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Ford's In Trouble

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Posted by: russellhyde

Ford needs to rebuild the Mark series before they go bankrupt. They need to make it a four door so that people won't have that excuse for not buying it. Some of the Mark VI's were sedans & Chrysler has done very well with the Charger despite it being a sedan, actually because it has four doors like most women & men w/children want. Ford keeps cutting corners instead of just GIVING THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT and then wonder why everyone's going to the Japanese competition or to Europe for their luxury & DREAM CARS!!! I'll admit coupes are my thing as you can tell from the 6 Mark VIII's I've owned but, HEY, I want to continue to see LINCOLNS ON THE ROAD!!!

Posted by: stang99x

If Ford gave a

about lincoln, they'd stop selling them on the same lot as Ford/Mercury. I mean, think about it, you can pay $55K or more for a town car, or you can get a damn near identical Grand Marquis for like $22k. And its the same car with different badges, a different color and some better trim.

Same went for all the other ones. You pay 20% or more for the Lincoln name when the comprable low level is only feet away. They either depend on die hard lincoln owners or just don't give a

. I think they just don't give a

. Granted some new features are reserved for Lincolns the first year or two but they always float down to the mercs and fords at some point

Posted by: RedHotMark96

Ford is developing a new GRWD (global rwd) platform which will underpin both new Ford and Lincoln vehicles. So there will be a RWD Town Car replacement. It will support short, mid-sized, and long-wheelbase vehicles. It will be in the TC replacement, a short-wheelbase in the future mustang (dont think 2010 though), a long wheelbase Ford Sedan.

Given this, I think its not out of the picture that we might see a Mustang based (but with a stretched/tweaked platform) Lincoln coupe at some point.
There will definatly be another RWD Lincoln sedan.

Posted by: tank386

Ford Motor Company has more debt right now than any corporation in the free world....compare that with toyota that has $50 billion in cash just lying around.............they're mortgaging assets just to pay the bills...I think everyone here should buy a Lincoln MKX and keep me workin....................

Posted by: russellhyde

In response to 99stangx the Mark series (Mark VII '84-'92 & Mark VIII '93-'98) both have completely different body styles from Fords & Mercs & definitely more horsepower (both having 285 lb-ft of torque), The mustang GT just caught up w/the '05 model. The Mercury Maurader was a nice upgrade of the Grand Marquis on the other hand which would be a perfect nemesis for the limited edition Impalas from the mid nineties w/it's 305hp vs the Impala's 260hp. This is the direction Ford needs to go in NOW for it's Lincoln Marks not later guys, and NOT just give rear drive sedans & coupes LETTERS for names.

Posted by: decibels5

Before anything, maybe they should just sit down and decide on a fu<king name first. zep, mkz 500, taurus come on. lets keep changing names, hoping someone likes the new or old name better. blackwood, mark lt. and so on and so on.

Posted by: buddylee

Quote:

Originally Posted by decibels5

Before anything, maybe they should just sit down and decide on a fu<king name first. zep, mkz 500, taurus come on. lets keep changing names, hoping someone likes the new or old name better. blackwood, mark lt. and so on and so on.

the name thing it not much to worry about , right now every car manufacture is doing anything to make a fix.
the 500 to Taurus is just that, ford Went back to Taurus because its a name they can sell

Posted by: Bob Hubbard

The best thing Ford could do would be to stop production imediately on all vehicles, file a chapter 11, and reorganize with no unions to strangle them.
The unions is why they are where they are presently.
Then maybe they could have the bucks to hire QUALIFIED designers to fabricate new vehicles instead of the crap they are putting out now.
Bob.

Posted by: Conti94

When isn't Ford in trouble?

There are alot of changes going on in the industry right now, it's nuts. My friend Trevor, also a member on this site, his brother lost his job as a parts director for Chrysler at a dealership down in Missouri 2 months ago, Chrysler has decided to shut down alot of there service contracts and parts contracts in there dealerships in the region he is in, aspparently they want to have there own service centers seperate from the private dealerships and leave them to only sales of vehicles, you would have to go to a chrysler ownesd service shop instead of a privately owned shop to have warranty work done. I guess the idea is that they would save money by not having to pay a private owner of a independant dealership and it's employees, I may be wording a bit of this wrong here. When i heard about it at first it kinda sounded like a monopoly. This is just the basic idea as i have heard it

Anyone else have a view on this or heard about it?

