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Can anyone explain these decisions?

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Posted by: Chooch

A number in the automotive press have repeatedly written that the DEW-98 based LS will go the way of the mastodons and be replaced in 2006 or so by something - what? - based on the Mazda 6 platform. I am absolutely dying of curiosity about several questions that I hope someone knowledgeable can answer:

1. Has Ford officially confirmed this, or is it rumor and speculation?

2. After all the money spent developing the DEW98 platform in the first place, only 3 cars were ever built on it - the Jag S, the LS and T-Bird, right? Why so few variants? I understand 2005 is the last year for the T-bird. And, if the LS is killed in 06, why such a short life for the platform?

3. The DEW98 platform is often said to be "too expensive". Huh? On a $35000 car? Compared to what? Is there any basis to this?

4. The LS platform was widely praised for its stiffness. Did Lincoln ever contemplate a convertible, coupe or estate wagon variant of the LS?

5. How does the 4.6 mod motor compare to the 4.0 AJ motor in the LS? Is one better than the other? Why? Is one less expensive to produce? Is one heavier than the other? More reliable? What is the reason for having two so similar displacement motors in the corporate lineup? And mainly, would the 4.6 mod motor have made the DEW98 platform more cost-effective?

I look forward to any information anyone can contribute.

Posted by: eL eS

welcome! check this thread it may answer some of your questions. This has long been ponder by us all. Why, why, why? I wish someone from the top would issue a statement.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=4263

Posted by: Dutch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chooch

A number in the automotive press have repeatedly written that the DEW-98 based LS will go the way of the mastodons and be replaced in 2006 or so by something - what? - based on the Mazda 6 platform. I am absolutely dying of curiosity about several questions that I hope someone knowledgeable can answer:

1. Has Ford officially confirmed this, or is it rumor and speculation?

2. After all the money spent developing the DEW98 platform in the first place, only 3 cars were ever built on it - the Jag S, the LS and T-Bird, right? Why so few variants? I understand 2005 is the last year for the T-bird. And, if the LS is killed in 06, why such a short life for the platform?

3. The DEW98 platform is often said to be "too expensive". Huh? On a $35000 car? Compared to what? Is there any basis to this?

4. The LS platform was widely praised for its stiffness. Did Lincoln ever contemplate a convertible, coupe or estate wagon variant of the LS?

5. How does the 4.6 mod motor compare to the 4.0 AJ motor in the LS? Is one better than the other? Why? Is one less expensive to produce? Is one heavier than the other? More reliable? What is the reason for having two so similar displacement motors in the corporate lineup? And mainly, would the 4.6 mod motor have made the DEW98 platform more cost-effective?

I look forward to any information anyone can contribute.

1. I believe it's false Everything I've read indicates the LS will be replaced by a new LS in '08 that will be based on the same Volvo platform as the Ford 500. It will be FWD/AWD. The '06 car based on the Mazda 6 is the Lincoln Zephyr. It will be cheaper than the LS and aimed at the near-luxury segment (BMW 3, Mercedes C, etc.).

2. They say price.

3. I can't imagine price is the real reason. Even if it is, the DEW98 platform is outstanding - I've never seen a bad word about it in the automotive press. Lincoln should be able to build a car around it they could sell for enough money to be profitable. I think the LS's only problems are the small engine compartment, too-conservative (but nice) styling, and quality.

4. I'm sure not, because Lincoln hasn't ever had an estate or wagon, and hasn't had a convertible in - what - 40 years? The Thunderbird is the convertible LS (with no back seat, which was a poor decision to say the least).

5. The 3.9L is all aluminum - block and heads. I'm 99% sure the 4.6L is iron block/aluminum heads (except in Mustang Cobras), so it would be alot heavier. It is also cheaper. It's also not nearly as smooth and refined, nor do I believe it offers as flat a torque curve as the LS. It also doesn't rev as high as the 3.9L. I've driven alot of 4.6L Mustangs, but never owned one. Based on my experience, the 4.6L isn't a good enough engine to compete in this segment - due largely to NVH.

