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In what may be his last debate, Thompson comes alive.

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Posted by: 04SCTLS

http://www.slate.com/id/2181848/nav/tap3/

Fred's Fired Up
In what may be his last debate, Thompson comes alive.
By John Dickerson
Posted Friday, Jan. 11, 2008, at 9:01 AM ET

Fred Thompson
No one got teary-eyed at the Republican debate in South Carolina Thursday night, but Fred Thompson did try to make Mike Huckabee cry. Early in the 90-minute event, Thompson laid out a bill of complaints about Huckabee's heresies on tax cuts, immigration, and foreign policy. He went after him several more times during the night accusing Huckabee of political expediency and cluelessness about the Pakistani military. The governor didn't represent "the model of the Reagan coalition," said Thompson, but the "model of the Democratic Party." That crack may seem a little weak on the page, but given that Thompson normally proceeds like cold syrup, his consistently aggressive posture was as striking as if he'd broken out into jumping jacks.

In October, Thompson topped South Carolina polls, but now after a meandering campaign, he's a distant fourth. He has declared he's "all in" for the South Carolina primary, betting his entire candidacy on a strong finish. The showy boast from the candidate who eschews meaningless political gimmicks is similar to the ones he made in Iowa before placing a distant third in the caucus.

Thompson's old friend John McCain is battling Huckabee for first in South Carolina, which made me think maybe McCain had promised Thompson a job as attorney general in his future administration if he would repeatedly dig into Huckabee. McCain can't do the dirty work himself because Huckabee has called him a hero too many times. But then Thompson criticized McCain's position on citizenship for illegal aliens, which he probably wouldn't have done if the two had a secret deal.

Thompson's new spirit seemed to work with at least one group. Undecided voters in a focus group put together by Fox News pollster Frank Luntz overwhelmingly thought he had won the night. This is a dubious honor though. Romney handily won a similar Luntz focus group in New Hampshire after the last debate, as did Barack Obama.

Thompson was the only candidate trying to force the action in the last debate before the primary. Though the GOP race is up in the air with at least four different plausible outcomes, no other candidate felt they needed to stir themselves beyond their talking points. There were no great disagreements among the viable candidates on the benefit of tax cuts, staying vigilant against Iran, or restraining spending. The debate was also slowed down by a compulsory 15 minutes of Ronald Reagan worship, which never produces very much insight. It not only makes the candidates appear stuck in the past but highlights how little anybody wants to talk about the current two-term Republican president. Karl Rove should devote his next column to calling for an end to these obsessive Reagan devotionals.

The lack of action probably helped McCain the most. Though he saw his chances for the 2000 nomination dashed in South Carolina, he now leads some polls there. This was the last debate before next week's vote, and very little of it covered immigration, his weakest issue with the South Carolina crowd. Instead, McCain got to remind voters repeatedly that he was right about the troop surge in Iraq. The debate was held on the one-year anniversary of Bush's announcement of the troop buildup, but McCain hardly needs the prompting to remind voters that he was calling for the change in strategy long before Bush implemented it. When asked how a Republican could run in a general election when so many people in America oppose the war, McCain turned the question on its head, asking how Democrats could continue to deny the success of the troop surge. The GOP audience loved it.

Mitt Romney did nothing to scuff up McCain, which he presumably needs to do if he's going to beat him in the Michigan primary next week—something Romney must do to keep his campaign from going completely over a cliff. They did engage in a brief disagreement over the nature of job losses. McCain said he was being straight with voters when he said changing business patterns meant some jobs would not be coming back. Romney, whose success in the corporate world came in part by recognizing which jobs were obsolete and which businesses could be streamlined, nevertheless took the position that as president, he would fight the consequences of a free market and protect every job. Romney's most well-received answer of the evening came when he said that illegal immigrants should "go home and get in line with everybody else." Unfortunately for Romney, the answer was in the 85th minute of the debate, by which time I'm guessing even some of the members in the Frank Luntz focus group were asleep.

