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Shell Rotella 15W40 Motor Oil

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Posted by: Glorywagon

Well took the mobil one syn.oil out of the Mark VIII yesterday no more engine knock or chain rattle at start up. Installed Shell Rotella 15W40 Motor Oil . So we will see what happens.
Now all my cars are on the same oil.

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

The engine wasn't designed for an oil that thick. May do more harm than good in the long run.

Timing chain rattle is due to tensioner oil leak down, obviously the thicker oil will take longer to drain back, hence less rattle.

Posted by: unity

Ford TSB calls for 5W-20. They even moved away from 30 weight although its okay to run 30 in warmer climates. No clue where Greenbrier is, but unless you are in the severe south I would not recomment it.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by unity

Ford TSB calls for 5W-20. They even moved away from 30 weight although its okay to run 30 in warmer climates. No clue where Greenbrier is, but unless you are in the severe south I would not recomment it.

Note below sorry

Posted by: bryantaylor

rotella is GREAT oil. i run it in all my cars now. dont be alarmed when it gets really dark, its supposed to do that.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by unity

5W-20 seems very thin.

Posted by: Glorywagon

[quote=bryantaylor;394937]rotella is GREAT oil. i run it in all my cars now. dont be alarmed when it gets really dark, its supposed to do that.[/QUOTE

I'm gonna leave the Rotella in the car. I run it in my other cars with no problems. My shop says its ok FORD says its ok. sent e mail to Rotella waiting on ans.
There is no rattle on start up after setting 30 hours and that can't be all bad.

So you can all say I TOLD YOU SO.

E MAIL FROM ROTELLA

Danny,
I believe Ford recommends 5W30 for this engine now, but I would not expect a problem with Rotella 15W-40, provided you are not concerned with the low temperature advantages provided by the "5W". If there is a something about that engine that is a problem, we don't know about it.

We do have Rotella Synthetic 5W40 also if you would like to stay with a synthetic.

Thank you for your interest in Shell products.

Regards,

Keith Perry
Technical Information Center

Customer Service: (800) 840-5737

Posted by: unity

http://www.diesel-dave.com/tsb/t20109.htm

Posted by: Glorywagon

When they first built this motor in 1993 did they even have a 5W-30 or 5W-20 ?

Posted by: 94m5

I dunno, my Powerstroke seems to like it.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94m5

I dunno, my Powerstroke seems to like it.

Ive been running it in my E-150 van with a 5.4 motor with no problems for 70,000 miles. In general they are about the same motor.

Posted by: shiryu0

10w40 mobil 1 here, no problems, we run 10w40 in all our cars, desert

Posted by: Moes8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

When they first built this motor in 1993 did they even have a 5W-30 or 5W-20 ?

dont know about 5w20 but 5w30 has been around a lot longer than this motor

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moes8

dont know about 5w20 but 5w30 has been around a lot longer than this motor

I never heard anyone using it till I bought a Mark VIII

Here is what Rotella told me when I e mailed them.

Danny,
I believe Ford recommends 5W30 for this engine now, but I would not expect a problem with Rotella 15W-40, provided you are not concerned with the low temperature advantages provided by the "5W". If there is a something about that engine that is a problem, we don't know about it.

We do have Rotella Synthetic 5W40 also if you would like to stay with a synthetic.

Thank you for your interest in Shell products.

Regards,

Keith Perry
Technical Information Center

Customer Service: (800) 840-5737
Technical Support: (800) 231-6950

Website, Shell Lubricants, USA:
http://www.shell.us/home/page/usa/pr...oducts_08.html

-----Original Message-----
From: glorywagon@windstream.net [mailto:glorywagon@windstream.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:17 PM
To: askshell, SLUBE-GSMR/5
Subject: Rotella Ask Our Expert: Gasoline Engines

------------------------------------------------
ROTELLA.com E-mail Form
------------------------------------------------
NAME Danny
E-MAIL ADDRESS glorywagon@windstream.net
SUBJECT Gasoline Engines
COMMENTS
----------------------------------------------
I just changed my oil on my 1995 Lincoln Mark VIII from Mobil one syn. oil to Rotella T 15w 40.
Do you have any problem with the change? I run Rotella T in all my other cars with out any problems. But someone said not to run it in a 1995 Mark VIII that I will burn the engine Up. Thank You Danny
----------------------------------------------

Posted by: Roadboss

The higher viscosity just adds more stress at the bearing surfaces. This maybe a mute point in some cases where an engine has alot of wear on it, but when put into a new or near new there could be premautre bearing failure. The rationale is that the newer engines are now machine to much closer machining tolerances so a lighter viscosity oil is needed to get into those areas. Trying to force a higher visc. in there stresses the oil pump and the bearing shells. I have had big block Fords machined with a lot of bearing clearance (lets engine spin easier = more HP) and using 50 or 60 weight oil was common, because the was a lot of void to fill.
I would not put the heavy Rotella oil in my Modular motors, but that certainly is a free choice you can make. Just my 2 cents

Posted by: bryantaylor

just a FYI, i curently have the 15w40 in my turbo miata. it took away any lifter tick i had, and it also gave me higher oil pressure.

its made for turbo deisel workhorses that run for hours on end, the stress from towing loads, and the TON of heat from the oil going through the turbo. i would think that would be much harder on a oil than a N/A street driven gas motor.

