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Land Speed LS

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Posted by: cammerfe

Hello to everybody. Although I am quite new to this forum, (I didn't know it existed until Ken at LSK mentioned it to me), I do have some degree of experience. I work out of Ben's Place-(bensplace.us) and have helped with some of his more exotic projects.

I am the present holder of two Maxton Land Speed records with my '02 LS with a best of 140.106 in E/FCC. Since the car had 109 K miles on it when I set both records in September, I am going to do a thorough go-through this winter in preparation for next spring. I am, at present, doing a complete tear-down of the four litre Jag engine that will replace the 3.9. I will be using custom forged pistons and aluminum rods to take the place of cast pistons and powdered-metal rods. Exact dimensions remain to be worked out---I don't know at this point how much I'll have to open up the cylinders to remove wear, and I want to move the ring pack down on the pistons due to the extra loading of both turbo boost and 'spray'. The rods will then be sized to fit the open space.

I intend to keep the car, as now, as my daily driver. The roll cage was designed with this in mind and I'll be keeping the concept firmly in front of me as I remove the engine computer and replace it with one that will tell both engine and trans exactly what to do. Then, with the help of some of the very talented people to be found in the Detroit area, I'll go back and try to integrate everything else. Some things may have to be done away with or seriously modified. It should be fun.

I'll be happy to make entries here from time to time to keep anyone interested abreast of what's happening. If you have questions, you can either reach me here or through the email address---ben@bensplace.us. I'll post pictures as soon as I figure out how to do it here.

KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: NYC LS8

Sounds like fun, man.

You can sign up at photobucket.com and host pictures from there if you want. Would love to see pics of the car as it sits now and during the build up.

Best of luck!


Posted by: cammerfe

It's 11 PM and Ben and Tom and I just got done tearing down the '99 4 Litre core engine that will be the basis of my project. There was a little water in some of the cylinders but no rust damage.

I did find two spun rod inserts. The crankshaft will require close attention, but since I will be using two inch big-end aluminium rods, the crank will require turning to the new size anyway. There is just enough wear in the cylinders to be feel-able, so I may not need any more than a light honing, depending on the clearance recommendations of the forged piston manufacturer.

I am considering titanium valves so a change of seat material may be necessary. I'll probably also five-angle Serdi the seats and do a basic blend job.

The cams will need to be reground to best work with the turbos.

Over the next few days, I'll be working with various sponsors to get a more comprehensive list of modifications.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

I noticed somewhere on this forum the statement that there was no chance of using a Jag engine in place of the 3.9. Years ago, I knew a guy who had a '29 Ford Sedan with an Allison engine from a P-51 Mustang fighter in it. In point of fact, anything will go in anything (unless the engine is actually larger than the car) so there will be no giant problem with the four litre in place of the 3.9. I'll attack the electronics issue 'backwards'. Most likely, I'll use an aftermarket ECU to power the engine and concentrate on function in that mode first. Next, I'll get help (nice to live in Detroit) to interconnect as necessary to get the other car systems on line.

As another aside, the bottom end of the Jag has all the necessary features to make it as strong as anything available anywhere. The main bearings are in a full length girdle that ties everything together. Then there is a cast sump that holds a windage tray in place to finish off the system. A sheet metal 'pan' on the front of this sump gives a degree of access to the underside. I didn't think to count but there are four main bolts at each of the five main bearings and five (I think) down each side for additional support. In addition, there about a dozen or so to fasten the aluminium sump to the main girdle. Since I'll be both using a high (relatively) boost dual turbo set-up and a NX Pro spray system, I'll install steel straps on the mains and use studs where there were bolts. More soon!
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: KD00LS

Sounds like you have a heck of a project on your hands. I can't wait to see the progress and pictures. Good luck.


Posted by: cammerfe

Tuesday night
Thanx for your good wishes. I have an appointment to sit down with my trans guy tomorrow. I'd prefer to keep the electronic controls of the 5R55N trans that came in the car. If I can be comfortable that the original will take the load from the engine, well enough. Otherwise, I'll go with a C-4 and Gear-Vendors OD system. That'll give me 1K HP or more of capacity. And I'll use a 9-inch center section and shafts if necessary.

Someone commented that there was a degree of doubt of the engine making my goal HP-wise. Obviously, the reality remains at the dyno point. However, the math is simple. I am using a four litre Jag engine. With the selection of factory and aftermarket items available, would anyone disagree with a figure of 300 RWHP?

