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Timing Chain broke 3.9l ?

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Posted by: Pat DelDuca

I think one of the timing chains may have broken on my daughter's 2000 LS
3.9l . Shop wants over $ 1,000.00 just to get into it. I'm going to try to do it myself. Does anyone know if you have to use the special tools and also once the timing marks on the crankshaft sprockets are lined up, do the camshaft sprockets go on only one way so that they are automaticly lined up? How do I know when the camshaft is in the right position?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Posted by: rickztahone

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=36762

discussion on this currently

Posted by: Pat DelDuca

Thanks, I saw that thread yesterday and it gave me some help. I spent the afternoon and got the LH camcover off and found that the plastic piece of the secondary chain tensioner broke off and wedged into the camshaft sprocket and then broke the chain. None of the exhaust valves look like they were down when it jammed so I don't think there is any damage in the head. Is there any way to replace the Secondary chain without taking the timing cover off the front of the engine?

Posted by: 97stscaddy

Im pretty sure you have to remove the sprockets to put the chain on, but there should be enough room to do that with the timing cover still on the engine.

I personally, would remove the entire cover to make sure no chunks of timing chain or tensioner fell down into the cover that may get wedged up in the chain later down the road.

Posted by: Pat DelDuca

Looks like the plastic came off in mostly one piece and is wedged between the chain and sprocket but there does seem to be a very small piece missing.
Probably best to take the front cover off. Can it be done without a lift?
Is this a common problem for the 3.9l?
There goes next weekend I guess.

Posted by: owlman

If you don't have a service manual for your year, I have one online here for 2006. If you look in the engine section it has articles on front cover removal and timing chain repair. Obviously it is going to be somewhat different for 2000 but it might help. Good luck!

Posted by: 97stscaddy

The gist of it should be the same for the 2000, but it will be a little simpler because you don't have to mess with any of the VVT components that the 06 has.

Posted by: Pat DelDuca

I have an online manual but yours is a lot clearer. It explained something I wasn't sure about. Thanks very much. The secondary chain tensioner looks different on the 2006 Ford must have realized the original tensioner design was no good and changed it?

Posted by: clubairth

I have wondered about this too?? I also follow the Jaguar S Type R boards. Jaguar has had three different timing tensioner designs for the AJ-V8 engine. The last coming out in 2003 when the engine was increased to 4.2L. I have not been able to find out if the updated tensioner parts where applied to the LS 3.9 when VVT was added in 2003? I do know the timing chain itself was upgraded to a "silent" Shubuta (not sure of the spelling here?) brand chain from Japan. But was told that this was for reducing engine noise more than anything else?

The LS timing chains don't break often but we are seeing more of this as the miles build up. Also more engine noises which can be a sign of worn/loose tensioners. Has anyone seen or heard of a Gen II (2003-2006) LS breaking a timing chain?
Maybe the tensioners should be changed after so many miles?
.
.
.

Posted by: Pat DelDuca

After researching further I found a Jaguar service site that had pictures of the plastic tensioners with cracks warning that they recommend them being changed. It showed the primary & secondary chain tensioners with stress cracks. The plastic lets go and jams the gear which snaps the chain. Would recommend anyone with a higher mileage 3.9l to replace the tensioners. Too late for me. I phoned Lincoln customer relations and of course THEY'VE never heard of this problem and could not help me.

If anyone has a set of chains and tensioners they want to get rid of let me know please. Thanks

Posted by: sstinman

i am in the middle of this chain project and you do have to remove the cover (and about everything else to get cover off) to get the new chains on. I thought maybe I could cheat and loosen the cams and slide the secondary chain from the rear. No luck, Primary chains under too much presure to allow any moving of cam from cradles. The altenerator, power steering pump and hydraulic fan pump and brackets all attach to the side of the front cover so all that must come off before the front cover. It is not overwhelming yet but a lot of stuff to remove to get to what you want to work on.

Hope you don't have to have it soon for transportation. Or you better have a big chunk of time to dedicate it.

Posted by: Pat DelDuca

Yeah thought I could slip the chain from behind too but you're right, can't lift the cam to do it. We have two other vehilces, the lincoln is my daughters car. It's her first car, she's very upset because she takes good care of it, she doesn't have the kind of money to get this fixed. The manual says it's 15 hours to do the chains. It will probably take me 15 days. Hey I'm an accountant not a mechanic. If you have any pointers or shortcuts let me know.
Thanks.

Posted by: sstinman

I will let you know as I go I am sort of posting info on 3 different threads here keeping up with different original posts. I ordered a chain and tensioner for the right bank. From Team Ford online parts. The tensioner was the wrong one. Their online catalog was in error They are fixing it Bill Jenkins there was very helpful when I called. Now I am waiting for the right part. I still don't have the front cover removed. I was hoping to not have to take it off completely. The bolts on the side holding all the pumps and alt are very hard to get to. My main advise is to be very patient and creative. I am not a professional mechanic actually a Sheet Metalworker by trade but am In Manufacturing Engineering now. I do how ever consider myself to be a better than average "Shade tree" mechanic. if you look at my picture gallery I have a reasonable "tree" to work under. Normally I have been partial to Chevys but this was thrust on me to clean up.
I think I can improvise a tool to hold the flats on the two cams on the right side. I have turned the crank untill the 3 cams that are still connected have the flats horizonal to the head. If I don't move anything there I can bring the unchained flat in line with the other and hook up chain. That will bring everything back to alignment. If you have any specific questions email me at sstinman@aol.com. as I get busier i will check those more often than this site.
Am glad to help if I can.

