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"Cheap" Amplifiers and stuff

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Posted by: RedHotMark96

So I've blown a couple speakers and a tweeter, and it looks like its about time to get rid of the stock sound system and do an upgrade.

I did a little research, and it looks like I can buy some 4-channel amplifiers for $150, even a couple brand name ones (alpine, kenwood etc). But of course the geezers at bestbuy told me anything in that price range or lower will be crap. How much truth is there to this statement? Are companies like Profile junk?
I was hoping to pick up an amp for $150 and two sets of speakers for $50/each. I already have a pretty good Kenwood deck.

This means of course that I'll be putting my JBL amplifier up for sale. My original amp was toast when I bought the car, so I bought a rebuilt amplifier from Royal Radio with a 1 yr warranty. I see all the used amplifiers on ebay for $50-75, but it seemed a better idea to buy a remanufactured one that take a gamble on another 13 yr old amp. So I paid the $225 for a rebuilt unit. How much could I sell this for?

Posted by: Speed Demon

Stick with brand name. Older Alpine and Pioneer amps are good buys. Make sure they're not blown. Cheap amps are cheap amps. Check out the internals and compare them. You'll never even look cheap amps after that. Your rebuilt is used so maybe 100 to 150? It is expensive with all the cheap used ones out there. Any suggestions guys?

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

You get what you pay for, the rule of thumb used to be, "you should pay a dollar per watt" this of course has changed but it's still a good rule. Look atall the name brand amps and price those, they're usually priced pretty close for the same type "A Class, B Class, D Class, etc....) and same wattage. Also look for the CEA 2006 Compliant Seal on the package. It's a rating system that allows the consumer to actually compare amps from different manufacturers. You can read more about the standard here. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VQ0guGr...ps/cacomp.html

Also there are rating systems for speakers, wiring, and digital media adapters. You can read about those here http://www.ce.org/Standards/1438.asp

Best rule of thumb, you get what you pay for, pay good money and get good quality.

Posted by: Sal329

Back when I had systems in my car I ran a few of the sony amps with good success. At one point I purchased an 800 watt Crunch amp tp power my subs it worked GREAT especially for $50 lol. My fav amps though are JL but seriously for a buget I would not over look the sony amps.

Posted by: RedHotMark96

How good are brands like Polk, Kicker, Blaupunkt, Sony, and Pioneer for amplifiers and speakers?

And what about buying used amplifiers of ebay, is this a good idea? It looks like I could pick up some decent stuff for a good price.

Im looking at speakers using mainly 40-60W RMS, so does that mean I shouldnt look at amps running higher levels?

Posted by: turborich

Go & grab a sony or pioneer amp from walmart. They are $150-$200 bux & deliver plenty of power.

I have seen walmart set ups sound better than ones costing twice as much. With that being said, don't buy some totally generic no name amp. Stick with the sony or pioneer.

I picked up a bazooka set up from circuit city. A box with 2 10" woofers & a built in amp. All for $169 + tax. I think it sounds great!

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Quote:

Originally Posted by turborich

Go & grab a sony or pioneer amp from walmart. They are $150-$200 bux & deliver plenty of power.

I have seen walmart set ups sound better than ones costing twice as much. With that being said, don't buy some totally generic no name amp. Stick with the sony or pioneer.

I picked up a bazooka set up from circuit city. A box with 2 10" woofers & a built in amp. All for $169 + tax. I think it sounds great!

It depends on what you're looking for, if you just want a cheap system, then sure, go to walmart spend a few hundred bucks, slap something together and if you're lucky it might last a couple years.

But if you're like me and look for quality components that produce good sound quality, then I recommend going and talking to a local car audio dealer. I'm not talking about the large chain stores, they'll rip you off. Their stuff is overpriced, steer clear of best buy and circuit city type places. If you find a good dealer with a trained installer you'll get what you pay for.

My installer takes probably twice as long as it would take to install things but the attention to detail is unmatched anywhere else. His rates are reasonable, but I get discounts for keeping his computers running.

It's your choice, but I've wasted a lot of money on cheap stuff in the past when I could have spent less on quality components.