Posted by: turborich

I would really stick with the 5-w30 or 5-w20 with the modular engine. It is recomended for a reason.

Posted by: Roadboss

It's the viscosity that I have issue with, not so much the chemistry.

Posted by: Sal329

BMW uses a 10w60 oil in their M cars. They have small areas where oil needs to pass through. Maybe they upgreaded the oil pumps to handle the stress?
Bentley and Rolls uses Mobil 15w50 oil. I have always understood Ford using 5w20 to get better gas mileage out of their cars do to new EPA standards.

Posted by: 94m5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

Ive been running it in my E-150 van with a 5.4 motor with no problems for 70,000 miles. In general they are about the same motor.

Sorry to skew off topic a bit, but how is a 5.4L gas motor anything like a 7.3L Powerstroke?

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94m5

Sorry to skew off topic a bit, but how is a 5.4L gas motor anything like a 7.3L Powerstroke?

Its a Gas modular motor.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

Ive been running it in my E-150 van with a 5.4 motor with no problems for 70,000 miles. In general they are about the same motor.

I mean the same as the Mark Viii not diesel.

Posted by: Tiltedhalo

5W30 is the warranty recommended oil, Ford changed to 5W20 for fuel economy reasons. You should not have any problems running thicker oil now but 20K miles down the road when the oil pump takes a dump and the back cam gallery's are oil starved and get torn up well you get the idea. The Mark VIII and Cobra SVT's oil systems where designed to use light weight oils, high pressure high volume and oil channels to keep pressures up at high RPM's. Heavy oils put strain on the pump and do not flow to parts of the engine at low RPM's as easily as light oil.
Never use 20W50 unless the motors been built for it. If your motor has high millage and getting a little loose 10W30 to 10W40 wont ever be a problem.

Posted by: vr4

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryantaylor

just a FYI, i curently have the 15w40 in my turbo miata. it took away any lifter tick i had, and it also gave me higher oil pressure.

its made for turbo deisel workhorses that run for hours on end, the stress from towing loads, and the TON of heat from the oil going through the turbo. i would think that would be much harder on a oil than a N/A street driven gas motor.

youre getting higher pressure at the sender but do you know how much oil is actually reaching your bearings and head?

pressure is caused by a restriction to flow.

i would STRONGLY reccomend going back to 5w20 or 5w30. rotella is a great oil but 15w40 is just too thick.

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

provided you are not concerned with the low temperature advantages provided by the "5W". If there is a something about that engine that is a problem, we don't know about it.
----

the rep left you a "cover his ass statement" right in his message.

the 5W and the 10W oils will "reach critical areas" quicker at low temperatures

IF you dont need the oil to "get there quickly" when the temps are very cold..
then you should be fine.

Myself... 10W is as high as I'm gonna run.
My previous 360,000 mile 4.6 still had crosshatch in the cylinder walls when the secondary cam chain tensioner failed.

Then again I live in the deep south, we might have a week of freezing temps in a year

Posted by: MonsterMark

Bye Bye motor.

Should we start a pool to predict the eventually demise of this motor. Winner takes all for the closest mileage guess?

Posted by: mnmridg

He say's "no more engine knock..."

It was on it's way out anyway. Just prolonging the inevitable.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

I'll go lighter oil in the winter months.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Bye Bye motor.

Should we start a pool to predict the eventually demise of this motor. Winner takes all for the closest mileage guess?

You all talk a good talk but where's the (FACTS).All I see is hear say.
I call the local Ford dealer they said I'm ok .
Called my shop they said Ok
E mailed Shell they said ok .
And this is all hear say too no Facts.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnmridg

He say's "no more engine knock..."

It was on it's way out anyway. Just prolonging the inevitable.

Engine knock or rattle ? Then most of you are too. Most say they have timing chain rattle.
If it is a rod or main knock then it needs the heavier oil to make it last longer. when it blows it becomes salvage. The car has 125,000 miles on it and if the Mobil one syn. was doing its job it woun't have a knock or rattle. So maybe we can take a raffle on your motor how long it will last.

Posted by: NYC LS8

I'll go with August 27th.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Bye Bye motor.

Should we start a pool to predict the eventually demise of this motor. Winner takes all for the closest mileage guess?

