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crossover tube = replaceable?

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Posted by: Myco

i have the manual but im at lunch and dont have it. thought i would give you guys a shot and pick one up from the dealership on the way home if possible. the screw on my crossover is stuck. if tried everything and am either going to need to weld a nut on or create a new hole to fill uop the antifreeze and bleed the line. im wondering if you can replace the entire crossover tube. anyone know?

Posted by: Markviiiedrea

It’s not hard just a little messydoing the tube, but I would try using a chisel to back the plug off first. You can get them new from ford and just use anti-seize when you reinstall it. Don’t drill it, you might get shavings in the cooling system.

Posted by: mrzeee

that cap is a p/n f3ly-8a500-a listing for $28.32 and cost you $21.24 plus shipping

The tube is discontinued and not available new anywhere i looked on the locator....maybe Jamie??

Thank You
Max Zuckerberg
Parts Specialist
Five Star Ford
7100 east Mc Dowell Road
Scottsdale AZ 85257
Direct 1-800-866-1520 ext 236
Fax 1-480-949-8478
parts@fivestarford.com

Posted by: XLRVIII

Crossover tube isn't hard to replace... I had to replace mine on my 95.
Had to pull the alternator to gain access to the hold down bolts, all in all..
Refilling and burping the system took longer than changing the crossover tube.

have you tried an "EZout" tool on the current cap?
might have to drill a small pilot hole, the cap is SUPER THICK so drilling a hole for the EZout wont be and issue.

HELL.. you could drill 2 inches into it and not drill thru the other side.

Posted by: XLRVIII

I've considered drilling and threading a hole all the way THRU the crossover cap, so I dont have to pull the cap out to "bleed air".. just loosen the bolt and let it bleed out.

Kinda like the bleeder bolts on a some Chevy thermostat housings.

Posted by: Markviiiedrea

Think a large bleeder screw off a brake caliper would work? Wouldn’t look as nice but good idea with the bleeder though.

My crossover needs to come out so I can repaint it anyway, Myco is yours pritty rusty?

Posted by: kustomizingkid

I've got 7 good caps that I will sell much much cheaper.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

I've considered drilling and threading a hole all the way THRU the crossover cap, so I dont have to pull the cap out to "bleed air".. just loosen the bolt and let it bleed out.

Kinda like the bleeder bolts on a some Chevy thermostat housings.

Did YOU really think of that?

Posted by: XLRVIII

I SAID... I'd CONSIDERED.

I didn't say "this was tommy's idea".

WTF?

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by kustomizingkid

I've got 7 good caps that I will sell much much cheaper.

DID "YOU" think it's a cool idea to try and steal a sale from Max?
I sure didn't think it was.

Posted by: Icarus

Drilling a hole and putting an even smaller bolt in there to bleed it doesn't make sense to me. I get the idea like the bleeders on the Chevs but then you will have to worry about an even smaller bolt getting stuck/corroded in there over time too, no? Plus as you mentioned the cap is quite thick, so the bleeder screw/bolt would have to go somewhere else to make it the high point in the system?

I'd take the cap off even if you destroy it and get a new one, or weld a nut to it. Spray it down with penetrating oil etc to get it free. I broke three ratchets taking mine off before I said screw it and took the vice grips to it. I used the old one and welded a big nut to it, and repainted it. Works like a charm now. Do use antiseize like the guys mentioned. I've had mine off a couple times since with no problems now...

Posted by: XLRVIII

Oh yea.. they dont have to be "SUPER TIGHT" when you put them back in also

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarus

I get the idea like the bleeders on the Chevs but then you will have to worry about an even smaller bolt getting stuck/corroded in there over time too, no?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarus

Plus as you mentioned the cap is quite thick, so the bleeder screw/bolt would have to go somewhere else to make it the high point in the system?

Posted by: mespock

I've been able to take a vice grips and get the damn cap to come off ... just need a good bite on the cap. It works ...

Oh and I also have replace the tube ... not that bad ...

Posted by: Myco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markviiiedrea

Think a large bleeder screw off a brake caliper would work? Wouldn’t look as nice but good idea with the bleeder though.

My crossover needs to come out so I can repaint it anyway, Myco is yours pritty rusty?

tea. its pickled with rust. ive tried everything and need thid FIXED. i,ve hall a mind its the thermastat. if it was any other car and didnt have a forum full of people telling me that its not the thermastat. im going to order a new crossover and have a nut welded to the top by a friend and put that bad bitch on there. no more scratching my head and pointing. its time to move. ive talked to max and will willlingly give him my business.

