Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums

(This is the forums archive - If you want to get back to the main site simply click the banner above and you will be taken to our homepage.)

Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums is the Ultimate Online Resource for Owners and Enthusiasts of American Luxury Cars. Feel free to browse through our archive - but make sure you make it back to our main site - Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums

Cadillac XLR : Cadillac CTS : Cadillac : 2005 Cadillac STS : Cadillac Forums : 2000 Lincoln LS : Lincoln Mark VIII : Lincoln Mark VII : Car Wax
Lincoln Town Car : Lincoln Air Suspension : Lincoln Continental : Lemon Law : Do It Yourself Car Repair : Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums : Mesothelioma

Back to the Archive Main Page

Pages: 1

Front end alignment

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: warthog5

Reading some other threads I've seen it said that the rack & pinion needed to be replaced in order to get the steering wheel to return to center after making a turn.

Yet I saw nothing as to the specks that the alignment was.

Mine does not return. It also has the caster at 0. Putting some caster in it should make it return.

Any input?

Here is the printout on mine after front end rebuild and alignment.

Posted by: slowmkviii

I think you want + caster if I can find my specs. wich are not the stock ones
I will post them

Posted by: Blenderhead

Without any castor, your wheel won't return to center. The steering also probably feels kind of light and darty on the highway, right?

The more castor you put into the car, the heavier the steering will feel at speed and the faster the wheel will return straight. Whenever I do an alignment on my own car, I like to set the castor slightly higher than the top end of the factory specs. Usually on the MN12s, you can go another 1.5 degrees and still have plenty of room to get the camber and toe back in specs. I haven't messed with the alignment on my lincoln yet, so I don't know if there will be any difference, but since the suspension geometry is the same, it should be the same.

Posted by: shiryu0

your caster should be at 5.5 (+/- .75)............

Posted by: unity

The only place I get alignments done now is at a stealership. After what has happened to mine and what Jamie went through (I think it was him).

Posted by: IllinoisMarkVIII

Here are some specs I found on Tccoa for alignment:

Aggressive handling four wheel alignment settings

NOTE: Adverse tire wear is not an issue with these settings as
they are within the outer edge of the factory ranges.
These settings can be used for all the MN12 years and models.

Front Camber -1.3* Range min -1.3............+0.3 max

Front Caster +5.5* Range min +4.8............+6.3 max

Front Toe -0.03* Range min -0.03........+0.10 max

Rear Camber -1.0* Range min -1.0.........+0.0 max

Rear Toe -0.03* Range min -0.03......+0.19 max

*Preferred settings for aggressive handling

ALIGNMENT NOTES:

Rear camber adjustment is on the upper arm (inside bolt turns eccentric bushing)

Rear toe adjustment is on the lower arm (eccentric washer)

Front caster adjustment is on the strut rod (adjust length through frame)

Front camber adjustment is on the lower arm (eccentric washer)

Front toe adjustment is on the tie rods (adjust length)

Posted by: unity

Thanks for those. I will print!

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

I bet mine needs doing properly too. Had it done at Meineke after i did uppers and lowers etc. - I gave them the specs, told them i wanted ALL wheels doing...well, they only did front (said rear was ok... BS) Few weeks later i checked under front and NOTHING had moved from when i put it all together and had marked everything. Either im great (haha, nope) or they were BS ing liars! Plus, my front wheels aren't central in wheel wells, or same side to side.

So, don't go to Meineke, Tire Kingdom or any of those other junky 'quick service' shops!

Gonna get one of those alignment tools like billcu has and do it myself in future.

Rant over.

Posted by: warthog5

Quote:

The steering also probably feels kind of light and darty on the highway, right?

Yep I had it out on the highway today where I could stretch it out a little.

That's exactlu what I figured. I stick with the car in the shop and watch them, but the caster I was sure what it should have been.

I can see right know that a caster adjustment is going to have everything else out of wack making him work more. That's why he didn't touch it.

Quote:

Few weeks later i checked under front and NOTHING had moved from when i put it all together and had marked everything. Either im great (haha, nope) or they were BS ing liars! Plus, my front wheels aren't central in wheel wells, or same side to side.

Mine was extremely close when I put it back together. Yep I marked'em.

Posted by: unity

"Plus, my front wheels aren't central in wheel wells, or same side to side."

Thats the one thing I noticed. I swear most of these places have the wrong specs. Mine is far enough back to get occasional run on the liner.