Next, let's take a quick look at supercharging. As a broad rule of thumb, double atmospheric pressure--and add commensurate fuel---and make double the HP. (We all know we're really talking about torque here. HP is a calculated figure; it's really torque that's being measured.) Therefore, an additional 14.7 pounds of 'boost' should make our dynamometer console read '600 HP'. This will be without the planned addition of some small degree of methanol so as to be able to use regular pump gas. (When not in boost, regular driving often takes no more than 60-or-so octane to go down the street.) The addition of methanol---with its 120+ octane---will have some HP-adding benefit due to the extra O2 and the cooling effect, and make a mechanical intercooler un-necessary. So let's say that the whole enchilada goes just to 600 HP---even if I have to go to more than 15 pounds of boost. The dual turbo system is sized to make as much as 30 pounds so I have lots to play with.

Now add in the NX PRO nitrous oxide system---also using more methanol instead of any gasoline. My present system has a 300 HP capacity---with gasoline as the fuel. NX tells me that their nominal 150 set-up, with gasoline, actually makes about 165-170 at the rear wheels. My own experience says that a designated 100 HP---with NH3OH as fuel---increased my one mile speed by about 12 MPH. And every time I increased the methanol pill size, without any more N20, I went faster. I ran out of reasonably-sized pills and still re-set the record three times. Since I'll be using a 200 HP set of 'pills', and using the CH3OH to replace gasoline, we've arrived at the magic 800 HP. In England, a five litre version of our engine---used for a European racing venue---makes 550 HP with no power adders. I'll be using a symbiosis of boost, methanol and nitrous oxide. I'll have to limit boost and 'spray' amounts to stay below 800 HP. Your comments are solicited.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: ILLS

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
Tuesday night
Thanx for your good wishes. I have an appointment to sit down with my trans guy tomorrow. I'd prefer to keep the electronic controls of the 5R55N trans that came in the car. If I can be comfortable that the original will take the load from the engine, well enough. Otherwise, I'll go with a C-4 and Gear-Vendors OD system. That'll give me 1K HP or more of capacity. And I'll use a 9-inch center section and shafts if necessary.

Someone commented that there was a degree of doubt of the engine making my goal HP-wise. Obviously, the reality remains at the dyno point. However, the math is simple. I am using a four litre Jag engine. With the selection of factory and aftermarket items available, would anyone disagree with a figure of 300 RWHP?

Next, let's take a quick look at supercharging. As a broad rule of thumb, double atmospheric pressure--and add commensurate fuel---and make double the HP. (We all know we're really talking about torque here. HP is a calculated figure; it's really torque that's being measured.) Therefore, an additional 14.7 pounds of 'boost' should make our dynamometer console read '600 HP'. This will be without the planned addition of some small degree of methanol so as to be able to use regular pump gas. (When not in boost, regular driving often takes no more than 60-or-so octane to go down the street.) The addition of methanol---with its 120+ octane---will have some HP-adding benefit due to the extra O2 and the cooling effect, and make a mechanical intercooler un-necessary. So let's say that the whole enchilada goes just to 600 HP---even if I have to go to more than 15 pounds of boost. The dual turbo system is sized to make as much as 30 pounds so I have lots to play with.

Now add in the NX PRO nitrous oxide system---also using more methanol instead of any gasoline. My present system has a 300 HP capacity---with gasoline as the fuel. NX tells me that their nominal 150 set-up, with gasoline, actually makes about 165-170 at the rear wheels. My own experience says that a designated 100 HP---with NH3OH as fuel---increased my one mile speed by about 12 MPH. And every time I increased the methanol pill size, without any more N20, I went faster. I ran out of reasonably-sized pills and still re-set the record three times. Since I'll be using a 200 HP set of 'pills', and using the CH3OH to replace gasoline, we've arrived at the magic 800 HP. In England, a five litre version of our engine---used for a European racing venue---makes 550 HP with no power adders. I'll be using a symbiosis of boost, methanol and nitrous oxide. I'll have to limit boost and 'spray' amounts to stay below 800 HP. Your comments are solicited.
KenS from Ben's Place


The 5R55N, 5R55S, & 5R55W transmissions have lived to 700+ rwhp in built form through stock Ford computer re-tuning. Level Ten offers a good build. Art Carr does too, but they are under new ownership and having QC issues. If you control that transmission with a standalone controller like the PCS then you will likely be able to hit 900-1000 hp before the trans dies. The PCS allows so much more adjustability than the Ford tuning which keeps these trans together. With these electronic transmissions the tunes are every bit as important as the hard parts to prevent breakage.

