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It's Alive! Finally Dyno Tuned!

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Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

Finally Got the Mark VIII Dyno Tuned at Logan Motorsports. I got a SCT Xcalibrator2 and had Logan see what they could improve on..

So, as it was, before hooking up the xcal, i asked if they would do a dyno pull just as i had it, when they did, the air to fuel was soo lean that he didnt feel like it would be a safe pull so he stopped it at around 4000 RPM. For some numbers, the a/f ratio was at a little over 16:1. for those of you who dont know, it should be, depending on the tune, around 13:1 ish...
I was reallly suprised.!!

After the tuning, it ended up putting down 239RWHP and 245RWTQ. It was still making power all the way to 6000rpm(where the dyno stopped) he said at 6500rpm it makes 243-248rwhp..It was about 80 degrees in the shop. I had the shift points raised, Shifts Firmed up! Which was a HUGE difference. Cooling fans come on around 180 now. along with some other things.

Heres a graph of one of the pulls. As you can see, the torque curve is nice and flat, So for everyone who had questions about running a short runner cobra intake, You don't Loose the low end .. Just goes to show, unless someone has done it, then nobody really knows for sure. i had soooo many people tell me that it would be a dog down low even with the 4.10's, grant it that i am still running the imrc's..

Overall i am REALLY impressed with the numbers considering on their dyno, (which they told me early on reads a little low), that the gen 2 marks were running from 205rwhp to 212rwhp.. so to be conservative, i gained about 30 wheel horsepower from the mods in my sig.. Very impressed. heres a video of after the tune 0-85..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80W0h2lea1k

and lets not forget the before the tune video i posted. you dont need a timer to see that it is way slower here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMGr-88Ql4c

anyone got a stopwatch? i would like to see how my 0-60 and 0-80 changed between the two videos!

Comments please. Be honest!

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Nice #'s
Walt put down 260/259 in the Carlisle heat and humidity back in 02.

Posted by: crownvicjim

Huge diff! i'm impressed. nice.

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

yes, big difference! Thanks guys. The project has been really great so far, i cant wait to get some Really Big numbers down, but it should pull a decent time at the track...

Ill be happy to answer any questions anyone has about the mods or anything about the car, happy to help!

Posted by: AbrahamLincoln

thats a beautiful thing! shoot some n20!

Posted by: crownvicjim

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98CobraStarLSC

yes, big difference! Thanks guys.
Ill be happy to answer any questions anyone has about the mods or anything about the car, happy to help!

what kind of rpm are you running at 70?

how much time and money do you have into that intake?all together.

how much did you spend on getting the gears in?

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by crownvicjim

what kind of rpm are you running at 70?

how much time and money do you have into that intake?all together.

how much did you spend on getting the gears in?

RPM at 70mph is around 24-2500rpm.. its really not bad at all, i expected a lot worse! I only lost 1-2 miles per gallon on the highway! That is really what suprised me.!

As for the Intake manifold, i bought it from this forum actually!. heres the link, http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/sho...t=cobra+intake.. It ended up costing me $350 shipped. (as you can see he said it should be 40whp, which i completely didnt beleive but i just wanted a cobra intake) It was worth it, usually on ebay they run $275ish.. It was recommended in the writeup that you do the cobra fuel rails, i didnt, i used the stock ones. I would recommend getting the cobra rails because of the low cost as opposed the the large amount of modification that has to be done to the cobra intake to make it fit.(you have to cut around the fuel pressure regulator and other areas to make it fit. I spent another $200 on the C&L intake and maf used off of craigslist.

As for the 4.10's install, i do all of my own mechanical work, (i work as a technician at Carmax). So it didnt cost me anything except parts($550ish) i bought them from Max at five star = best deal around period... But i did get a couple of quotes to get them installed just to humor myself. They ranged from 400-700 if you have EVERYTHING including the oil. We have independent rear suspention which means a lot more work, but in my opinion, its better. It took me about 12 hours i think, taking my time and going to breakfast, lunch and dinner . Mind you that i did it ON THE GROUND with jack stands. Find a lift, its a pain on the ground.

Hope that helps.

Posted by: driller

Why so lean before the tune?

Nice pull on the dyno, now on to the track!

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by driller

Why so lean before the tune?

Nice pull on the dyno, now on to the track!

I was running all stock ECU values with a check engine light. but i had all the mods to the intake was causing way more air and no more fuel!. i have the conical filter, cobra manifold with direct runners, and ported throttlebody..

Thats crazy that it was soo lean right? i was very suprised!

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

C intakes are pointless imho unless your boosted or have monster gears and a huge converter. I have never seen major dyno gains from one, looks cool though and make s a sc a direct bolt on too.

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbrahamLincoln

thats a beautiful thing! shoot some n20!

+1 NOS is YuMmY!!!

Posted by: slowmkviii

I like wish I had the money to do that work plus cams

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

cobra intake and everything for the rear end 4.10's was all together about 1000! not bad but you have to do the install yourself for that price!

Posted by: 96mark8

about how much does a dyno tune cost?

P.S Nice job, that badass.

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96mark8

about how much does a dyno tune cost?