Posted by: warthog5

Dang!

That don't sound good at all.

I just did a scan of the factory manual. I left it large on purpose, so you could read it easier.

So Blenderhead are you saying to put 5.5 + 1.5 = 7deg of caster?

Posted by: Blenderhead

On both my 89 and 91 cougars I run the castor at 6.5 degrees. I just said you COULD run up to 7 degrees and still be able to get the camber and toe in spec. If you go too far with the castor, you will run out of adjustment for the camber. Castor itself isn't going to cause any kind of tire wear, provided camber and toe are within spec. Also as you increase the castor, the steering requires more effort around town, but makes the car more stable on the highway. Since I tend to do a lot of highway driving, and I tend to drive fast, increasing the castor makes my car much more predictable on the highway.

And warthog, you are correct that adjusting the castor will throw everything else off. Castor always needs to be adjusted first, then camber, then toe needs to be adjusted last. Whoever did your alignment probably #1, didn't feel like wasting all this time on your car (he gets paid the same whether he makes 1 adjustment or 10) and #2 is used to generic FWD econoboxes, most of which only have an adjustment for toe and nothing else on the front end.

Posted by: warthog5

10-4 I have several checkups on the alignment.

It will be back over there in the morning and I will be under the car with him.

Thanks much for your help.

Posted by: Speed Demon

Do these settings work well with the 1.5 drop or do I need to start searching around? I went through a set of tires yearly with my wagon due to poor alignments and don't want to repeat it with the mark.

Posted by: Blenderhead

The alignment specs should be the same with the 1.5" drop, as long as you get it aligned after lowering the car, cause if you get it aligned first, then once it is lowered, the control arms will move and the camber measurement will be off. The castor measurement is the same regardless of suspension travel so that shouldn't be an issue. The only other thing that might present a problem is how the suspension moves when everything is 1.5" lower. At stock height, there is very little camber change as the suspension moves up and down through its arc. Once you get out of that normal range, the amount of camber change for the same amount of suspension travel could be much higher. This wouldn't have any effect as you are just cruising down a smooth road, since the suspension wouldn't be moving very much, but on a bumpy road, as the suspension bounces around, it could be enough to cause excessive wear on the edges of the tires. Unfortunately the only way to really find out whether this is going to be a problem or not is to do it and see what happens. I'd say set everything up, making sure the camber measurement is dead center, and check the tires after 3000 miles to see if they are wearing unevenly. If they aren't, leave them on for another 3000 and check again. If it takes more than 6000 miles for you to notice anything, then you'll be fine, just rotate your tires as needed. If you notice it before 6000, you'll need to make an adjustment to the camber to compensate. Which way you would go would depend on which side of the tire is wearing out faster. If the outside is wearing faster, you need more camber. If the inside is wearing faster, you need less camber. Also remember, when adjusting camber, you will also have to re-adjust the toe.

Posted by: jamie97lsc

yup. unity is right, i almost knocked the guy out behind the counter at tire kingdom when they did this to my car...

and this is my other mark VIII the way it should look...

needless to say after 2 attempts letting them try and get it right, the 3rd time i went back i was ready to either fight some fat loser that said oh well there is nothing we can do, or get my money back, i got my money back and a few customers in the lobby im sure, will never go back there either. i ended up going to the ford dealer and had it fixed and driving mint the same day i dropped it off with them. should have gone to ford in the first place.

Posted by: warthog5

OK Back from the alignment shop. No changes were made. Something about the screen/printing of the last print out? Eric at the shop said it was quirky when printing.

Here it is and is in spec. - Well almost. The RF is out by 1.1deg. Still it does have some caster in it. I thought it had none from the other print out. I didn't have him make any changes. I'll do that after the rack change. He said that he likes to keep 1 full degree more in the RF due to the way we have the crowns in the roads here.

It appears that as mentioned in other threads that the Rack is worn/tight or whatever? Anyway Eric brought that up without me mentioning it also.

So it looks like a new/remanufactured Rack is in store.

Posted by: unity

$150 for a rack, no core return

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MARK-...mZ110060084265

But the racks dont usually fail on these cars. Seems that Ford knew how to make a decent rack. Make sure everything else has been eliminated first.

Posted by: warthog5

Hmmmm! Mine is a '98 LSC. Are 1st and 2nd gen racks the same?

RockAuto

A-1 CARDONE Part # 22236 = $135 + core

ACDELCO Part # 3618510 = $142 + core