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Payrolls Fall, Unemployment Rate Climbs

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Posted by: Joeychgo

Quote:

The U.S. lost jobs for a fifth month and the unemployment rate rose by the most in more than two decades, as an influx of students into the workforce drove the biggest jump in teenage joblessness since at least 1948.

Payrolls fell by 49,000 in May, the Labor Department said today in Washington. The jobless rate increased by half a point to 5.5 percent, higher than every forecast in a Bloomberg News survey.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...onc&refer=home

I know - none of this has anything to do with GW - right?

Posted by: taylor414ce2003

the Armed forces are hiring

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

I know - none of this has anything to do with GW - right?

Well, did all the previous months of growth have anything to do with GW, or do you just cherrypick the bad ones?

Posted by: Marcus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

I know - none of this has anything to do with GW - right?

No, only when the economy is up.

Posted by: Joeychgo

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB

No, only when the economy is up.

Exactly my point.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Come on Fossten, you know the liberals on this board only show up when the news is bad.

Look on the bright side...

"as an influx of students into the workforce drove the biggest jump in teenage joblessness since at least 1948."

At least all these kids can go work for free for the Obama campaign to get him elected because he has promised them all free tuition if they go overseas and work for free.

Posted by: MonsterMark

7 million new jobs since 2001. Keep lapping up the koolaid sheeple.

Can't wait for Obama to give everyone a job. The Messiah cometh.

Posted by: Joeychgo

20.4 Million New Jobs Created Under the Clinton-Gore Administration.
92 Percent -- 18.8 Million -- of the New Jobs Have Been Created in the Private Sector.

http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/New/html/20000112_1.html

Only 7 million under GW you say?

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

20.4 Million New Jobs Created Under the Clinton-Gore Administration.

LOL. I was waiting for that.

Now go figure out how many jobs were 'internet' related jobs and then calculate the number of jobs lost when the bubble burst and the internet melted down.

Lord knows I love the clinton years. Pure nirvana.

Then you should calculate the lost tax revenues for all the lost wages that were calculated to be this great 'surplus'.

You should know better Joey. You've been in business for yourself. The Clinton 'economic success' shouldn't have to be explained to you.

18 year old job interviewee during the Clinton years.

Employer: "You looking for a job? What kind of skills do you have?"

Employee: "Well, I have a Mac!"

Employer: "You're hired!"

Employee: "How much do you pay?"

Employer: "How 'bout we start you at $80K and all the pizza and mountain dew you can consume."

Employee: "Great! See you at 2:00 pm when I wake up."

Yup, the Clinton years were great.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

20.4 Million New Jobs Created Under the Clinton-Gore Administration.
92 Percent -- 18.8 Million -- of the New Jobs Have Been Created in the Private Sector.

http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/New/html/20000112_1.html

Only 7 million under GW you say?

Sorry, Joey, that dog won't hunt. You're failing to address the fact that Bush has had a net gain of jobs. You just won't admit it. So in a lame dodge, you resort to using Clinton? Really, really lame, Joey. You're the first one to cry foul whenever someone uses this tactic, so I call shenanigans. BDS is your disease, Joey.

Posted by: Joeychgo

Its really not BDS Fossten. It's more that I am tired of people who defend bush at every cost and deny everything.

To hear some people talk, GW must be the messiah. He seemingly can do no wrong, and when things prove to be bad, then it's not GW's fault.

Some people do suffer from BDS -- Bush Denial Syndrome. Deny Bush's mistakes at all costs.

Posted by: Calabrio

...

Posted by: Calabrio

I'm tired of people who blame Bush for things irrationally, and fail to attribute blame to the right people.

With rare exception, the failures of the Bush administration occur when he leans LEFT not RIGHT. His biggest failures have been bipartisan.

Lay down some specifics.
What economic policy do you take issue with. Where has he failed on the economy. If you provide specifics, then you'll get a thoughtful discussion on the subject.