Posted by: Icarus

As XLR mentioned, it doesn't need to be tight. The torque is 132-156 lb-in (11-13 lb-ft).

I still had a fun time with mine though even though it had the factory coolant in it when I got it (low kms,) but thats due to time as it's never seen winter (no rust.) Getting the whole pipe out can be fun too...

Posted by: kustomizingkid

I think the main place people run into trouble is they don't clean out the 1/4 drive opening, they put the ratchet in and it rounds the opening out and then you are boned. I pull them at junkyard just to have extras and I always clean the opening first, hit the ratchet in with a hammer and the give it one more wack with the hammer.

Posted by: mespock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myco

ive talked to max and will willlingly give him my business.

Well there should never be any doubt to give Max your business ... I get OEM parts usually cheaper than aftermarket parts at the discount stores.

Or with shipping sometimes about $5 -$10 more .. OEM are better anyway in my opinion.

Max is DaMan ...

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by kustomizingkid

I think the main place people run into trouble is they don't clean out the 1/4 drive opening,.

Or they use a crappy 1/4 inch adapter that not only screws up the square hole, they also break and leave a piece stuck in the hole.

I use a 1/4 hardened 3/8ths adapter and since using it, have never had a problem with rounding the 1/4 inch hole or breaking the adapter.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

I use a Craftsman 1/4" ratchet, and have only failed at getting 1 cap off ever with it.

Posted by: Icarus

I snapped my Snap-on ratchet and a couple Sears ones too.

Posted by: XLRVIII

Anxiously awaiting how Myco came out.
Spoke with him on the phone, he was gonna get an EZout and see if he can coax that plug out..and refil using the "funnel method".

WAKE UP MYCO!
(lol)

Posted by: mrzeee

Thank you all for the kind words.....Brandon you should have taken the tubes as well....now those are worth something!! unless you can make the cobra 148.00 one work.

max

Posted by: kustomizingkid

I've 3 or maybe 4 tubes too... but they are kind a PITA to get out, I actually cracked the block on a junkyard car trying to remove one

Posted by: XLRVIII

mycophiles may need one of those tubes, depending on how much carnage he created last night.

lol

Posted by: The Rev

Broke my Stanley ratchet off in the 1/4 hole, never got it out. I ended up destroying the tube to get it off, hammered it out. KK I thought I was going to crack the block as well.

Definitely not too hard. I did the alternator at the same time so it was easy. I really need to bleed the system again, time to search for the proper way.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

If I ran into a really stuck one again I would pull the alternator and cut the two tabs off....

Posted by: Myco

Didn't get an easy-out. I'd rather just replace the entire thing and stop messing with it. This "cracking the block" thing... huh? WTF kinda engineering mahem have I stumbled upon?

Pm'd customizedkid ...

Posted by: kustomizingkid

I'd spray some penetrating lube down around where the crossover goes into the block, just as preperation ya know.

Posted by: Myco

Turns out Customizedkid was just leading me on. *))(#* tease. Anyone know where to get one? Been to the junk yards here with no luck. I've now been without a car for quite a while 1 week of that waiting on custkid who said he had 3-4 disappear on him. I'm guessing I will have to drill it out if I can't find one.

edit: the nut right now is ruined. I've demolished it trying to get it out.

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myco

edit: the nut right now is ruined. I've demolished it trying to get it out.

Pipe wrench will get that cap off, I'm certain of it!!!

Posted by: Myco

Ill try again with a pipe wrench after work.

Posted by: Myco

Ok, got an easy out. ( screw extractor is what 'this' is called at sears ) Not exactly what tommy described but functionally the same thing. Got it in there and it bit pretty well. I still couldn't get the damn thing off though. Since it was leaking at the point where it goes into the engine I pulled the crossover off.

Now I have it off with 2 different size easy outs and a pipe wrench. I'm going to need a vice of some sort to hammer this thing in and get the easy out to bite. If you look at the side of the pipe where the screw goes in (at the base) you see a spot of brass (?) that looks shinny. Worried this might be stress related and don't want to crack the pipe.

I'll torch it down. Put ice on top and try the easy out. Then the pipe wrench. After that I'm back to square one.

Here are some pics.

Where it was leaking on the right side.

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

I'd forget it now - you've chewed up the top of the pipe itself. Find another crossover in good condition.

Posted by: catmech

yeah and that braise looks cracked to me. get another crossover.

