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Cold Starting Issue... Has anyone experienced?

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Posted by: LincolnLSE

My 2002 LSE 3.9 V8 (78k mi) recently began giving me difficulty during starting after sitting overnight, all day, etc. I live in Minneapolis and temperatures have been below freezing consistently since about 3 weeks ago, approximately the time that I first noticed the issue.

Occassionally (maybe 40% of the time) I will turn the key and the starter turns strongly like normal - plenty of cranking Amps - but the engine will not turn over, no matter how long I hold the starter on. If I immediately try to start it again, it will still not start. But if I wait about 30 seconds, 90% of the time it will fire right up on the second try. I have tried pumping the gas pedal during starting but it doesn't seem to make a difference at all. Once the engine has warmed up, I can turn the car on and off with no issues.

I have owned and driven the car through 2 Minnesota winters and have always prided my LS on how well it starts in even sub-zero temperatures. Both the battery and the starter do not seem to have any problems so I am posting to see if anyone has lived through the same or a similar issue. Any insight is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Posted by: 97stscaddy

Quote:

I have tried pumping the gas pedal during starting but it doesn't seem to make a difference at all.

On fuel injected engines, pumping the gas pedal does no good at all. On some cars though if you hold the pedal on the floor it will disengage the fuel injectors so you can clear the cylinders if its flooded with fuel.

With that many miles id say its about time for some spark plugs if they've never been changed, and a fuel filter.

Posted by: 2000 LS

I know this is bringing back and old thread but I have the same problem and was wondering if anyone has figured anything out about this? I bought the car (2000 LS V-8) just over 2 weeks ago and just about everyday I have had the same issue, starting in the morning or after it sits for more then a few hours it seems to not want to start right away. When the engine is warm it will start without a problem but after it cools down is when the problems start. I am not sure if this is possible or not but I have noticed that one morning I went out and the sun was beating right down on the hood and it started right up, is it possible there is a sensor the reads the engine temperature and tells the computer to adjust fuel setting or something like that, even when it's off? The first time this really popped up was about 3 days after I bought the car and I was trying to start it for maybe 5-10 mins, finally pulled the intake tube off the throttle body and sprayed starting fluid and it started right up and ran fine.

Friday after work I go out and try to start and finally after about 20 mins it starts, didn't smell any extra gas after it stared so I don't think it was getting extra fuel while trying to start. I have tried the turn the key on for a few seconds before trying to start, didn't work. I have tried to pull the key out for a few seconds and retry and still didnt' work. Now I have at the dealer and they are saying they can't duplicate the problem after it sits overnight. Does anyone have any ideas what I can tell them to check in order to try to get this fixed or have had this problem and know what it is? Thanks in advance for any help also and sorry for the long story.

Posted by: 2000 LS

I picked the car up from the dealer and they said they couldn't duplicate the problem, so until they can get it to happen to them they don't know what to do. I left it there for almost a week and all they did was change the inertia switch. When I picked up the car I bought a new fuel pump relay thinking that might be the problem, get in the car and it starts right up. There was no problem at all Saturday or Sunday, even in the morning but today when I go out to leave for work this morning it is the same thing. I tried to start it and right away I went back and changed the relay thinking that may be it, nope it still wouldn't start. After about 10 mins I finally got it started and it smelled kinda rich. Does anyone have any ideas about this, I have had the car less then a month and it's already been in the dealers now 3 times for the same thing and they can't figure it out.

Posted by: LincolnLSE

I brought the car to the stealership after my issue last winter (original post in this thread) - they had it for a week and left the car outside at night so they witnessed the problem first hand each morning. The dealer could not diagnose the exact cause of the problem and wound up charging me $300 in diagnostic fees but fixed nothing (which I negotiated down to $100 because of the amount of time they had my LS).

After this very, very frusterating experience (I cannot own a car that will not start in the normal weather conditions of MN) I sort of figured out a temporary fix. If I leave the key in the "run" position for about 30 seconds to 1 minute before cranking the engine, the car will usually start on the first try. I have a feeling that this has something to do with the fuel pump turning on while the ignition is in the "run" position and that this extra fuel pressure is somehow assisting with getting the car started.

Again, my issue is only with cold starts (20 degrees F. or below). The car starts perfectly at temps above 20 degrees. Good luck with your issue. If you (or a mechanic) figures out the problem, please post the diagnosis. I am seriously considering selling the LS before winter only because of this problem.

Posted by: 2000 LS

Well we don't get anywhere near the cold temperature you get up there, I have tried to turn the key to the run position for a few seconds and still get the same result. I haven't tried to let it sit for that long though and I don't think I should have to to start a car

If they happen to figure this out, believe me I will post the results here. I am sure we aren't the only ones with this problem, there was someone else at the dealership this morning before me that had the same problem from what I understand. I am thinking that maybe there is a check valve in the fuel line somewhere that is not holding fuel in the line and basically starving the engine for fuel in the beginning or maybe the fuel pump is not being triggered to kick on when the key is turned for some reason. We will see what happens I guess, hopefully they can get this taken care of this time.

Posted by: clubairth

Cycle the key on and off several times BEFORE trying to crank the engine. This will build up fuel pressure. If the car starts better then you should first change your fuel filter and then if no improvement change the fuel pump. Now the LS has two fuel pumps. One is called a jet or transfer pump. This keeps the fuel level even between both side of the fuel tank. If this is bad the car will drive and start fine but will have problems somewhere around when the gas tank goes down to half full. The main fuel pump is the one you want to change. It's not too hard as Lincoln put access doors to both pumps under the rear seat. This makes it MUCH easier to service the pumps compared to a great many cars.

