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Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan

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Posted by: 04SCTLS

Jun. 13 - Japanese company Genepax presents its eco-friendly car that runs on nothing but water.
The car has an energy generator that extracts hydrogen from water that is poured into the car's tank. The generator then releases electrons that produce electric power to run the car. Genepax, the company that invented the technology, aims to collaborate with Japanese manufacturers to mass produce it.

http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=84561

Posted by: Joeychgo

Cute go kart. Unfortunately, it'll need to be quite a bit bigger to convince americans to buy it.

Posted by: MonsterMark

http://www.physorg.com/news98556080.html

Posted by: 04SCTLS

The exciting thing here is that you only have to pour water in the tank and the car generates the hydrogen it needs to power itself.
Hydrogen is hard to handle otherwise plus there's no need for a fuel station to go refill at.
I supposed to generate more hydrogen one would need a larger hydrogen generator which would then allow for building a bigger vehicle.

This looks like a way to solve our dependance on unfriendly unstable foreign
energy suppliers.
Of course it will take many years but we have a working look at the future here.

Posted by: TheDude

There's also an air-car:
http://www.theaircar.com/acf/

Honda just released their FCX, which runs on fuel-cells (hydrogen) and produces zero emissions while getting the equivalent of 74 mpg.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ondacar16.html

Posted by: hrmwrm

1 litre of water for 50 mph for 1 hour. that's better than 200 mpg of water. problem with air is storage and volume, plus power needed to compress the air to high enough pressures to be viable. and of course, hydrogen's problem is still availability.

water has it's drawbacks though, which is cold weather usability. but there are ways to easily overcome that. nice thing about water is you wouldn't have to pay anybody for fuel.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrmwrm

water has it's drawbacks though, which is cold weather usability. but there are ways to easily overcome that. nice thing about water is you wouldn't have to pay anybody for fuel YET.

Fixed it for you. Remember, the gubmint always finds a way to tax everything.

Posted by: Danlboi

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrmwrm

nice thing about water is you wouldn't have to pay anybody for fuel YET.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

Fixed it for you. Remember, the gubmint always finds a way to tax everything.

Eggzackery!

That was my thought as well.

Posted by: 04SCTLS

Found this interesting

http://reviews.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hydrogen-Generator-Economy-Device-SCAMS_W0QQugidZ10000000005261775

Hydrogen Generator Economy Device SCAMS
By: ayasia

( 356

)

341 out of 356 people found this guide helpful.
Tags: Hydrogen Generator|Performance chip|Hydrostar|Economy|Fuel Gas Saver
With the surge in gas prices, came a surge of people and companies selling hydrogen boost generators, systems and devices to increase your fuel economy. The amount of sellers gets bigger with every day. This alone should have put up a warning flag.

Included is a brief on the Performance chips, Air Razors, Turbonators, Throttle body spacers, and other "bolt on performance and fuel economy"

This message is for all looking to purchase something of the matter.

Most all of these sellers here on eBay and elswhere on the net state that they have been researching for years and that it is now available to the public. Most all of them say their technology is patent pending and that their system is better than others. Most all of them claim huge "up to" increases in fuel savings.

I have been researching the Economy and Hydrogen world for sometime now. Being a auto mechanic and being not only booksmart but streetsmart, I have decided to try to evade people from throwing away their hard earned cash.

First the Hydrogen deal:

Lets get the facts straight. Water is H2O aka- 2parts Hydrogen, 1part Oxygen combined together. When put under electrolysis or electrosis these molecules split forming a gas known as HHO which is a very explosive and powerful gas. The smallest of sparks can ignite the gas and if stored into container which for some reason caught fire the result could be fatal. No need to get scared though, if the proper precautions are made, no danger is to be seen.