Gov. Huckabee didn't seem too undone by Thompson's attacks. He defended his record and stayed lighthearted and folksy, except when talking about sending some Iranians to the gates of hell, which made him seem like he was trying a little too hard. His truth-telling about the middle-class squeeze set him above the others by actually appealing to old-fashioned Reagan Democrats, a group the other candidates just talk about wanting to reach out to.

Huckabee returned to talking about the sanctity of life and marriage in a way that he hadn't in New Hampshire, where there are fewer social conservatives. He also deftly handled the compulsory trick religious question he tends to get. He was asked whether he endorses a religious pronouncement about wives being submissive to their husbands and whether doing so might cost him the female vote. He said Scripture requires husbands and wives to show submission to each other, an answer as politically pitch perfect as the one he gave about the literal interpretation of the Bible in a previous debate. He also took the opportunity to stoutly defend his Christianity, which drew loud applause. In a state full of evangelical voters, Huckabee's declaration of faith was probably a better rebuttal to Fred Thompson's assault than anything else he said.

Posted by: shagdrum

Of the cadidates who are electible, Thompson is my fav.

Posted by: MonsterMark

I watched it last night.

Thompson was the best on the issues and the funniest.

Ron Paul once again made one nod in agreement and then shake and scratch ones head. He's done. Bet he runs as an independent along with Bloomberg.

I would take Hillary in the Oval Office if the Republicans owned the House and the Senate.

I wouldn't take Obama for any reason. The guy is in lala land. Bringing together a divided country. What a bunch of bung.

Anyway, Thompson needs to show he has some balls and stay in the race and get as much exposure as possible and then people will gravitate to him.

I can see 4 years of Fred.
4 years of McCain would be painful but tolerable.
4 years of Romney would be a tossup which way he went.
4 years of Huckabee would be too much liberal and religion for me.
4 years of Guiliani would be good, not great. He'd do OK.

But back to Fred. Fred is what we need in a leader to maintain a tough posture in a very troubled world.

It all comes down to nukes. Who is going to best deal with rogue nations having access to nukes? Because, when the 1st one lights up the sky, America as a free nation is dead. The libs will take everything away in a hysterical reaction. Looting??? You ain't seen nothing yet. Americans will turn to animals just like in New Orleans.

Did you hear in Kalifornia they are looking at legislation to have the utilities control your thermostat in an attempt to control global warming? It will never end with them. We are being attacked from the outside and from within.

We need a leader that can deal with both threats.

Posted by: shagdrum

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

I would take Hillary in the Oval Office if the Republicans owned the House and the Senate.

I would correct that statement to say if conservatives owned the House and Senate. We don't need more run-away spending

Quote:

I can see 4 years of Fred.
4 years of McCain would be painful but tolerable.
4 years of Romney would be a tossup which way he went.
4 years of Huckabee would be too much liberal and religion for me.
4 years of Guiliani would be good, not great. He'd do OK.

Quote:

Did you hear in Kalifornia they are looking at legislation to have the utilities control your thermostat in an attempt to control global warming? It will never end with them. We are being attacked from the outside and from within.

Hadn't heard that yet. The govenator has been a disapointment as of late.

More reason for me never to move to Kalifornia

Posted by: Calabrio

Fred simply got into the debates too late. Had he joined the race earlier on, he would have participated in those early debates no one watched he'd be as practiced as the other front runners, by the time New Hampshire came about he would have been on target, as he was last night.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

I agree that any of them would be tolerable. And Huckabee and McCain are the most troublesome. Romney could either be an absolutely incredible President. With his Bain approach at solving government problems, he honestly could "change" the way government works- or more accurately doesn't work. But an adversarial congress makes any kind of progress near impossible on the domestic front. We are looking forward to some economic problems in this country, which could be intensified by a possible conflict (hot or cold) with Iran. This would also be a good situation for a Romney Presidency.

