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Just another Mark VIII charging system story...

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Posted by: driller

While attending Ray's funeral services, two Mark VIIIs were in attendance... and you know with two Mark VIIIs, there HAS to be an incident.

The wife and I had brought the '96, waking it from it's winter slumber in the driveway. In preparation, I packed the toolbox and jump-box "just-in-case" the winter weather had any suprises in store.

MsM8tress had brought "Tux", her '96, and had just replaced the alternator in the last couple days.

Anyone see where this story is obviously going?

Before we departed for home, her battery light had come on. I offered for her to follow me to I-70, where she would go west and I would continue south. Sure enough, a very few miles later, her car conked out and we pulled off the shoulder of the busy 6 lane expressway.

I had neglected to bring my volt meter with the tool box, but a quick hook-up of the jump-box confirmed the alternator was not charging. After a few phone calls while waiting on a AAA tow truck, we had located an alternator at a NAPA store back where we came from. After the DOT truck stopped and put out some flares, the tow truck finally arrived. We elected to have her car towed to the NAPA store where I offered to change out the alternator. NAPA wasn't thrilled having someone working on a car in their parking lot, but after a few minutes, car was running, no battery light and MsM8tress was elated. Off we go to the gas station a couple hundred yards away before heading down the highway once again.

Now, I was worried she would turn the car off at the pump. To her credit, she left it idle while refueling. But Tux stalled and died pulling away from the pump! Battery light was on again! A quick jump and back to the NAPA store we go. Well, almost. LOL

Tux had run out of juice once again in the left turn lane in front of NAPA.

Again I hooked up the jump box. I told her we were going to 'do it NASCAR style' and I would signal her to start the car, disconnect the jump box and close the hood and she could dart across to the parking lot. Watching for a break in traffic, I cued her to start 'er up and I disconnected the jump box, closed the hood, and stepped back as Tux darts across the street into the parking lot... and stalled again.

The friendly NAPA crew suggested the battery was toast.

After a few miniutes on a charger, the one-year old CarQuest battery tested low(duh!) and we reluctantly replaced the battery. STILL, the battery light was on but obviously the car was running on new battery juice. We were ushered down the street to a garage to have the charging system checked out since NAPA was confident of the new alternator(I certainly wasn't).

Turns out the 20A fuse under the hood for the alternator was blown! No power was getting to the internal regulator. In all my years of being around Mark VIIIs and even more years with Fords, I have NEVER seen that fuse blow.

Weirder still, when we had left NAPA originally, the battery light was off, confirming it was charging. So the fuse had to have blown while at the gas station? I wish I would've had my volt meter during the trip.

Regardless, the rest of the journey was uneventful and everyone made it back home safe.

Posted by: brentalan

I've had the battery lights not indicate a problem unilt the charge was extremely weak before. (Different cars) I thought maybe that's because my alternators werent' complete toast and they were providing something. Anyway, glad you found the solution and everyone got home safe!

Posted by: Roadboss

It was a blessing you were around there Driller. Glad you got her running. There must be a reason that it blew, what is your suspicion ?

Posted by: chickenviii

wow that sux, note to self bring voltmeter, ive seen that fuse blow alot all the new guys at work throw a alt at the prob to be burned when it just needed a fuse/fuse link /wiring prob etc. glad you guys got her up and running. i knew it was a bad sign when she said her battery light was on, unfortunately we went the other direction almost instantly, and the only tools i had in the truck was a 50' chain and a shovel, yup i drove through a snow storm on my way out, so my concern with tools was digging/pulling out

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadboss

There must be a reason that it blew, what is your suspicion ?

My suspicion is 1 of 2 things.

The aftermarket alarm puzzled me the way it was acting during the whole scenario. Could it be they tapped that circuit?

The fuse could've blown due to too much amperage in the regulator's battery sense circuit feeding the field voltage to the new alternator trying to charge the dead battery.