Posted by: chickenviii

ive found that with some cheaper amps you can get hiss, distortion and a few other probs, i agree with you get what you pay for, but on the flip side, back when i was 17~ish i got a "dr crankenstein" truck box from wal-mart along with some cheap ass jensen amp, it sounded surprisingly good for about $125, i never blew the speakers and i rattled the sh1t out of that old truck, overtime i replaced the speakers and used the box for many more years. overtime i have built bigger and better systems and have had many probs with cheap parts so i must of been just lucky back in the day

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickenviii

ive found that with some cheaper amps you can get hiss, distortion and a few other probs, i agree with you get what you pay for, but on the flip side, back when i was 17~ish i got a "dr crankenstein" truck box from wal-mart along with some cheap ass jensen amp, it sounded surprisingly good for about $125, i never blew the speakers and i rattled the sh1t out of that old truck, overtime i replaced the speakers and used the box for many more years. overtime i have built bigger and better systems and have had many probs with cheap parts so i must of been just lucky back in the day

Chicken, they actually made the equipment out of quality components back then, even the cheaper units had components that would stand up to the punishment. But with technology improvements, the brand name companies have actually started spending money for the quality components and and the smaller name companies can't compete as well. They produce their products cheaper but they're produced with cheaper components to keep the prices lower. You get what you pay for!

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHotMark96

I did a little research, and it looks like I can buy some 4-channel amplifiers for $150, even a couple brand name ones (alpine, kenwood etc). But of course the geezers at bestbuy told me anything in that price range or lower will be crap. How much truth is there to this statement? Are companies like Profile junk?

Red, The idiots at bestbuy are just out for the sale, they have their main brands at these stores that they push onto everyone. That's why I like the little mom and pop shops, they still have their main lines, but they're less likely to give you all the bs.

Car audio is one of those things that can get confusing quick if you don't know a lot about it. The guys at the chain stores will use this to their advantage, throwing out big terms to try and confuse you. I love listening to them ramble about how great their product is. You can never go wrong with the big names, but watch for the warranties, some will actually give longer warranties if their product is installed by a trained installer.

The only thing the big chain stores are good for is testing out the products. They usually have the big sound walls that will allow you to test out and compare the products. Also, after the beginning of year, when they're flushing last years inventory, you can usually find some good deals.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

How does a stock pair of door speakers compare to a set of $50 speakers?

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Quote:

Originally Posted by kustomizingkid

How does a stock pair of door speakers compare to a set of $50 speakers?

Usually anything aftermarket is better than the OEM speakers, our cars do have the "premium sound systems" but the premium sound system is just a little better than a regular OEM system. They're not meant for quality.

The problem with our cars is that you basically have to rewire the whole stereo if you're replacing any speakers. The OEM JBL amp is not meant to power aftermarket speakers, although it can be done, more than likely it will end up burning up the amp. So you either have to bypass the amp and try to use the stock wires or you have to rewire the car.

Either way, it can be a pain, but if you're going to put the effort into it, just rewire the car from the headunit to the speakers.

Also, remember, your system is only as strong as the weakest link, be it, the factory headunit, the factory wiring, the factory amp, the factory speakers.

The other thing to look at with your $50 speakers, are the component speakers, a pair of coaxials in the stock midrange location will not bring the soundstage to the same level as the factory components. Yes, you have the midrange and the tweeter all-in-one, but the tweeter will be so low on the door you will barely notice it being there.

Posted by: Speed Demon

10 years ago there would have been a huge difference. Crappy magnets, paper cones. Quality came a long way since then. The cheap speakers are much nicer, but the nice speakers improved also. Its actually harder to tell the difference until you hear them. Check for consumer reviews online. The products aren't any better at big box stores than crutchfield, and you get your stuff installed by morons. Crutchfield gives decent advice and the kits are super easy to install. I have alpine, pioneer, and even boss amps from 1990's that still slam. Older stuff is super cheap now too. Don't let best buy install anything. Circuit city sucks too but they install for free at least.

Posted by: Speed Demon

If you just want louder. Put passive crossovers on your stock speakers to limit distortion from too much bass. Wire a nice amp to your headunit and get a nice sub. If you find a nice amp it'll have electronic crossovers but you'll need to run new wire to all your speakers. Cheap and potentially very loud. An older 4 channel bridgeable amp is a great find for sub box.