Huckabee is out of his league. How did he go from that troublesome paper on Bush's foreign policy to the Iran will see the gates of hell?

Rudy is a strong leader who will get things done, and he's not one to apologize to the press for difficult decisions. Has anyone read the tax proposal he released today? He's going to be here on Saturday, I'm not sure if I'll have opportunity to see him though. I just want him to better assure me that he's a genuine constitutional minded federalist.

-And all that environmental nonsense is another reason for me to campaign against McCain in the primary.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabrio

Fred simply got into the debates too late.

I disagree. People are just starting to tune in. The media has been pushing McCain and Huckabee because they are the 2 most liberal Republicans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabrio

Romney could either be an absolutely incredible President. With his Bain approach at solving government problems, he honestly could "change" the way government works- or more accurately doesn't work. But an adversarial congress makes any kind of progress near impossible on the domestic front. We are looking forward to some economic problems in this country, which could be intensified by a possible conflict (hot or cold) with Iran. This would also be a good situation for a Romney Presidency..

Like I said, Romney can go either way. Be a Bush in some ways or a Reagan in others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabrio

Huckabee is out of his league. How did he go from that troublesome paper on Bush's foreign policy to the Iran will see the gates of hell?.

Huckabee will say anything at this point to get elected. That is where the 'gates of hell' comment came from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabrio

Rudy is a strong leader who will get things done, and he's not one to apologize to the press for difficult decisions. Has anyone read the tax proposal he released today?.......I just want him to better assure me that he's a genuine constitutional minded federalist..

He is using Thompson's proposal. He scares me as far as SCOTUS nominees go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabrio

-And all that environmental nonsense is another reason for me to campaign against McCain in the primary.

He threatened to switch parties. He strongly considered running with Kerry. He was a member of the 'Group of Fourteen'. Immigration, yada, yada, yada.

If he is the only guy that can beat Hillary and Obama, then fine. Lesser of two evils.

Posted by: shagdrum

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

He is using Thompson's proposal. He scares me as far as SCOTUS nominees go.

SCOTUS?

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by shagdrum

SCOTUS?

Supreme Court Of The United States

Posted by: shagdrum

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Supreme Court Of The United States

Thank you.
I should've known that!

Posted by: Calabrio

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

I disagree. People are just starting to tune in. The media has been pushing McCain and Huckabee because they are the 2 most liberal Republicans.

If it were simply about exposure, we'd be in agreement. In principle, Fred's strategy of building anticipation and coming into the fray later makes sense. My issue was simply one of familiarity, experience, and comfort within the debate formats.

Those things take practice. And there's a learning curve for everyone. They all seem to do better with experience. Speaking solely on the issue of the debate, I think Thompson would have been well served to have had the advantage of under performing in the earlier debates and then performing as he did tonight just prior to Iowa, when the spot light of the public was focused on them. If his debate performances had been consistently as they were last week, it might be a very different race.

Quote:

Huckabee will say anything at this point to get elected. That is where the 'gates of hell' comment came from.

This has always been what worries me about Huckabee. It's too easy to dismiss him as a dumb Southern, or an unsophisticated Arkansan... reality is, he's as slick a politician as Bill Clinton ever was.

Quote:

He is using Thompson's proposal. He scares me as far as SCOTUS nominees go.

I'm really not that concerned about that. Even the individuals that I don't agree with still fit within the parameters of a constitutionalist and a federalist with Rudy. He's lack of national experience means he's untested though. I do wish he'd invest a little more energy demonstating his federalism.

He gave two small appearances locally on Saturday and I had invites... unfortunately I couldn't get down there... I'm certain he'll be back before the 29th.

I'm in Sarasota- famous for any number of things- including
where Bush was on 9/11. Where Bush and Gore both spent their time rehearsing for the debate. Or home of the high school Al Gore lied about saying they couldn't afford desks.....