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Cobra intake in a Gen 1 (1996)?

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Posted by: shagdrum

What is involved in this? I can't find too much info on this (mostly Gen 2). I was thinkin about replacing the engine and it might be a good time to swap out the intake and throw headers on it.

I know the IMRC's on the 1996 (being the first year of OBD II) are different then the earlier Gen 1's; are they the same as on a Gen 2?

Can I use the plastic IMRC's from a 1998 Cobra?

What is involved in vaccum line/electrical line rerouting? What about throttle cable and cruise control cables?

Are there issues with the intake fitting under the stock Gen 1 hood?

I live in Kansas and would probably just delete the EGR system (no emmissions check unless you are moving into Kansas). Any input would be appriciated.

Posted by: shagdrum

anyone?

Posted by: Sal329

Im not 100% sure of what is all involved. One wouldn't think there would be too much. The intake, gaskets, maybe a new Throttle cable, extend the wires for a a sensor or 2, new throttle body?
Well I did a quick search and these are 2 I found
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/sho...ghlight=intake
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/sho...ghlight=intake

I was thinking of doin the swap but I think I will go with C heads and a 99/01 Cobra or Mach 1 intake, or maybe a KB supercharger.

Posted by: shagdrum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sal329

Im not 100% sure of what is all involved. One wouldn't think there would be too much. The intake, gaskets, maybe a new Throttle cable, extend the wires for a a sensor or 2, new throttle body?
Well I did a quick search and these are 2 I found
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/sho...ghlight=intake
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/sho...ghlight=intake

I was thinking of doin the swap but I think I will go with C heads and a 99/01 Cobra or Mach 1 intake, or maybe a KB supercharger.

I would imagine that would be even more work, as you would have to cut out the IMRC's (and probably switch out the computer to do so), as well as convert to coil-on-plug (if it is a Gen 1).

Unfortunately, of those links you posted, most of the detailed info was for a gen 2. Very little info on a gen 1.

Posted by: Battery

I know lonnie has done this on his. Maybe you could contact him. I've thought of it myself but talked myself out of finding more info... All too often I get hyped into spending more money than I have.

Posted by: k9t8m

Search

Posted by: Battery

Quote:

Originally Posted by shagdrum

What is involved in this? I can't find too much info on this (mostly Gen 2).

Like he says almost all the info out there is on the Gen II. I haven't found much useful stuff searching either.

Posted by: shagdrum

Quote:

Originally Posted by k9t8m

Read the original post.

Very little info on Gen 1 swaps. Most threads discuss Gen 2 swaps.

Posted by: chickenviii

mike (94m5) did it on his 95, pm him. i know he mentioned relocating the cruise servo and he didnt switch to COP's, and i dont know if he used the imrc's or not

Posted by: shagdrum

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickenviii

mike (94m5) did it on his 95, pm him. i know he mentioned relocating the cruise servo and he didnt switch to COP's, and i dont know if he used the imrc's or not

Wasn't sure if the cruise contol servo needed to be moved on the Gen 1's (I know it must be done on a Gen 2). The COP shouldn't be an issue with this intake, as the 1996-1998 Cobra's used spark plug wires, like the 1993-1996 Mark's (and I am not switching heads to the C heads). The IMRC's on a 1996 are different then on the 1993-1995, and I don't think they are the same as on the 1997-1998, either (not sure on that though).

Thanks for the input.
I might try to email him, but I also want to keep the info public for future reference (if anyone else is in my situation and wants to do this).

Posted by: chickenviii

you could control your imrc's with a nitrous window switch (rpm activated switch) thats what we did on the thundermark project, are the 96 imrc's electric or vacuum actuated? (either can work with a rpm switch) or is the issue the fitment to the cobra intake?

Posted by: shagdrum

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickenviii

are the 96 imrc's electric or vacuum actuated? (either can work with a rpm switch)

I think they are...both? Not sure. they are different then the earlier Marks, I know that.

Quote:

...or is the issue the fitment to the cobra intake?

I don't know. That is something I need clarification on.

Posted by: shagdrum

Ok, I found some info on the IMRC's in this thread:
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/sho...ight=1996+IMRC

93-95 vacuum ODB I
96 vacuum with ODB II
97-98 electronic control with cables

apparently, the 96 IMRC actuators are vacuum controled, but with a sensor on them. If I put the 1993-1995 actuators on, I would have a check engine light as the sensor couldn't tell if the IMRC's are open or not. Is there are way to switch to the '97-'98 (and presumably the 1996-1998 Cobra) actuators and not get a check engine light (or any drivability issues that may result from that)? The 1996 actuators are getting hard to find and mine will probably need to be replaced sometime soon at almost 200,000 miles. Might as well upgrade, if I am switching intakes.

Posted by: chickenviii

if your sticking with the vacuum imrc's all you need to wire up for the window switch is key on power, ground, 1 wire to a coil and a ground wire to trigger your stock imrc vac solenoid

Posted by: shagdrum

Ok, I found some info on "another message board" (linked for me by Battery) and I figured I would cut and paste some of the relevant portions and interesting tidbits here:

On the Gen 1 intake...