I am curious to see who it was that made the comment about a Jag engine not making 600hp on boost. You throw enough boost to any engine and you will make 600 hp. As long as the engine is built to take it then everything should be fine. There are some people on this board that do not quite understand automotive performance. I noticed that it almost seems some of them look at modding a vehicle from a performance standpoint as some sort of voodoo magic. Obviously that is not the case, and all performance mods are based upon solid physics.

It does seem to be an ambitious build which is why allot of people are doubtful. Trust me I have been there many times with the various custom builds I have done. On the various vehicle forums I frequent I see no less than 10 people a week say they are going to do this custom turbo or that custom blower, or make that race car and never follow through with it. Allot of talkers, few do'ers. You may (or may not) be the biggest do'er the world has ever seen but people here still do not know you enough to determine that yet; which is why everyone defaults to doubt initially. What I am trying to say is do not take anyones doubtful comments here personally. Call it forum profiling...


Posted by: cammerfe

Again, thanks for your kind words. I believe you have hit the nail squarely with your comments about doubters. In fact, being new here, I'd have been little more than a lurker if it were not that my record speaks for itself. Go to the ECTA website and look at the E/FSS and E/FCC records. They are held by the Ben's Place Racing Team. I am the owner and driver for that entry.
We finished 17th out of over 100 entries in season points and didn't even go to all the meets.

In the Photoshop section of this forum, I've asked for detailed directions on posting pictures here. If someone reading THIS will read THAT and help as I've asked, I'll be happy to post some pictures.
KenS from Ben's Place.


Posted by: cammerfe

Dual post! Sorry !!


Posted by: cammerfe

I've spent several hours trying to re-size photos so that this forum (box below) will accept. So far no luck. I have no difficulty emailing photos, so if anyone is willing to post for me, I'd very much appreciate it. And, of course, if anyone has the key to re-sizing, I'll happily accept that too.
KenS from Ben's place email---ben@bensplace.us


Posted by: daves2000ls

Got them resized earlier today, just got around to posting.

Enjoy!

Looks awesome, can't wait to see a video!

1) Controls
2) Engine Compartment
3) Looking Across The Pits At Maxton
4) Maxton Timing Tower
5) Methanol Delivery System
6) More Helpers
7) No Substitute for Safety
8) NX Hardware
9) Pit Setup---104 In the Shade...and NO SHADE!
10) Ready to Get Started
11) Roll Cage for a Daily Driver
12) Some of Those That Helped


Posted by: 98LSC32V

Very cool build, should have done it with a Mark VIII though but im biased haha...


Posted by: NYC LS8

Nice, dude. What wheels are those? Me likey.


Posted by: cammerfe

My thanks to Dave for his help in posting the above pictures. The tech folks at AT&T tell me there is some sort of glitch between my primary email system and my Photoshop software that seems to be causing the problem. In addition, this is a glorified typewriter as far as I'm concerned.

The work shown by ILLS in his thread is such an awesome guide to what I'm aiming for that I've probably gone over it at least a dozen times. However, I'll be using two smaller turbos and keeping the spray system. Since I have over 109K miles on my '02 LS Sport, I've chosen to start this winter's project by re-doing a 4 litre Jag engine as a foundation. In so far as I can now tell, it's almost a twin brother to the 3.9. As I discover the inevitable small differences, I'll pass on the info---either here or in the pages of one of the Primedia Publications. (I've been doing tech projects for performance magazines since the '70s; at that time the ONLY Ford-focussed Mag was Super Ford and I was a columnist there.)

Any and all comments and questions gratefully accepted !
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: daves2000ls

No problem Ken, I was anxious to see them.


Posted by: NYC LS8

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
Any and all comments and questions gratefully accepted !
KenS from Ben's Place
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC LS8 View Post
Nice, dude. What wheels are those? Me likey.




Posted by: Brock

"In so far as I can now tell, it's almost a twin brother to the 3.9."

I read on a Jag forum, I believe, that the "3.9 is the all aluminum version of the 4.0"


Posted by: cammerfe

I would read that statement to suggest that there's more aluminium in a 3.9 than a 4 litre. The only things that aren't aluminium in the 4 litre Jag engine are the rods, crank, cams and associated hardware, and the bolts. The inlet manifold is a composite, as is the one on the 3.9. Since my 3.9 is still powering the car, I can't speak for the internals to be found there, but it would be un-challengeable to call a 4 liter Jag an 'all-aluminum' engine. The stripped block for the Jag is still mounted to an engine stand, but I have no doubt of my ability to support it in one hand. (Not hold OUT, but hold DOWN. After all, I'm a 66-year-old 'retiree'. At least as retired as I'm likely to ever get.) Please take this reply as a challenge to the original statement-maker and not to you personally.
BenS from Ben's Place.