Posted by: Myco

Quote:

Originally Posted by catmech

yeah and that braise looks cracked to me. get another crossover.

have any idea where to find one? been looking.

Posted by: catmech

Do Have A Gen1 Or A Gen2? Either Way Contact Jamie98lsc. He Should Be Able To Hook You Up At A Decent Price.

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Ya, Jamie might have some good ones!

Posted by: catmech

If Not I Think There Is A Guy On Lod Selling A Gen 2 Crossover, Granted If You Have A Gen2.

Posted by: catmech

My Bad, That Is You Trying To Buy One.

Posted by: Myco

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93' Blue on blue

Ya, Jamie might have some good ones!

Just left a message for him.

Posted by: catmech

I Did Too Pleading Your Case.

Posted by: Myco

Quote:

Originally Posted by catmech

I Did Too Pleading Your Case.

good man.

Posted by: mmtphoto

FWIW, I drilled a hole in mine and tapped it, with someone standing by with a magnet to catch the metal debris, then just put a bolt in-easy job, comes off with a wrench now instead of the lame 1/4 inch drive that was stripped when I got it.

Same engineer who put the IAC near the firewall on Gen 1's thought of that setup.

Posted by: jamie97lsc

we just took apart a 97 engine that had a bent rod, my brother in law pulled the intake and top half off the motor, i will stop at my shop after work tomorrow and check to see how the cross over pipe is, i honestly dont know the condition, but i'm sure its a good one, i will let you know what i find out.

Posted by: Myco

awesome. thanks. ill paypal you the minute you get your hot little hans on it.

Posted by: Myco

Ok, replaced the tube. Burped the car. Still overheating.

Either:

A. Not entirely burped. When it overheats the needle goes up, then down, then back up, then back down. Gradually climbing. It does not go up and stay up.

B. Clogged radiator.
C. Bad water pump.
D. Blown headgasket. ( there is a tick from the engine sometimes)

History is: Bought the car in July (end of summer) last year. On the couple hot days I had it it did overheat a couple times (nothing majory). Then I put it up on stands for a couple weeks while I redid the suspension. Afterwards it never overheated again until this summer when It got hot again.

Another thing to note is that when I put in the antifreeze through the burp valve with the funnel I could see dirty brown fluid coming up into the new antifreeze that was in the funnel. Indicating bad/clogged radiator??

Waiting for the car to cool again to try to burp it again. I burped it yesterday where it did burp. Then tried it again this morning with no results. Now going to try again.

suggestions?

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Sounds like you still have air in your system.

Clogged alternator.

I have no idea what you are on about, there.

Posted by: Myco

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93' Blue on blue

Sounds like you still have air in your system.

Clogged alternator.

I have no idea what you are on about, there.

You and me both. lol *fixed*I

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Haha... That's better!

Some of the best tips I've found are from XLRVIII, in this thread:

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/sho...hlight=coolant

Posted by: Myco

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93' Blue on blue

Haha... That's better!

Some of the best tips I've found are from XLRVIII, in this thread:

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/sho...hlight=coolant

Yea, we decided last night that after an burp on an incline (or jacked up) the radiator would be best. He was pushin for a pump but I'll do the radiator first and since I have the thermastat already I'll do that while at it.

Posted by: Myco

Jacked the front end up and got a bit more radiator fluid in but with no luck. going to buy a radiator.

Posted by: Myco

I decided to go ahead and change out the thermostat. When I pulled out the old one. It was stock. The holes in it that allow fluid and air bubbles to move from one side to the other were clogged. I put in a new one and when I put in the fluid one side was leaking. I got under to torque it down a bit and the side of the thermostat housing cracked. Now I have to wait for the ford dealership to open tomorrow to put a new one in. So much more work to get that entire housing off.

Posted by: jamie97lsc

i have housings if ford cant get them. 90% cant be replaced from ford so who knows about the housings, but i do have some for a last resort.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

Ouch... sucks to crack one... what a PITA...

Posted by: Myco

yea got it replaced almost entirely still gotta get a couple clamps on. found out when i torqued it down the seal had fallen on the wrong place..60$ to ford

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myco

yea got it replaced almost entirely still gotta get a couple clamps on. found out when i torqued it down the seal had fallen on the wrong place..60$ to ford

I wish you would call me "when" you have problems, rather than after you have broken stuff.

when you asked "how tight" those bolts should be, you were told "dont kill" them they dont have to be super tight...and you said "about as tight as the spark plugs".
God I hope your plugs aren't "as tight" as you tried to make the thermostat housing

Had you called me when it leaked I could have told you the oring was not in the right place, at that point you would have only needed a new oring, not the entire thermostat housing.