Posted by: buddylee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Hubbard

The best thing Ford could do would be to stop production imediately on all vehicles, file a chapter 11, and reorganize with no unions to strangle them.
The unions is why they are where they are presently.
Then maybe they could have the bucks to hire QUALIFIED designers to fabricate new vehicles instead of the crap they are putting out now.
Bob.

As a Former Teamster ......... Well that kinda talk is expected coming from Los Angeles

Posted by: russellhyde

In response to Bob Hubbard, Ford doesn't need to stop production. They do need to build the Mark 9 which is where their heritage has come from since the 1950's, as for Conti 94 I agree Chrysler wants to make a monopoly of the warranty business of their cars & trucks but uh buddylee come on now, I grew up in Long Beach & even though LA doesn't like us much you can't talk about Southern Cal like that man!!!

Posted by: stang99x

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellhyde

In response to 99stangx the Mark series (Mark VII '84-'92 & Mark VIII '93-'98) both have completely different body styles from Fords & Mercs & definitely more horsepower (both having 285 lb-ft of torque), The mustang GT just caught up w/the '05 model. The Mercury Maurader was a nice upgrade of the Grand Marquis on the other hand which would be a perfect nemesis for the limited edition Impalas from the mid nineties w/it's 305hp vs the Impala's 260hp. This is the direction Ford needs to go in NOW for it's Lincoln Marks not later guys, and NOT just give rear drive sedans & coupes LETTERS for names.

Sorry for the delayed response time here. But you missed the point. Current production vehicles is what I meant there. Currently, ever lincoln has a ford counterpart, and the same with the mercs. The mark8 was the last "lincoln only" that there was. I'm just pointing out that, if you are fiscally responsible and don't take brand association to seriously, you can buy a cheaper ford with most all the same options for alot less than the lincoln. I'll give you a great example. I just bought an 04 explorer for half the price of an 05 aviator, same miles, options etc. The only real difference was the lincoln had a center console shifter, slightly nicer cluster, and cooled seats. Sure those are nice options, but not worth $10K to me when i get that car without those for half the price. And I have been a lincoln finatic forever.

and fighting the mid 90's impala''s with a maurader, well, the impalas had been produced, run into the ground, and production halted before the maurader ever saw the light of day. You can't expect to win a race when you start after the checkered flag

And don't expect to see anything spectacular coming out of broke down ford right now. They didn't sell jag and rover for that multi-billion dollar loss just to piss it away on conceptual materials.

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

The Lincoln Town Car doesn't have a direct Ford counterpart.

I would say the last Lincoln only vehicle wasn't the Mark VIII - it was the LS.

I saw an interesting TV commercial for Ford the other day - its the one where they say ''and Ford is now equal with Toyota in build quality'' - I wasn't impressed - too little, too late, plus saying that is kinda admitting a problem. I would have been more impressed if the commercial had said: ''Ford is now superior in quality to Toyota''

Competition is fierce - the Japs are doing well, the Koreans are making progress and even the ailing GM has almost reinvented itself with lots of new and exciting products. Ford really need to wake up - can't rely on Mustang and truck sales forever! Time to fire some management and raise the bar! (that William Clay Ford was useless - good job he stepped down and let a Boeing guy take over - maybe the aeroplane engineer will have more luck turning the company around!)

Posted by: tank386

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Hubbard

you obviously have no idea what your talking about...........

Posted by: tank386

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93' Blue on blue

The Lincoln Town Car doesn't have a direct Ford counterpart.

I would say the last Lincoln only vehicle wasn't the Mark VIII - it was the LS.

I saw an interesting TV commercial for Ford the other day - its the one where they say ''and Ford is now equal with Toyota in build quality'' - I wasn't impressed - too little, too late, plus saying that is kinda admitting a problem. I would have been more impressed if the commercial had said: ''Ford is now superior in quality to Toyota''

Competition is fierce - the Japs are doing well, the Koreans are making progress and even the ailing GM has almost reinvented itself with lots of new and exciting products. Ford really need to wake up - can't rely on Mustang and truck sales forever! Time to fire some management and raise the bar! (that William Clay Ford was useless - good job he stepped down and let a Boing guy take over - maybe the aeroplane engineer will have more luck turning the company around!)