Posted by: sstinman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat DelDuca

Yeah thought I could slip the chain from behind too but you're right, can't lift the cam to do it. We have two other vehilces, the lincoln is my daughters car. It's her first car, she's very upset because she takes good care of it, she doesn't have the kind of money to get this fixed. The manual says it's 15 hours to do the chains. It will probably take me 15 days. Hey I'm an accountant not a mechanic. If you have any pointers or shortcuts let me know.
Thanks.

I found this too late for me as I have the chain from Ford and already have the front cover off but if you haven't gotten that far this would be an eaiser solution. It is a chain with a removable link. looks like you would need a link tool to lock in place but trust me finding that will be much eaiser than the alternative.Hope this helps because taking off everthing to get the cover off is a b---h.

http://stores.ebay.com/CHRISTOPHERS-FOREIGN-CAR-PARTS

Posted by: vicls

What year is it and is it the v8? Also how many clicks does the car have?

Posted by: Pat DelDuca

It is a 2000 Lincoln LS 3.9l V8. It has 120,000 miles on it.

Posted by: Pat DelDuca

Wow. I looked all over for a chain with a master link and was told it did not exist. I already got the cover off and ordered the chain from team ford.
You're not kidding, it is brutal to get the cover off. I must have about 25 hours into already. I sure hope the head is ok after all this work. It looks like the cam jammed in a position where the exhaust valves were up so I'm pretty sure it's ok. Do you have yours back together yet?

Posted by: sstinman

No it turned out I need a primary guide also. The original secondary tensioner was the wrong one so I am waiting on parts should get today or tommorow. Haven't worked much on it the last few days. I now need to replace the fan pump it is leaking badly and I am not going to put it back bad as hard as it was to get off. Found used for $125 new is $312 from Team Ford. once I get all the parts it should go ok. I don't know how many hours I have spent but I spent more tim taking off the pumps and alternator and ac than anything else.

Posted by: sstinman

one last post then I am done with this project. This thing has been a disaster. while working on this I found the cooling fan pump bone dry so Who knows how long it had been running without cooling. Of course the kid who had no idea it was making a noise when he bought it didn't know if it was hot when it quit running on him. All this is after I am almost back together. Long story short after getting it back together it started and ran but shortly started to pour out smoke. It either has a cracked head or blown head gasket and who knows what else. My best guess is the broken timing chain was a result not a cause. It probably locked up from overheating and screwed up the chain not the other way around. I told him to sell it as a car that needs an engine. Anybody looking for a project?
In all respect to all you Lincoln people it sure made me really happy with my Chevys.
Hopfully this kid is smart enough to take someone with him the next time he goes out to buy a car. At least someone to listen to the engine not the stereo.

Posted by: 97stscaddy

Sorry to hear of your bad luck with the LS. They really can be quite nice cars when properly cared for, kinda like Chevy's.

And hopefully the kid learns a lesson.

Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:

Originally Posted by sstinman

one last post then I am done with this project. This thing has been a disaster. while working on this I found the cooling fan pump bone dry so Who knows how long it had been running without cooling. Of course the kid who had no idea it was making a noise when he bought it didn't know if it was hot when it quit running on him. All this is after I am almost back together. Long story short after getting it back together it started and ran but shortly started to pour out smoke. It either has a cracked head or blown head gasket and who knows what else. My best guess is the broken timing chain was a result not a cause. It probably locked up from overheating and screwed up the chain not the other way around. I told him to sell it as a car that needs an engine. Anybody looking for a project?
In all respect to all you Lincoln people it sure made me really happy with my Chevys.
Hopfully this kid is smart enough to take someone with him the next time he goes out to buy a car. At least someone to listen to the engine not the stereo.

The greatest trouble with the LS is that it's somewhat over-engineered. And as is true of most worthwhile mechanisms, it takes some care and maintenance. The chibrolay, on the other hand, is usually considered to be UNDER engineered. That just means made cheaply.It was nice to have you around.

Posted by: Pat DelDuca

Spent all Saturday putting the car back together in my driveway. Filled up the fluids. It started right up and ran perfect. I prayed a lot before we turned the key though.
Thanks to everyone who offerred advice.

To sstinman thanks for your help, sorry to hear your's didn't work out to well.

Posted by: milehighmikey

Good job! Glad to hear you were successful in a difficult situation.

Posted by: owlman

woo-hoo!

Posted by: Quik LS

great work - that truely is one of the toughest jobs....

Posted by: sstinman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat DelDuca

Spent all Saturday putting the car back together in my driveway. Filled up the fluids. It started right up and ran perfect. I prayed a lot before we turned the key though.
Thanks to everyone who offerred advice.

To sstinman thanks for your help, sorry to hear your's didn't work out to well.

Glad yours was a success. Sounds like you had more to work with. I still think we were working with a doctored engine from the start. The timing chain fix worked and ran. I just think the block or head are cracked and was rigged to get it out of sight. It may be just a head gasket. Either way I just want it GONE. I am not going into it again. Right now it will start and run until it warms up then you get a "smoke machine". He is selling as "a car that needs engine work."
Happy Motoring

Posted by: 97stscaddy

Can of Block sealer will fix er right up...

Posted by: sstinman

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97stscaddy

Can of Block sealer will fix er right up...

I think you hit on the head what the kid stepped into and bought. I wouldn't do that to anyone else no matter what the loss. He will just have to take his lumps and learn to be a smarter car buyer.