P.S Nice job, that badass.

they spent about 2 hours on it and i paid 250..

Check out there website. www.loganmotorsports.com

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Good stuff! Just a quickie... is the race weight in your profile a typo?

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93' Blue on blue

Good stuff! Just a quickie... is the race weight in your profile a typo?

haha, Yes it is .. ill fix that.. Its more like 3850 with me in it.

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

another comment on the 4.10's... Everyone said with the xcal2 you could compensate for the rear end gears and get the speedo right?? They told me no, you couldnt because it uses a manual type speedometer sensor?

But when i am on the highway and around town as well, it doesn't seem like the speedo is off? seems like i flow with traffic great like it was back in the day with the stock ones. Weird huh? i have yet to test the true speed but i think its spot on..?

Posted by: bryantaylor

i am thinking that you have an exhuast leak pre-sensor for the wideband. 16:1 is so lean you would be melting stuff down if it was even acclerating at all. you usually get bad surging with 16:1 or leaner at a cruise state, much less a WOT pull.

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

No, not an exhaust leak...
well, they told me that it was so lean that my Check Engine light was from the O2 sensors reading sooo lean.. we checked and they are working perfectly. I have stock o2's they took mine out and put in the one for the dyno readings.. Basically the o2's were reading so lean that the computer was having to try to compensate..

Must not have explained well enough, to run on the dyno, you have to put the programmer in so it can be held in 3rd gear(1:1) .. so he plugged it in and the computer thought the problems were fixed because the check engine light was fooled into turning off. THAT is where we got a 16:1 a/f ratio. And yes it was surging like a M.F. when he gave it throttle.. haha. but just plugging in the programmer to hold 3rd gear and turn off the light, with the base map, it read a very lean 16:1..

Hope that explains, even reading it makes me even more confused. haha its hard to explain..

Posted by: shiryu0

NICE

......Gen2's read from the ABS for the speedometer, the trans is the one that needs to be adjusted for the change in gears.

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiryu0

NICE

......Gen2's read from the ABS for the speedometer, the trans is the one that needs to be adjusted for the change in gears.

so is my speedo right or do i have to get into the Xcal2 and change trans ??? please elaborate and thank you!

Posted by: Rich88LSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98CobraStarLSC

so is my speedo right or do i have to get into the Xcal2 and change trans ??? please elaborate and thank you!

On Gen2s the speedo is of the ABS like shiryu0 Said. Your speedo should be just as accurate as before. IIRC the only thing you need worry about with the gear in the trans is the freeway ride height speed is picked up off of it. So without changing the gear in the speedo the car will drop at a lower speed.

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

I thought it was very close! But i didnt know about the ride height.. thats some good info!.

Also, i have a 160 thermostadt and i am programming my hi/low speed fans..

what should i set the low at ? and the high? (in the x cal2 )

It was defaulted at low 198 high 208 which is for the stock one.. the stock t0stat is a 188 degree.

EDIT- heres a picture of the intake with the cover off during installation.. For those of you who pm'd me asking about it

Rich, do you have some vis of your 3500 stall????

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98CobraStarLSC

Thats crazy that it was soo lean right? i was very suprised!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98CobraStarLSC

but just plugging in the programmer to hold 3rd gear and turn off the light, with the base map, it read a very lean 16:1..

I always thought the base maps were excessively rich. Usual intake mods will result in leaner mixtures than base but are soon compensated by the PCM. Sounds like that's what was happening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiryu0

NICE

......Gen2's read from the ABS for the speedometer, the trans is the one that needs to be adjusted for the change in gears.

Isn't the TSS is still used by the PCM for shift programming independant from the speedo on the Gen2? Stock that is - with the XCal programmer the shift points are programmed to the desired results.

Posted by: Rich88LSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98CobraStarLSC

Rich, do you have some vis of your 3500 stall????

No. It was a bit much with the stock 3.07 gears. I have some issues with the 4.10/trac lok that went in over the weekend. It's making some godawful noises so I am not driving it until I bring it back tomorrow for the shop to fix what the problem is. Once everything is done I will get a vid and post it up since your not the first person that asked.

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich88LSC

are your gears whining? who installed them? I just did the install myself, it took some adjustment but mine showed a perfect pattern while on the bench..

Posted by: ILLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98CobraStarLSC

I see you have a few differences for your MAF with the C&L tube and the LMS MAF. If those were in place before the tune then they were likely why your AFR's were off. Those additional airflow mods (intake, filter, TB) you mention will still pull additional aircharge through your MAF so the AFR's will not be thrown terribly off by those alone. They will slightly change as is the game when changing any variable in a combination. You start fiddling with either the MAF electronics or the housing and your AFR's can change a whole bunch. How much depends on what kind of changes were made.

Also the reason why your CEL shut off right after the reflash is because your KAM was cleared during the reflash. Of course if nothing else was changed then the code would come back again.