The second suspicion is the more credible one since we know it was charging after the swap. When she was idling at the pump at the gas station, the low rpm of the alternator would've been struggling to supply enough power to bring the battery back to life. The field current kept increasing until the fuse blew.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickenviii

...ive seen that fuse blow alot all the new guys at work throw a alt at the prob to be burned when it just needed a fuse/fuse link /wiring prob etc.

If the fuse would've been blown prior to the alternator swap, it would've never started charging with the new alternator.

One thing for certain now, I'll ALWAYS check that fuse first .

Posted by: Roadboss

I have a feeling your assesment is on the mark, as many times when dead battery occurs I have found dead alternator to follow due to jump start. Thanks for the info, got to go get battery charged on Whiner as I haven't started in over a month and battery is dead, so shall recharge then reinstall prior to start.

Posted by: vr4

ive seen that fuse blown 5 times in the last 7 years. not common but it does happen.

Posted by: Sergmark

I too have never seen one of those fuses blow on the many used cars I have had. Maybe just luck.
Jp Thats a good leson for all of us to check that fuse now!!
Debi is very lucky you were there.. JP You the Mann!!!

Posted by: GMAN

Wow! I bet Debi was screaming bloody murder!

Posted by: MsM8tress

Driller failed to mention that it was friggin cold, the whole incident took over 4hours and yes I was a mess the entire time! lol We headed out around 2:00, but finally got on the road and running sometime after 6:00!!!!

I can't tell you how much that meant to me, actually had me crying, after all it was Valentines day, and Mrs. Driller was nothing but completely understanding and comforting - even when the cigs were gone, still cool as cucumbers...man, I really can't find words to tell ya how much I appreciate all the time, work, and trying to keep contained and get Tux on the road! lol

Driller was like a one man miracle machine, he had located an alt ONLY 10 MILES AWAY!!! Of course one of the first calls I made was to the original alt's supplier, CarQuest, they never did locate one and he had a computer right in front of him at CarQuest, driller just whipped out his palm top and found one even before the AAA guy got there, the CarQuest guy never did locate one. I ended up calling him back telling him driller found one at NAPA and he needed to make the purchase! The one I had installed two days prior had to shipped from Cleveland! The CarQuest guy took care of paying for the alt over the phone with the NAPA guy, they were really sorry about the whole thing

I must say the CarQuest guy was trying very hard, he had called all around where we were, but drillers skilllz shined, he found the alt, had it installed, and had me back on the road in 15-20 mins, no kidding (that is if the fuse thing wasn't messing us up). CarQuest felt very bad when I took the maybe bad alt back

OK..I am going out on a ledge here, I am not familiar with the charging system or electrical at all, but check this out...

I've tried to recall exactly what was going on before the light came on..
now with the 410 gear, and all the ice slippery roads, I was gunnin him a lot to get around. Yes I know slow will get you out, but in some cases due to traffic, I had to, and well yeah, it was fun too. Would revin' up the engine have caused it to blow? I don't know if it is coincidence, but if I recall correctly, before the light came I gunned him to make a turn. It was not immediately, but maybe 2-5 minutes after.

And I am gonna ask this one just out of lack of knowledge, so don't slam me, oh who am I kidding....lol! but with the above scenario, would the higher gears have increased the possibility of the fuse blowing?

Oh yes, if it wasn't know before, I am now a full fleged Driller's groupie! I love you guys!!!! THANKS!!!!!!!

Serg - not luck, that was all God's grace babe. Ray had a fondness for Tux, when he was no longer there for Tux and me, I just kept wondering who is gonna take care of us now??? It was like Ray showing me that I'm in more than capable hands, and Gods way of telling me to get my head outta my butt.

Thanks again Drillers!!!

Smooches!
Debi

Posted by: driller

LOL... between the BlackBerry, Palm and Tom-Tom the CarQuest guy didn't stand a chance. It's cool he took care of the new alternator though.

It wasn't anything that hard... I was just glad to help and Mrs. Driller knows I'm not leaving someone stranded, Valentine's Day or not. Besides. we really didn't have anything planned and she had her present waiting back home.

'Gunning it' wouldn't have anything to do with it - lol, if it did the Blue Flame would never be charging.

I just think the alternator was one of those remans that never seem to last.

