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Illegal immigrants packing up and leaving Arizona

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Posted by: 04SCTLS

Illegal immigrants, facing new law cracking down on employers, are going home

Arizona's new employer-sanctions law takes effect January 1

Law an attempt to lessen the economic incentive for illegal immigrants

"I don't want to live here because of the new law and oppressive environment"

PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Illegal immigrants in Arizona, frustrated with a flagging economy and tough new legislation cracking down on their employers, are returning to their home countries or trying their luck in other states.

For months, immigrants have taken a wait-and-see attitude toward the state's new employer-sanctions law, which takes effect January 1. The voter-approved legislation is an attempt to lessen the economic incentive for illegal immigrants in Arizona, the busiest crossing point along the U.S.-Mexico border.

And by all appearances, it's starting to work.

"People are calling me telling me about their friend, their cousin, their neighbors -- they're moving back to Mexico," said Magdalena Schwartz, an immigrant-rights activist and pastor at a Mesa church. "They don't want to live in fear, in terror."

Martin Herrera, a 40-year-old illegal immigrant and masonry worker who lives in Camp Verde, 70 miles north of Phoenix, said he is planning to return to Mexico as soon as he ties up loose ends after living here for four years.

"I don't want to live here because of the new law and the oppressive environment," he said. "I'll be better in my country."

He called the employer-sanctions law "absurd."

"Everybody here, legally or illegally, we are part of a motor that makes this country run," Herrera said. "Once we leave, the motor is going to start to slow down."

There's no way to know how many illegal immigrants are leaving Arizona, especially now with many returning home for normal holiday visits. But economists, immigration lawyers and people who work in the immigrant community agree it's happening.

State Rep. Russell Pearce of Mesa, the author of the employer sanctions law, said his intent was to drive illegal immigrants out of Arizona.

"I'm hoping they will self-deport," Pearce said. "They broke the law. They're criminals."

Under the employer sanctions law, businesses found to have knowingly hired illegal workers will be subject to sanctions from probation to a 10-day suspension of their business licenses. A second violation would bring permanent revocation of the license.

Nancy-Jo Merritt, an immigration lawyer who primarily represents employers, said her clients already have started to fire workers who can't prove they are in the country legally.

"Workers are being fired, of course," she said. "Nobody wants to find out later on that they've got somebody working for them who's not here legally."

When immigrants don't have jobs, they don't stick around, said Dawn McLaren, a research economist at Arizona State University who specializes in illegal immigration.

She said the flagging economy, particularly in the construction industry, also is contributing to an immigrant exodus.

"As the jobs dwindle and the environment becomes more unpleasant in more ways than one, you then decide what to do, and perhaps leaving looks like a good idea," she said. "And certainly that creates a problem, because as people leave, they take the jobs they created with them."

Pearce disagreed that the Arizona economy will suffer after illegal immigrants leave, saying there will be less crime, lower taxes, less congestion, smaller classroom sizes and shorter lines in emergency rooms.

"We have a free market. It'll adjust," he said. "Americans will be much better off."

He said he's not surprised illegal immigrants are leaving the state and predicts that more will go once the employer-sanctions law takes effect next month.

"It's attrition by enforcement," he said. "As you make this an unfriendly state for lawbreakers, I'm hoping they will pick up and leave."

______________________________________________

The REAL solution to most of the illegal immigrant problem.
Since money runs the world, it's denial removes the great incentive illegals have for coming here.
I won't hire anyone who can't fill out an I-9 form and never did.
This is the way of the future regardless of who wins the federal election.
The states, frustrated with with the spineless leadership from Washington, have taken matters into their own hands, deputizing local law enforcement to help the immigration department.
The country did just fine without these people before they started coming here in droves.
We'll just have to learn to get along without their cheap labor.

Posted by: turborich

I sure hope that they don't think they're comming next door to Nevada. We have enough of a problem already. It is getting to be so bad it's just like a cockroach invasion & you know how that goes... For everyone that you see there are hundreds you don't see!

Here are a few pics to show you what the illegals do to the neighborhood. It's not a racist thing, it's a FED UP thing!!! These are real pics that I took, not from the net.

Posted by: Calabrio

Another demonstration that properly enforced laws will significantly reduce illegal rates.

Border defense.
Prosecute employers
Set up a system so that guest workers have verifiable credentials- maybe biometric data on a state authorized card.