If you have a 1st Gen, no need to swap the manifolds. Port and polish the one that's on there right now, and you'll be more than fine

Ive ported a few of them now as well.The gains are nice,especially if you have it tuned afterward

Interesting...anyway, on to the next issue.

On hood fitment with the Cobra intake....

It fits under the stock hood. Look at Dennis R's 96 he's still using his stock hood. You have to cut about a foot long and 1 1/2 high section out of it right in the middle to clear the Cobra upper intake and the d/p unit for the egr though. But that's it and it's not hard to do. You don't cut the sealing area for the cowl seal at all just right up to it.

Don't know exactly what is ment by that; do you just cut the insulation on the underside of the hood, or are we talking cuttin into the hood itself?

anyway, here is something on the IMRC's...

The hard part is getting the Cobra IMRCs to work. On the Mark they are vacuum operated. Vacuum holds them closed and when the signal from the computer grounds the circuit then the sol. opens venting off the vacuum and the IMRCs spring open.

On the Cobra they are operated by an electric motor that bolts to the bottom of the intake. When the computer signals the motor it pulls 2 cables opening the IMRCs. When the signal is pulled away springs close the IMRCs.

So what you have to do is build your own circuit with a relay that operates the motor. Power is on all the time on the Mark EEC for the IMRC sol. where it’s just the opposite on the Cobra. So you will need a relay that supplies power to the motor when voltage is removed.

...So a simple polarity swap using a relay for the IMRCs will work?

Yes in simple terms that’s what you are doing with the relay. An easier way would be to just leave the lead from the EEC cut and use a window switch. You will need to get a tach driver also to activate the window switch though, MSD.

...The Mark IMRCs won’t work with the Cobra intake. The vacuum actuators get in the way of the fuel rails and the EGR tube. So you are stuck using the Cobra IMRC or the 97/98 Mark’s since they are cable operated too. Then you also have to use the Cobra IMRC controller motor box that bolts up under the intake and wire it up with the new circuit.

And on the throttle and cruise control cables...

As for throttle cables, I used the factory Cobra cable but it just barely fits due to the wiper motor being in the way. I mean it works fine and all just very tight and I haven’t had any problems with it. Your stock cruise control cable will work. You have to pull off your driver’s side wheel and inner fender and reroute the cable to reach the new throttle position though. The end that fastens to the T/B has to be switched to the proper connector.

So...can any of you experts make sense of all that?

Do you just need to cut the insulation on the hood, or do you have to cut the hood for fitment?

If you use the Cobra (or '97-'98 Mark) IMRC's, do you get a check engine light due to no input on the IMRC sensors, or do the Cobra and Gen 2 IMRC's have a sensor input?

Any ideas on throttle cables that might work?

Which wires do you need to use to create the circuit to actuate the IMRC's?

Posted by: m_maker

The swap is easy but it's a lot of work. Stock hood won't fit without big k member spacers and shaved intake hat or removed 2nd ply of hood material (after removing the hoodliner). D.R. won't tell you all the tricks, but it doesn't fit under stock hood without serious chopping ... been there done that on three different ocassions. IMRCs are solved with a simple relay, no need for the window switch. Use 2nd gen throttle cable, relocate the cruise module and reuse it's cable. Redo the wiring to go around the intake, delete unnecessary vac tubes and ports, scratch EGR, and GET A TUNE or it will run funny.

Posted by: chickenviii

hmmmmmmm, sounds like your entering virgin territory with the 96, id get a tune when you do the intake and they can shut off the imrc's then just control it like they said above

Posted by: Battery

If you do end up undertaking this let me know as I've considered it myself since I got the car, but I have far from the knowledge or experience to pioneer something of the sort.

Posted by: shagdrum

If I do this, it won't be for quite a while. Right now, I am getting all my ducks in a row; make sure I know what is involved, the costs vs. benefits and what I need to prep for.

Posted by: Battery

Check out this find. http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...ra+swap+intake

Posted by: AbrahamLincoln

weeew what a big install! good to see someone laid it all out for everyone, real cool of Lonnie. is the juice worth the squeeze though? 18 hours 700 dollars in parts for 40 horsepower?

Posted by: 94m5

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbrahamLincoln

weeew what a big install! good to see someone laid it all out for everyone, real cool of Lonnie. is the juice worth the squeeze though? 18 hours 700 dollars in parts for 40 horsepower?

Something about "paying to play" comes to mind here.

Posted by: ford nut

Quote:

Originally Posted by shagdrum

On the Gen 1 intake...[indent]If you have a 1st Gen, no need to swap the manifolds. Port and polish the one that's on there right now, and you'll be more than fine

Ive ported a few of them now as well.The gains are nice,especially if you have it tuned afterward

This looks like the way to go to me....but I am lucky I know my bro can port and polish

Posted by: RedHotMark96

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbrahamLincoln

weeew what a big install! good to see someone laid it all out for everyone, real cool of Lonnie. is the juice worth the squeeze though? 18 hours 700 dollars in parts for 40 horsepower?

$700 for 40hp sounds pretty good to me. People pay $400 for a tuner w/tune for ~20hp. The question is whether you have the stomach and the time to spend 18 hours on it.

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