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Aftermarket cooling fan question.

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Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

What is the best aftermarket cooling fan for our cars? I see a lot of them on summit, can anyone point me in the right direction? I appreciate it guys!

Posted by: Roadboss

If you are talking radiator, the one that is on our cars now is one of the best ones for CFM.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

Well, I know the whole story w/ our fans and how good it is. But I am specifically looking for the best aftermarket cooling fans for the radiator.

Posted by: turborich

I'm not sure if you will find a fan or fans that pull more CFM's & that can mount in there properly. Maybe you could try Summit or Jegs?

I don't think that my factory fan has ever been on high. At least I haven't seen it spinning that fast. It seems like a low to medium amount of air to me but it keeps it cool. Maybe wiring your stock fan directly to 12 volts using a relay would produce more air flow if that's what you are looking for.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

Here is the deal, I have done absolutely everything to resolve this "overheating" issue. During normal driving, could be 10 or 20 mins the temp gauge will spike to the "O" then it will slowly drop back down to "M". If the needle is on "O" and I am not moving, it will then drop to "A". It does not matter if I have the ac on or off. This weekend I will be replacing all the hoses for the coolant system. I just want something to fall back on if replacing the hoses do not work. Last year I flushed the coolant 3 times, making sure there is no air still in the system. Also last year the water pump and oil filter adapter gasket was replaced along w/ a 160 t-stat. I know the Mark is PITA to bleed, but I am pretty sure there is no air trapped in the system. So after monitoring this issue, it is evident that there is some time of restriction happening here, or some type of failure w/ the fan.

Posted by: turborich

Are you sure that your temp gauge isn't just reading wrong?

My Mark will sometimes jump up to the 3/4 mark on the gauge. My friends 94 will almost peg it to the top. I have checked the tempurature with a infered thermometer at the x-over pipe & it's not any hotter than when the gauge was at a normal reading. I really think these gauges are whacked out in the Gen 1's.

Have you verified that your engine is actually running hot? I would start by doing that. You may even want to install a manual temp gauge in the x-over filler hole just so that you can verify this for sure.

Do you have the plastic air deflector under the front bumper? This helps while driving, it forces air up into the A/C condensor & radiator. I know this to be true because my 95 was missing this part when I bought it. After installing it back onto the car the temp was reduced on the highway.

Also if you really think it's the fan then I would disconnect it & run direct battery power to it just to see if this improves the cooling.

I know that most say it's very hard to change the t-stat & to bleed the air, but I have never had an issue. It's pretty easy & straight forward.

Good luck to you.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

[quote=turborich;370615]
Do you have the plastic air deflector under the front bumper? This helps while driving, it forces air up into the A/C condensor & radiator. I know this to be true because my 95 was missing this part when I bought it. After installing it back onto the car the temp was reduced on the highway.
QUOTE]

When I bought the car, it never had this piece. But this issue has been a torn in my back for almost 2 years. The car ran fine when I bought it, that is why I think something else is going on.

Posted by: Roadboss

The fact that it is fluctuating means the fan is on and is doing it's job. I have two 96 Marks, and each reads different. You can have your fan put into full time mode with a chip change. Are you sure that your thermostat is correctly installed, maybe a temp sensor change will make a difference for your peace of mind. Remember that NORMAL is normal.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

The t-stat is and was installed correctly and I do have a chip. I notice the fan only kicking on when the needle is directly on "O". I have been debating about the temp sensor for the longest time. But I do have to say, the block and the crossover tube does get really hot. I do not know if this is typical or not, but I did notice that the radiator shroud gets hot as well.

Posted by: turborich

I think (not sure) that the fan doesn't even turn on untill around 215 degrees & back off at 205 degrees unless the A/C is on.

I understand that the car didn't run hot at first and the deflector was never there however I would still get one. It is there for a reason. Doesn't the cooling fan turn off at speeds above 35 mph? If this is true then the deflector is almost required for sure. Only so much air can go through the small grille of the Mark VIII.

I agree with Roadboss about the (normal) range is OK. I would rather see numbers on it but that's not how it is. You can pick up a non-contact laser thermometer at harbor freight tools or pep boys for $30-$50 bux. Maybe even less if you shop around.