Posted by: MsM8tress

I drove for about an hour with the heat off, I was freezing so I finally turned it on, never did turn on the radio, and yes the blinking lights continued all the way home!

Alarm is out, gone!! The alarm/auto starter and all it's wicked wires are in a box if anyone is interested.

I always did have issues with the system, if I used the Lincoln remote, the alarm would go off, I had to use the auto starter remote. Then sometimes I would try to use the keypad to open, he would open, but the alarm would go off and the only fob that would shut it off was the Lincoln remote..pain carrying them both around. Regardless it is OUT! Never again will I screw with the wires (not that I put this on, it was on when I got him)...like a rejected kidney transplant...horrible!!!

Debi

Posted by: pepperman

The power of LVC peeps helping one another is an awesome thing.

Posted by: NYC LS8

Nice job, JP!!!

Posted by: The Rev

my battery light goes on and off, but i havent gotten around to testing the voltage, i havent noticed a dip in performance or anything, and its not like the battery light comes on when im idling or anything, or when im on the highway. this fuse is in the power distrubution box? if it could be a fuse i'd wanna replace that and see if it changes

Posted by: MsM8tress

I never knew a fuse to blow intermittently, still, I'm a wossie, I'd leave it alone, but carry a 20 amp fuse just in case! lol

MsM8

Posted by: AbrahamLincoln

F.ound O.n R.oad D.ead

Posted by: mafioso

I have not had a lick of trouble with Nathan's alt.

Everyone might want to look into it.

Posted by: NateRW21

I sold you an alternator?????

:-D

Posted by: mafioso

hahah I meant Nathan from excessive Amperage.

Posted by: MsM8tress

Guess what Hotties, my boy boy wants yet another alternator this will make the 3rd one since february. This is insane. No indication, no nothing, as I pull into the driveway the light comes on. Get him hooked up and, battery is good alt is putting out good, but after the diag. on the alt the machine coded with bad alt. pattern......

The only modification I have had done to him for over a year is the SCT X3 Power flash. I am calling them tomorrow to see if they can help me figure out if it is something with that....I am so frutstrated and at wits end with it.

Driller, I am going to bring him over so you can spank some sense into him....other than that, I am out of ideas....

Help....

MsM8

Posted by: vr4

buy motorcraft

Posted by: MsM8tress

well the first one was CarQuest, the second (two weeks later) was Napa, since it is still covered the second will prolly be Napa too. They will pay for the install also.... I am thinkn I should take him somewhere to get some major diagnostic tests because something is not right..I can't chalk this up to crappy parts (had them before too, thanks though).

Oh I did have the serp. belt replaced between now and then also.

Driller, I checked the fuse also, it's good.

Posted by: driller

Every one you've been putting on has been a reman. If you get a Mototcraft - it will be a reman. Quit the reman cycle and get a new one from PA Performance. The one I got from there lasted over 3 years severe duty on my '93.

EDIT: If you have diagnostics done - they won't find anything unless they check for amperage draw. One major suspect would be the cooling fan. It can start going bad drawing too many amps and overloading the alternator. It shouldn't be taking any more than 20A on high speed.

Posted by: MsM8tress

yeah, I dont know if they will refund in full. but heck, would be worth it, I cant be driving around and have the bat lite come on, then dead in 10 mins.

I am just poooooooed! to the hilt.....I will see about a full refund.

You dont think the belt or the sct has anything to do with it do you driller?

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsM8tress

You dont think the belt or the sct has anything to do with it do you driller?

Nope, unless the belt is slipping like crazy which would be obvious.

Posted by: Abbens

on my 95 when its night time and the car is at idle the battery light is on but its dim. the moment I hit the gas either in park or when driving the light goes off. I hit system check no problem with voltage. I took out my dvom and it said when car was idle 13.7 when I know it should be higher so I will check if it that fuse good thing this thread was bumped thanks.

Posted by: Icarus

When the 1 year old alt on my car died when I first got it, it took out the 1 yr old battery as well. The battery tested borderline ok after, but would not hold a charge after so I replaced it at the same time...
I'm not to fond of Motorcraft batteries (although I did get another), but I'd definately stick with an OEM alternator.

