampa Bay area, so feel free to ask any questions.

Posted by: Trippen Out

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabrio

It just needs a starter- meaning the car won't start... and you'll just have to take the sellers word that it runs great otherwise? Keep looking, unless he's damn near giving the car away.

Don't worry about the LSC designation. The performance isn't notably different. The difference is that they've don't have chrome trim and they have perforated leather seats.

That's all that's really important for the sake of this discussion.

Technically they have a 3.27 rear end and dual exhaust, the gen 1s MIGHT have HIDs, but that's really of little significance. And I know of no difference concerning the sway bars.

There are a bunch of us here who live in the Tampa Bay area, so feel free to ask any questions.

good deal. thanks for the welcomed invite. the 95 i can pick up for $1000 and for the price of a starter i dont mind buying one taking it over there installing and taking it for a test drive.

then taking it off and taking it back to autozone for a refund if i dont get the car or just craigslist it since it will fit many different cars. the HIDS are a big sig for me. i really want them either way im in line for one of 3 cars. either the 95 lsc (if it works out well) the 96 lsc or the 97 base. .. i do like the idea of 1000 for the 95 that leaves me room for some really addons since i have 3k to spend on the car.

Posted by: Calabrio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trippen Out

good deal. thanks for the welcomed invite. the 95 i can pick up for $1000 and for the price of a starter i dont mind buying one taking it over there installing and taking it for a test drive.

then taking it off and taking it back to autozone for a refund if i dont get the car or just craigslist it since it will fit many different cars.

Be prepared... this isn't like installing a starter motor into an old Mustang.
There are worse installs, but it's not a 5 minute affair either.

Quote:

the HIDS are a big sig for me. i really want them

The HIDs are great. The factory halogens on the Gen1 Mark VIIIs are terrible.
However, they are incredibly expensive to replace. The replacement bulbs are simply not available anymore. You have to pay a premium to buy used bulbs or the handful of new ones that are floating around...

I installed the factory HIDs on my GEN1 Mark VIII.
With the benefit of hindsight, I think it would have been wiser to have simply installed an aftermarket HID kit.

Quote:

either way im in line for one of 3 cars. either the 95 lsc (if it works out well) the 96 lsc or the 97 base. .. i do like the idea of 1000 for the 95 that leaves me room for some really addons since i have 3k to spend on the car.

Off the top of my head, remember to pay close attention to:

1- the air ride. Does the car lose air as it sits over night? Do you hear the compressor kicking on while on the test drive at low speeds? If you touch the bags with your hands, does the rubber feel like it's about to fail?

2- the transmission. How does it shift? Don't just drive the car fast, drive it slow, speed up and slow down. Check the fluid. All that stuff. This'll also help find misfires.

Those are the two biggies I can think of at the moment.

Posted by: Woof47

The advise and suggestions given so far are good and come from knowledgable people. Some thing else to look at would be to make sure coolant fan comes on when turning on the max a/c. If it doesn't come on, this could be an indication that the car may have been run hot in the past. I have two '96s. After looking at about 30-35 M8s, I chose the black/black LSC because it was the car I wanted. I have dealt with and can attest to the difficulty in finding some of the '96 specific' parts. The base model was purchased to be a parts car but turned out too good for that. So now I have two. This being your first foray into an M8, I would suggest going for the '95 if the car is as advertised. No matter which one you choose, expect that parts will be more expensive than something like a Mustang or others. Before spending money on upgrades, get the car up and running, drive it for a while and make repairs as needed to make sure it's going to be dependable and safe, doing upgrades in the areas that need repairs as you go. Form a plan for your upgrades based on your goals and suggestions received from knowledgable and experienced people on this site. Hope this helps. Good luck and enjoy.

Bill

Posted by: XLRVIII

as a previous first gen owner with 400,000 miles of seat time in a 95.

I would say "hold out" for a second gen.

after my 95 was stolen i picked up a 98 LSC for 2500 and for the life of me couldn't figure out "why I waited so long".

better headlights, more tuning options...etc.

Posted by: Calabrio

More tuning options, but still slower, right?

Posted by: ford nut

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

as a previous first gen owner with 400,000 miles of seat time in a 95.

I would say "hold out" for a second gen.

after my 95 was stolen i picked up a 98 LSC for 2500 and for the life of me couldn't figure out "why I waited so long".

better headlights, more tuning options...etc.