Is it excessevly hot where you live? It gets up to 118 here in the shade, about 160 radiating up from the black top so just imagine how hot it must get under the hood where that big engine is stuffed into without any breathing room. I think that the heat needs a way to be vented such as a opening in the rear of the hood. The owner of a radiator shop asked me just how much cooler I wanted my car to run? He then took out his laser thermometer & pointed it at the ground where it read 160 degrees. He said with that kind of heat radiating up off of the road a cooling system can only do so much. He told me that as long as it stays under 225-230 it's ok. I still think it's a little much IMO.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

During the winter it can reach around 30 degrees and THAT is when I notice it running cool. But when it is 80+ degrees, that gauge jumps!

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by turborich

Do you have the plastic air deflector under the front bumper? This helps while driving, it forces air up into the A/C condensor & radiator. I know this to be true because my 95 was missing this part when I bought it. After installing it back onto the car the temp was reduced on the highway.

What is this deflector Turborich? and what does it look like? (i had my front bumper cover off a few weeks back and the only deflector things i saw were a black plastic flap by the pass side of the rad and 2 black plastic things just below the grille) Is this them? or is it something lower down? Curious...

Posted by: turborich

Here is a pic of it. It runs underneath the front bumper cover. I outlined it in red. It goes along the rear bottom of the bumper cover, if yours is there you will know instantly. It's about 1 1/2" - 2" in height.

Posted by: 93' Blue on blue

Thanks. Hmmm..... guess mine is missing that then! Lol. (i wondered what the plastic rivet things were for, at the sides, underneath) Hi - Jack over... back to Joey...

Posted by: chickenviii

is the radiator clean? like the fins, i see alot of radiators plugged up with crap from all the fields, usually gets stuck between the radiator and the condenser. this is usually the prob if the car is fine till you drive it then it overheats. some parts stores sell a long tube that screws onto a garden hose with a slit on the side of the end, spraying water sideways you can sneak it between the radiator/condenser and spray all that crap out

Posted by: Speed Demon

Was your water pump new or a reman? A crappy pump can go out in a few months in rare cases. When you do the hoses inspect the internals
(of the pump). Something is blocking your coolant flow. Disconnect your hoses and check flow through certain areas in your engine, block radiator, heater core. Maybe your thermostat failed. Time to start taking stuff apart.

Too many possibilites to diagnose. I doubt your fan is the culprit. Checking block temp is a good start.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed Demon

Was your water pump new or a reman? A crappy pump can go out in a few months in rare cases. When you do the hoses inspect the internals
(of the pump). Something is blocking your coolant flow. Disconnect your hoses and check flow through certain areas in your engine, block radiator, heater core. Maybe your thermostat failed. Time to start taking stuff apart.

Too many possibilites to diagnose. I doubt your fan is the culprit. Checking block temp is a good start.

My waterpump is new, it is off a 99+ cobra.

Posted by: mmtphoto

I have a data logger (goes on OBDII port) that records different perimeters I can select and when I hook it up to a computer and download the data, I get a graph of readings. This time of year, being cool, I usually run around 170-175, but in hot weather, I can get readings up to 215, then the fan cuts on. It drops it down to about 200, then will go back up to 215, back and forth. I have a 160 thermostat in, and if I run the defroster in winter, it'll barely get up to 160-the fan runs when the defroster is on. When it gets up to the 'O' in Normal, it is (on my Gen 1) at about 215. When down around the ''A', it is around 175. As a general rule, I figure that my temps are like this:

N=over 220
O=215-220
R=200-205
M=190-195
A=175-180
L=160-165

I have not seen any readings in the 'N's, but it often (in warm weather, stop and go driving) gets to the 'O' and then drops down to the 'R' range. If I run the air, it seems to stay closer to the 'R', but if it is really hot and I am in extended heavy traffic, I have had to shut off the air-it stays in the high 'O' range a little too much for me to feel comfortable about it. I think the fan is set to run at 215 no matter what, because it will then drop to 'R' after I shut off the air conditioner. There is a way to wire a switch so that you control when the fan runs-here is the link:

