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"Ray's switch".. the legend continues !!

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: devilchild

as we all know by now.. Ray has moved on to a better place...

i do not know if anyone else knows how to make his "patented" switch..

i have received emails..and have seen posts asking about the kit ..

so.. i feel that i must do what Ray himself would do... help others the best i can..

i may have the last.. or one of the last switches as i recieved it the end of November..and have yet to install it

i am going to include pictures of the kit... followed by the best description of the kit that i can give.. and the exact install instructions that Ray sent me..

this may take me a few posts so be patient...

if anyone wants to attempt to make this switch..good luck.. i wouldnt even know where to begin..

Posted by: devilchild

here are some pics... ill follow up with a post of descriptions of the pics

Posted by: devilchild

ok... the first pic....that just verifies the authenticity..haha

the second pic is how it came in the package..

3rd pic...... shows the length ..and overall view of the whole kit

4th pic...... above that clear box there are 2 plugs that say " fuse" written on tape

5th pic..... blurry clse up of that box... im clueless on what exactly it is

6th pic....... 2 black boxes/modules taped together..once again im clueless..

7th pic...... basic 3 prong switch

8th pic..... 4 blue plugs located about 1ft fro 2 blak boxes..says"suspension control module/blackconnector" written on tape around all 4...then...2 of the plugs say "connector"..and 2 say"harness"

9th pic...... 5 pink connectors same disatnce from 2 black boxes as blue connectors..." suspension control module / grey connector" written on tape around all 5

10th pic......3 plugs at the other end before the switch...2 pink..1 blue...1 pink says"ground" and the other pink says"12v"... the blue also says "12v"

11th pic..... are the connectors(or whatever they are called) that he sent with the kit

Posted by: devilchild

install instructions... exactly as they were sent to me from Ray..

The link at the bottom is what I send out for ppl to use to install the kit. The only part that is not on those directions is the 2 sets of blue wire with the yellow connectors at the ends....here is what you have to do with them:

On the suspension control module there are 2 connectors....one is gray, and one is black. The gray one is all the solenoid and signals for the bags/compressor. The black one supplies the 12 volts to the suspension controller. What you have to do is disconnect the black connector and then cut back some of the tape that is on the wiring harness for that connector (the black one that is). Give yourself about 2-3 inches of wire, so when you cut them, you can hook them back up if at some time you would like to if you remove the kit. After you cut back the tape, find the two dark green with yellow striped wires (pins 1 and 21), they are DIRECTLY across from each other in the black connector. Cut them both (you can either remove the fuse for the wires, or just be careful not to touch the cutters to anything that could ground the wires), but again give yourself at least an inch of wire from the connector, so you can reconnect if so desired at a later date. Once they are cut, you will have a set of cut wires on the harness side, and a set of wires on the connector side. What you will need to do is to connect the set on the harness side to the wires marked harness side on the kit, then connect the set on the connector side to the wires marked connecotr side on the kit.

As for the 5 red connectors for the gray connector, there is no order in which they need to be installed, you can hook them to which ever wire you want to (as per the directions of course)

If this does not make any sense, or you want to ask a few questions you can either email me or call me at 917-453-9819

Ray

http://www.lincolnmarkviii.org/suspe...uspension2.htm

Posted by: kustomizingkid

Hmmmm.... a good friend of mine is studying electrical engineering.

If we can figure out how to make this I think it would only be right to offer it at cost, I couldn't imagine making money off something Ray designed and built.

Posted by: devilchild

if anyone would like to add anything that i left out or didnt know..

feel free to join in..

and if anyone has any questions on what i posted let me know and ill help to the best of my knowledge

Posted by: devilchild

i believe Ray only charged me around $30 - $40.... so im guessing that what it would cost to make

Posted by: Cobramarkviii

Just to let you know, I would not use them Splice Connectors to tap into the wires, should strip the wire a little bit, poke threw it and loop the wire you need to connect into and then solder it, and wrap it with Electrical tape.. I never trust those connections.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

I got the go ahead from my Electrical Guru friend, he said if we can get a switch an a wiring diagram for the Mark hw would have no problem reverse engineering it.