+1 if you like the looks of them.
Some color options I can't stand...some I love
Look at a lot of cars, were your at its Mark heaven.
Look at the ones you can't afford, it will give you an idea of what you like.
Some people think these car are worth more then they are.
They sit on them, then come down on price.

Don't be quick to buy, these cars can cost a ton of money to repair.
You could buy one for $2,500 that needs $2500 of repairs.
Or spend a little more on one that needs less.
If you can turn a wrench you will save money.

Ask any question here before you buy, someone will help.
Learn to use the search on this site.

Welcome to

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabrio

More tuning options, but still slower, right?

yea..but it still has more better tuning options...

my stone stock second gen went 15.3
with a tune only it went 14.7
my stone stock 95 went 15.3
with a tune it dropped into the same 14.6-14.7 range.
gears and exhaust dropped it into the 14.30 range...
in the end before it was stolen it went 14.1

the tune on my second gen took less than a month to "dial in".
whereas on my 95 it was a 2-3 year process due to the lack of datalogging and I had to depend of dragstrip trips to evaluate

2nd gen FTW.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

The interior in second gens is so much better it's not even funny...

Posted by: Calabrio

I'm not in agreement.
But I also would have preferred to have manual seats in my Mark VIII. And that might well be the next "upgrade"- black manual tracks from a T-bird and aftermarket black seats.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

I want manual seats in my Mark too... I don't like electric seats at all...

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabrio

I'm not in agreement.
.

so you prefer the plastic dash and plastic rear interior pieces over the leather covered dash and rear interior pieces?

and the rubberized paint that peels off that is ALL over the first gen interior that is almost none existant in a second gen?

(lol)

Posted by: Trippen Out

thanks for the info guys. yea ive been reading a lot of threads. the guy that has the 96 lsc. said he fixed the v belt and was even willing to drive it from cape coral to pinellas park to sell it to me when i told him i couldnt get down there. makes me think that the car should be in descent shape if hes willing to risk it from there to here and here back to there and then one last time back. the car looks really nice as well. im just worried about these hard to find parts i keep hearing about.

as for the 95 i finally got a peek at some pictures of it as well. its not to bad it actually has the 3 peice tail wing on it. but the inside looks crap he said if he put a new starter in it. he would let it go for 1350. so far tho the 97 still looks and seams like the best choice but its also the most expensive.

as for tuning the car and getting it dialed in. i would only be doing minor mods to them such as a custom exhaust maybe the ice box intake a better rear gear and maybe a chip. i mostly am looking for one that is a good driver and looks good. right now im working with a beat down bronco so think the 97 is gonna win out. of course i do like the way the gen 1 looks out side much much better then the gen 2s

heres some pics of the 96 $2200 sun/moon roof does not open

and the 97 $2500 passanger door only opens from the inside

the 95 needs a starter $1000 with fixed starter $1350

again thanks for the input. and sorry to anyone who hit this thread with dial up

Posted by: Calabrio

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

so you prefer the plastic dash and plastic rear interior pieces over the leather covered dash and rear interior pieces?

I'm indifferent on the material.
I like the styling of the first generation interior better.

The second generation tries too hard to be too many things. It's too soft. It's too much like a gay pimp with hemorrhoids had a hand in designing it.

Quote:

and the rubberized paint that peels off that is ALL over the first gen interior that is almost none existant in a second gen?

ALMOST.
But you're got me on that point. That rubberized "paint" is one of the reasons I'm pissed off at Ford.

The headlights. That rubberized crap. Those are inexcusable for the technological flagship vehicle of Ford to have. I often cite those things as for why the big-three had such miserable reputations.

If I'd spent about $40k in 1993 on a car and had those stupid problems, I'd be furious. That's why the resale on a Lexus SC300 or 400 are still three times that of the Mark VIII.

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

That black 96 LSC look great!

The white 97 looks 'ok' - I don't like that chrome trim somebody has put on the side.

As for the 95... What a shed!!! Avoid.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

Of those 3 I'd go for the 96 all day long...

Martin, whats the deal with the shed thing...

Posted by: ford nut

The 96 looks nice love those blk/blc LSC's
$2200 is cheap, tough to pass up.
The base gen 2 just looks ugly to me, but if you like it thats what counts.
Pass on the 95, if the guy can't put a starter in to sell a car he must be a tool, who knows what else will go to hell on that car.

