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true dual exhaust

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Posted by: wsmit4

o.k i'm new to the lvc family, so please bare with me.I own a 1995 mark viii. 114000 miles.I would like to have some help in picking a exhaust muffler and tips. I do not want something to loud that will invade my cabin, but a nice throaty tone on the outside that says quality. please help! any sound clips that you guys can direct me to will be extremely helpful.

Posted by: wsmit4

hello, i understand that the stock 4.6 L fords and not a true dual exhaust because only one pipe runs from the engine. MY QUESTION IS WILL CHANGING THE MUFFLER REALLY GIVE ME A SATISFACTORY SOUND AND NOTICEABLE PULLING POWER? I REALLY DON'T WANT TO SPEND A LOT ON PLACING A TRUE DUAL EXHAUST.

Posted by: Calabrio

There is SO MUCH discussion on that topic here already, I have to recommend you do some research with the search function first. Many of us have posted pictures, videos, and discussed at length, or exhaust systems.

Posted by: NHLSV8

a true dual exhaust is bad for FI engines. why that term still lives on I'll never know. the closest you can get with out compromising performance is an offroad x pipe with straight pipe from there. You need to let the pressure equalize in these motors with either an H, X, or Y pipe. Yes you can still see gains from doing an exhaust but just like anything else its all about the weakest link. Change your muflers only, you hear it and thats about it. Change your cats, and exhaust, you might see some gain in track time, but to do an exhaust right, you need to swap everything from the heads out the back end of the car. And like doing an intake without and exhaust, you wont see max gains from your exhaust till you do other modification elsewhere. Your engine breathes...... the more you breath in the more you need to breath out. If you only breath in X you dont need to breath out X^4. Balance is key!

Think of exhaust like Weed.... "its a gateway drug." Yeah you get a minor high, but it only leads to freeing up the rest of the engines potential. And once you start with one, you have to do the rest. You may even justify it to yourself byu saying "I spent all this on an exhaust, i clearly need a kenny bell SC to make that investment in my exhaust worth the money."

Posted by: MatthewDavid

I had to jump this one... Weed is like exhaust??!?!!?... whah?... that's a funny one... hehehee... but thing about it is when you breathe in weed it doesn't come out the same way.. you don't fart out a big cloud... I mean just think of all the stoners that would be out there tryin to suck butt... sorry... I'm a big advocate on the decriminalization of pot... and it's not a gateway drug... I'm sure most people drink alcohol before they smoke pot... it was Big Ol' Ronnie Reagan that got that term stuck in our heads.... and if you're curious you're gonna try everything else regardless if you smoke pot or not... I never figured out why it's illegal and so many things that are worse aren't... like salvia?...

but yeah he's right about the exhaust part... I don't really know that much about it but from what I've gathered... if you do really any mods tryin to get any extra horsies you should do a lot that way you're really gettin your moneys worth... changing the mufflers would make it sound different if that's all youre goin for... I'm sure others are gonna chime in... but I if I recall the magnaflows are the nicer of the brands for sound... but I could be wrong...

Posted by: Scorpio1118_2000

Go to youtube and search lincoln that site should have all the sounds you need.

Posted by: XLRVIII

The first thing I did to my 95 was put a 100% true dual exhaust on it.
it was loud, rude obnoxious.. and one person told me that it sounded like a "hay hauling pick up truck".

now for the performance aspect.
Stock my car went 15.3 in the 1/4.. with the true duals it went 15.3 in the 1/4.

Posted by: unity

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

The first thing I did to my 95 was put a 100% true dual exhaust on it.
it was loud, rude obnoxious.. and one person told me that it sounded like a "hay hauling pick up truck".

now for the performance aspect.
Stock my car went 15.3 in the 1/4.. with the true duals it went 15.3 in the 1/4.

Ouch.

Posted by: bryantaylor

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

now for the performance aspect.
Stock my car went 15.3 in the 1/4.. with the true duals it went 15.3 in the 1/4.

should have went with LMS, you would have gained almost a 1/2 second

Posted by: Ricksquickviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

your not for real are u? what kind of setup did have done?

Posted by: chickenviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewDavid

PREACH!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

^ silly stoners!

Posted by: chickenviii

who me?!!

Posted by: NHLSV8

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

got a picture of this true dual set up?

people call the xpipe straight pipe true duals and its not. True duals would have headers and pipes going straight back to the rear. if you ran true duals and didnt see any gain, I would be surprised...... should have lost power

Posted by: TDUB

Just a question..... Why in you pov is salvia worse than weed?