You might have a long wait we only put about 6000 miles a year on a car.
We only go to town 6 miles round trip. A trip to the VA hosp. once a month to see my heart doctor.

Maybe you should predict how long my Heart will last that might be easier. The doctor did. He said one year and its been 5 years ago.

If your so sure I will give you the car at 250,000 if it blow free.If it don't blow before the 250,000 you will give me $4000.00 for the car.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC LS8

I'll go with August 27th.

kidds

Posted by: NYC LS8

I have none, thank God.

Posted by: JoshMcMadMac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

There is obviously nothing anyone can say to change your mind. Unfortunately, you have your roles reversed in regards to hearsay. You are just taking the word of professionals, yet they have not given you any facts, just talk.

You think that Shell oil is the best out there based on your opinion. I know that Mobil1 is a better oil, as Kit Sullivan is a guy that does oil for a living and has shared unbiased, third party, reputable studies that show where that motor oil stands...and it is far-and-away better than Shell.

Your argument about using heavier oil in other engines also does not hold any weight. Just because you get away with it on one or two vehicles does not mean it is okay everywhere. You say that your son has a diesel with 1.3 million miles on it using this oil...great! 15W-40 is common oil for diesel! Not for gasoline engines! FACT is that the lighter viscosity oil is needed for these engines, as that is how they are designed. Ford does not recommend an oil arbitrarily, they recommend it because it is the best option for the motor. They certainly do not go through the hassle, and especially the blemish on their reputation, to issue a TSB without solid FACTS to back it up.

As I said, I am sure there is nothing we can do or say to change your mind. Good luck, and I hope you listen to your doctor more than you do to those who designed your vehicles.

Posted by: unity

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

Engine knock or rattle ? Then most of you are too. Most say they have timing chain rattle.

Um. Most of use do NOT have rattle. But it probably affects a few of us here, the solution is an anti-drain back filter not changing oil to something that will not properly lubricate the engine.

But its your engine so do with as you see fit! Heck my Honda with 235k ran without oil but I did not car about that car, the Mark I do!

Posted by: Tiltedhalo

NO FACTS?? what Ford dealerships service center goes against Fords TSB? goes against the engineers that designed the engine? What do you think the manufactures of the oil are going to tell you? no don't by are oil! Does your shop deal with just DOHC 4.6L Mod motors?
Don't take me the wrong way, what I am saying is there is a reason for the use of 5W20 and 30 oil in these engines. As longevity of the engines became a concern engineers built with tighter tolerances, tighter tolerances mean lighter oil at cold engine start up to flow properly. I.E. I have a 2000 Town car with 196K miles on it I had a slight rattle at start up I put in 20W50 and it got worse I ran 10W 30 synth before. I switched to 5W20 and no more rattle and I live in southern Florida.
If your motor has loose bearings allot of wear ect. using heavier weight oil wont hurt, but I had a few of these motors apart with 150K plus mile and they were still factory spec!
A lot of these motors with proper service will make 300K miles, so ever wounder why so many hit the junk yards with only 100K??

Posted by: Glorywagon

Hey this forum could get boring. You need guys like me to keep your blood pressure up. As you can see I love to argue.
Take care my friends And God Bless You all. Danny

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

You might have a long wait we only put about 6000 miles a year on a car.
.

You said you got 70K out of a van with a 5.4 and you only put 6K a year on the mark 8?

you should change the title of your post to..

I put rotella in my vehicles while they are parked for most of the year(grins)

Posted by: Hammerdinz

It will probably clean your motor better than gasoline engine oil.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammerdinz

It will probably clean your motor better than gasoline engine oil.

Gasoline engine oil ???

Several years ago We use to race dirt track 283 chev. powerglide keep tearing the trans. up about once a month. The trans. man said run 90 W gear lub in the automatic trans. I thought he was craze but he would warrant it.So we did and Never tore up another Automatic. I don't mean go out and put 90W in your car but it worked for us.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote from another forum.Thanks to 95 cont.

Here is one ball in your court, the Ford GT with the supercharged 5.4L modular engine uses 5W50. They say it has similar heads to the mustang SVT cobra R, a modular derivative. Still the cold startup number is very low.

Posted by: unity

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

Quote from another forum.Thanks to 95 cont.

Here is one ball in your court, the Ford GT with the supercharged 5.4L modular engine uses 5W50. They say it has similar heads to the mustang SVT cobra R, a modular derivative. Still the cold startup number is very low.

How about we stop comparing similar engines and compare the same.

Its not about the cranks and crap, its about the tolerances used. The 4.6L is a very tight engine, the 5.4L is not by design.