But it is possible and aggressive enforcement must work.

Posted by: 04SCTLS

PHOENIX - Police in suburban Scottsdale have begun routinely asking for proof of citizenship from every suspect they arrest and turning those who are in this country illegally over to federal immigration officials.

The procedure was started Oct. 15, a result of the September killing of Phoenix police officer Nick Erfle by an illegal immigrant, Erik Jovani Martinez.

Scottsdale police had arrested Martinez on a misdemeanor charge 16 months earlier but they released him then because they didn't know he was an illegal immigrant who had been twice deported.

Erfle's killing "caused us to look at what were asking suspects," Scottsdale police Sgt. Mark Clark said. "If we arrest someone and then find that we called ICE (Customs and Immigration Enforcement) and they put a hold on them, then we know they have been deported and are back again."

Martinez was later killed by police after he stole a car and took a hostage, authorities said.

Now police in the affluent suburb ask every suspect about their citizenship, have ICE agents pick up those who are in this country illegally, and keep a database of possible illegal immigrants in case they turn up again.

Scottsdale Mayor Mary Manross supports the policy change and said that because every suspect is asked about citizenship, police are not engaged in racial profiling.

"I would not tolerate that," Manross said. "I think the chief has struck the right balance to do what we want to achieve."

Clark said that in the past Scottsdale officers didn't routinely call ICE about illegal immigrants because the agency was short-handed and could not always respond.

That's changed, said Eduardo Preciado, an assistant ICE field officer in Phoenix. The agency was short-staffed until about a year ago when it added agents to man phones and to assist local law enforcement agencies, he said.

"Now we respond to every call," Preciado said.

Posted by: 04SCTLS

Illegal immigrants "self deport" as woes mount

PHOENIX (Reuters) - Mexican illegal immigrant Lindi sat down with her husband Marco Antonio in the weeks before Christmas to decide when to go back to Mexico.

She has spent three years working as a hairdresser in and around Phoenix, but now she figures it is time to go back to her hometown of Aguascalientes in central Mexico.

"The situation has got so tough that there don't seem to be many options left for us," Lindi, who asked for her last name not to be used, told Reuters.

The couple are among a growing number of illegal immigrants across the United States who are starting to pack their bags and move on as a crackdown on undocumented immigrants widens and the U.S. economy slows, turning a traditional Christmas trek home into a one-way trip.

In the past year, U.S. immigration police have stepped up workplace sweeps across the country and teamed up with a growing number of local forces to train officers to enforce immigration laws.

Meanwhile, a bill seeking to offer many of the 12 million illegal immigrants a path to legal status was tossed by the U.S. Congress, spurring many state and local authorities to pass their own measures targeting illegal immigrants.

The toughening environment has been coupled with a turndown in the U.S. economy, which has tipped the balance toward self deportation for many illegal immigrants left struggling to find work.

"It is still just a thought, although we are preparing to leave," said Ernesto Garcia, a carpenter from Caborca in northwest Mexico, who stood in line at the Mexican consulate in Phoenix this week for paperwork that will allow him and his family to resume their lives south of the border.

PACKING THEIR BAGS

There is no tally of the number of illegal immigrants who have already left the United States, many of whom simply head south over the border with their belongings packed into a car during the annual Christmas exodus, or board scheduled flights for other destinations.

Mexican consular sources in Phoenix say they are seeing a spike in the number of immigrants applying for Mexican citizenship for their U.S.-born children, which will allow them to enroll in schools in Mexico.

They are also seeing a rise in requests for papers enabling families to carry household belongings back to Mexico, free of import duties.

Members of the Brazilian community in the U.S. northeast, meanwhile, say they are starting to see an increase in the number of illegal immigrants heading back to their homes in Brazil in recent months.

"They are beginning to put in the balance the constant fear of being detained and deported, and many are deciding to leave," said Fausto Mendes da Rocha, executive director of the Brazilian Immigrant Center in Boston.

Other returning immigrants cite a slowdown in the U.S. economy as a factor, and the falling value of the U.S. dollar against other currencies, which has eaten into the value of remittances sent to support families at home.

Aluisio Carvalho, 66, left a wife and four children behind in Brazil in 2001 when he set off to find work in Boston. Since then, he has managed to pay for the education of his children by working in a restaurant, but is now planning to leave himself in February

"Salaries are really low, and living costs are high. We also face too much exploitation at work here, too many demands," he said.