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickenviii

PREACH!!!!!!!!!!

I won back to back to back bracket championships three years in a row, and every trip I made to the track I had a "safety meeting" on the ride there.

Ssssshhhh dont tell anyone, it's bad enough they got beat three years in a row by "some old guy in a lincoln".. they'd really be pissed if they found out it was "some old stoned guy in a lincoln"..

LMAO!

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDUB

Just a question..... Why in you pov is salvia worse than weed?

because it's physically impossible to ingest enough marijuana to overdose, whereas it's not terribly hard to get a fatal dose of salvia.

you would have to smoke a metric ton of marijuana to get enough THC into your system to reach a "fatal level".

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHLSV8

WTF? having a true dual exhaust doesnt require a set of headers.
True dual exhaust is two seperate exhaust pipes that do not crossover or in any way "join" exhaust gases from one side of the motor with the other.

I had two individual pipes, one drivers side and one passenger side.
TRUE DUAL EXHAUST <--not rocket science there.

Then I added an Xpipe {not an LMS xpipe) and the car ran MUCH better and picked up between .3-.4 in the 1/4 mile.

Then I ditched the blowmasters and got some REAL MUFFERS aka Magnaflows and enjoyed a very nice sounding exhaust.

I've had 2-1-2 exhaust
I've had 2-2 exhaust
I've had 2-X-2 exhaust

the last sounded best and performed the best

Posted by: warthog5

Quote:

blowmasters

HeHe From that I take it you don't / didn't like them.

Posted by: unity

Quote:

Originally Posted by warthog5

HeHe From that I take it you don't / didn't like them.

I don't think anyone does.

Posted by: Jeffguy11

i had flowmasters installed on my car and chopped them off the same night. no joke

Posted by: MatthewDavid

Yeah totally... my doctor actually recommended it for my migraines and stomach ulcer... since then hardly notice the ulcer... and it helps the migraines alot... but yeah it's physically impossible to OD... but my a friend of mine took one hit of salvia and almost drove his car into a pole... had to stop lie down in the grass on the side of the road and couldn't get up till the cops came to see what was going on... and they didn't do anything... CAUSE IT"S LEGAL!?!?... he said it everything changed... couldnt see straight got really anxious... said he got really messed up... enough he couldn't drive and hardly could walk... flushed the rest of the stuff he bought... crazy you can just go buy the stuff in a store...

Posted by: chickenviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

Ssssshhhh dont tell anyone, it's bad enough they got beat three years in a row by "some old guy in a lincoln".. they'd really be pissed if they found out it was "some old stoned guy in a lincoln"..

LMAO!

LMFAO!!!!!!!!

Posted by: RedHotMark96

Heres my clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB-PwCQHKq4
I have the LMS setup.

I had some flowmaster 50 series on my Grand Marquis and the sounded good, if a little quiet, but from what I understand flowmasters generally sound aweful on the 4v engine.

Posted by: chickenviii

ok so its not a markviii, but it might as well be, project thundermark, its a 95 bird with a 95 markviii dohc with kooks headers, no cats, 2 bullett mufflers then a xpipe, and 2 small magnaflows outback. the kooks headers make it LOUD
some older vids:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oID=18391 746
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oID=18392 077
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oID=18393 070
and a newer one on the dyno:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oID=32264 132

Posted by: Speed Demon

Are the Kooks full length or shorties? BTW I agree, True duals refers to dual pipes from the engine, not split from a single. Crossovers or not, its still a dual set up.

Posted by: chickenviii

i think they are 3/4 length

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by warthog5

HeHe From that I take it you don't / didn't like them.

well initially they were ok..
but they rotted out internally in a fairly short time...

I put three different sets of 40 series delta flows on the car.

they make a stainless version but it was way out of my price range.

seemed I needed a new set about every 2..2 and a half years, ish.

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewDavid

crazy you can just go buy the stuff in a store...

most dont realize that with pretty much "any" psychedelic substance, be it chemical or natural (example lsd, mushrooms ect) the psyc experience is really basicly a "light posioning".

salvia is just that, poisonous..and different people react to poisons in a different manner.

*disclaimer*
this is based on many years of experiments that were not scientific in nature nor do I have any dyno sheets to back them up.

P.S. I'm still waiting for that supposed "FLASH BACK" that I was supposed to receive.