HHO is about 3 times more powerful than gasoline vapor. Meaning 1L of HHO would give your vehicle 300% more power than 1L of gasoline vapor. But feeding an engine pure hho would destroy it due to the fact timing is advanced(spark before TDC) on most vehicles but needs to be retarded(spark past TDC). Also the temperature at which HHO Burns is melting point of the metal it touches. SO...your valves and head would burn through in a matter of weeks. Also when you completely remove gasoline or diesel from an engine the upper cylinder gets no lubrication and will wear out your piston rings FAST.

Getting enough HHO to power a car is pretty hard if not impossible. Explanation: a 2 cylinder 1L engine uses 1L of air per 4 revolutions (rpm). Gasoline is injected as a mist which turns into a vapor instantly at a ratio of 15 parts air to one part vapor. Which is .07 L. At 2000 RMP the engine uses 1/2L of vapor per SECOND. HHO is already one part oxygen to two parts hydrogen so too much air would thin it out too much and give no explosion. SO, even at a ratio of 10:1 that would require .85 L per second of HHO to power that same engine at 2000RPM. Kinda alot. NO generator I have seen or made can come close to the requirements.

So we use HHO to Boost the efficeincy of our gasoline engine, giving it pure hydrogen and oxygen to let the fuel burn better. This is where the good part starts.

Most sellers are selling systems that give less than 1/2 LPM of HHO. When mixed with the air going to the engine that makes NOTHING. 1/10-1/2 LPM of HHO will do some good for a small engine like 50CC-2.0L again more HHO to the bigger engine. Any engine over this size needs 1+ LPM. Alot of the sellers dont even know how much their system makes! They say "ALOT" but in reality all the cells I have tested that seemed to make alot, made 1/4-3/4 LPM. If the kit supplies gas via an aquarium air line, the system makes nothing, trust me. LOOK OUT FOR THE GAS OUTPUT.

Second, if a system uses alot of AMPS, it will fry your alternator and battery in no time which no one will tell you though. Look out for systems that draw over 15AMPs but put out less than 1LPM. This is not a wise investment. A full size truck can handle 25 AMPS but I dont recommend going over 20.

MORE EXPENSIVE DOESNT MEAN BETTER!
The most credited seller so far on ebay is kensmith selling the HydroSuper which he says puts out +/- 2LPM @ 12 AMPs it is also at a decent price and looks to be professional, I have looked it over and it is a nicely built unit..Upon testing though, I find that without proper circulation of air around the unit (which is impossible under the hood of the car where it is already HOT) the unit boils over in a matter of minutes. So it starts drawing more amps, if you start at 10 you will get above 20 at boil. NOT GOOD.

Any system made out of PVC(white) or ABS(black) Plumbing pipe that draws over 15 amps is likely to boil. That pipe is not made to withstand that kind of temperature. It turns soft and flexible at that temp. It will warp, deform and likely leak in short time if there is any connections below the water line. Watch out for these types of systems.

The biggest concern is that most none of the sellers tell anyone that if you own a EFI (fuel injected) car which most people do, that you will need either and EFIE on your Oxygen sensor, or a resistor on your MAP or MAF sensor. These are fairly easy to build and install but it is a MUST and you will not see much difference in fuel savings without one, you even might see a loss of economy. It is used to trick the computer into thinking that the fuel mix is richer than it is. You want LEAN mix if you are running HHO boost. But too much oxygen in the exhaust will tell the computer to add more fuel which would cancel any HHO boost. Moving the Oxygen sensor out of the pipe but still mounted on the pipe will work on some vehicles (1996o or older). Diesel cars do not suffer from this.

The Performance economy chip SCAM:

Alot of sellers selling these "performance chips" many have closed doors and opened new ones due to bad feedback.
Stay away from the "performance chips" as they are only a resistor, usually 33K OHM (5pack at Radioshack for $1) that goes on your air intake temperature sensor and give the car a little boost. Whether $40 or $.99 on eBay, they are the same and dont do anything for gas mileage as the sellers state. The shipping is outrageous too.