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

You are correct on the MAF, i did have the correct sampling tube for the stock injectors though, but yes, your right that did change the a/f ratio. The Keep Alive Memory idea, i drove it like that for around 850 miles, during that time, the c.e.l. actually turned off after about 100 miles, then came back on. I never had a code for No EGR Flow, which is weird because i have it blocked off! But it would not erase the o2 sensor codes because it was not just a one time occurance. If it just spike once, then threw the check engine light, then a few trip would clear it, it was a continuously lean reading telling the computer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLS

Posted by: ILLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98CobraStarLSC

You are correct on the MAF, i did have the correct sampling tube for the stock injectors though, but yes, your right that did change the a/f ratio. The Keep Alive Memory idea, i drove it like that for around 850 miles, during that time, the c.e.l. actually turned off after about 100 miles, then came back on. I never had a code for No EGR Flow, which is weird because i have it blocked off! But it would not erase the o2 sensor codes because it was not just a one time occurance. If it just spike once, then threw the check engine light, then a few trip would clear it, it was a continuously lean reading telling the computer.

The whole sample tube sizing deal is rudimentary, at best, for ensuring AFR's are dialed in. I know C&L does that with some of their stuff but it is an outdated way to try to really try to dial in the WOT AFR's while whether you are running a stocker or aftermarket injector. Nothing can replace recalibrating it all in the tune itself. The minor advantage the sample tube sizing deal does have is that an end user can somewhat get their AFR's closer before getting the full blown tune. The only problem here is that I do not trust too many end users to accomplish that process the right way without hurting their engine. Hehe. Its all case by case basis there, as many people in here know.

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLS

Thats right, the C&L maf and LMS maf are the same concept .. But nothing can compare to a retune.. But for injector changes, the sampling tubes are a fast and easy way to get you on the road quicker

Posted by: Rich88LSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98CobraStarLSC

are your gears whining? who installed them? I just did the install myself, it took some adjustment but mine showed a perfect pattern while on the bench..

Turned out to be a rear wheel bearing decided to go the same day the gears were done. I think there is a little whine but I don't know for sure how much noise is actually coming from the gears. I'll see after tonight when I get to drive it around.

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

All gears make a slight whine especially high gears, they are never "silent" the better the setup the less noise but there is always a mild whine.

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

seriously man, mine are totally silent.. i adjusted the hell out of them, and got a perfect pattern. I also used ams oil.. maybe that oils is that good. haha..

Posted by: Rich88LSC

I brought it back to them today, it was definitely to loud. I used Redline Synth

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

hmmm. did you get it fixed then? noisy gears can be very annoying.. thats for sure!

Posted by: Rich88LSC

Not yet I'm pretty frustrated with it at this point. I trust the mechanic and he's had it apart a couple times now. It's better but I'm not happy. Going to have a talk with him tomorrow about what exactly they are doing with it. If I feel like they did all they could I'm going to have to try another set of gears.

Posted by: slowmkviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98CobraStarLSC

seriously man, mine are totally silent.. i adjusted the hell out of them, and got a perfect pattern. I also used ams oil.. maybe that oils is that good. haha..

I was told you should use a non synth. oil to break in the gears

Posted by: ILLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich88LSC

Not yet I'm pretty frustrated with it at this point. I trust the mechanic and he's had it apart a couple times now. It's better but I'm not happy. Going to have a talk with him tomorrow about what exactly they are doing with it. If I feel like they did all they could I'm going to have to try another set of gears.

What brand of gears did you go with? That matters too. The cheaper gears do not have as tight of machining tolerances and thus will be noisier.

Posted by: Rich88LSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLS

What brand of gears did you go with? That matters too. The cheaper gears do not have as tight of machining tolerances and thus will be noisier.

FMS gears. And everything else is new too.

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

i went with all ford racing stuff for my swap from max at five star ford. They come with a more "shiny" or polished look on the gears which is supposed to decrease noise and ease break in .. i have had absolutely NO noise whatsoever.. just a driveshaft vibration.

Posted by: 96mark8

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98CobraStarLSC

they spent about 2 hours on it and i paid 250..

Check out there website. www.loganmotorsports.com

opps i forgot abuot this thread.

thanks, thats not bad at all i thought it would cost about 600 but 250 it a very fair price.

Posted by: Rich88LSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98CobraStarLSC

i went with all ford racing stuff for my swap from max at five star ford. They come with a more "shiny" or polished look on the gears which is supposed to decrease noise and ease break in .. i have had absolutely NO noise whatsoever.. just a driveshaft vibration.

I got everything from Max too. It will be back at the shop again because it is way to noisy. I already had a dynotech driveshaft from SCP.

Back on topic I did look into a dyno tune only one guy local could be bothered touching something other then a mustang. They wanted $300 for dyno tune $100 for new software from SCT for the Lincoln computer and $400 for the Xcal. I've since gotten a mail order tune from Lonnie and am happy with it. Down the road when a short runner Cobra intake and maybe new cams find there way on the car I will get a dyno tune.

Posted by: 98CobraStarLSC

for sure you will need a dyno tune when you put on the short runner or any cobra manifold. You thinking of getting the FR500 setup? i am looking very closely at it....

Posted by: Rich88LSC

I'm not sure about cams. Haven"t got that far yet. It will be a ways off for me.