Posted by: kustomizingkid

So does anyone have one of these that they are willing to ship one to me. My friend has a rough idea of what everything is but would like a Ray's Switch in his hands. The clear box is the only thing that is even remotely concering, but he doesn't think it will be a problem once he can get it in his hands.

Posted by: Russo

The clear box is just a DEI 528T Pulse Timer relay.
All it does is it applies 12V to each of the bags' solenoid to open it, and opens the vent solenoid. The 528T is adjustable up to 90 seconds I believe, so it controls how long the car vents for.
So the whole thing is rather simple - the switch triggers the 528T, and then it applies 12V to all those wires for however long it's set for.

http://www.amazon.com/DEI-528T-Pulse.../dp/B0009IR4AC

Posted by: Russo

these are the wires that need 12V applied to them for the car to vent.

Posted by: MERIJONS97LSC

Before you go any further with this, did you get permission from Ray's family...It is a patented item?

Posted by: MsM8tress

good point... I would have never though of asking cause we are Rays family, but your right, that would be the right thing to do, even though I know that his dad and brothers would not have any issue with it, it would be the right and respectful thing to do. thanks hun

Now...would any one like to trouble shot Rays switch combined with a spyder valve to see what the heck Tux is trippin on...! Ray installed both, last fall started having lots of trouble, have had to shut the airride off...Ray was gonna look at it as soon as the weather broke, and I just dont know enough about the valve to figure it out...I do know that there are no leaks. If so shot me a pm...I am willing to come to you...heck..now looks like I will be going to see Eddy if I can't get him workin right.

Thanks again Merijons97LSC.

Debi

Posted by: devilchild

ooops... i didnt even think of it possibly being patented !?!..

ive seen a few different versions of the same thing so i just figured Ray had created "his version"...

im sure no one on here would even attempt to make money from this..

either way.. i hope i didnt step on any toes

Posted by: MERIJONS97LSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilchild

ooops... i didnt even think of it possibly being patented !?!..

ive seen a few different versions of the same thing so i just figured Ray had created "his version"...

im sure no one on here would even attempt to make money from this..

either way.. i hope i didnt step on any toes

No man!! Your heart's in the right place!!!! It may not be patented..just to be on the safe side.

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

I'd also be willing to contribute to help the Ray switch live on, I had already paid Ray and was waiting for him to get back home to finish the kit. He was unable to that so I'd be willing to take this on. I'm in contact with another member that has one that said he would send it to me. If he can find it that is, it's all a waiting game from here.

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

hey devil

That switch, when you rock it one way, does it stay in that position or does it spring back to the center when you release it.

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Ok guys, I've figured out how this is all accomplished with Ray's kit, I need to gather the parts and test it but I'm positive I can build this myself. I will attempt to do so and let everyone know. I will not produce these without the consent from Ray's family though. With the proper consent, I would be willing to produce these, not for profit, just for parts and shipping. Ray didn't make any money off these kits, so I don't feel that it would be right to try and do so. It was Ray's design and I'm sure he would be happy to see it live on.

Posted by: Ray's family

We, Ray's family, would like to thank everyone who has said such kind words about our son. We also would like to thank you for continuing his legend with the switch. His switch was not patented - but we're sure he would want someone to continue making them. He did not make any money on the switch and we hope that this will also continue. If we can find the instructions we will post on the site for all to use as we are sure that is what Ray would have wanted.

Again, thank you for your kind thoughts and wishes during this terribly difficult time. Your thoughts and prayers are very much appreciated.

Ray's family

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

It's nice to see Ray's Family on the forum, although I don't know how active of users you will be, it is nice to see you here as part of "our" family. Ray was a big part of our family here at LVC as I'm sure you have noticed over the past week. I was able to speak with Ray on a few occasions and greatly enjoyed the time I was allowed bouncing ideas off him. He was very knowledgeable about our cars and their inner-workings.

If you have the ability and decide to keep the "Barney Mobile", I hope that you will continue to use the forum as your first line of support for any questions you may have about the car. I know many of the users would love to see it at future shows, although it won't be the same without Ray behind the wheel, it will be a great reminder to all of us.

Welcome to the forum and I hope you continue to visit us in the future.