Posted by: warthog5

I like the sound of yours RedHotMark96.

However, I'm not a fan of the dual tips. I really like the factory tips myself.

I did find some Magnflow tips that were acceptable.

Rolled-Oblong-Round Angle

Diameter Length I.D. Inlet Part #
2.75in.x5.25in. 7.25in. 2.25in. 35175

Posted by: slowmkviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed Demon

Are the Kooks full length or shorties? BTW I agree, True duals refers to dual pipes from the engine, not split from a single. Crossovers or not, its still a dual set up.

+1
and I also think that the Kooks are 3/4 length

Posted by: chickenviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by warthog5

I like the sound of yours RedHotMark96.

However, I'm not a fan of the dual tips. I really like the factory tips myself.

I did find some Magnflow tips that were acceptable.

Rolled-Oblong-Round Angle

Diameter Length I.D. Inlet Part #
2.75in.x5.25in. 7.25in. 2.25in. 35175

go for it thats what we used on the thundermark, but first a pic of the first set up (that was quickly removed) then a good pic (the cutouts were done with a steak knife, i didnt do it the exhaust guy did but it came out great)

Posted by: warthog5

Quote:

(the cutouts were done with a steak knife,

What'cu be takin bout Wilis?

Posted by: chickenviii

you cant see it the pic (too dark) but they had to cut the bumpercover so the tips would fit Arnold lol! aint no cutouts on a bird

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

Wasn't the right exhaust.

Ken Kropac picked up 3 tenths with our system

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Heres our set up for the Marks. On sale right now too.

Posted by: warthog5

HeHe Gotch'a Chicken. He used a knife to cut a section out of the lower bumper cover for clearance.

Posted by: TDUB

Wow I didn't realize Salvia was that intense, I always heard that it was like a fifteen minute high at the most. Oh, and my bad I forgot the r on your lol.

Posted by: NateRW21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewDavid

I had to jump this one... Weed is like exhaust??!?!!?... whah?... that's a funny one... hehehee... but thing about it is when you breathe in weed it doesn't come out the same way.. you don't fart out a big cloud... I mean just think of all the stoners that would be out there tryin to suck butt... sorry... I'm a big advocate on the decriminalization of pot... and it's not a gateway drug... I'm sure most people drink alcohol before they smoke pot... it was Big Ol' Ronnie Reagan that got that term stuck in our heads.... and if you're curious you're gonna try everything else regardless if you smoke pot or not... I never figured out why it's illegal and so many things that are worse aren't... like salvia?...

but yeah he's right about the exhaust part... I don't really know that much about it but from what I've gathered... if you do really any mods tryin to get any extra horsies you should do a lot that way you're really gettin your moneys worth... changing the mufflers would make it sound different if that's all youre goin for... I'm sure others are gonna chime in... but I if I recall the magnaflows are the nicer of the brands for sound... but I could be wrong...

I've never met any hard-core user that managed to SKIP weed... known a few that don't drink though. Though admittedly, that isn't seen very often.

http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/m...teway-drug.htm

The main difference is that marijuana induces the same effects on the brain in respect to the chemical pathways as those harder drugs (Dopamine). So given you're more likely to be in contact with persons doing harder drugs while smoking some hash (the drug scene is more accepting of harder users than the non-drug scene... obviously), and those harder drugs give a larger chemical release of what you're already enjoying... anyone that would say it isn't a gateway drug is foolish. When your body becomes accustom to something, it grows to think it needs it; this is where physical addiction comes from, and to an extent psychological addiction; it's as simple as filling a void. As time goes on, you get tired of spending 10 minutes filling the void when you could do it in 2 or 4 or 5

Alcohol on the other hand... doesn't convert inside the body or induce the release of chemicals causing a euphoric state; it simply acts to depress the central nervous system. It could be said that alcohol is a gate-way drug to barbiturates as they both act in the same way and will both satisfy the body's dependency. Fortunately, central nervous system depressants aren't as plentiful as stimulants for recreational use (alcohol excluded). Otherwise, we'd have a lot more suicides.

And for reference, typical joint has 10 times more tar than your typical cigarette which, when combined with the extended time it's held in the lungs poses a much higher risk for lung and throat cancer. The extended and over use of Dopamine causes neuro pathways to disappear (giving you the "typical" brain-dead stoner... this effect is actually much like a life-long alcoholic; both have the same end state problem, just the routes getting there were different). Sperm count is lowered, as is testosterone. There are a mess of other proven harmful side effects; I'm only making a point... It isn't as "harmless" as users wish it were.