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=32840

Credit to Driller, but I never ended up doing this because, with the data logger, I realized that it is designed to work like that-the others are right, also, a chip can change the temp setting for the fan to go on and off. If you are in a really hot area, you can consider doing that, or wiring the fan so that you control it.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

[quote=mmtphoto;370906]I have a data logger (goes on OBDII port) that records different perimeters I can select and when I hook it up to a computer and download the data, I get a graph of readings. This time of year, being cool, I usually run around 170-175, but in hot weather, I can get readings up to 215, then the fan cuts on. It drops it down to about 200, then will go back up to 215, back and forth. I have a 160 thermostat in, and if I run the defroster in winter, it'll barely get up to 160-the fan runs when the defroster is on. When it gets up to the 'O' in Normal, it is (on my Gen 1) at about 215. When down around the ''A', it is around 175. As a general rule, I figure that my temps are like this:
QUOTE]

This is exactly what mine does as well. I start to get concerned when I see the gauge fluxuate like this. I hope it is the hoses, they appear to be the original back when the car was first put together in late 92...hahaha!

Posted by: kustomizingkid

Drop in a 160 degree thermostat and everything should stay kool.

Posted by: Roadboss

He has a 160 in it already, and the only thing that really does is open up a little earlier once it's open it will stay open.

Posted by: mmtphoto

dropping a 160 thermostat is not going to 'solve' it in hot Florida weather-because the ambient temp is higher, it is more difficult to transfer heat and your fan is the last line of defense. It is set to activate at 215 degrees unless you change the perimeters in the ECM or you manually switch it. You will still see the needle go up to the higher range of normal in hot/warm weather, and it will drop to the point the fan shuts off (about 200 degrees). The coolant will be circulating from the engine into the radiator at a lower temp (a 160 BEGINS to open and is not fully open until it hits about 172-75), so it will delay somewhat getting to full operating temp, but it will get there especially if it is 95 degrees, you have the air on, and you are in stop and go traffic. Like someone else here said, it is 'normal' as long as it is in that range-the most important thing is that it does not go up and stay there-it should cycle between 200 to 215 on hot days if the ECM is original and the VCRM and sensors are functioning as they should.

If you hate the thing sitting on the 'O' you need to chip it or put in a switch.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

I have a chip! lol When the temp gauge needle is on 'O' and I have been driving for awhile. I notice that the inside of the cabin starts to get really hot, but the weather outside is 40 degrees. Do you consider that an issue or no?

Posted by: mmtphoto

I'd have to think that something wasn't right-if it's 40 degrees out, and you have a 160 thermostat in it, and the only load was driving and some accessories, it seems like it should not get to the point where the fan would kick on and it run at 215 ('O')-unless you had a blockage in the radiator, or like TRich said, the airdam is missing-they do make a big difference at speed.

Even if it is chipped and it was tuned so that the fan would come on at a lower temp, the fact that it heats up that high in cool temps has to mean something is not right. Others talk about bad senders or inaccurate gauges, that is a possiblilty. From everything I've read, these fans are the best electric fans out there, but that doesn't mean yours is working properly, I guess. You keep mentioning hoses-if the lower radiator hose is real soft, maybe at speed it is collapsing and restricting the flow-they used to put wire in lower hoses to fix that, don't know if that's done anymore.

And there is always the infamous air in the system-you know about that, who doesn't-nothing worse than a car that runs hot. unless it's an aluminum block

. As long as it doesn't get over 215, I don't know that i'd worry too much, but when it's hot outside and mine is up there, I watch it-that's all you can do until you figure it out-that is the high end of 'normal' for these engines.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

Like I mentioned before, I highly doubt there is air still stuck in the system. Last year I had the coolant flushed 3 times and had the system bled probably 4-5 times?! I am getting the hoses changed tomorrow and probably while I am at it, might as well change the damn temp sensor too.

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyLincolnMK8

I have a chip! lol

And that's part of the reason for higher temps.

If it's a switch chip, turn it to stock. If not, pull it. I'll bet you run cooler under the same driving conditions.

