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2003 LS V6 Rear Main Seal

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Posted by: 03AspenGreenLS

Hello everyone, last week I purchased my first Lincoln LS, it is a 2003 LS V6 Premium. I had the oil changed on it last night, the mechanic that changed the oil mentioned that the rear main seal was covered in oil, and it would need replaced soon. Is this a common problem for the LS? The car only has 68k miles on it, I am not extremely mechanically inclined, but it seems a little early in cars life to have this serious of an issue. I am wondering if this is a problem that I should have looked into / fixed immediately, or something that I should just keep an eye on.

Posted by: NYC LS8

I would guess either leaky intake manifold or valve covers before a rear main on a car with that little mileage.

Welcome to here, BTW.

Posted by: camthman

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC LS8

I would guess either leaky intake manifold or valve covers before a rear main on a car with that little mileage.

Welcome to here, BTW.

Posted by: Apathy25TX

+2.

I had my main seal done and it was because I hit a tall speed bump at the bowling alley. My car's really good about maintaining oil levels.

Just so you know, the seal is about 15 bucks and labor was about 400 or so at the dealer. D'OH!!!

Posted by: 03AspenGreenLS

Hey Guys!

This problem has got a lot worse since I first posted about it. The car is leaking approx 1/2 cup of oil every 24-48hrs. I went to the local AutoZone, and they told me that this is a common issue with Lincoln LS's and Mark's? They sold me a quart of this "Rear Main Seal Repair" stuff that apparently mixes with your oil and "band-aid's" the issue.

Has anyone had any experience with this?
http://www.barsproducts.com/1050.htm

Posted by: NYC LS8

Good way to clog up your motor, especially if this motor has tight clearances.

I think you're the first one that has reported a rear main seal on these cars, so you're on your own pretty much. Pull the trans and have a look.

Posted by: milehighmikey

LS (V8 or V6) and Mark VIII have no related engine parts, so raise the BS flag on that expert witness.

Is there any chance of a lemon law being applied? If not, and there is no warranty, have the seal replaced. And change your oil and filter asap due to the rear main seal repair.

You actually could have a leaking oil pan, since the rear main seal is up and out of the way. The oil pan seal could be a cheap fix. The rear main seal is a transmission removal-required task, but should not be a killer for overall cost.

Try this: raise hood. Remove engine oil fill cap. Start engine. Look for excess pressure and fumes rising out of the oil fill hole. You could have a bad PCV valve causing high pressure in the crank case, which would force oil out of the easiest exit path.

Try to get that thing fixed before you run it dry and blow the engine up. Plus, all that oil is ending up on the ground, which is never a good thing. Best of luck...

Posted by: 03AspenGreenLS

Took the LS for a 2nd opinion this past weekend. They cleaned all of the oil off of the bottom of the car and had me drive it till yesterday, we then put it back on the lift and they say that they are 95% sure that it is the oil pan gasket. They say that it is going to cost approx $500 to repair it. Due to having to drop the front suspension to gain access to the oil pan and removing the AC Compressor in the process (LS V6). Does this sound about right for price?

Posted by: owlman

Yes, unfortunately it is a very involved process to drop the oil pan on the V6. They have to remove crossmembers and all sorts of serious stuff. I think one guy here got a quote for over $700 for it.

You might want to see if they (or you) can patch it with some JB weld or something first.

Posted by: LEOV5

So is the color of your LS Lt.Tundra Green Metalic, It's a great looking car.!!!!

Posted by: mharrison

Quote:

Originally Posted by owlman

You might want to see if they (or you) can patch it with some JB weld or something first.

I would say that patching a gasket leak with JBWeld is a VERY BAD IDEA. You've now made a relatively small problem a HUGE problem by having your oil pan affixed to your engine block with JB Weld. I'm not sure if the oil pan is aluminum or not, but JBWeld and aluminum is even worse. I would also still expect it to leak. JB Weld is great for many structural repairs, but not so great at building a leak proof seal in an oil soaked environment. You may also find that nobody wants to work on it after that, or if they agree to, you will pay a premium.

The only band-aid solution I'd even consider would be cleaning the heck out of it until you're sure it's super clean, then doing it all again and trying to patch the gasket leak with some RTV silicone sealant. I would also expect this to continue to leak as well, although it *might* slow it down a bit.

If you *patch* a leak, you never know when you will run low or out of oil without you knowing it, and cause your engine to seize. Running low for extended periods even without an engine seizure will cause undue wear on engine components as well.

Personally, I'd drop the cross member, pull the pan, and put a new gasket on myself or have it repaired. But considering this a DIY job would depend on your mechanical abilities.

Posted by: owlman

Oops, I misread and thought it was a hole in the oil pan itself, not the gasket! Yeah don't weld the pan to the engine

Posted by: mharrison

Quote:

Originally Posted by owlman

Oops, I misread and thought it was a hole in the oil pan itself, not the gasket! Yeah don't weld the pan to the engine

I have to admit, your JB Weld post didn't sound as good as your usual advice!

Posted by: milehighmikey

The oil pan is cast aluminum. I think that I would also try to degrease it all and lightly spray warm water around its interface area with the main engine block, then see about lowering it to try an RTV (Silicone) injection, layering RTV in on the tip of a finger, then put it all back together.

I would First verify that there is not excessive crankcase pressure in that engine by starting it, idling it, then removing the oil fill cap to check for pressure. Then, if no pressure was present, increase the engine RPM to mid-range while still checking the oil fill inlet for blow-by. If it is blow-by, the gasket on the pan may be ok and a new PCV hose and PCV valve would be needed to allow the pressure to vent normally.

I had a Volvo that did that... It had a thing called a flame trap (I think) that acted as a PCV. It was built like a cigarette lighter with the wound thin metal all coiled into a cylinder, and it crusted up with sludge at an early age. That caused a huge oil leak, which was caused by excess crankcase pressure. It pushed oil out the camshaft seal and also past the valve stem seals inside, which made smoke in the exhaust on high rpm coasts. All it was was this little PCV valve type object, which allowed the pressure to build inside when the engine speed built up. The oil just happened to find its way out the path of least resistance and restoring the normal crankcase pressure ventilation path completely cured the issue.

The V6 LS is known for melting its PCV hose and it is not possible to see it without tearing down the upper and lower air intake assembly.

By the way, I got an email from a friend and never saw it posted here... There is now a TSB for the melting PCV hoses on the V6, which goes to 80 or 100K miles (as I recall) but also extends past that in some cases... oh here is the text...

LINCOLN

The warranty on the P.C.V. hose assemblies on some LS sedans with Duratec 3-liter engines has been extended. In TSB 08N01 issued on March 9, the Ford Motor Company notes that assemblies may come loose in normal operation, so the part is now under warranty for 10 years or 100,000 miles. Also, the warranty has been extended until Sept. 30 for vehicles already past the 100,000-mile mark. Rough running and trouble starting or idling are some symptoms of this problem; a new P.C.V. hose assembly may be installed.

Posted by: mharrison

Yep, at about 120k the PCV hose on mine completely collapsed. I couldn't believe that you have to pull the intake to do PCV maintenance! All in all it isn't that bad a job. I'd be surprised it that collapsed on his without throwing a CEL though.