Posted by: MatthewDavid

First of all... I want to apologize for kinda sorta highjacking this thread for our little debate...

Second of all have you even smoked pot before?... or are you just reading all this stuff?... I find that most of the people that have all the answers against marijuana have never really smoked it... they've experimented with it a couple of times but never got over the whole psych yourself up stage...

But yeah... to start out... Salvia is CRAZY!!... you'll be lucky if it lasts 15 minutes... I've only done it once and it lasted 3 minutes... 3 minutes that really wasn't all that great... my friend that had the problem with it has been doing acid for like 15 years... true he's not totally bright... but he said he can't believe he can buy this stuff over the counter... It's an extreme trip for about 5 minutes... when I say extreme it's EXTREME!!...

Now to the pot... if you're gonna compare it on Dopamine levels... then what's with Caffeine?... if you do research it's raises levels just like all narcotics... and have you ever seen a manager at 8 am without their coffee?... talk about havin with drawls!!... and if you have smoked... it's not a huge buzz... for me I hardly really feel a big change... just kinda relaxes me... it's like having your back cracked after you twisted it... it still works just doesn't feel right... and I never smoke at work... and I don't smoke during the day... it's just like that evening beer... it just helps unwind... I've "experimented" with a few harder drugs... and I don't condone any of them... and of course people that smoke are gonna be around harsher drugs... it's cause it's ILLEGAL still... if it wasn't people wouldn't have to hang out with all them shady characters... it's like people that steal cars probably hang out with other people that steal things... it's just how stuff works like that... also most the "stoners" you see also abuse the drug... smoke it till they get retarded... most everyday smokers know how to control it... just like alcohol you gotta enjoy in moderation...

if you kept up with technology you don't have to smoke a joint to get high... real people that smoke pot regularly and care about their bodies smoke through a vaporizor... like the one my girlfriend got me

... my doctor recommended I get one also... no tar... no carcinogens... purest form of THC delivery... well besides food

... but that's a whole nother bowl of brownies

...

Sorry for a long rant... I'm just from a small rural right wing town and it kinda aggrivates me that there's so many people against it and don't really have all the details... I almost got locked up for 20 years.. 20 YEARS!!... for less than an ounce... it was stupid... for something that doesn't kill anyone... and the people that control the laws... if they'd just open their eyes they'd realize the same thing... if it was legalized we probably wouldn't be so much in a recession... tax it dumbasses!!... look at all the Rich pot pushers!... there's a lot of demand for it and there's SH*T TON of consumers just waiting to go and purchase it... quit wasting money on jailing them up and just tax it already!... again sorry... kinda feel like making a new post... kinda cool to see some other smokers on here though

Posted by: NateRW21

I happen to be involved in certain areas of law enforcement (so yes, I do know a few things about substances of abuse and the users themselves.. as well as "technology" as you stated); I've heard your arguments over and over and over again. Unfortunately, it didn't hold any weight when they first started using it as their argument, it doesn't now.

The levels of dopamine released from the caffeine in a cup of coffee are considerably less than the levels released from a single joint (and obviously, this is one of the more inefficient delivery methods) Caffeine doesn't constrict the blood vessels in the brain, causing over time, permanent loss of capacity (again, much like alcohol's long term negative effects on the brain).

There have been literally hundreds of studies on THC and decreased brain function. How many successful Doctors and scientists have you ever heard say "I'm a habitual marijuana user"?

One of the best arguments is the one that goes along the lines of this "weed is natural; nature doesn't hurt you"... This is a ridiculous argument on two levels; one, if nature is okay for you... there would be no such thing as poison plants that will kill you if you eat them. And number two, Marijuana as we know it today is far from natural; it's been bred and genetically manipulated/modified. It's nearly impossible to find marijuana as nature intended it today, and if you did... you would be entirely not impressed. It goes right along the same lines as the tobacco industry increasing the tar contents of their products; you're putting out a product that has a greater effect which will make your customer more happy (while totally disregarding their health), and as a bonus, you're increasing the physiological as well as psychological dependence.