Posted by: bryantaylor

Quote:

Originally Posted by vr4

youre getting higher pressure at the sender but do you know how much oil is actually reaching your bearings and head?

seeing how the lifters would tick with regualr 5w30 and they dont with the rotella, its clear they are getting plenty of oil.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner. I had a meeting with attorneys this morning that ran into the late afternoon. Funny thing is, it was about motor oil. We happen to be working with one of the largest oil terminals in the United States for distribution rights for ingredients for our oil additives. Not saying I am an expert but we do sell a whole heck of a lot of oil for very expensive motors, so it pays for us to know a little bit about what we are discussing here.

The engine in the Lincoln MarkVIII is part of Ford's modular family of OverHead Cam Motors. These happen to be interference engines, ie: built to some extremely tight tolerances. Ford recommended the 5W30, and now the 5W20 oils not only for emission purposes, ie: less oil buring in the combustion chamber and going out the exhaust pipe, but also for longevity.

Putting 15W40 into an interference engine is like putting in a shake where water should be. The oil is pumped up through the timing chains which fill out the tensioners, the balance of the oil feeds thru the center of the cams which have extremely tight tolerances. Basically the cams run on the thin layer of oil and that's it.

If any of the oil galleries plug up with the sludge you are using, chances are you are going to shear some timing gears.

And the guy that posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93' Blue on blue

Timing chain rattle is due to tensioner oil leak down, obviously the thicker oil will take longer to drain back, hence less rattle.

And there is your reason for your reduction in the rattle. The thick crap takes longer to drain out. But you are creating other problems that obviously will take at least some time to manifest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryantaylor

rotella is GREAT oil. i run it in all my cars now. dont be alarmed when it gets really dark, its supposed to do that.

And this guy is a little misinformed. Ever turn the oil in the drying pan up too high? What happens? Oil turns black. Same in an engine. Oil turning black means it is breaking down. It has reached its 'shear' point. The oil is basically crap at that point. Not a good thing. Half the oils sold nowadays have moly and teflon in them. The moly turns to grit and the teflon turns black.

What does your oil look like when you change it out? Run a magnet thru the oil and see how many filings you collect. Everytime you start that engine cold, it takes that much longer for the oil to get into the cam passages. More wear.

You need the thin oil to flush the passages of debris and dirt. What you are doing with the heavy stuff is a slow death. And if you should happen to plug an oil passage, you will experience a sudden suicide. It will be interesting should you ever decide to pull the valve covers. I bet they will be coated with a black goo. I recently pulled a pair on a long term test we conducted that were clean like they just came out of the factory.

Listen, you might be fine for a while with what you are doing but the motor will defintely not last as long as if you were using the proper weight oil. What are your head temps with the new heavier oil? What are the oil temps? Those numbers will tell you more about what is happening in that motor than anything Shell is going to tell you on the phone.

Not to change the subject, but 94M5 asked about a powerstroke. Why does a 7.3L diesel motor have a 14 qt oil capacity versus a 6 qt capacity in a gas engine and how many rpms do the 2 motors turn? Answering that question will lead you to why you should not be using a 15W40 in this motor.

Just my 2cents worth.

Posted by: Jeffguy11

i run 80w90 so the car wont burn as much oil.... i figured if it worked in my 66 mustang toploader 4speed, it should do just fine in my mark viii.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Monster Mark
Thank you you made more sense . Oil will be removed from all my cars at oil changing time.

even my 88 tc my jeep and the e-150.Now what non syn. oil do you suggest?

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

even my 88 tc my jeep and the e-150.

I'd have to look up the specs on those vehicles. Know nothing about the Jeep. What motor/year is in the E-150?

All I'm saying about the Lincoln is you are probably doing more harm (15w40) than good (5w20/30) so why stick with that philosophy?

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

jeep 96 4.0 inline 6
van is a 5.4 98 model. Tc is a 5.0 thank you for the trouble. Danny

Posted by: bryantaylor

monster mike

conserning the oil getting black, deisel oil is very high detergent, thats why it gets black. wash something dirty with plain water, then with soap and water, which water is dirtier afterwards?

people in the performance world have been usuing deisel oil for years, show me 1 failure because of it.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryantaylor

ryan, answer your own questions. Why is diesel oil a very high detergent oil in the first place? What are the tolerances run in a diesel engine vs a gas engine? What are the temps that are run?

Posted by: Glorywagon

I quite I never seen anyone burn up an engine using RotellaT 15W-40 A diesel with a turbo is a he-- of a lot hotter then a gasoline and I don't believe they would be using it if it was burnt.Sorry MonsterMark you lost on that one. Have a good one.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

van is a 5.4 98 model. Tc is a 5.0 thank you for the trouble. Danny

The Ford TSB 02-1-9 shows the recommended use of 5W30, or (5W20 for better fuel economy) for all E-Series Vans.

For the MarkVI, the 'ol standby 10W30 would be appropriate for use in the WV climes.