Finally, I don't think the 4.6L will fit in the LS, at least not without major surgery and a new hood. But, they put one in the One Lap of America LS, so it can be done.

Posted by: SurfjaxLS

The one lap of america car had many problems with overheating. The engine also didn't fit right (too tall), the scoop they had to put on looks like crap to me. They had to pull another engine swap inbetween two races.

Posted by: 99 KOBRA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

It doesn't sound like you've driven a Cobra.

Posted by: Dutch

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99 KOBRA

It doesn't sound like you've driven a Cobra.

No, never have. The DOHC 4.6L may be a different story. But, with those gigantic heads, the fitment problem will be that much worse.

Posted by: brentalan

I disagree on the 2V 4.6 being unrefined. I think it's real smooth in the Town Car/Grand Marquis/Crown Vic. Don't forget the the Mustangs with that engine were based on a 1979 Fairmont Chassis. You are feeling the weakness of that.

Posted by: Dutch

Quote:

Originally Posted by brentalan

I disagree on the 2V 4.6 being unrefined. I think it's real smooth in the Town Car/Grand Marquis/Crown Vic. Don't forget the the Mustangs with that engine were based on a 1979 Fairmont Chassis. You are feeling the weakness of that.

I'm not calling it unrefined, just saying it's not as refined as the 3.9L and not refined enough to compete in a $40k car. It's certainly not a bad engine, and there's nothing wrong with it for most applications, but it just isn't up to the level of refinement you'd expect at that price level (a price where the DEW98 is profitable).

Posted by: Quik LS

the 4.6L does fit - the OLOA LS had to cut the hood to fit the SuperCharger under. The 3.9L is the largest engine that fits in the engine bay from loading underneath the car - which is the way the build the car in the plant. You can get the 4.6L in but will have to go in from the top like we would in a DIY garage.

Posted by: Patrick

The Zephyr is very definitely the Ford 500.

Posted by: Dutch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

The Zephyr is very definitely the Ford 500.

No, Zephyr is a Mazda6. Ford 500 is a Volvo.

Posted by: Kelleyo

Think how sweet it would have been if Lincoln had invested the money that was spent on the Tbird back into the LS instead?

The right engine for the LS HIPO version would have been the Jag Stype R motor...

I love my LS (second one) but that new STS V is starting to make my mouth water. Lincoln is in "big heap o trouble" if all they are going to offer is rebadged Fords, Mazda's, Volvo's, and Pickup trucks.

Thinking about what could have been makes me sick...

Posted by: gijoe

I think the dew98 platform was used in the 05 mustang.

Posted by: Dutch

Yes - at least that's how it started out. They had to reconfigure some parts to make it cheaper (MacPherson struts, for example). Then they enlarged the engine compartment. Then they strengthened it to withstand Cobra levels of torque. By the time they finished, they basically had an all-new platform, the S197. The only remaining commonality is the floor pan, I believe.

Posted by: Quik LS

right - only the floorpan. Ford could not get to a low enough price point needed for the Mustang by using the DEW98 chassis.

http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/110402.html

Quote:

The Mustang platform shares its roots with the Lincoln LS and Jaguar S-Type (DEW98), but is far enough removed for Ford personnel to stubbornly refer to it as "unique." Gone is DEW98's expensive aluminum-intensive suspension (unequal length control arms in front and a fully independent multi-link rear unit on an isolated subframe). In its place sit far more economical MacPherson front struts with "reverse-L" lower control arms and a three-link solid axle with coil springs. A retrograde step? Perhaps, but understandable given the Mustang's under-$20,000 starting price–about $14,000 less than a base Lincoln LS.

Posted by: kleetus

I think I'm convinced... Ford can't build a decent car to save their life, give them a truck to play with and they'll beat your brains out with it. I also think the upper managment and business unit need an enema too.

This isn't even funny anymore.