Posted by: Ray's family

The "Barney Mobile" should be represented at Carlise this coming June. A close friend has offered to do all the mechanical and body work, including paint, and have it ready for June. We will keep "Barney" in the family.

Posted by: NYC LS8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray's family

The "Barney Mobile" should be represented at Carlise this coming June. A close friend has offered to do all the mechanical and body work, including paint, and have it ready for June. We will keep "Barney" in the family.

That's awesome

Welcome aboard to the Urso family!

All the best,

Tom

Posted by: chickenviii

the 3 way switch returns to center when not being pressed, the 2 "black boxes" taped together are just relays, the clear box he called a timer relay, and after that its just wire, ive thought about pulling mine out and trying to reproduce the "rays switch" but the only prob would sourcing the timer relay but "russo" seems to have helped that prob. if i did these it would be in small batches, so if kustomizingkid would like to take on this project, then thats ok with me, i just wanna see the "rays switch" live on

Posted by: Kevin O'Connell

I'm an electronics tech by trade. I can build the switches if someone will supply on assembly for me to use to get specs from and to make measurements from and materials list together from.
Also, we should continue to engineer the set up.. i.e.- improved wire taps, fuse blocks connectors.
If we get together enough orders we can reduce the cost to make them even further.
Maybe we should see about patenting it for Ray's family- that way it'd be protected and we could set up profits to go to some kind of trust in his name.
I didn't know him, but he seemed to be willing to help anybody, so I'll try to help keep that spirit going.

Posted by: Roadboss

It will cost more to patent than it would be worth, due to legal costs.

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Chicken

They are relays, but what kind of relays, after spending numerous hours lastnight trying to figure out this design. I've come to the conclusion that these are latching relays or Ray wired them in a fashion so that they would remain in an open position.

A latching relay is essentially just a relay that when triggered will remain in that state until another trigger is sent to it, to remove it from that state.

The reason this is needed is because the kit is designed to cut power to the air ride control module and also create an open in the message center wire, so that you don't get the "air ride switch off" message. From there, the timer relay sends a negative signal to all of the solenoids, which opens them and bleeds all the air from the system.

When you press the switch the other way, then the relay is triggered back to close the circuit for power to the control module and reconnect the message center wire. This powers the system and it airs itself back up.

Honestly, it's not all that complex of a design, It just took some reading from Kale's documentation that helped me understand it.

The only problem I'm having, is finding a DPDT (double-pole double-throw) latching relay for a 12 Volt application, at a reasonable price.

A person can build a latching relay design using a 4 SPDT relays and some diodes, but that would be a lot of work and Ray figured out a way to do it without doing so. I am curious to get some info on the wiring of those relays if Devil would be willing to remove the tape and take some pictures.

This way we could get some manufacturer info off the relays and get a schematic of how the relays are wired.

Posted by: devilchild

im glad to see someone out there knows what they are doing....

all i know is that i pressed a button and the car would drop... usually would take 2 or 3 times to get the rear to drop all the way, due to lack of weight in the rear

maybe we could figure a way to get the solenoid to open for longer so that it would only take 1 press of the button

or even figure a way to utilize 2 buttons.. 1 for the front, and 1 for the rear..

and a way to only open the solenoid as the button is pressed.. so you could decide how low exactly you want the front and rear.. independantly

Posted by: MsM8tress

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray's family

RAYS FAMILY ROCKS!!!!

I think you tried to get back with me, but I couldn't' get to the phone and the number was unavail. - thanks for posting!! John (one of Rays brothers) said he would let you know that I called and we were asking for permission.

ooohhhh hey, Rays daddy got skillzzzzzzzz, he will be on here looking for info. on Barneys intricacies (who knows why Ray tricked out on him)!!!!! Where do you think Ray got it from, lol ....if I recall from my last visit....there is one beautiful hot rod (Chevy?) in Daddys garage!!!! if there is anything anyone here can do to help get Barney to Carlise this year- all ya gotta do is post!

God bless and Smooches!
MsM8 (Debi)

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

The timer relay controls the amount of time it takes for the car to lower, if 90 seconds isn't enough time, then we would either have to figure out how to extend the time or we could do a manual control.

The manual control wouldn't be too bad to wire, a switch for the fronts and a switch for the rears.