The Jeep Grand Cherokee should run 10W30.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

What are the tolerances between the motors and why do you think they have 2-1/2 times the oil capacity?

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

Sorry MonsterMark you lost on that one. Have a good one.

LOL. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

Posted by: bryantaylor

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Why is diesel oil a very high detergent oil in the first place?

because of all of the soot they produce

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

What are the tolerances run in a diesel engine vs a gas engine?

the average diesel motor is over 14:1 comp, average gas is about 9.5:1, and last easily 4 times as long. i think the diesel has a little tighter tolerences

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

What are the temps that are run?

oil temps get up there because of the turbo. most gas motors are not turbo.

Posted by: Glorywagon

All I know is that my Mark VIII got quieter then it has ever been under my ownership.
What the hel_ its just a $1200.00 old Lincoln.Not a $60,000.00 Car. My saying is Drive them and junk them.

Thats All folks

Posted by: The Rev

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

What the hel_ its just a $1200.00 old Lincoln.Not a $60,000.00 Car. My saying is Drive them and junk them.

Thats All folks

Seems your putting a lot of money into this car you plan on junking.
-Coilovers
-Looking for new rims

Those are two very expensive propositions for a car that (like you said) your just going to junk.

Don't be ashamed of your mistake, but if your looking to blow an engine just do what I did; replace the water pump and don't bleed the system properly and overheat til the engine ticks and knocks and wont start.

I'll admit I screwed up, I'll also admit my Mark is nicknamed "the black hole" because of all the time, money, and gas it sucks up.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryantaylor

the average diesel motor is over 14:1 comp, average gas is about 9.5:1, and last easily 4 times as long. i think the diesel has a little tighter tolerences

Nothing to do with tolerances.

The high durability of a diesel engine has more to do with the fact that they are overbuilt and the diesel creates smaller changes in cylinder pressure when compared to a gas engine, and also the fact that the diesel has much lower rotating speeds, so the parts can be heavier. Because of the high-compression ratios and resulting high cylinder pressure in diesel engines, they must be built to withstand more punishment than gas engines. The beefier parts include a thicker block and cylinder heads and stronger connecting rods, pistons, crankshaft, and valves. And a little discovery about how much more a diesel costs vs a gas engine might tell you more about the components used.

Diesel fuel is also a better lubricant than gasoline so is less harmful to the oil film on piston rings and cylinder bores.

But you are correct to know that the oils used in diesels are higher detergent because of the soot particulate that they create.

But, diesels don’t necessarily last longer. They tend to have more miles put on per year and the number of years is more a measure of longevity. Plus, diesels are run for thousands of hours because they often are run continuously without ever being shut down, or shut down only infrequently. This is what really accounts for the long life. Gas engines tend to be started much more frequently and everyone knows cold startup is where 80% of the wear occurs. Diesels also require stricter oil change intervals due to the wear on the oil, thus the larger oil capacities for the motors. More oil breaks down slower, but it still breaks down.

Posted by: bryantaylor

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Diesel fuel is also a better lubricant than gasoline so is less harmful to the oil film on piston rings and cylinder bores.

right on, thats why its commonly refered to as "fuel oil"

Posted by: vr4

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryantaylor

monster mike

conserning the oil getting black, deisel oil is very high detergent, thats why it gets black. wash something dirty with plain water, then with soap and water, which water is dirtier afterwards?

people in the performance world have been usuing deisel oil for years, show me 1 failure because of it.

i run diesel oil (motorcraft 15w40) in my 3000gt and it doesnt get black too quickly.

diesel oil only gets black quickly IN A DIESEL. there is a reason for that. you want high detergents? drop a bottle of mercon V in your crankcase and drain in a week.

Posted by: bryantaylor

Quote:

Originally Posted by vr4

you want high detergents? drop a bottle of mercon V in your crankcase and drain in a week.

and that works very well too. also, a quart of ATF in a full tank of gas helps to clean up the build-up on your intake ports/valves

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rev

I'm not putting on new rims? I am gonna change the door and fender tho.Coil conversion about the price of a couple of air bags. I can resale the parts after all I use to have a salvage yard and still have about 50 classic junk cars.But thats all they are is Salvage. The only car I'm really fixing is My 81 Mark VI The others are just drivers.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by monstermark

But, diesels don’t necessarily last longer. They tend to have more miles put on per year and the number of years is more a measure of longevity. Plus, diesels are run for thousands of hours because they often are run continuously without ever being shut down, or shut down only infrequently. This is what really accounts for the long life. Gas engines tend to be started much more frequently and everyone knows cold startup is where 80% of the wear occurs. Diesels also require stricter oil change intervals due to the wear on the oil, thus the larger oil capacities for the motors. More oil breaks down slower, but it still breaks down.