What do you think the Crown Vic is??

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Yeah, you can't really blame unions - the buck rests with the company management.

Besides, don't the Jap companies that have factories here in America (and everywhere else) have to follow the same rules and regulations as the domestic companies? If they can build cars here without a problem, then i see no excuse.

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by tank386

What do you think the Crown Vic is??

Same platform, not the same car. Just like a Mark VIII wasn't the same car as a Thunderbird, or the Mark VII wasn't the same car as a Mustang.

Now, the Mercury Marquis and Crown Victoria - they are virtually the same.

Posted by: stang99x

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93' Blue on blue

I hope for the sake of sanity you're kidding. crown vic, grand marquis, town car = one in the same. I've had all 3 i know. Subtle differences aside, and by that i mean slight body changes, different interior, etc, the chassis is the same. You sit here and tell me the frame and air ride are different on the merc and the lincoln, and i'll sit here and call you a fool

Posted by: ground_zero298

The LS, conti, and mark VIII were stand alone lincolns.

After my dad worked at romeo ford's for 36 years he has kind of shined a light on one of the big problems. Minorities and policy. He has told me many stories of people that should have been fired but ford didn't want a law suit. Couple examples, 2 guys left the line (shut the line down for 2 hours) to smoke some weed out in the parking lot. They were fired and then sued ford and won. People that will knowingly put a bin full of bad parts on a engine just to have the repair guys work all weekend fixing 450 engines. One lady showed her snatch to everyone all day when they walked passed her. Can't fire her, she's a minority. The work laws need to change so people that want to work can work. White guys get one enterance test a year. Minotities get 5? Seem fair? Yes my dad has many friends of different color and gender at fords and they see it the same way. Lazy people with no integrity bring fords down, and they will be their for 30 years.

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang99x

You sit here and tell me the frame and air ride are different on the merc and the lincoln, and i'll sit here and call you a fool

No need for name calling.

I already said they are the same platform.

I am basically just saying that the Town Car has a few extra differences - body work, long wheelbase version etc. to make it appealing to a different market sector. (limo companies etc.) Its just a nicer car. Is it worth all that extra money? Probably not.

Posted by: stang99x

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93' Blue on blue

The Lincoln Town Car doesn't have a direct Ford counterpart.

I'm not trying to be a dick or call you out or anything, but those were your exact words. Based on that, you said the town car had no similiar car from Ford when in fact it does. Its like the Jag x type and the taurus, they shared so much it wasn't even funny......who the hell wants a 50K dollar taurus? LOL

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

You have misunderstood that quote above. ^^ I never said there was no similar Ford car either! By counterpart, i meant the car from Ford (CV) isn't the exact same thing with different trim and badges. (like how the Marquis and CV are) I know full well that Ford, Lincoln and Mercury all offer 4 door saloons on the Panther platform - 2 are virtually identical, one has a different body and is nicer.

You haven't called me out on anything. My opinion remains the same.

To simplify:

CV and Marquis: Same car, different trims.

Town Car: Similar car, longer wheel base available, different body and alot more expensive hence, i said no direct counterpart.

Do you understand what im saying now? No need to split hairs and tell me to look under the bodies etc.

I appreciate some of what you are saying though - Ford have been lazy, trying to make as many cars as possible with as few parts as possible - the classes have become blurred and the 'smart guys' like you or i know how Ford are and what to look for when it comes to their stuff. I wouldn't pay too much extra for a TC when i can have a CV for half the price.

Funny you mentioned the Jag X type - in Europe everyone knows they are basically a 'pumped up' Ford and that the real Jag is the XJ. (even that shares too much switch gear for my liking, but it does have a nice motor and an aluminum body - pretty big too)

Anyway, to get back on topic. Now that Ford has sold some of its baggage and put someone better in charge, maybe they can get back on track.