Trying to tell me that because I'm not a user that I can't make a judgement... that's laughable. If this theory were true, I should have to sleep with a man to know I'm not gay. Well guess what, I've never done any such thing and... I know I'm not gay. But interestingly enough, you make an argument that marijuana/THC isn't a gateway drug; yet you yourself said you've experimented with other drugs. Wouldn't your argument of exclusion do to applicability nullify your views? Then you compare it to Felonious auto theft; this is truly laughable! I hope you were high when you wrote this because it really is a bad comparison. You're telling me that if you steal a car, the only reason you would progress onto robbing a bank, rape or murder is because your initial act was illegal? This argument is like saying well "yes, it's a gateway... but only because it's illegal to begin with". If that were the case, we'd have a great deal more serial killers to contend with. There are a select few who commit crimes just because of the adrenaline release it provides. Most do it for one of two reasons; necessity (weather actual, perceived, situational or self-inflicted), and simple psychiatric "dysfunctions" (I put it in quotations because there is a difference between this and clinically "insane"; one is simply the lack of aversion to crime and the general lack of ethics, the other is an actual condition that inhibits control and the differentiating between right and wrong). Anyhow, I guess if we legalize auto theft, we'd eliminate all crime... You should run for public office on this initiative! :-)

And since you brought it up... Legalizing marijuana wouldn't decrease the likely hood of users moving on to "bigger and better" things. Nearly half of all habitual alcohol users have also used marijuana within the last year (this statistic is from 2006 and it's actually around 44%, but that's close enough to half for me), over half who use tobacco and alcohol... but, for those that don't use alcohol or tobacco, it's less then 15%. What does that tell you? Yup, it tells you that legalizing on particular drug doesn't all of a sudden make people content with the stimulation they have at hand. The fact is that persons who consume or use any kind of recreational drug, legal or not are more likely to progress up the ladder, and the further up the ladder you go, the more likely they are to continue climbing (it was somewhere around 60-65% of marijuana users had tried other illicit substances). So, you draw the line somewhere, in an effort to maintain a higher level of society (if you can name anywhere that ALL drugs are legal and it's perfectly safe to walk down a dimly light street at night... I'll give you the win... drug use as a whole degrade society). Why marijuana and not tobacco or alcohol or even caffeine? Well, tobacco is on its way out; slowly but surely (simply due to health). Caffeine, like tobacco doesn't cause permanent brain paralysis. So we're left with alcohol... Although it isn't a harsh carcinogen, it can cause liver diseases and kidney failure; on the up side, it's extensively used in cooking and throughout history as a way to liquify food/calories (the saying "I'm drinking my dinner" really isn't that far from the truth). Marijuana on the other hand is known to be worse than tobacco for cancer and causes permanent brain paralysis... and is more likely than alcohol to further progress persons to the next "stage" of use. On top of this, the research for it's non-recreational use has been less than convincing.

Now, I feel as though this thread has been hi-jacked way too much as it is. I'm done discussing; if you want to retort, be my guest; it's a free country. But I'm done bantering about a subject wholly unrelated to exhaust. (well, I guess not WHOLLY... you do have to exhaust (read, exhale) the smoke)

Posted by: XLRVIII

I dont suggest that anyone do drugs as a whole.

I only "blew a couple of holes" in that theory that smoking pot makes your reaction times suck...

Posted by: XLRVIII

and I'm still waiting (30+ years) for that "FREE FLASHBACK".

Posted by: MatthewDavid

That makes sense now... you're associated with law enforcement... was wondering why you talked like that... you can speak your point of view all you want... I'm not sayin just cause you haven't tried it you have no argument... I said I find the people that are the ones against it haven't really tried it... so they don't know the whole culture behind it... and yeah there's A LOT of user doctors... like MINE!... he's been smoking for 25 years... has two PHD's... one in Eastern medicine and One for Western medicine... he's a holistic doctor now... doesn't prescribe drugs... says they mess people up too much... he doesn't just tell everyone to smoke either... cause it reacts differently for everyone... just like everything else... and there's a lot more doctors out there that use... and have used... and will continue to use... and yeah pot's gotten a lot better since back in the day... but that's good... makes it so you only have to smoke one hit... instead of a joint... saves the 'ol lungs... and about me "experimenting" with other drugs... I woulda did that anyways... I want to live... isn't life all about experiences?... just like I try a new food every month... I'm just built that way... and no making it legal isn't gonna fix everything... but remember when you were a high schooler how fun it was to drink... well that's how kinda is with pot... when it became legal here a lot of people actually quit smoking cause it wasn't as fun... and about it becoming legal... look at Canada... specially british columbia... it was legal there for about a year till the great land of liberty stepped in and made it illegal again... but in that year they made so much money off of it... it was their biggest commodity... they also sited that the streets that were full of drug dealers slowly dwindled... I'm not sayin it should be legal... I'm sayin it's just messed up that a lot of harsher things aren't... like Salvia... and I'm sure alcohol is a lot worse than pot in a lot of other fields... they had over 10,000 people show up for a smoke out in Boulder, Colorado... 10,000 people!!... not one arrest... not one fight... good luck doing that with any kind of alcohol present... my belief is people should be able to control their own lives... and it's stupid people get locked up for something that's not really harmful... we should have the right to decide what's goin into our bodies... if we wanted to rant about what should be illegal it should be prescription drugs... more kids are hooked on that than anything... and no I'm not high... like I said i don't smoke all day... but I like how it's socially acceptable for a person to drink all day... just don't understand it... I'm done now... I'm over it... and it'll never be settled... people are just too stubborn... just like me