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by kustomizingkid

Martin, whats the deal with the shed thing...

It's where the tools go.

Posted by: Trippen Out

yea turns out the owner of the 95 is a punk kid the price is right but after seeing the pics i know why the price is right and if he cant take care of the car im sure the engine has problems as well. i talked to the guy some more on the 96 i think im just gonna take that one and hope for the best on the parts. im not scared to turn my own wrench and im prepaired to pay if i need one of the rare parts. and im seeing 96's all over craigs list in my area so im sure parts shouldnt be that hard to come by ive also already talked the guy down 100 bucks so he will let me have it for 2100 once i get there i may try to take it for an even 2000. who knows again thanks for the input guys and i look forward to learning a lot of stuff from this forum.

by the way why does it say my post has to be approved by a mod. thats kinda lame i think. i leave a post and it doesnt show up for hours. whats the deal. the first 3 post i left didnt do that then all the suddon its like im in time out or something.

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Not sure why your posts are doing that? Never experienced such a thing. Maybe the mods can fix it?

That 96 looks to be a good buy. One of the 'rare' parts that you may want, sometime down the road, is for sale in this thread:

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=54935

Posted by: Trippen Out

yea i saw that. to be honest with ya i dont know what its for. and why is it so rare. thanks for pointing it out. if its really in issue i might go head and just snag it. ive got a 3k budget and if i get the car for 2100 that leaves me room to spend a tad

im not wondering if it was doing that becuase i was a "new memeber" and now im a "full member" becuase it seams to have went away.

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Rare because Ford doesn't have them anymore and they were a 96 specific part. If you have the spare cash, definitely snag them! - be 'good insurance' in the long term.

Posted by: Woof47

After seeing the pics and reading your updates, I would say that the '96 would be my pick of those three. The '95 even looks like it was owned by someone who didn't care about it. Two different style wheels? Steering wheel doesn't match. The '97 doesn't seem too bad except for the gay chrome on the lower doors. I have to agree with Calabrio's assesment of the 97/98 interior style. I also like the exterior lines of the Gen 1 Marks better than the later ones. I believe the '96 interior is the best looking of them all which makes the '96 my favorite even though it has 'rare' parts on it. I've had my '96 LSC for over 4 years and have never regretted getting a '96 instead of a '93-95. Choose the one that appeals to you the most and enjoy it.

Bill

Posted by: Trippen Out

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woof47

After seeing the pics and reading your updates, I would say that the '96 would be my pick of those three. The '95 even looks like it was owned by someone who didn't care about it. Two different style wheels? Steering wheel doesn't match. The '97 doesn't seem too bad except for the gay chrome on the lower doors. I have to agree with Calabrio's assesment of the 97/98 interior style. I also like the exterior lines of the Gen 1 Marks better than the later ones. I believe the '96 interior is the best looking of them all which makes the '96 my favorite even though it has 'rare' parts on it. I've had my '96 LSC for over 4 years and have never regretted getting a '96 instead of a '93-95. Choose the one that appeals to you the most and enjoy it.

Bill

thanks for your input bill. i too love the way the 96 looks and im trying to lock up one of the 2 rare parts ive herd about. it seems to me that the 96 has the interior of a 97-98 but the exterior of the 93-95. which to me is a win.

i cant wait to pick up this car. im so excited thinking about it. that i cant sleep. almost like a kid trying to sleep on christmas eve

Posted by: kustomizingkid

Lol... Every first gen has the same interior, the only changes were wood in mid 94-96 and double din in 95-96....

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trippen Out

i cant wait to pick up this car. im so excited thinking about it. that i cant sleep. almost like a kid trying to sleep on christmas eve

Don't get your hopes up / get too excited until you have seen it, test drove it and have thoroughly checked it out - pretty pics can hide a lot.

Anyway, good luck! Hope the car turns out to be a good 'un!

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trippen Out

it seems to me that the 96 has the interior of a 97-98 but the exterior of the 93-95. which to me is a win.

KK is right the 93-96 has a vastly different interior.
both materials and layout are greatly improved in the 97 and up cars.

Posted by: 98LSC32V

Go for that 96 LSC...

Posted by: Woof47

I agree with you KK that all Gen 1 interiors are the same and that the differences are in the radio, climate control area of the dash. This difference is why I prefer the 96 interior to the earlier ones. After revisiting the pictures posted above, I have a question: I was under the impression that '95/'96 were the same. The '95 pictured here looks like the '93/'94 design with wood. Is this really a '95, not a '95, or a '95 with an early dash?