Posted by: russellhyde

Ohhhh Mr. 99stangx I swear!!! You are not a Lincoln fan, don't give me that! You spent the past several replies talking to me & everyone else about how you can get a Ford for the same value but at half the price. I'm sorry but I'm a true Lincoln lover, not YOU. Look at my pictures!!! Where are yours??? I want to admire your Navigator if you really have one but I don't know, do you really have one? Or do you just have an explorer? Why don't you go to the Ford website & chat w/the Ford lovers & leave the Lincoln talk to us. As for Ground Zero 298, I'm BLACK & I've been working since I was 8 with my dad at night doing janitor work for small companies at night in California when you were still asleep. We black folks in the Hyde family work hard, just like I've been doing at Wal-Mart these past 2 years right alongside white folks at the pharmacy & I just got my Pharmacy Tech license which is not given to you while your outside smoking marijuana.

Posted by: ground_zero298

Hold on russell, your coming off like a made a blanket statement that black people are the down fall of fords. First off I've been around the world alittle. I lived in texas for 2.5 years. And I can honestly say that black folk down south have a totaly different mentality then the ones that live up north. What my dad was saying is the ones that choose not to do a proper job can not get into any trouble for it. Because of union rules. Heck I lived with a bunch of racist when I was in texas, a bunch of black mason racists. My room mate was black, my whole section was black. I had more black friends then white down their and they had no problems with me. They invited me over to birthday party's, cookouts, and the clubs all the time, I was the only white guy their. And I'm not a wigger. I'm just me and they were cool with that. I got no problem with black people, I do have a problem with lazy people of all colors. You may classify people as black and white, I see people as lazy pieces of

or hard workers. Also I made absolutley no reference to the color of anybody in my previous statement. And if your working hard to better yourself, I got no problems with that, I have no issues with anybody that works hard to get where thier going.

Posted by: russellhyde

Well it sounded like you did, just read your comment again & I think you will see why I thought that "minority" included me too. Also, black people can't be racist if we were the ones that were considered part of a whole person for over 300 years in this country. We can be prejudiced but not racist. Racists are the ones with the power to influence another race's future & we can't do that, never have been able to & never will. Anyway, back to what I was originally talking about when I started this blog. I want to see more Mark series Lincolns on the road. The Mark9 is next in line. It should have at least 360hp w/an optional 400hp. Cadillac has a 550hp optional CTS style sedan coming out so Lincoln should have at least a 400hp option in the Mark9. I've owned 6 Mark VIII's since '96, my father owns a Mark VII, a LS, & a Mark IV. My uncle in Mississippi has owned a Mark III, a Mark VII, and 2 Mark VIII's also. We want to see more Mark series.

Posted by: RedHotMark96

Racism is making ANY sort of judgment about someone based just on the color of their skin. Anyone of any race, in any place, can be racist. Plus, genetically, there is really only one race: the human race. The only difference is how much pigment (melanin) is produced by your skin cells.

Regarding a Mark 9, I think theres a good chance we may see one, though it may not be called that, and it may not have a V8. I would love to see at the new twin turbo 3.5L V6 with AWD in a lincoln coupe though, provided it had real styling.

Posted by: titleisttony

I think everyone is dumber now, having heard this!!!
Can people here just post things when they know what they are talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All that crap about 'I know why Ford is struggling', is just rubbish. I agree with the people who think that a Lincoln should NOT be a "dressed up Ford". I had high hopes that this would materialize with the new MKS, but it seems that the program is starting to fizzle since I first found out about it a couple of years ago. Anyhoo, a Lincoln that is "a pig with a dress on it" is not a real Lincoln, and I won't buy any of those! I am not calling Ford products 'pigs', I just wanted to use the metaphor. There are some excellent Ford products out there, I just don't believe they should call them Lincolns!
P.S. I worked at a Ford plant for 9 years, and the reason they are not fairing as well as the Japanese is Management.
Too many(underqualified) chiefs, not enough indians. Period.
P.P.S. I know dumber is not a word, I was making a movie quote. Know which movie?

Posted by: stang99x

A racist is a racist, reguardless of what race they are. There is no limitation on who can be a racist. The most vocal least prosecuted racists on the planet are the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. That being said and done....

There was a Mark X concept a few years back, that looked badass. The most likely motor you'll you is the v6 turbo. Will it be enough to rejuvinate Ford, simply put no. Like the last guy said, to many chiefs, not enough injuns!