Posted by: Brock

I don't believe you mentioned why you were using the 4.0 instead of the 3.9 for your project. Actually, I like to call motors by C.I. I feel better saying 242 C.I. versus 3.9 L!


Posted by: 00_slow_5spd_ls

00===========d


Posted by: cammerfe

Mostly because a '99 4 litre was readily available to me at the right price. I don't believe there is any significant difference beyond several cubic inches. (The VVT on the Jag may be more sophisticated, although I don't know this for a fact.) But I work with what's in front of me, unless it's significantly inferior. The '02 Lincoln doesn't have VVT at all.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

Sorry! The car wasn't home---my daughter had it---and I couldn't remember the rim brand name. They're Verde and are in Michelin Pilot P-2 245/45 ZR-18s.


Posted by: NYC LS8

Nice. I really like those. Not like I have the cash for a set, but still....


Posted by: cammerfe

I just had it pointed out to me that I mis-spoke in a post above. The Ben's Place Racing Team entry finished 19th in points out of 124 different entries during the just-past racing season. There are five weekends of racing; we went to four.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

For those who might be interested---
I arranged, this morning, through a 'verbal handshake', to write a short item for a Primedia publication regarding our record runs at Maxton. I'll be sending in the story and photos within the next week or so and it usually takes at least six weeks before it would appear in publication. Depending on where the editor is in his work, it may well take longer than that. The photos will be other than those I've shown here and the copy will give a narrative of the past season. Future stuff will focus on the new engine and trans build and next season's activities
KenS


Posted by: Garbone

I believe I have read that Ford, in a rare moment of lucidity, re-designed the 4.0 Jag engine, to sport iron sleeves in the cylinder bores, instead of the "coated" aluminum...Wouldnt this be a better plan, for a performance engine?


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbone View Post
I believe I have read that Ford, in a rare moment of lucidity, re-designed the 4.0 Jag engine, to sport iron sleeves in the cylinder bores, instead of the "coated" aluminum...Wouldnt this be a better plan, for a performance engine?
The 'Nikasil' process cylinders were only used for a short while at the very beginning of the four litre existence. Mine has iron sleeves and will probably need only a light honing before fitting the pistons.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: NYC LS8

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
For those who might be interested---
I arranged, this morning, through a 'verbal handshake', to write a short item for a Primedia publication regarding our record runs at Maxton. I'll be sending in the story and photos within the next week or so and it usually takes at least six weeks before it would appear in publication. Depending on where the editor is in his work, it may well take longer than that. The photos will be other than those I've shown here and the copy will give a narrative of the past season. Future stuff will focus on the new engine and trans build and next season's activities
KenS
I would be interested. Please post the info up here when it hits the presses


Posted by: cammerfe

I got an email asking about the difference between Land Speed Racing at Bonneville and at Maxton. Just as a thumbnail, the difference is between running one mile and running at least three. Bonneville, for my car, would necessitate a gear change because, although I've not reached top speed in one mile, I'd surely be 'wound-out' before I went three miles. The 'long course' at B'ville is five miles.

On the other hand, we DO have reciprocity of licenses. And because Maxton is the only place that has my classes and a one mile distance, the Ben's Place Racing Team entries stand as NATIONAL records. Ultimately, Texas will surely get their activities to the point that they'll be included, but at this point they're still too new to have a full program. And both El Mirage and Muroc in California run 1.3 miles.

KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

I had an extensive discussion with my rod manufacturer this afternoon. He's suggested that it may be necessary to turn the rod throws on the crank to 1.89 Honda size in order to have room in the crank case for the rod big ends. I'll be sending him a rod to work from. More soon!
KS


Posted by: ILLS

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
I had an extensive discussion with my rod manufacturer this afternoon. He's suggested that it may be necessary to turn the rod throws on the crank to 1.89 Honda size in order to have room in the crank case for the rod big ends. I'll be sending him a rod to work from. More soon!
KS
Still doing the Jag 4.0 engine? Just curious, but if you are swapping out all these internals, why not just stay simple and go with the LS 3.9 and custom parts. It would seem like less work and similar results.

Edit: Nevermind, I just reread post #23.