Fuel Prices. High oil prices are the partially the result of bad Democrat policy (embraced by a handful of Republican) that limits our access to domestic energy. Democrat policies that prevent us from drilling or mining in the most remote parts of our country. That prevent us from building refineries. That embrace ridiculous and expensive regional fuel blends that interfere with the supply of gas. Regulation and protests that prevent the construction of nuclear power plants based on 70s era propaganda. And it's the democrats who have embraced this "green" movement based on junk science, speculation, and actively pursued by socialists. The environmentalist movement is like a watermelon, green on the outside, red on the inside.

It also has to do with our countries tendency to overspend and expect the federal government to address all the problems in our life. Some think that the feds have the power to make the country a utopia, free of need and want. No surprise, the socialist philosophy is all about making a utopia as well...

Over taxing and over regulation are the reason industry leaves the U.S. Is that GWB's fault, or is that the legislative handiwork of the Democrats as well? Which party is actually beginning to talk about socializing the oil companies?

The gross lack of understanding that most people demonstrate when discussing these issues is very frustrating. "I just paid $4/gal, George Bush screwed up, he needs to do something fast!" Well, that's not the way government works. And the President can't directly do anything about it.

And on issues of security, Bush has been a phenomenal success. It's cliche now, but it's absolutely true, on 9/12, who here honestly thought we wouldn't suffer another large attack on American soil for seven years? I didn't. I expected to spend the rest of my adult life in that state of alert we lived in immediately following that attack.

However, one of Bush's greatest failures has been his inability to communicate, educate, and persuade though. That's very frustrating and unfortunate, an enormous missed opportunity. McCain's a better, but still not dynamic enough a spokesperson to elevate the debate ABOVE the MSM as Reagan uniquely was able to do.

Posted by: Joeychgo

Yeah yeah - its always the democratic congress thats "really" at fault. But when I point out that there was a republican congress for the first 6 years of GW's turn - well, that doesnt count either.

Posted by: shagdrum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

Yeah yeah - its always the democratic congress thats "really" at fault. But when I point out that there was a republican congress for the first 6 years of GW's turn - well, that doesnt count either.

I have debunked that whole argument of "a republican congress" here, and you have yet to try to counter my argument. You simply keep asserting that Bush should be able to accomplish anything he wants with a republican congress. Can you say proof by assertion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion

Posted by: Joeychgo

Shall I go though the many posts of people giving Bush credit for a better economy a few years ago?

Not that things arent so well, its not his fault?

Please.

Posted by: shagdrum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

Shall I go though the many posts of people giving Bush credit for a better economy a few years ago?

Go for it. Cite links, though, so we can put it in context and perspective (which you most likely won't do).

Contrary to what you are claiming about some of us here (who you seem unwilling to name), we have been consistent with Bush, giving credit where it is due, and putting blame where it is due.

Quote:

Not that things aren't so well, its not his fault?

Who has said (or implied) that? When Bush is culpable, we hold him to task. But making broad claims like "things are bad", or "the economy is bad" and blaming them on Bush, is a dishonest rhetorical tactic; what your are claiming is very hard to disprove because the burden of proof is made blurry. Be specific.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

Its really not BDS Fossten. It's more that I am tired of people who defend bush at every cost and deny everything.

To hear some people talk, GW must be the messiah. He seemingly can do no wrong, and when things prove to be bad, then it's not GW's fault.

Some people do suffer from BDS -- Bush Denial Syndrome. Deny Bush's mistakes at all costs.

Look at the OP in this thread. You are trying to flip this around when you're the one who started this, trying to tie the economy to Bush. Please show me where people have defended EVERYTHING Bush has ever done. All you ever do is assert, you never prove.

There isn't a soul on this forum who does what you claim.

You, on the other hand, still have yet to praise him for one single solitary thing.

So stop projecting your photographic negative on everyone else.