Posted by: SilverSweetness

Does your car have to use the stock amp, or like my 99 continental when you put in the aftermarket headunit did it bypass the stock amp.. if it bypassed the stock amp and you are getting a new set of speakers, then you should just use the headunit you have to push those speakers. Unless you buy much better speakers than you can get for 50 bucks you are wasting money amplifying them. I mean yes it will sound better then just with your cd player but not enough to make it worth while. what exactly do you want out of this system and do you have any subs? give us more info and we can really help narrow down your options.

Posted by: Speed Demon

You can get a lot of volume out of stock set up. The bass is what distorts the sound the most at higher volume. While using crossovers with the stock set up you can really blast the volume and still get clear sound. Then the after market amp and sub supply the boom. Like I said, very cheap and very loud.

If you get better speakers and use crossovers with stock system this will be even louder. A new head unit would be another upgrade to sound but unneeded. So what are your plans?

Posted by: turborich

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96hotrodlincoln

I think that brands such as pioneer or sony like I mentioned will last more than a couple of years & "slap something together" That's funny.

Just because something doesn't cost a fortune doesn't mean that it has to be slapped together. My workmanship & attention to detail is among the best. All of my wiring is always 100% hidden, no eletrical tape either, all wire connectors or soilder & heat shrink.

You can have a very nice sounding system that will last for years & you do not need to spend a fortune. That's all that I'm saying.

Posted by: Speed Demon

Think about the time you will spend doing it and your attention to detail and how the highschool kid from BB will be rushing to get another one in and out before he gets off that day. "Sorry man that cover sort of broke, must be because its old. Just glue it when you get home." No thanks, I won't do that crap anymore. Then to top it off you pull out the headunit a few months later to add an amp and see what a sh#@ job the kid did on your wiring. You should have plenty of info now to make a reasonable descision. I'm off to work, later.

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Quote:

Originally Posted by turborich

There's nothing wrong with Sony or Pioneer, I've had a couple Pioneer headunits and I'm a Sony guy now. The Sony stuff you buy at Walmart though is not that same that you'll get from a dealer. The stuff Walmart sells is still Sony products but they're products that are mass produced by Sony for Walmart.

Check it out sometime, here's a Sony headunit at Walmart. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5584794

You can't find that same model number listed on the Sony website. http://xplodsony.com/xplod/headunits

I buy from a dealer because I look at all the details and specifications. I buy Headunits that have higher Pre-amp Output Voltages. Most manufacturers will say 4 Volt pre-amp outputs but what they don't tell you is that the 4 Volts is divided by the number or pre-amp outputs on the unit. Sony, along with most of the major name brands actually list that voltage and it's per output.

The output of the headunit makes a difference when installing amps, if you're only sending a 1.3 Volt signal to the amp, then a 500 Watt amp will not function as well as if it had a 4 volt input. Most people will just turn the gain up higher to try and compensate for this. Which does work, but is not the answer, the gain is not a volume control. The gain is meant to be matched to the signal voltage coming into the amplifier.

If you use the gain on the amp as a volume control to push more power, you just end up increasing the distortion going to your subs or speakers. Distortion is the leading cause of blown speakers, not over-powering them. Ask any installer, they'll all tell you that more power is always better, meaning buy an amp that is rated at a higher output than your speakers, it won't hurt, just don't crank the amp all the way up thinking that you're going to get more volume.

Buy what you like, you can build a good system out of many different components. Hell when I was still in High School, I ran a pioneer headunit from Walmart, along with a pair of rockford fosgate 8's in truck boxes, with a 150 watt Crossfire amp. I had a 90 Ford Ranger regular cab. With this setup, I hit 192dB

, not bad for a small system in a small truck. That was when I was all about being loud, now that I'm half deaf, I'm more about having all the music sound good not just being loud.

Just do your research, and remember, just because it has blinking lights and motorized components, doesn't mean it's better than the plain looking unit. Some of the best units are extremely plain looking. It's because they spend their money on better internals vs. spending it on aesthetics.

Posted by: turborich

Oh, I can't stand all of those lights & crazy looking decks that look like there from a space ship. I like plain & simple.