Posted by: Myco

ok the radiator has been replaced. i just drove it on the freeway and it overheated again. i havent stayed on the freeway to see if it will go over the first white line. when it overheats it jumps up once right between the white line and middle and the next jump is right below (touching) the white line. i got off the freeway and kept driving on service roads. temp went back to normal. i decide to grab a bite after about 5 miles and as i stop tp make a u-turn the temp needs goes up and down like there is an airpocket.

ill burp it again tomorrow morning and then get a compression check done. i cant think of anythink else besides the cap, loose belt, bad oil pump. dunno

Posted by: kustomizingkid

One of two things is wrong.

1. Not Burped Correctly

2. Smoke the head Gaskets

Posted by: Myco

Quote:

Originally Posted by kustomizingkid

One of two things is wrong.

1. Not Burped Correctly

2. Smoke the head Gaskets

You need to write a

ing EDU: on how to burp. Apparently you are the master of it. I just heard from a guy on another forum to leave the crossover cap off overnight as well as the overflow cap and then refill in the morning.

Things I thought I'd said but maybe not.

I am not loosing any coolant. None that I can tell.
No coolant is overflowing in the reservoir.
There is no particulars in the coolant. Even the old radiator looked clean.
There is no foam in the coolant.
This problem has gotten better. At first it would overheat after 5 miles. Now it overheats (severely) only when load is put on it.

None of those say that the headgasket is good though.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

Easy

dude...

The MOST important part is to geta funnel that is the right size so it screws into the crossover but not fall out or restrict flow...

Lift the front of the car up about a foot...

Take of both caps and start filling through the crossover until the level is full in the reservoir

Put reservoir cap on

Continue Filling until the crossover is FULL and that includes the funnel

Then start the car and just let it run...

All sorts of bubbles will come out and just let it run until they stop, then I'd just let it sit and cool down and run it again...

If that don't work your head gaskets are boned...

Posted by: Myco

Quote:

Originally Posted by kustomizingkid

Easy

Sorry, didn't mean to be edgy.

Yea, I've done this. "all kinds of bubbles" = nope.

edit: To note though. I always kept the radiator at "cold fill line" Not full to the top.

Posted by: mespock

Just a stupid thought ... did you put the new T-stat in the correct way? If you have a manual that you are following the image in the manual is up side down from the way that you are looking at it.

Posted by: Calabrio

If you've given up on the idea of removing that cap, I'd suggest you hit the junk yards, or call them. Check www.car-part.com

Posted by: Myco

I got the entire crossover replaced. Yea, the thermostat is in the correct way.

Ohhh... forgot to mention I had a pressure check done on the cooling system and it checked out fine.

Posted by: Myco

screw it... as long as I'm throwing money at the problem I'm going to get a water pump.

Posted by: Myco

Question: I flashed the ECU to a 98 mark when i bought the car. Could that have caused this issue?

Posted by: kustomizingkid

I'll just post it here again that No; flashing the comp to a 98 won't do anything to make it overheat...

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myco

Question: I flashed the ECU to a 98 mark when i bought the car. Could that have caused this issue?

Not considering you had this problem before you flashed the ecu.
You'd said it did this since you first got it.

IF you have a doubt, return the stock tune to the car..if your not confident in doing this, get with me and I'll help you sort that part out.. easy.

Posted by: The Rev

I got an 18mm nut welded to the crossover cap. My car is still getting hot, but since replacing the fan it just gets to the 'o' and comes back down a little. I'll try burping and re-post.

I'm wondering why you're overheating on the highway, that worries me. I would never overheat on the highway with the bad fan, only in traffic.

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rev

I'm wondering why you're overheating on the highway, that worries me. I would never overheat on the highway with the bad fan, only in traffic.

I agree, "all signs point to bad stuff".

Posted by: The Rev

Yeah XLR, idk. I finally understand the burping procedure. Everytime I opened the cap there was liquid right there and I didn't want it to leak, so I left it. Now I just ran it for a few minutes with the cap off, it was leaking a little, but every 20 seconds or so a bubble would come up. I agree with KK though, jack the car up and get a funnel that'll screw in (will search to find XLR's he posted not too long ago, I could use it now

) and fill the funnel so that way when the bubbles escape, it sucks in more coolant.

Posted by: ford nut

Myco, pull your plugs look for any sign of anti-freeze.
If you have a bad head gasket you will see/smell anti-freeze on the plug.