It would have to be one or the other though, have the timer relay and the manual switch would be possible but would be a lot of work.

Posted by: chickenviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96hotrodlincoln

Chicken

They are relays, but what kind of relays, after spending numerous hours lastnight trying to figure out this design. I've come to the conclusion that these are latching relays or Ray wired them in a fashion so that they would remain in an open position.

i think they are 2, 5-wire relays as used in lots of fords, and one feeds the other with all the solenoids wired in series. and wasn't kale's design a 4 switch setup?
i had mine open when i got he used all the same size wire, then he decided the wire was too small on 2 of the wires so he sent out a "recall kit" (as i called it) so mine was fully untaped

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Chicken

What I'm looking for is the stampings on the relays so that I can cross them. I think the easiest way would be for me to get my hands on a kit. Then I can physically see it for myself.

Posted by: chickenviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96hotrodlincoln

Chicken

What I'm looking for is the stampings on the relays so that I can cross them. I think the easiest way would be for me to get my hands on a kit. Then I can physically see it for myself.

well if it wasn't raining outside (at least it ain't snow, shut up pepperman) i would go out and peal the tape off of mine for ya

Posted by: pepperman

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickenviii

(at least it ain't snow, shut up pepperman)

Ah Chicken i wasn't going to mention anything about SNOW

Posted by: devilchild

yes you were !!!

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Well guys, if everything goes well, you may not have to. I've found a kit and should be getting my hands on it sometime soon. Once in my hands, it shouldn't take long to get the wiring diagram drawn up for it. I'd be willing to replicate these kits if parts are readily available. I'll see if I can match Ray's price but that will depend on the cost of the supplies. I might have a connection for getting the DEI pulse timers at cost, but I will have to check on that.

I will keep you all informed

Posted by: jamie97lsc

well after talking in the chat last night and finding out about this switch, i'm in for one if someone can produce it. maybe everyone who buys one, can toss in an extra donation towards ray's family to help with all costs and everything. a death in the family can be very expensive, maybe we could start a little donation to each switch sold, just a thought?

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamie97lsc

well after talking in the chat last night and finding out about this switch, i'm in for one if someone can produce it. maybe everyone who buys one, can toss in an extra donation towards ray's family to help with all costs and everything. a death in the family can be very expensive, maybe we could start a little donation to each switch sold, just a thought?

That thought had crossed my mind as well. We should take a poll and see what everyone else thinks, I'm sure everyone would agree that it was a good idea.

Posted by: pepperman

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96hotrodlincoln

That thought had crossed my mind as well. We should take a poll and see what everyone else thinks, I'm sure everyone would agree that it was a good idea.

Since devilchild is the one who started this thread he would have to be the one who can insert a poll into the thread. I also agree it is a good idea.

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Ok guys

I have a little update, I have talked to my supplier for the DEI Pulse timers, he's calling tomorrow for pricing but he believes the cost will be around $15 each. I told him to price them in quantities of ten. I've also found an internet supplier that would put the cost at $117.04 for ten, that includes shipping costs.

Once I get a kit and get a schematic drawn up, I'll get the rest of the pricing together. So far, it looks pretty promising for meeting Ray's cost.

I will keep you all informed.

Posted by: Ray's family

I'm writing to all who wants to keep Ray's switch moving forward. First of all, our family would like to thank everyone for the thoughtful flower arrangements at his funeral. Also thanks to those who attended, and for all of the posts on the board. Now, lets move on. I have found 10 relays, 1 DEI 528T timer, 10 wire plugs, 5 rocker switches, and I think a short schematics for making the switchs. If someone would like to give me a call at 412-571-9233, I will do what ever you guys want me do with this material. I also found a complete wiring kit made up, but it has 3 switches on it instead of 1 switch. Also, after reading some of the postings, we, Ray's family don't want you guys to collect more money and send to us. If you collect more than what Ray charged for the switches, please give to someone in the club that doesn't have enough money to make one of the clubs meets or just put in a kitty for the club. My wife and I will be okay. Again, Thanks again. Ray's dad, Ray, Sr.

Posted by: Old Poop

I work for an electronics distributor, Heilind Electronics www.heilind.com some of the companies that we are franchised for is Omron, Aromat (Panasonic), Deltrol Controls, Fujitsu, Hamlin, Tyco, and many others. If there is anything I can do to help further the cause please let me know.