Also check the connectors to the alt as well to see if they are degrading or loose, same with all the battery/ground connections...

Posted by: XLRVIII

If you put a reman alternator on your car, it's very likely you will be putting another one on in a very short time.

In my case, on my first gen.. I had a lifetime warranty Orielly's Auto Parts Alternator.
They would die just about 1 year later, TO THE DAY.

I just swapped them in oreilly's parking lot and give them a SMOKING HOT alternator. I tell them everytime "becareful it's hot" and the dumbasses reach down and grab it EVERYTIME.
(lol)

Changing the Alternator is a 10 minute job, pulling the belt is the hardest part.

you have two choices, get a NEW motorcraft Alternator.. or go buy a "second reman alternator" and chunk it in the trunk for a spare.

Posted by: ford nut

I got my reman from Max

No problems.
If you dont go PA go to Max for a reman.
You will do better off then any abz auto part joint.

Posted by: mespock

I always keep an Alt on the shelf. Good luck Debi...

I just wouldn't be right without the fustrations LOL...

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford nut

I got my reman from Max

+1 for Max!

Posted by: MsM8tress

I LOVE MAX - he is an EXTREME LVC Hottie!!!

MsM8

Posted by: mespock

A #1 Max..

Posted by: JMiles_T

I bought one of those voltage monitors that plugs into a cigarette lighter socket. $16 at Amazon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLRVIII

...or go buy a "second reman alternator" and chunk it in the trunk for a spare.

That's what I've done. Thankfully, I haven't needed it yet.

Posted by: MsM8tress

dang it...I cant get past takin off the stupid belt.....crap.....it's as obvious as it looks right, there is a gap in the bracket that holds the pully tight, I pull it counter clock wise if standing in front of the alt correct..?.....gerrrrrr...lol got it

Posted by: mmtphoto

I bought a 200 amp alternator on ebay from this seller;

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...d=dbelectrical

it was around $200, and I bought a new battery-it solved my alternator problems (hopefully forever) but I did get my old alternator rebuilt and it is on the shelf, ready to go into service at a moments notice

After 6+ years of Mark ownership (2 different cars) I know these were not meant to be everyday drivers

Posted by: XLRVIII

Look at the belt tensioner arm {passenger side of the engine}

there is a 1/2 square hole that just so happens to fit nicely with a 1/2 drive ratchet.

when you attach the ratchet handle TO the tensioner arm you push the ratchet handle towards the drivers side of the car to release the tension on the belt.

you are correct.. the belt removal is the hardest part of the job

Posted by: MsM8tress

Whawooooooo!!!!! Driller you are a good teacher - thanks XLRVIII! The silly little connector thing to something was in my way not letting me pull the tensioner back far enough - but got it off - got it on, now to return the old one

oh yeah....and find my hands under all this wonderful grime!!!!!

I love you guys!!!

SMOOCHES!!!!

Posted by: XLRVIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMiles_T

I bought one of those voltage monitors that plugs into a cigarette lighter socket. $16 at Amazon.

friend of mine bought exacty that item.. disassembled it.. wired it to the backside of the lighter and put the display where his traction control button "isnt".. {his car doesnt have TC)

Posted by: MsM8tress

that would be interesting to see - next time your in there ask him if it's ok if you share and take a pic to post, Id like to see.... hehhe whats new! lol

mmtphoto - I will remember that , my 95 is wanting another alt too, I will take the reman in my 96 put it in her and get the better alt for my 96...(shhhhh...dont tell her, the 95!)

MsM8

Posted by: mmtphoto

with the 200 amp they recommend you install a 4 gauge wire and run it from the alternator post to the + post on the battery- When I ordered mine, it took about a week to get it because they do the rebuild after the purchase, so if you are in a hurry, figure on that.

There is no core charge, so the one I took off got rebuilt by a guy here locally, and it was upgraded also, cost me $73 and sits on a shelf in my garage, ready to go when needed. Lincolns need spare parts. siblings get jealous.