You fuel filter for ALL 2000-2006 Lincoln LS's is under the drivers side wheel well cover. Only remove the back half of this cover. You need a fuel line disconnect tool which is available at any parts store.
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Posted by: clubairth

Sorry I forgot to say the filter in in the FRONT wheel well!!
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Posted by: SoonerLS

If it smells rich when it starts, my first guess would be leaking injectors. The next time it happens, hold the gas pedal to the floor when you try to start it. If it starts right up with the gas to the floor, that tells you the engine was flooded, which is a pretty good indicator that you have leaking injectors. Holding the loud pedal to the floor puts the PCM in what was called "roll start mode" in the EEC-IV world; basically, it tells the PCM to cut the fuel flow so you don't dump raw gas into the cats while trying to roll start a car with a manual tranny--coincidentally, this is also a useful strategy for starting a flooded engine.

Posted by: E148350

Had the exact same problem. The dealer said it was leaky injectors. Replaced all 8.

Posted by: 2000 LS

Just curious but should there be any play in the ignition, I put the key in and notice that the whole lock actually has a little bit of movement, could that maybe be something to look at? Maybe there are connections behind that that are losing contact or something and causing the car to either not start the fuel pump or making it think its being stolen and enabling the theft system? Again, I am only guessing at some of the possibilties, I have searched around and read about a few of these problems. Just trying to get a better idea where to look to help them out and get this fixed.

Posted by: E148350

There is a Technical Service Bulliten on your problem as well. It involves the dealer installing a jumper which ran me about $150 for that, but it still ended up being injectors. Take it to the dealer.

Posted by: 2000 LS

That's where it's been since Monday morning, I spoke with them yesterday and they said so far they have installed a new "wire loom" I think she meant harness though, better not be just a loom for almost a week and expect that to fix the problem. I am going to be giving them a call in about 20 mins to see what they have to say about it, but everytime I have taken it in I have been taking it to the same dealer that I bought it from, its still under the 30 day/1000 mile warranty.

Posted by: 2000 LS

Ok, I picked the car up Wednesday morning before going to work and it started up no problem. Go to leave work and guess what, took about 5 mins. to start, I called the dealership to let them know it's still doing the same thing and he said to bring it in Monday, holiday weekend and all. Saturday morning I go out and it wont start at all, after 20 mins I gave up. I tried it again this morning and still won't start and ended up killing the battery. I tried to jump it and that didn't help either, then I tried spraying starting fluid and it still won't start. Does anyone have any ideas what is going on with this, I am getting sick of going back to the same dealer that can't find the problem. Anyone have any experience with the lemon law?

Posted by: 2000LSMichael

Take a look at the black relay box under the hood, which is on the passenger side. I changed all of them, but I believe #4 was one of the main culprits of my starting issues.

My car sometimes still smells of gas when starting - be careful of the new injectors as a solution. This didn't solve my starting problem months ago.

My '00 LS V-8 had new:
injectors
cam sensor
crank sensor
relays
jumper wiring harness
coils
spark plugs
MAF sensor
along with several other parts.

My dealership couldn't fix the starting issue 100% and there are still a few issues with my LS starting and also the smell of gas.

Posted by: rickztahone

+1 on what 2000LSMichael said. try changing a relay. i had the exact same problem. at first it didn't take too long for the car to start (2-5 minutes), then it started taking longer, sometimes it wouldn't start after like 30 minutes. nobody knew what it was and i took it to a small shop mechanic and he changed the relay and it fixed the problem. 100 bucks installed. worth it to me as i dealt with this problem for quite a while and nobody knew what it was

Posted by: 2000 LS

Problem solved finally, after weeks of going back and forth they finally found out what it was, a corroded wire in the fuse box in the truck. There was a leak on one of the seals that was leaking water into the spare tire compartment and apparently caused one of the wires to corrode. They found the wire, fixed the leak and I haven't had any problems now for more then 3 weeks. In all this I got a brand new battery, fuel pump, fuel pump relay, new wire harness in the dash and to drive a brand new MKX for 2 weeks

Just thought I would let everyone know where to start looking if they have this problem. Thanks everyone for all the advice also.

Posted by: rickztahone

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000 LS

Problem solved finally, after weeks of going back and forth they finally found out what it was, a corroded wire in the fuse box in the truck. There was a leak on one of the seals that was leaking water into the spare tire compartment and apparently caused one of the wires to corrode. They found the wire, fixed the leak and I haven't had any problems now for more then 3 weeks. In all this I got a brand new battery, fuel pump, fuel pump relay, new wire harness in the dash and to drive a brand new MKX for 2 weeks

Just thought I would let everyone know where to start looking if they have this problem. Thanks everyone for all the advice also.

great to hear that you fixed the problem. i'm glad you were under warranty or else this would've been an extremely expensive fix. have fun driving your LS

Posted by: 2000 LS

You and me both, im just glad its all over with. In the beginning I was getting pissed at them for not being able to find the problem but its electrical so I can kinda understand. I have been driving it all over the place and this really is a nice car with the exception of the cup holders, other then that I really like the car. Thanks again everyone for the ideas