Posted by: russellhyde

RedHotMark96 that's garbage!!! White folks don't feel the pain of oppression that black folks have felt for the past 300 years, the past 100 years, and the past 20 years. You haven't had the FBI admit that they released crack cocaine into your neighborhood just to keep your people under control back in the late 1960's & early 1970's. Oh and by the way, it was an epidemic for our people til the mid-nineties. That's what I mean about black people not being racists. We haven't had that kind of power over other races & never will.
Now, you guys need to quit, if you love Fords, please find their website, this is for Lincoln lovers. Like me, I'm sure other Lincoln owners would like to see a new V8 Mark9, not a v6 with an unfamiliar turbocharge technology which will definitely get Ford in more trouble, or some other name that people familiar with Lincoln won't respond to.
I know what I'm talking about. I heard about the MKS last year also but I didn't like it at all. A Yamaha engine, come on now. The Taurus SHO that I had, which was a '89 model, had one too. It had too many problems, so I'm glad if Ford's not talking about it anymore.
99stangx, please read my note to you (#23, Apr 28th because you obviously haven't). I don't want to see a v6 in a Mark. Where are the real Mark lovers out there, is that what you all want to see? A watered down version of the Mark series? Or something Lincoln buyers will truly treasure? I want to hear from the Lincoln Mark owners and lovers out there. Not you Ford enthusiasts & most certainly not from people that deny the real problem with Lincoln.

Posted by: RedHotMark96

With respect russellhyde, your argument is using the logical fallacy Ad Hominen. To say that someone's viewpoint or statement is invalid by attacking the person is using a logical fallacy, and so not a valid argument.
I did a research paper last year on gang violence, a topic which is very heavily influenced by race. Statistically the two races between which there is the most violence in the US today is actually Hispanics and African-Americans. Read up on the current socio-political atmosphere of southern california and Los Angeles. The racial gang violence is out of control. And in local politics in many areas there blacks are suppressing hispanics and refusing to give them a representative share of power despite their numerical majority.
The segregation, slavery, and racism that was practiced in the United States was absolutely wrong, there is no excuse for it and it violates in my opinion a moral absolute. But people should be thought of first as individuals not as groups. If you cannot forgive someone who has wronged you then you are no better then they are, because you do not want to make things right. My people and my community consist of Whites, Asians, Hispanics, Blacks; anyone of any race, they are all one in my eyes because they are One People in God's eyes, and I make no judgments on others based on their race. To say that someone has not had a harder life or suffered more than someone else based solely on their race is nothing short of racism, you do not know the person and you have no idea what they may have suffered in their lives so do not make assumptions. Lastly, you don't even know what race I am, but honestly it is irrelevant.

Apologies for the partial thread hijack.
With regards to future Lincoln engines, I for one would welcome another V8 in a future Mark9 or sporty lincoln. I love my V8, I love how it pulls and I love how it sounds. But these are no longer the glory days of the v8 engine, everyone is clamoring for that little bit extra MPG count, and the government is telling automakers what they can and cannot make. Ford would be wise to offer a high performance lincoln with a hi-po V6 offering. A twin turbo V6, with the 340+hp, and more importantly 340+tq would make an amazing successor to the Mark VIII. The only thing a TTv6 cannot match or beat is the v8 sound, but to be honest, I think I can let that go. And given the stellar quality and durability of new Ford products over the past couple years we have no reason to doubt that this new engine will not hold up to this standard. Ford really has no choice; it has to.

Posted by: Garbone

Anyone ever see the story about Ford, and Toyota's canoe race?
Find the story, and it answers all!

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbone

Anyone ever see the story about Ford, and Toyota's canoe race?
Find the story, and it answers all!

Yeah, i remember similar analogies from studying business and economics back in college. British industry failed for the same reasons.

There was an interesting little article in June's edition of Motor Trend. (page 6) Entitled: People, Politics, Processes.

I shan't quote the whole thing, just the last paragraph: (this was about a car company wanting to paint an engine's cam covers green)

''After several weeks of meetings focusing on increasingly arcane detail, i almost lost the will to live. We never did get the green cam covers. But i learned a valuable lesson: Making even the smallest change is extraordinarily difficult in the auto business. Lord only knows how they make big ones.''