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewDavid

but remember when you were a high schooler how fun it was to drink

when it became legal cause it wasn't as fun... D

Once I became legal drinking age I prompty stopped drinking...Matthew is correct.. it just didn't have the same "appeal" to me.

Posted by: XLRVIII

let's not forget all these teens and college kids that are drinking themselves to death..
But HEY.. Alcohol is a legal drug so it's no big deal...right? Mkay.

Then let's compare "intoxication to fatality ratios".

BAC at .09 your intoxicated, three times that amount and you are in an alcohol induced coma/death.

Smoke a doobie and your intoxicated, but if you smoke THREE MORE, you aren't DEAD...

Worst thing that happens is you "EAT ALL THE TWINKIES" in the kitchen.

Ever hear of someone "getting stone and raping/killing their neighbors wife, child or dog?... mmmmmNO.

But.. many people get drunk and kill, maim or otherwise injure their neighbors wife, child or dog.. and it's acceptable for them to say..

"I didn't know what I was doing.. I was DRUNK".

again smoking weed isn't "for everyone" and I dont suggest many people do ANY DRUGS, as there are too many variables and too many unstable people out there.

Posted by: XLRVIII

and again.. sorry for the thread HIGHJACK

Posted by: MatthewDavid

Thank you!!

... finally someone that understands what I'm saying... it's not that it's perfect... nothing is... but I just don't understand why it's illegal... just think how much money america spends on locking up potheads that wouldn't hurt anyone... for what?... it's dumb... and he's right... I was lazy so I just grabbed some stats off a site

• Alcohol availability is closely related to violent assaults. Communities and neighborhoods that have more bars and liquor stores per capita experience more assaults. 1

• Alcohol use is frequently associated with violence between intimate partners. Two-thirds of victims of intimate partner violence reported that alcohol was involved in the incident. 2

• In one study of interpersonal violence, men had been drinking in an estimated 45 percent of cases and women had been drinking in 20 percent of cases. 3

• Women whose partners abused alcohol were 3.6 times more likely than other women to be assaulted by their partners. 4

• In 1997, 40 percent of convicted rape and sexual assault offenders said that they were drinking at the time of their crime. 5

• In 2002, more than 70,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 were victims of alcohol-related sexual assault in the U.S. 6

• In those violent incidents recorded by the police in which alcohol was a factor, about nine percent of the offenders and nearly 14 percent of the victims were under age 21. 7

• Twenty-eight percent of suicides by children ages nine to 15 were attributable to alcohol. 8

• An estimated 480,000 children are mistreated each year by a caretaker with alcohol problems. 9

Now you can't find any stats on Marijuana related violence cause it's always lumped together with other drugs... cause it's illegal... it gets put on the shelf with all the others... like Meth... which in my hometown is HUGE!... but go there and all the alcoholics smoke meth... all the potheads?... none of them touch it cause it's not the same... oh yeah damn it... I thought I was done... ok I'm done... it's been beat to death and I think people get the point

... hope everyone had a happy 4th

Posted by: unity

I shall quote:

"Man made Beer, God made marijuana. Which do you trust?"

Posted by: XLRVIII

Figure there are roughly 20 million pot smokers in the US.. and then consider how many BILLIONS they spend to stop 20 million people from smoking pot.

Hell.. if they cut me a check for "my portion" I'll quit.

Posted by: XLRVIII

not to mention how many "free beds" would be available for violent crime offenders if they let the pot heads out of jail...