You might know your oil but I don't belive you know much about diesel engine's in heavy equipment.
My son has 3 semis year 1995 1997 1985 all have over a Million miles on the. And they do run a 400 mile radius of Little Rock Ar. They Idell about 8 hours a day. So they not only have miles they also have lots of idell time.
We change oil every 15,000 mile. 10 gallon Rotella 15W-40 per truck. I have never drained burnt oil from these trucks. I know company's that don't change there oil but every 30,000 miles.

If cold starts are what screws up a gas motor. Then it seems like a oil that don't all drain back to the pan would be better. Lucas oil company claims no dry starts.

As far as Ford knows everything why are there engine blowing spark plugs? My owners manual doesn't say 5W-20 Does yours?
I"ll bet Nascar don't use a 5W-20 . Humm maybe I will ask Mark Martin . I drove for his Dad Julian for five years.
Do you know your major trucking co. will mix there used motor oil with diesel and burn it in there trucks.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryantaylor

and that works very well too. also, a quart of ATF in a full tank of gas helps to clean up the build-up on your intake ports/valves

Hey if you add a quart of transmission fluid to your 15W-40 woun't you have the same thing as a 5W-30 ? I don't want to argue the point . Was just wondering.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

You might know your oil but I don't belive you know much about diesel engine's in heavy equipment.

Funny, we just had one of the largest engine manufacturers in the world complete a study that took over a year to complete with our additive. Used Valvoline SAE 30 as the baseline. Minimum engine gains of 2% horsepower with maximum average gains of almost 10% were realized after over 20 tests (all computer and environmental controlled pulls). All I'm going to say.

And one of the top universities in the United States recently completed a kinematic viscosity test using a Cannon viscosity tester on our stuff. Let me paraphrase their conclusion without breaching confidentiality: 'It can be concluded that during testing, oil viscosity breakdown did not occur...... The oil shows great potential and has gotten the attention of many.'

You might want to reread what I wrote. You seem to agree with me but yet you are arguing with all these points below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

My son has 3 semis year 1995 1997 1985 all have over a Million miles on the. And they do run a 400 mile radius of Little Rock Ar. They Idell about 8 hours a day. So they not only have miles they also have lots of idell time.

And I wrote: "They tend to have more miles put on per year and the number of years is more a measure of longevity. Plus, diesels are run for thousands of hours because they often are run continuously without ever being shut down, or shut down only infrequently. This is what really accounts for the long life."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

We change oil every 15,000 mile. 10 gallon Rotella 15W-40 per truck. I have never drained burnt oil from these trucks. I know company's that don't change there oil but every 30,000 miles.

And I wrote: "Diesels also require stricter oil change intervals due to the wear on the oil, thus the larger oil capacities for the motors. More oil breaks down slower, but it still breaks down." And we're talking 40 quarts of oil in a diesel truck engine vs 6 qts in a car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

If cold starts are what screws up a gas motor. Then it seems like a oil that don't all drain back to the pan would be better. Lucas oil company claims no dry starts.

It is not the oil, it is the film they claim they are leaving on the contact surfaces. I'll leave the claims up to the FTC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

As far as Ford knows everything why are there engine blowing spark plugs? My owners manual doesn't say 5W-20 Does yours?

Because of the short threads used on aluminum heads.

I bet your manual says 5W30 so why are you using 15W40? Because higher numbers sound better?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

I"ll bet Nascar don't use a 5W-20 . Humm maybe I will ask Mark Martin . I drove for his Dad Julian for five years.

I could tell you what Nascar uses (I won't here) because it happens to be the same stuff I sell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

Do you know your major trucking co. will mix there used motor oil with diesel and burn it in there trucks.

And that has to do with what again?

I tried to help but this seems to be going nowhere, so best of luck to you and your automotive endeavors. I'll get back to selling top-end racing components, including oil, to those in the know.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Just messing with you man. Did make a good post anyway. Catch you later on another post. Danny

Posted by: Tiltedhalo

I cant believe this whole thread is still going and going, but I love good debate.
1- physics my friends, physics and engineering. Read up its pretty basic.
2- NASCAR engines do use 20W50 oils thats the way they are built. 90 degree V8's designed 50 and 60 years ago, technology hasn't gone far there.
3- Diesels have very loose tolerances in general, the bearings need a larger oil cushion because of the higher shock loads.
4- diesels break down oil faster and they have allot of detergents to help break down deposits, but have capacities 10X lager per volume then gas engines in your family sedan.
5- Simple- use of heavy oils in late model MOD motors will cause premature damage and parts failure. Maybe not today or tomorrow or 5K, but you will greatly reduce its life span.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiltedhalo

2- NASCAR engines do use 20W50 oils thats the way they are built. 90 degree V8's designed 50 and 60 years ago, technology hasn't gone far there.