MOVING WITHIN THE UNITED STATES

While some illegal immigrants are simply self deporting, others are moving within the United States to avoid federal immigration raids and pro-enforcement measures passed by a patchwork of state and local authorities.

Among them are undocumented immigrants in Marshalltown, Iowa, where Mexicans and Central Americans workers at a Swift & Co meatpacking plant were arrested during coordinated immigration raids across six states a year ago that netted hundreds of employees.

Moses Garcia, a U.S. citizen who came from Mexico 18 years ago and knew many of the families affected by the 2006 raid through his church and real estate work, said most of the workers have left to other states, not back to Mexico.

"They feel like they are not welcome here," Garcia said. "They go to Minnesota, Atlanta, Nebraska, California."

In Arizona, where some specially trained sheriff's deputies already enforce immigration laws and a new state law sanctioning businesses hiring undocumented workers is due to come in to effect January 1, many illegal immigrants are eyeing a move to states they see as less hostile.

Among them is day laborer Fernando Gutierrez who trekked illegally into the desert state 18 months ago from Mexico, and is now thinking of joining a cousin working in Oregon in the Pacific northwest.

"Everyone lives in fear of the police stopping you for some minor infraction and then asking for your papers," Gutierrez said as he touted for work in the chill morning air at a Phoenix day labor site.

"I want to get as far away from here as possible."

Posted by: evillally

Bye bye!

Posted by: decibels5

I am Mexican, born in Texas. All the way up to my grandparents were born in the states. Sh1t, I dont even speak spanish/mexican. I will tell you one thing though. Nothing pisses me off more, than seeing my father in law, who has 20 plus years of framing, carpentry, and house building experience, out of a job because they can hire 20 illegals for the same price. I do respect their willingless to work, but they do not "support" our government, military, or schools. I say be off with them or make them pay. Oh yeah, they are all coming to Florida

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by decibels5

I am Mexican, born in Texas. All the way up to my grandparents were born in the states. Sh1t, I dont even speak spanish/mexican. I will tell you one thing though. Nothing pisses me off more, than seeing my father in law, who has 20 plus years of framing, carpentry, and house building experience, out of a job because they can hire 20 illegals for the same price. I do respect their willingless to work, but they do not "support" our government, military, or schools. I say be off with them or make them pay. Oh yeah, they are all coming to Florida

You're American, by my account, being born in Texas and all.

Think they'll be some warfare between the illegal Cubans, over jobs?

Posted by: decibels5

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

You're American, by my account, being born in Texas and all.

Think they'll be some warfare between the illegal Cubans, over jobs?

It is getting pretty bad here in Jacksonville. Many dont notice, but I go to alot of different warehouses throughout my day. Alot of illegals of different races. Mexicans are steady on the increase though. I often do work for a grocery warehouse here in Jacksonville. About 3 months ago, they laid off like 60 employees prior to them being audited. Talked with the maintenance sup. and he said it was because they did not have the proper paperwork.
I also used to clean windows for extra money at new construction homes and condos. During my short time doing this, the common employee was either black or white. within 6 months they were all mexican, most likely immigrants. And you know what the best part is, awhile back, I got a ticket for tvs in my car. Anyways I was like the 100th person to go in front of the judge and I swear at least 50 of them were mexicans, that couldnt speak english, had no i.d., no d.l, etc etc. what the f^ck

Posted by: turborich

See what happens when certain people who have NO respect for anyone or anything tease the tigers? I hope this is a lesson to all of them.

Posted by: buddylee

Quote:

Originally Posted by turborich

See what happens when certain people who have NO respect for anyone or anything tease the tigers? I hope this is a lesson to all of them.

WHAT ?? 2 of the guy that were Hunted by that tiger had Indian last names

I have been to that zoo many times , it's a great place to meet kids

Posted by: turborich

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddylee

WHAT ?? 2 of the guy that were Hunted by that tiger had Indian last names

I have been to that zoo many times , it's a great place to meet kids

It's a great place to meet kids????

Not the Michael Jackson way of meeting kids I hope????
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you hear that those guys were drinking Vodka & had a sling shot in their back pocket? Plus debris was found in the caged area. I don't know what those guys were, the family I saw on TV appeared to be Hispanic. I was just trying to make a point.