Bill

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woof47

The '95 pictured here looks like the '93/'94 design with wood. Is this really a '95, not a '95, or a '95 with an early dash?

Bill

good eye Bill, look at the rear bumper cover it's also a 93-94

that probably IS a 94, not a 95

Posted by: The omen

96 lsc ftw!!

Posted by: Trippen Out

so i went and picked up the 96 today. i slapped a bunk tag on it and drove it 132 miles home. the car is so beautiful of course there are minor issues with it but as far as the drivetran and engine and everything it seamed to run perfect. air ride system works nice (will find out of it leaks over night tho) i paid 2100 and then after i paid him he handed me some receipts for a brand new fuel filter installed oil change and some other minor work he just had compeleted on it. so anyway thats the good. heres the bad. it has a check outside lamps error. i cant seam to figure out what is triggering it. all lights appear to be in working order. and the moon roof is jacked up. i think its just off track. i can hear the motor turn for a second then it get stucks and makes a griding slipping sound. who knows and the one that i missed during the test drive or i might gotten it for another 100 less. the rpm gage doesnt work. everything else is perfect and i got a descent average of 25 mpg at 80 mph. over all im very stoked and enjoyed my drive back home very much.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

To fix the tach you need to pull the cluster out, remove the needles, reglue down the face and put it all back together...

Posted by: XLRVIII

I wonder if it's got a bulb conversion in it that causes the oh so common "check exterior lamps".. error.

the only thing is..that usually happens when a non lsc with halogens has been converted TO HIDS.
strange.

Posted by: mmtphoto

I've had my 96 for almost three years, with no problems and like that it is gen 1 and obd II.
I did find a 96 in a junk yard and got the IMRC's. VCRM and the ECU, for any future problems-they are out there, just not as easy to find as the 93-95's. The 96's have the lowest production numbers, but being OBD II makes it possible to do more with it. Good luck with yours, wish I had those wheels.

Posted by: Woof47

Check turn signals, cornering lamps, four bulbs in trunk lid (two per side)between back-up lights and edges, back-up lights, as well as head, parking, and tail and brake lights. Any of these will will trip the 'check external lighting' message. I don't know for sure if the license plate light or the third brake light will cause this but my guess is that they are included as well. Actually eyeball the lights yourself. Don't depend on looking for light reflecting off objects to determine if light works. Example: Putting car in reverse and looking for light on a building or car behind you won't tell you if both back-up lights are working. From the pictures it appears that you have HID housings in the front. I don't know if LSCs were available with halogen lights. Maybe some one else can enlighten us on that matter. Try this: determine if you have HID or halogen headlights. Not trying to be a wise guy, but if you don't know how to tell the difference, ask we'll tell you. Turn on headlights, turn on high beams. If your car has halogen low beams, they should turn off when you turn on high beams. If you have HID low beams, they should stay on when you turn on high beams. If your car was originally equipped with halogens and converted to HIDs, you made need a little work on the wiring.
If all else fails, contact the previous owner and ask him about the lights. any work done on them or problems with them he knew about. SUGGESTION: if you contact previous owner, speak in pleasant tones, tell him how much you love the car, then ask him about the lights.

Hope this helps.
Bill

Posted by: Markviiiedrea

Good thing you went with the 96, much nicer for the money, don’t worry about "hard to find parts", just keep your eye out for them in the junk yards. That’s the exact car I wanted before I got my LSC. My mustang is black and that’s enough. If you really like the Gen II interior find a black one in a junk yard and put it in the 96. All you need is to change some wiring and seat frames.

Posted by: Trippen Out

thanks guys the support on this forum is really good as for the lights i have HID its factory. i think these may be the problem when i turn them on i can kinda hear a cracking sound ive never found cracking sound to be of any good news unless your smoking crack. so for now im only driving during the day till i can get em checked out proper like. as for the hard to find parts. ive already secured me the set of irmc and vrmc or whatever it is paid 300 for em all together and will just keep them stored away. im not aware of any of the other harder to find parts. other than the rpm gage not working i cant really find any other mechanical flaws. there are some cosmetic flaws but nothing a good body and paint job wont fix. which i planned on anyway. if i can get my hands on a digital camera ill try to snap up some good pics