Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums

(This is the forums archive - If you want to get back to the main site simply click the banner above and you will be taken to our homepage.)

Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums is the Ultimate Online Resource for Owners and Enthusiasts of American Luxury Cars. Feel free to browse through our archive - but make sure you make it back to our main site - Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums

Cadillac XLR : Cadillac CTS : Cadillac : 2005 Cadillac STS : Cadillac Forums : 2000 Lincoln LS : Lincoln Mark VIII : Lincoln Mark VII : Car Wax
Lincoln Town Car : Lincoln Air Suspension : Lincoln Continental : Lemon Law : Do It Yourself Car Repair : Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums : Mesothelioma

Back to the Archive Main Page

Pages: 1

Timing Chain Noise??

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: johnboy89

I recently purchased a 93 mark VIII that has the dreaded timing chain tick/clack. It only does it when cold(about 10min.) and is quite loud, going away when it warms up. I know adding synthetic(next on to do list) and changing to correct oil filter which I already have will quiet it some, but is it okay to leave for awhile or does it need to be addressed right away? Also is it a big job to change/fix this???

Thanx

Posted by: PIMPLINC

well considering I am going to change mine come the 15 second tick, 10 Min is really

I am at the 4 second tick right now but the anti drain back smartens it up a lot. Being that the dohc 4.6 is an interference motor I would make haste on changing it... one skipped tooth & it may be game over for a few or all of your valves....In retrospect the tensioners needs to be addressed for sure!! but like anything else mechanical do the "works" when you have it apart......My friend has done the chains in his and it was simple just pull the rad & you can do it in the car.

Posted by: panthermike

Mine used to do a 3-4 sec. noise but when i switched to royal purple synthetic it either is 1-2 sec. or none. 10 min sucks though.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

10 minutes??

I wouldn't drive your car until you got the tensoiners changed.

Posted by: johnboy89

It does go on for some time, but the noise varies during that time. Sometimes goes away and other times it's back. What's interesting is that this morning I really didn't hear it at all. I'm starting to wonder if it's something other than the tensioners as it seems others only have the problem for a short period of time

To me it sure sounds like a chain rattle though and it goes away when I depress the gas in park and comes back on decelleration. About how long does it take to do them and are there any special tools I need to buy? Do the chains need to completely come off??

Posted by: mmtphoto

Quote:

Originally Posted by kustomizingkid

10 minutes??

I wouldn't drive your car until you got the tensoiners changed.

ditto-
non-interference engine, it would be almost (surely)be fatal if it went at the wrong time-park it, drive a beater, save it-it is not worth the risk.

Not a job for the faint of heart, but it can be done if you take your time-I am a big fan of the anti-drainback valve on a good oil filter, but it's up to you-if you have any major doubts, you should at least get a second opinion. If it sounds better, that's encouraging.

Posted by: chickenviii

since you just got the car id change the oil and filter (motorcraft FL820 S) and i wouldn't recommend the chains for anyone without a ford service manual and all the special tools, cuz just like if your chain skips, if you put it out of time then fire it, its over anyways.

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

You'd think it would be as simple as, pulling the cover, marking the gears in their current place, if the timing is still good, remove the old chains, replace with new chains, replace tensioner, replace cover.

But then again, I'm not Ford Mechanic either, I'll look it up in my manual.

Check it out!
This is for a 1997 Mark VIII

http://cis.macc.edu/~aboley/97%20Mark8%20Timing.pdf

Oh, that looks simple!!!!!! Someone else try it first and let me know how it goes!!!!

Posted by: XLRVIII

Try this....
When you first start the car, before turning the key..
Press the gas pedal to the floor and hold it.
Crank the ignition for 5-8 seconds, do not release the gas pedal.

with the gas pedal depressed your are telling the PCM the engine is flooded and it wont fire the injectors and the engine wont start.

After cranking for 5-8 seconds, release the key, release the gas pedal and then crank the car, it will start, it wont be as noisy because you "primed" the cam chain tensioners when you were doing the 5-8 second crank with the gas pedal held down.

works really well.. if you ask me.
Give it a shot.

Posted by: johnboy89

Well I changed the oil to Mobil I and already have a Napa gold filter in there which is supposed to be a anti-drainback filter. The noise is still there and appears to almost be worse now and there most of the time. It does quiet down considerably when the car warms up, but is still there if you rev it up in neutral you can hear it clack when getting off the gas(RPM decreasing). I spent sometime after work today trying to locate the noise. The more I listen it appears it is coming from the center area of intake tubes or passenger valve cover area. I tried with the stethoscope to narrow it down with no success

. Maybe later this week I'll record the noise with my camera and post, so everyone can hear it.

Thanx

Posted by: kustomizingkid

I'm not joking, DON NOT drive the car if it is making that much noise. The chains skip one tooth and your engines

ED!

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by kustomizingkid

I'm not joking, DON NOT drive the car if it is making that much noise.

I agree, the noise shouldn't be an "all the time noise".

the method I describe above is only to solve/decrease the normal ordinaly cam chain rattle.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

I use the full throttle method after changing my oil, they really rattle if you don't right after changing the oil and filter.

Posted by: johnboy89

Thoughts??????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsCt-kEJKvU

Thanx for the help

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

johnyboy

what's your youtube username?

Posted by: chickenviii

sounds like a broken valve spring to me

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickenviii

sounds like a broken valve spring to me

I agree, time to pull a valve cover off and see what "doesnt look right".