[snickers] Our additives for racing are nearly 8 times the kinematic viscosity of Mobil 1 Racing 10W40 or Amsoil High-Performance 10W40 at 40C and still approximately 5 times that at 100C.

A 'DNF' due to oil viscosity breakdown is not in our vocabulary.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Sure had to work hard to keep this post going. Hope you all have a good tomorrow. And God Bless and Good Night Danny,Sandy

Posted by: merkurmadness

I've used heavier than recomended oils in my engines that were tired.(to buy more time untill rebuild) and in every case it worked. although different parts wear faster than others it seemed to help w/rod and main bearings at the cost of cam/lifter wear.(I replace them anyway!) the problem is I was dealing w/pushrod engines and the replacment costs were low. these mod. motors cams are expensive! unless I were going to sell the car or upgrade cams I would'nt recomend going that heavy of weight oil.(time it takes to get to the rotating surfaces ie accelerated wear) just my .02

Posted by: Glorywagon

First report on oil change

My wife drove it to Lillte Rock today 60 miles.Gas mileage droped from 25.4 average to 24.2 So it will be changed asap.

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryantaylor

the average diesel motor is over 14:1 comp, average gas is about 9.5:1, and last easily 4 times as long. i think the diesel has a little tighter tolerences

Compression rations have zero to do with how small the oil galleys and passages are in a particular engine.

ALSO.. you are missing one of the key points that MonsterMark was mentioning.
There are NO cam bearings in the 4.6

the aluminum journal IS the outer cam bearing surface...ANY decrease in oil supply on start up scores these bearings, or lack there of.

Show me a diesel that has OHC with no cam bearings...

And show me a diesel that has the same oil pump design as the 4.6 mod motor.

P.S. most diesels I run into are 20:1 compression but it's still pointless in this topic.

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

First report on oil change

My wife drove it to Lillte Rock today 60 miles.Gas mileage droped from 25.4 average to 24.2 So it will be changed asap.

There are many "little" reasons to run a lighter oil.
you just hit on one of the little reasons that is getting bigger everyday.

No need to pump "west texas crude" thru there when some light sewing machine oil will do just fine.

Ever listen to a 4.6 mod motor without the accessory belt on the car?
sounds like a damned sewing machine..(lol)

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

Hey that car at 440,000 miles should have run better then
14.15@100.99 It should be broke in by now.
Hey would grandma like you taking her car to the drag strip? LOL

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryantaylor

90 miata - t3/t4, megasquirt, and much more

(off topic warning)
Megasquirt!!

Have you thought about running the mark 8 on MS?

Seems like a cool deal for those that are severly DIY inclined.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Its hard to debate with a guy that has that many miles on a Mark VIII.

95 Lincoln Mark 8
400,404 miles

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorywagon

Its hard to debate with a guy that has that many miles on a Mark VIII.

95 Lincoln Mark 8
400,404 miles

my original 95 engine lasted until 360,000 miles and it chunked a secondary cam chain tensioner (I dont consider that an oil related failure)

it ran for about 15K afterwards while I found a low mile 93 engine to replace it with.

When we pulled the 360,000 mile motor apart it still had the crosshatch in the cylinder walls.

I always used Mobil 1
I put 6000 passes on the car at the dragstrip over the course of 9 years
6000 passes is roughly 1150 miles of WOT..(lol)

Posted by: Glorywagon

Another e mail from shell oil But there getting in areas I don't understand? any way maybe you can.

Danny,
You may indeed see an improvement in mileage with synthetic vs. mineral oil. It would probably be on the order of about 1-2% and so may be hard to measure.
Concerning the oil flow, the 40 weight is more viscous by about 1/3 to 1/2, (Example at 100 degrees Centigrade: Typical 15.5 centistokes for Rotella T 15W40 vs. 10.6 centistokes for Formula Shell 10W30) so it may build a higher level in the valve area in order to drain. I do not know if this would be significant, it would depend on how small the drain back spaces are. For the same reason, the 40 weight will require additional oil pressure to create the same flow.

Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: Danny Martin [mailto:glorywagon@windstream.net]
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 10:09 AM
To: askshell, SLUBE-GSMR/5
Subject: Re: Rotella Ask Our Expert: Gasoline

Posted by: Glorywagon

Kinda nice there takeing the time to ans. my silly questions. And so are YOU.

Posted by: brentalan

Going in the other direction, what do you think about these claims that 0W-20 can be used in place of 5W-20 in our cars:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...l_1_0W-20.aspx

"Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy outperforms conventional oils and meets or exceeds warranty requirements for many Ford, Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi and Chrysler vehicles. "

"It is specifically designed for applications requiring an SAE 5W-20 oil such as most Fords, Hondas and 2005 Chryslers."