If you were caged up for years & some punks started to tease you & shoot you with objects from a sling shot what would you do? I would have ate those bastards too! It is really too bad that they killed the tiger. Yeah I know... It was a human life! Yes I know, A mean spirited human who teased the wrong tiger.

They should give the tigers a badge & let them patroll the border.

Don't trip, I found these pics online.

Posted by: 04SCTLS

There was a rumour they had slingshots but it hasn't been confirmed.

Posted by: turborich

It has been confirmed. I heard it on the news, not the mainstream crap on TV but on AM news radio. They were up to no good.

Posted by: bufordtpisser

Quote:

Originally Posted by decibels5

An American of Mexican descent. And I am proud to call you brother. No one asks you or any other legal immigrant to forget your heritage. We just ask that you at least try to assimilate and learn our language. How long do you think that I would get along in mexico without speaking the language?? Face it dude, you are a gringo.

Posted by: smokn87stang

Only time will tell on the effects this exodus will have on the AZ economy. Cracking down on employers rather than imigrants themselves was the way to go a long time ago. Obviously the good leaders that we elect into office are for the most part business owners. Think about it, if you were a business owner and you had to choose between two people that knew what they are doing, but one is willing to do it for half the wages, who will you rather hire?? The illigal immigrant issue has always been fueled by employers and business owners to increase their profit margins. Now see if that explenation doesn't make sense to anyone. Now that the people that were willing to do these jobs that no one wanted to do for next to nothing are fleeing, the only choice these employers will have is paying more so that people here will do these jobs. Will it hurt the economy? I really do not know. Will it impact the price for the goods we consume? I don't know either. I for one will go on a limb here and say that if we start paying $20+/hr for people to hand pick tomatoes in the fields, I'm sure employers and business owners will pass the extra cost of doing business to the consumers as it's always done. I guess we better start getting used to paying $20 for a pound of tomatoes, and $8 per bottle of ketchup. And this is just a simplistic example. How about the construction businesses. New homes going up in price in a time when foreclosures rates are getting out of hand. This will defenitely hit the small construction companies. I hope I'm wrong here, but like I said in the beginning...only time will tell.

Posted by: pepperman

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokn87stang

Only time will tell on the effects this exodus will have on the AZ economy. Cracking down on employers rather than imigrants themselves was the way to go a long time ago. Obviously the good leaders that we elect into office are for the most part business owners. Think about it, if you were a business owner and you had to choose between two people that knew what they are doing, but one is willing to do it for half the wages, who will you rather hire?? The illigal immigrant issue has always been fueled by employers and business owners to increase their profit margins. Now see if that explenation doesn't make sense to anyone. Now that the people that were willing to do these jobs that no one wanted to do for next to nothing are fleeing, the only choice these employers will have is paying more so that people here will do these jobs. Will it hurt the economy? I really do not know. Will it impact the price for the goods we consume? I don't know either. I for one will go on a limb here and say that if we start paying $20+/hr for people to hand pick tomatoes in the fields, I'm sure employers and business owners will pass the extra cost of doing business to the consumers as it's always done. I guess we better start getting used to paying $20 for a pound of tomatoes, and $8 per bottle of ketchup. And this is just a simplistic example. How about the construction businesses. New homes going up in price in a time when foreclosures rates are getting out of hand. This will defenitely hit the small construction companies. I hope I'm wrong here, but like I said in the beginning...only time will tell.

I really don't think that prices will get that bad.

Posted by: buddylee

Quote:

Originally Posted by turborich

It's a great place to meet kids????

the Zoo kids that was a joke I have 2 kids of my own I don't like them .

The guys that got hunted down by the tiger , No question were a-holes ,
but a-hoes are every ware ........ just cuze someone is an a-hole doesn't mean they deserve to die or mauled , if that was true this place would be empty

Definition of Zoo:
Zoo means any park, building, cage, enclosure, or other structure or premise in which a live animal or animals are kept for public exhibition or viewing

Posted by: turborich

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddylee

Yeah I guess your right. The tiger did go overboard. Should have just swated at them a few times & jumped back into it's cage.

You are right about the world being empty. It is full of jerks. The whole situation is sad all the way around. The tiger was only doing what it's instints told it to do, & yes the kids were jerks & should have been scared

less but didn't need to die.

There was a rumor that at least one of them was an illegal alien. I'm not sure if that was the case. That is what got me all fired up in the first place.