Posted by: hrmwrm

lots of jobs here. as long as americans keep driving their gas guzzlers, the economy will boom here.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrmwrm

lots of jobs here. as long as americans keep driving their gas guzzlers, the economy will boom here.

I assume, since you're a member of this forum, that you drive a gas guzzling Lincoln as well. If you live in a glass house, don't throw stones.

Posted by: Jayce 1971

I'm not sure where you people live, but the headlines around here have read nothing but "layoff's" the last few years. Jobs have been shipped to: China, Mexico, anywhere where products can be built for less. This is in a town of 10k people, where the average worker is making $12-$17/hr. I've watched friends get laid off, family lose their jobs. I'm moving to N.D. myself to work for the one industry that still pays a crooked buck, petroleum. I have an opportunity most don't. This didn't start in the Bush years, it started before that. But it has certainly escallated over the past 2. Layoffs are now 40-80 people at a time and happening almost weekly. People must drive further from home to find a "livable" wage. For the average factory worker, I think that the American dream is no longer achievable. "Wellfare" wages are becoming the norm.

Posted by: MonsterMark

I just had a customer service rep quit her job from a company I buy from so she could save 16 miles round trip daily. Figure she saves about $4/day.

What I love is that the people losing these jobs will run to the Democrats for salvation when they are the very people costing them their jobs. It all boils down to government intervention in every aspect of the workplace, from the DNR to the EPA and OSHA, much less the tax laws.

Keep running to the libs and the Dems and the slide will continue.

Posted by: Jayce 1971

The layoffs have been great for the employers locally. Why should they give out cost of living raises or pay decent wages when there is growing unemployment, people willing to work for less and less every day. As the work pool rises, the wages recede. Eventually it comes down to, "Do I stay here, and try to support a family on $35K (maybe less), or do I relocate to find better employment. Once the job pool stabilizes, wages may return to former levels, but that wont be for sometime yet. Most of our local unemployment can be directly attributed to two things: 1. Outsourcing jobs to low wage countries. 2. The current recession (depression) we're in. I'm including the high fuel cost in the latter, even though we have no one to blame but our own government for the sliding U.S. dollar's value.

But the good news. Apparently SaudiArabia is growing weary of oil profits, and is going to speak to the OPEC nations about boosting productivity. Apparently, they think too mucy money is a bad thing....go figure.

Oh well, I'll have secure employment for the next ten years regardless of how much oil is selling for.

Posted by: ford nut

Quote:

Originally Posted by shagdrum

Contrary to what you are claiming about some of us here (who you seem unwilling to name), we have been consistent with Bush, giving credit where it is due, and putting blame where it is due.

Ok I am going to have to bite on this one shag.
Please tell me what blame are you willing to pin on Bush ?

Give me the short list.

Posted by: shagdrum

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford nut

Ok I am going to have to bite on this one shag.
Please tell me what blame are you willing to pin on Bush ?

Give me the short list.

Off the top of my head?

Deficit spending/national debt
Immigration/amnesty
lousy rebuilding of Iraq
No Child Left Behind
E85 (Ethanol) sham
Loss of House and Senate in 2006 election (see the Immigration/Amnesty issue)

Those are all I can think of at the moment.

Posted by: MAC1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

I know - none of this has anything to do with GW - right?

Hey Joey, and it has nothing to do with a democrat controlled congress either, right?

You know, the same democrats that promised to do great things after taking over congress in 2006. What great things have they done--NOTHING!! Instead, the first thing they did was launch investigation after investigation. And they continue with the same crap to this day. That's why congress had at one time an 11% approval rating--lower than Bush has ever been.

Now, Dennis Kucinich (D-LOOSER-OH) introduced articles of impeachment.

What about the oil crises? Oh..right...democrats created it by blocking Gulf of Mexico drilling, processing oil shale and coal. In fact, democrats just block another ANWR bill.

So, what was your little sarcastic GW comment?

WAKE UP!