The AirRazor or Turbonator or anything of the sort will not do anything for fuel economy as they restrict the air flow to the engine. Especially at high RPM. They state it makes a Vortex and mixes the air and fuel better to let it burn but what really happens is it makes Turbulence which slows down airflow which is exactly opposite of what we want. Chrome the inside of your intake manifold and install a smooth intake if you want performance with economy.

Fuel magnets do not work on gasoline cars as I have tested several different vehicles. They do help diesel engines as they destroy algea in the fuel. Several people for whom I have installed my magnets, say increases of 5-20% in economy. Stay away from Fuel Master (cheap ceramic magnets).

Fuel heaters do not do anything for fuel injected gasoline cars as the gasoline is already heated hot enough. They do work wonders on diesel as the fuel always returns to the tank and cools again never getting a chance to heat up hot enough for proper combustion.

Throttle body spacers dont do anything for a vehicle unless it is in full throttle position which is obviously not the point of saving gas. I have heard from two people that the AirRaid spacer increases economy 2.5-4 MPG on Chevy trucks.

Most economy devices only do good for the sellers and their fat wallets.

A good investment is a nice set of sparkplugs every 75K(Bosch 2 or 4, Iridium, e3), a new set of ignition wires every 50-75K miles, a new fuel filter, a high flow air filter (K&N, AirRaid, Fujita will last longer than your car) dont go for the China "cold air intake filter" Cheap foam will let ALOT of dust through.

Proper inflation of tires is a must. You can lose 10% for every 5PSI your tires are under-inflated. Extra junk has to go. A 100LBs will drop you 10% on a smaller car.

Use a fuel injector cleaner once in a while. Change your oil on time with the proper viscosity oil. Install an oil filter magnet to go longer between oil changes (check my items). Fill up at a quality gas station ALWAYS. I tested fuel from various "cheap stations" and you dont want to know what I found.

Here is a list of wasted money courtesy of ME.

Water4Gas (no NEW technology here, just FREE info from the web, a pathetic electrolyser design and a waste of time)
RunYourCarwithWater (Hydrostar manual for $50)
RunMyCarwithWater (Same Sh!t)
Thermo1 (you want a leaky system, this is the way to go)
Protium Fuel Systems (Selling things they dont have and dont want to return your money)
HydroStar Manuals for sale on eBay (the MOST EXPENSIVE and hardest system to TEST your money on. Based on his theory and no proof. Dont waste your money and time.)
Hydrocar is the hydrostar
GEET (I find it possible for it to work only on a fixed RPM engine)
mybetterworld (the system seems to work for a few days at a time before cleaning needs to be done @ $1050, I dont think so. Try it if you wish)
Turbonator $89
RedLine Performance chip $25 (closed store)
Fuel Master Fuel Magnet $30 (cheap ceramic magnets)
Throttle Body spacer $50
Orgone Generators $89 (mega bull)

I put up all the info a person needs to know to make an informed decision on where to put their hard earned money.

______________________________________________

http://shop.ebay.com/hydrogen-generators_W0QQ_nkwZhydrogenQ20generators

Some of these are scams but if you can spare an extra 20 amps on your electrical system some of these kits generate 2+ liters of HHO per minute.
The trick seems to be to get the units not to boil over
in the hot environment under the hood.

Posted by: fossten

Thanks for posting that. I had considered the run your car on water thing.

Posted by: 04SCTLS

Your welcome fossten
It works in the pic purportedly at 2ltr/min but is it enough.
Some of these kits claim to produce 5 ltr/min. A heavy duty 200 amp alt and a big battery would be nessesary to make real output and some isolation and shielding from heat would be required.
A pickup would be a perfect vehicle for this having the room under the hood.
It would take some creativity to put one of these in an LS probably where the CAI goes but maybe there's more room under the other lincolns hoods.
I checked mythbusters but some people were very disappointed in the device they built.

Posted by: 04SCTLS

and then there's this to peruse through
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...oogle+Sear ch