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by brentalan

Going in the other direction, what do you think about these claims that 0W-20 can be used in place of 5W-20 in our cars:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...l_1_0W-20.aspx

"Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy outperforms conventional oils and meets or exceeds warranty requirements for many Ford, Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi and Chrysler vehicles. "

"It is specifically designed for applications requiring an SAE 5W-20 oil such as most Fords, Hondas and 2005 Chryslers."

I never heard of it till yesterday. Have you tried it? But i never heard of a 5W-20 either.I guess I'm been setting still why the world passes me by.
Why not just use a straight weight like a 25W non detergent then ? Wouldn't That be a 20 weigh detergent oil?

Posted by: brentalan

I have not used it, but I'm planning to. Just wanted to see if there were any reasons not to.

Straight weight won't have the cold starting properties of a multi-viscosity.

Posted by: StankinLincoln

everything ive been tought about oil coming from working at valvoline going to school and talkin with a lot of mechanics is use what the factory recommends its the winter. in the summer you can run something a little thicker like 5/20 in winter and 5/30 in summer. never change what type of oil you use just pick one and stick with it. never switch back and forth between conventional and synthetic. even though you use the same weight the molecules are smaller in synthetic and cause find places to leak. i thought the rotella 15w40 was for diesel trucks,

Posted by: bryantaylor

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

(off topic warning)
Megasquirt!!

Have you thought about running the mark 8 on MS?

Seems like a cool deal for those that are severly DIY inclined.

i have thought about it. most of the bugs are starting to get worked out of the EDIS setups. but i will wait until i have a decent bit of mods before i even start to really look into it.

for people that dont know what megasquirt is, its a FULL standalone EMS that you can install to completly replace your stock ecu, for only $200. it really is the best thing since sliced bread.
http://megasquirt.info/

Posted by: etacet

Just from past experience 5w20 the 5 is important for cold start up it flows a lot quicker than say a 15w40 when most engine wear occurs 0w20 is even better but actually is to thick at start up. The larger number only has to be able to keep proper oil pressure at operating temperature,any larger number only consumes more fuel and puts more wear on oil pump and related parts along with less flow.I have a 7.3 powerstroke that gets better mileage and better oil analysis results with 5w40 mobil1 delvac synthetic than with rotella 15w40 although rotella is an excellent product for the price.Also when Ford started using automatic trans fluid in their F350 5 speed manuals I had a shop unknowingly replace it with a 90w gear oil.Trans was toast in less than 30 miles.Just because a heavier oil quiets a tick or a knock does not mean it is good for the rest of the motor.As the knock gets worse would you eventually use 120w gear oil.Just some common sense experience from an old timer with an open mind.

Posted by: Glorywagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by etacet

Just from past experience 5w20 the 5 is important for cold start up it flows a lot quicker than say a 15w40 when most engine wear occurs 0w20 is even better but actually is to thick at start up. The larger number only has to be able to keep proper oil pressure at operating temperature,any larger number only consumes more fuel and puts more wear on oil pump and related parts along with less flow.I have a 7.3 powerstroke that gets better mileage and better oil analysis results with 5w40 mobil1 delvac synthetic than with rotella 15w40 although rotella is an excellent product for the price.Also when Ford started using automatic trans fluid in their F350 5 speed manuals I had a shop unknowingly replace it with a 90w gear oil.Trans was toast in less than 30 miles.Just because a heavier oil quiets a tick or a knock does not mean it is good for the rest of the motor.As the knock gets worse would you eventually use 120w gear oil.Just some common sense experience from an old timer with an open mind.

Makes sense to me.

And yes Monday I'm gonna change the oil back. I lost 1 mile per gallon with the heaver oil. So I figure if the car has to use more gas to do the same job something isn't right.So you and the Mark showed me.

Posted by: mnmridg

Quote:

Originally Posted by brentalan

I used to use the Mobil 1 0W-30 in my trucks (light duty) with great results. I was also making winter trips to the Canadian border. Now that I mostly stay in Tennessee or fly home for Christmas, I have stuck with the 5W oils. For no other reason then I have had a hard time finding anyone that will special order the 0W oils for me, nobody stocks it anymore...

Posted by: brentalan

More places are stocking it now with gas prices being high. Mobil is pushing it as a fuel efficiency measure. I see them at even Wal-Mart

Posted by: 94m5

For the Record, I was'nt asking a question about the oil Bryan. Just pointing out that my Powerstroke likes Rotella ALOT more than my 94 VIII would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

P.S. most diesels I run into are 20:1 compression but it's still pointless in this topic.

Not to change topic AGAIN...... but most modern diesels are running below 20.

My Stroke is around 17 somethin IIRC. Now the older IDI 6.9-7.3 Fords were running greater than 20, along with the GM 6.2 and 6.5's.

Thank GOD those days are over.

Mike

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