Posted by: XLRVIII

'nut, he isn't loosing any coolant.

what you describe would indicate a failed headgasket, but his scenario could be a cracked head, or a very minor leak in he headgasket that is only comprimised by the high pressure of combustion 160-180PSI

the cooling system is 15ish PSI?

So the leak may be combustion gases going FROM the cylinder into the cooling system due to the 160-180PSI combustion pressures.

could be the 15ish PSI from the cooling system isn't pushing coolant back into the cylinder because the leak isn't "that bad".

My SVO mustang did this when I ran 27+PSI boost, it cracked the head.. but wasn't loosing or swapping any fluids.
Only combustion gases from the combustion stroke were entering the cooling system.

The problem was found by using a dye test that confirmed combustion gases in the cooling system, pulled the head and had it checked and it was indeed cracked.

Posted by: ford nut

I know what your sayin Tommy.
Myco said he had the coolent system pressure tested too.

If he had a leak somewere it should have been found during the pressure test.
That includes a head gasket.

But I am old school....I would still pull the plugs and have a look see.

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford nut

I know what your sayin Tommy.
Myco said he had the coolent system pressure tested too.

If he had a leak somewere it should have been found during the pressure test.
That includes a head gasket.

how much pressure do you think the "test" the cooling system with?
15-20PSI?

that's ALONG way from 160-180PSI that you find inside the combustion chamber.

like I said, 15ish lbs might not be enough to open the leak, where 160-180LBS PSI inside the combustion chamber could very well expose a cracked head, cylinder or headgasket.

Posted by: Myco

Update: Found the problem. Already called Tommy and told him the good news.

Got home today and decided to take a look under the hood and check out the coolant level. During inspection I noticed (out of the corner of my eye) before closing the hood the very bottom of the engine in the front there was something wet looking on the lip. Thought, "that's odd" and grabbed the light to stick down there. Then I saw a single drip of something had made it to the ground. It appeared something was leaking. Took a look under the water pump and bam. Big giant green streak coming out the bottom. Just to let you guys know. This was not there before. If it was it was nothing of this magnitude.

So there ya have it. Bad water pump. I'm one of the (relatively) lucky few. :yay:

BTW: just for the next guy who reads this thread. This week I have been sitting in 95+ heat traffic for upwards of 30 minutes and also went on the highway for over 10 miles and thought the problem fixed as it didn't overheat. I hadn't completely written it off but things were definitely getting better and attributed the results to the car finally burping itself. Like I said above. The water pump didn't show a leak before or all during this process (of over a month).

Note: There is a litmus test like talked about in this thread. Go to a mechanic shop and they will probably give you it free. I'd gotten one but hadn't used it as my coolant has been swapped twice in the last 2 weeks.

Posted by: Myco

Update. Still overheating on the freeway. The only thing left is the headgasket and I got a compression tester just for kicks to check it out.

When I changed the thermostat I put in one from orielly's. It's a 190 degree thermostat and I have my heater core jumped ( so I'm missing a bit of coolant). With that said. Yesterday I got on the freeway for the first time since the pump has been put in. The engine was hot as I'd been driving all day and once I got on the freeway after 5 miles the temp jumped up to almost touching the first line past normal. I saw it... cussed a bit and since it was rush hour started slowing down because of traffic. The temp went back to normal. Since there was no way to get off the freeway at that point I got over a couple lanes and drove another 3 miles at 60mph and the temp stayed normal.

I'm going to go jump on the freeway in a bit and drive and see what happens. Also, I will do the litmus test (I got one of those) and a compression test. The headgasket is the only thing it could be unless my car is running a bit hotter b/c of the thermostat and missing coolant. This is wishfull thinking though. Soo.. prob. in the market for another engine.

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myco

unless my car is running a bit hotter b/c of the thermostat

Impossible, the system simply doesnt work or respond that way.

"all signs point to" : suckage, sorry to say

Posted by: 98LSC32V

How many miles on the motor?

Posted by: XLRVIII

The car has had this problem since he got it.
He's chased it all thru the cooling system...
the motor has gotten hot many many times, and very likely hotter than the gauge ever displayed, due to the sensors location.

Posted by: Myco

This morning I burped it. Warmed the car up... took off overflow cap... opened crossover. Closed overflow cap... filled via crossover... quite a bit.

Drove 45miles on the freeway without a problem. Today was 99degrees outside (google temp not the cars). Worked like a charm. Yay.