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Thanks Old

I've been looking at the omron and aromat relays, once I get the kit and figure out what I need, I'll let you know.

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

Everyone, I just got off the phone with Ray Sr., we discussed the items that he had been able to gather up. He has offered to send me the items he found so that we can keep the kits moving and doing what Ray would have wanted. The kit that he mentioned above, was not for me that I'm aware of, but has agreed to send it to me. So that we can get a schematic drawn up to work from.

As always, I will keep you all posted on the progress.

Posted by: driller

It took a bit of rummaging through the pile of parts in the garage, but I have found a complete switch kit I received from Ray. I had planned to install it on the '96 but like a 1001 other things, it just never got to the top of the list.

If this would help the effort any, I'd be more than willing to donate it to the project. Just send me a PM or email.

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

driller

I appreciate it but for right now, hold on to it. If we need it, I'll let you know.

Also, I appreciate all the willingness from everyone on the forum to help in any way they can. I may call on some of you to if I have any questions but I hope everything goes smoothly and that we can get the Ray Switch back into production soon.

Thanks

Posted by: 04SSHD

This is the first I have heard about Ray passing, my deepest condolences to the family. I have talked to Ray over the phone many times and I had one of his kits installed in my Mark VIII. He was truly a good man and kind at heart. May he RIP

Posted by: PIMPLINC

A death in the Mark VIII Family is as hard as a death in my own family..
Count me in on continuing his Unique Switch moving forward...
I was in the process of buying a coil spring conversion, but I will Order a "Ray Switch" when finished, and keep the air ride in my 94 Mark VIII....Just for you Ray & Family!!!

My Deepest Prayers go out to you all

A loss of a Mark VIII is one thing, A loss of a Mark VIII owner is Absolutely Devastating

Posted by: MsM8tress

Quote:

Originally Posted by PIMPLINC

A death in the Mark VIII Family is as hard as a death in my own family.......A loss of a Mark VIII is one thing, A loss of a Mark VIII owner is Absolutely Devastating

Well put PIMPLINC, very well put. -MsM8

Posted by: Ray's family

I've just found out that Ray had taken the switch from The Barneymobile and gave to someone who needed a switch, so I will need one also.

Posted by: MsM8tress

lol, not surprised, that's Ray...

Hope all is well Daddy Ray, give all my love.

Debi

Posted by: jerryjfunk

My condolences to Ray's family...

Also, put me on this list for one once they are ready.

Posted by: 96hotrodlincoln

well guys

The list is growing slowly, I'm pretty close, just have a few more questions to answer and I will be working full-tilt on this project. Other than my test kit, I believe the first production kit will go to Ray Sr. himself. I feel it is only right, seeing how Ray gave up his kit for someone else.

Once I'm ready for production I will be posting a new thread taking orders.

Thanks to all of you that have showed interest in keeping the kits alive and those of you that have supported us.

Posted by: Doc

I have been away for awhile. I had a little something to do in Iraq.
What happened to Ray?

Posted by: pepperman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc

I have been away for awhile. I had a little something to do in Iraq.
What happened to Ray?

Doc, Ray passed away a little over a month ago.

Posted by: Doc

My sorrow runs deep and as I write this I am having trouble seeing the keyboard because of the tears in my eyes. I have one of his switches and had spoken with him many times on the phone. He was always helpful and a true gentleman.
You are missed brother.

Doc

Posted by: fordAndLincolnMan

I'm sorry for your loss.

The spirit of this thread and what you are doing is awesome.

Please put me down for one of the switches.

Posted by: warlockpain

i'm on springs,so no kit needed. however i do have an electrical/electronics background. call on me anytime for anything needed.
i didn't know ray,but would like to have known him.
my heart goes out to both his immediate and extended families.

Posted by: nsjuice

I'm a newbie to posting, ive been lurking around quite some time reading on wonderful tech posts and other entertaining posts.

This thread's always kept me at bay.

My condolences and heart goes out to the "Ray" family, we all can sympathize.

And yes, I'd like to be added to the list of Switch requests.

Thank you.

-Ness

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