Take the hot tranny fluid away from the equation by using a stand-alone transmission cooler.

The other solution is the radiator. Partially clogged cooling fins and restricted flow thru the aged tubes will drastically reduce the cooling efficiency. Flushing the cooling system will only do so much. A new stock radiator will likely show a dramatic difference. Upgrade to a Cobra unit and I'd say you would even see better results.

Posted by: ford nut

I agree with Driller and Chicken, sounds like the radiator to me also.
If there is a radiator shop around they can boil it out and fix any issue with it, or buy new.
Also +1 with Driller with the trans cooler.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

I just replaced my hoses and the temp sender. Still no change, same $hit. Also I have a tranny cooler and this issue was happening way before I got my chip installed. I am leaning towards between the fan or the radiator that is the culprit.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by driller

Upgrade to a Cobra unit and I'd say you would even see better results.

Now do the Cobra radiators fit well? Or will there have to be some fab work involved? Also which year Cobra are you talking about? Thanks.

Posted by: 98LSC32V

The 03 Cobra radiator is not a direct drop in, there definitely is some fab work involved. Just get a stock one in my opinion. If a new radiator doesn't solve the problem try taking out the thermostat and running with no thermostat to see if it still runs hot.

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyLincolnMK8

I just replaced my hoses and the temp sender. Still no change, same $hit. Also I have a tranny cooler and this issue was happening way before I got my chip installed. I am leaning towards between the fan or the radiator that is the culprit.

But is your tranny cooler in series with the radiator?

Your fan may be a problem, but if so a new fan motor will fix that. By your description however, the fan seems to be doing the job. My money is on the radiator.

Posted by: poniesviii

I agree w the radiator. The fins are super slim, doesn't take much to clog them if antifreeze hasn't been changed out more than too often.

FYI I have yet to see a fan or hear of a fan that flows more cfm than our stock fan. The high dollar 4 whl rock climbers love scoring a radiator fan out of a mark over any aftermarket available, their jeeps and trucks move slow, get worked hard, and for alot of them our fans are the only ones that keep them cool.

I say if you have a 160 t and a fan that kicks on correctly you definately need a radiator and a system flush.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by driller

But is your tranny cooler in series with the radiator?

Yes, I have the tranny cooler attached to the radiator.

Posted by: driller

It will help to put in a stand alone cooler for the tranny, especially if you have gears. Just be sure it's big enough and you have a temp gauge for the tranny.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

It is a stand alone tranny cooler, I just mounted it on the radiator. I really do not understand what the tranny and the engine temp have anything to do with what I am talking about.

Posted by: turborich

The hot trans fluid is cooled by the radiator in a factory set up. The trans fluid enters the radiator in a portion that is sealed from the actual anti freeze/coolant. When the anti freeze/coolant passes over this it pulls the heat away from the transmission fluid, the radiator then has to cool this extra heat. This can cause higher engine temps.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by turborich

The hot trans fluid is cooled by the radiator in a factory set up. The trans fluid enters the radiator in a portion that is sealed from the actual anti freeze/coolant. When the anti freeze/coolant passes over this it pulls the heat away from the transmission fluid, the radiator then has to cool this extra heat. This can cause higher engine temps.

Thanks for explaining that to me. Makes a lot of sense now! I see that SCP sells the "OEM" radiators for $175.99. Maybe sometime very soon I will replace it. Lets just say that I replace the radiator and this issue still persists, what else could it be??

Posted by: turborich

Then I would start looking at the fan. I would just temp. bypass it with battery power to see how fast it spins. Maybe the fan motor itself could be getting weak?

I guess one thing at a time though. good luck.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by turborich

Then I would start looking at the fan. I would just temp. bypass it with battery power to see how fast it spins. Maybe the fan motor itself could be getting weak?

I guess one thing at a time though. good luck.

Thanks, you have been a lot of help! I appreciate it.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

Put some of that magic radiator cool stuff in your system!

I would have to say that having tried everything you have a radiator couldn't hurt.

Posted by: turborich

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyLincolnMK8

Thanks, you have been a lot of help! I appreciate it.

No prob! I went through my own cooling issues!