Posted by: Joeychgo

Uh, we didnt get into this economy in just the last 16 months - and we have 6 years of republican controlled congress before that. SO dont even try to blame the dems in congress for the current economic woes.

Posted by: MAC1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

Uh, we didnt get into this economy in just the last 16 months - and we have 6 years of republican controlled congress before that. SO dont even try to blame the dems in congress for the current economic woes.

WHAT?

Where have you been.

Please give me your stats to prove you point.

As fossten says...Jeopardy Clock...........

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

SO dont even try to blame the dems in congress for the current economic woes.

Gas was $2.20 gal when the Dems ran on a campaign promise to fix it. Now it is $4.00 and climbing.

BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS, BDS,

Posted by: shagdrum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

More proof by assertion...

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford nut

Ok I am going to have to bite on this one shag.
Please tell me what blame are you willing to pin on Bush ?

Give me the short list.

Department of Homeland Security, Shamnesty, appointing a gun grabber as head of the ATF and attorney general, massive spending increases, fighting a politically correct war, Harriet Miers, the Transcontinental Highway, caving to global warming.

That good enough of a start?

Try searching the forums for all the times when I've criticized Bush before you roll your eyes.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

I would argue that the minimum wage increase has had the most immediate and direct effect on payrolls and the economy. You can thank the Dem Congress for that one. And the media. And Bush. Min wage increases are nothing but tax increases on the poor.

Posted by: ford nut

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford nut

Ok I am going to have to bite on this one shag.
Please tell me what blame are you willing to pin on Bush ?

Give me the short list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shagdrum

Looks like a good start.

I think Bush has tryed to get something going when it comes to Immigration/amnesty.

”America needs to secure our borders -- and with your help, my administration is taking steps to do so. We're increasing worksite enforcement, deploying fences and advanced technologies to stop illegal crossings. We've effectively ended the policy of "catch and release" at the border, and by the end of this year, we will have doubled the number of border patrol agents. Yet we also need to acknowledge that we will never fully secure our border until we create a lawful way for foreign workers to come here and support our economy. This will take pressure off the border and allow law enforcement to concentrate on those who mean us harm. We must also find a sensible and humane way to deal with people here illegally. Illegal immigration is complicated, but it can be resolved. And it must be resolved in a way that upholds both our laws and our highest ideals.”

President George W. Bush
January 28, 2008

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/immigration/

Cant you just blame congress for the failed Immigration/amnesty problem ?

Legal immigration is one of the top concerns of the American people and Congress's failure to act on it is a disappointment. The American people understand the status quo is unacceptable when it comes to our immigration laws. A lot of us worked hard to see if we couldn't find a common ground -- it didn't work.

Bush June 28, 2007

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0070628-7.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

I didn't claim you have never criticized Bush fossen, matter of FACT I didn't bring YOU up at all...I asked Shag what HE thought Bush might need to be held accountable for.
Dont you have a bible study to go to.....or a gun to polish ?

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford nut

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford nut

Ok I am going to have to bite on this one shag.
Please tell me what blame are you willing to pin on Bush ?
Give me the short list.

Well, Shag wasn't talking to you either, but you felt the need to jump in, so I figured it was okay to speak out of turn.

By the way, I know you think you're clever, and you're trying to be an a-hole by insulting me, but actually I'm proud of my faith and my guns. Any time you want to see either collection up close you just let me know.

Posted by: ford nut

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

Well, Shag wasn't talking to you either, but you felt the need to jump in, so I figured it was okay to speak out of turn.

I guess I must have done something to the far right to get black balled

Kind of like Obama huh ?

OBTW I dont try to be a a$$hole I just am one sometimes just ask my ex wife.
I would love to have a faith talk sometime with you...but would have to promise me to lock up the guns.

I can handle someone pointing jesus at me but a firearm is a different story.

Posted by: MAC1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

Hey Joey, I'm still waiting for your stats as to how the slumping economy is all Bush's fault. In the meantime, how about it if I give you some facts:

In just one year …….