Posted by: kustomizingkid

That sounds really bad, I would even crank that motor over until you open it up and see whats up. I've heard a 2v eat a valve spring, it was a bit louder than that.

Posted by: mmtphoto

sounds expensive-sorry dude, it does sound like a rocker arm or a valve spring, it should be obvious which side it's on. that su3ks-Ouch.

Posted by: ford nut

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

I agree, time to pull a valve cover off and see what "doesnt look right".

Too much RPM red line means red line

My guess would be bent or out of place rocker.
Listen to the kid dont drive it untill you fix it unless you want to destoy it.

Posted by: XLRVIII

If its "only" a rocker, valve spring or lifter.. it's "not that bad"...as it can be repaired with only removing the valve cover.

If you get in there quickly and fix it, you might "dodge the bullet".
IF it's not a lifter, rocker or valve spring... it might be "terminal" in the case of a valve or piston.

I'd pull the valve cover very soon and see what looks like it's "not like the others".

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford nut

Too much RPM red line means red line

heck I run mine well into an past the redline.
commanding the 1-2 shift at 6500 and it actually completes the shift somewhere in the 7200 range.
Would I suggest others do that.. NOPE.
but I aint scared to break something either..haha

Posted by: 98LSC32V

Definitely something in the valvetrain. You can try to run seafoam in the crankcase and pray it's a stuck lash adjuster...

Posted by: ford nut

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

I too rev past red.... BUT you and I would have had the cover off by now.

Posted by: johnboy89

Well took the passenger cover off today and found nothing. All the springs looked good as much of them as I could see. Rockers were all tight nothing loose or bent. Not sure what was in the oil when I bought the car, but the noise has really started after I changed the oil and especially after putting synthetic in there. Noise still appears to be coming from the center rear intake area. Also noticed that the cam gear has a date code of F5, which tells me that someone has been inside that engine before???? After running the car for about ten minutes as stated above you would never know it was the same car.

Posted by: Roadboss

Here's an off the wall shot. How about a marginally loose spark plug.

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadboss

Here's an off the wall shot. How about a marginally loose spark plug.

You know, that's a very good idea..
That is very close to the sound my car made just seconds before "launching a plug" thru the coil cover.

But.. I dont think it is what is happenning to his car, because it "hasn't launched the plug" yet.

Mine made about 10 good "taps" before the plug "launched".

IF it was a loose plug in his car, I'd presume/speculate it would have launched by now.

"couldn't hurt" to pull the coil covers and verify the plugs are good and tight and dont have a busted plug with a combustion leak..

Posted by: 2002WRXSTi

My engine makes the same noises when it's cold out. I mean the same loud tapping as your YouTube video. It was to the point that I would go out and start it, go inside and get my stuff. Then when I came back out it would be quiet again. Did this all winter too and was worried about it.

I went and got the timing chain gear assembly that is damn expensive! 4 chains and 6 sprockets and guides at RockAuto was quite a few 100! So I looked at the manual to see what I was looking at and of course it wants you to use an expensive cam tool too

My IMRC went bad after that I bought one and of course got the wrong one

I tripped upon a 96' enigne on EBAY with 90k on the clock for $375 and $150 shipping. So now I am just looking at doing a full swap. Mostly cause my car just quit last night and wont fire at all

Posted by: kustomizingkid

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

How many motors have you gone through in 400k?
How many transmissions?

Posted by: 2002WRXSTi

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

Yeah what are you doing or what did you do to that car that allows you to pull it so high in the RPM range? I mean the stock intake and stuff has to be dead at those upper RPM ranges.

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by kustomizingkid

How many motors have you gone through in 400k?
How many transmissions?

My original engine that was still running when I pulled it out lasted until 360,000 miles. It had tossed the secondary cam chain tensioner, and was making more racket than in the youtube video above.

I drove it for 25K like that, and since the noise only happend on start up, the motor likely would have lasted many more miles... BUT...
I was knee deep in the middle of a season long points race "Street Stock Bracket Race" and I was in First Place, so I didn't want to take a chance on having the engine "toss itself" while "on the track"....so I replaced it.

Transmission, my original transmission lost reverse, well it still HAD reverse but it shuddered really bad when backing up...

SO I secured a 98 LSC trans and dropped it in.

I dont attribute either of those failures to "high RPM".
The nylon pad on the cam tensioner finally "wore thru".... I could have easily just replaced the tensioner and went on with life.

IMHO it was much easier to "R&R" the whole engine than it was to start taking it apart to find and fix the source of the noise.

SO in short.. to answer your question.
I have been thru 1 motor and 1 trans in 360,000 mile and well over 5000 dragstrip passes {which comes out to about 1100 miles of WOT)

Posted by: mmtphoto

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

that is truly amazing and a testament to the strength of these engines.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

Are you serious XLRVIII??

That is freaking amazing.

Posted by: 2002WRXSTi

Yeah it's kinda funny cause I was just taking my Boss for a ride somewhere the day before my Mark broke down.

He was like I cannot believe this car is still running with the way you drive it

He was most likely shocked because of the broken motor mount and every time I would leave out of a light you hear a loud clank and thud as the engine tries to remove itself from the engine bay

Since I have a spare engine I am not to nice to the original engine. Just pissed me off that it quit running in such a non spectacular way

Internet Advertising:Homeowner Loans:Remortgages:Mortgage Loans:Secured Loans