Remember the election in 2006?
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to $3.50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

America voted for change in 2006 and we got it!
Remember, its congress that makes law, not the President. He
has to work with what’s handed to him and constitutionally, the House of Representatives is responsible for the fiscal affairs and budget of the United States.

Taxes, whether Democrat or Republican, you will find these statistics enlightening and amazing:
Taxes under Clinton 1999 Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Taxes under Bush 2008 - Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Clinton: Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Bush: Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Clinton: Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Bush: Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Clinton: Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Bush: Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Clinton: Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Bush: Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Clinton: Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Bush: Married making 125K - tax $31,250

You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much?
1) $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments. Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77;
2) $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. Verify at:
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html;
3) $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html;
4) $12 Billion dol lars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html;
5) $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html;
6) $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html;
7) 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html;
8) $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by American taxpayers. Verify at:
http://www.uscfile.org/;
9) $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html;
10) The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US Verify at: ;
11) During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Verify at:
Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht (Note: 4.42MB PDF file)

Food for thought!

Posted by: fossten

Shag, you're wasting your time. Joey is incapable of seeing anyone else's faults because he views everything through the prism of "Bush sucks."

Even when presented with incontrovertible proof of job gains during Bush's presidency, he throws out Clinton's stats as better. When shown incontrovertible proof of the Congress screwing up our economy, he ignores the evidence and makes bogus claims about when acts by Congress supposedly take effect. When asked directly about his unwillingness to acknowledge one single good thing done by Bush, he dodges the question and accuses everyone on the planet of being a "Bush loyalist."

He denies having BDS but the evidence says different. Joey is in abject denial. This thread is proof of it. It's gone so far as to be a point of honor with him - he will not admit his BDS, but he will not say anything good about Bush.

Posted by: ford nut

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC1

Quote:

Remember, its congress that makes law, not the President

Last time I checked it has to pass over the President's desk and get signed before it becomes law.

Posted by: Calabrio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeychgo

Shall I go though the many posts of people giving Bush credit for a better economy a few years ago?

I can give you SPECIFICS regarding things Bush did that helped stimulate the economy. Specifically- TAX CUTS, and some of the things he PREVENTED from the Democrats, like Kyoto.

Now, tell me what he did, that you disagree with, that hurt the economy. And in any of those examples, did he deviate from conservative principles and achieve the approval of Democrats?

Posted by: MAC1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford nut

Did you get that in a e-mail Mac1 ?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/busin...dforchange.asp

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...s_in_2006.html

Simple fact Bush has had something to do with the problems we are facing.

Last time I checked it has to pass over the President's desk and get signed before it becomes law.

Based on the Snopes link the facts presented aren't in question. Obviously, however, the writer is sensitive to the notion that the majority democrat congress is at fault for the faulting economy. Interesting, since democrats never hesitated to fault republicans for the economic problems leading up to the 2006 elections.

But when the shoe is on the other foot Liberals cry foul. I just pointed out what has happened since democrats took over congress.

Are democrats at fault for the current economic downturn? Well, in light of the fact that right after democrats won a majority in 2006, Nancy Pelosi communicated to the American people that the newly elected democrat majority would work very hard to accomplish great things, it seems to me that instead the American people got nothing but smoke and mirrors. In fact, democrats campaigned on promises to reform congress and work hard for "change". The only change we got has been relentless investigations, accusations and more investigations. So, I'm going to hold democrats more responsible based on their promises and the fact that they have not even attempted to deliver on those promises. Now, the latest nonsense is Dennis Kucinich's (D-OH) 35 articles of impeachment against President Bush, which are a waste of time and taxpayer money. All at a time when congress has much more important things to address. So, as far as I'm concerned, the Snopes article writer can take his fallacy and put where the sun don't shine. I'm going to hold democrats to the same standards they hold republicans to.

Posted by: Calabrio

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