Posted by: cammerfe

It's my goal to get an engine and trans setting, ready to go, and then in a matter of just two-three days, put it in and have it running. If I were to pull the original engine out, it would surely take several weeks to machine and assemble---and then dyno---the original package. It IS my daily driver.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: ILLS

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
It's my goal to get an engine and trans setting, ready to go, and then in a matter of just two-three days, put it in and have it running. If I were to pull the original engine out, it would surely take several weeks to machine and assemble---and then dyno---the original package. It IS my daily driver.
KenS from Ben's Place

You plan to build the 4.0 and then swap it in and get it running in N/A form before TT'ing it later on? I would assume so based upon your aforementioned 2-3 day timeframe.


Posted by: cammerfe

No question of that. Getting the engine in and running properly is enough of a job in itself, without getting involved with the turbo package. Tom Caimotto, my Crew Chief, is in favor of running at Maxton at least once with the new engine and 200-300 HP of methanol/nitrous oxide. That should set my E/FCC record high enough to have it stay 'tops' for years. Then we'll hang the turbos and move to E/BFCC. If there's time to get the whole job accomplished before the first meet, we'll remove the turbos to make the 'fuel only' runs.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

I've noticed in other places on the forum a continuing concern regarding the exposure of the intake/filter under the car. My own approach is simple---extend the air intake up into the trunk, and create a plenum in the space directly behind the wheel house. That area will be covered with a Dzus-fastened panel, for ease of access and the air intake will be accomodated by a NACA duct through the quarter panel. I'll post photos as this develops over the winter.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: ILLS

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
I've noticed in other places on the forum a continuing concern regarding the exposure of the intake/filter under the car. My own approach is simple---extend the air intake up into the trunk, and create a plenum in the space directly behind the wheel house. That area will be covered with a Dzus-fastened panel, for ease of access and the air intake will be accomodated by a NACA duct through the quarter panel. I'll post photos as this develops over the winter.
KenS from Ben's Place



Ken. That is an approach that other people into the full racing scene have done to keep things unexposed. Honestly, even when located under the car the filters will be just fine for 99% of most peoples use.


Posted by: cammerfe

I have no doubt that you're correct. And I probably wouldn't do it myself except that I really do drive the car year 'round and the weather here in the Metro Detroit area is surely about the same as it is where you are. In addition, to tell the truth, although I only run the sponsor panels on the doors during the race trips, I get a kick out of the classic double-takes I can see from the corner of my eye when stopped at a light. Little 'hints' such as hood pins and NACA ducts should only increase the reactions. And the studied subsequent 'looking-the-other-way' from the ricer kids with their six inch exhaust outlet only makes it better.

On another note, my friend Ben suggested that I tell you that I only turn on the spray after going into third gear at Maxton. And since I'm already doing over 100 MPH by that time, I purposely don't purge the 'spray' line so as to get a softer 'hit'. That technique, along with the unbelievable bite of the 245/45 ZR18 Michelin P-2s, means that I have no traction problems with an over 100 HP spray package. We'll see what happens next season---I'm going to use a 200 HP shot and start it at 3K in first.

KenS from Ben's Place.


Posted by: ILLS

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
I have no doubt that you're correct. And I probably wouldn't do it myself except that I really do drive the car year 'round and the weather here in the Metro Detroit area is surely about the same as it is where you are. In addition, to tell the truth, although I only run the sponsor panels on the doors during the race trips, I get a kick out of the classic double-takes I can see from the corner of my eye when stopped at a light. Little 'hints' such as hood pins and NACA ducts should only increase the reactions. And the studied subsequent 'looking-the-other-way' from the ricer kids with their six inch exhaust outlet only makes it better.

On another note, my friend Ben suggested that I tell you that I only turn on the spray after going into third gear at Maxton. And since I'm already doing over 100 MPH by that time, I purposely don't purge the 'spray' line so as to get a softer 'hit'. That technique, along with the unbelievable bite of the 245/45 ZR18 Michelin P-2s, means that I have no traction problems with an over 100 HP spray package. We'll see what happens next season---I'm going to use a 200 HP shot and start it at 3K in first.

KenS from Ben's Place.


Damn, that will be a world of difference for you when you spray in the earlier gears. I hear you on the no purge for a softer hit.

What kind of control are you running? The reason I bring this up is because there are some really nice progressive controllers on the market today for pretty cheap. FJO Racing makes one that goes for $206. I used an FJO controller for over a year with the 100wetshot in the LS and I must say that it is by far the best piece of electronic racing equipment I have picked up for the price. It can control two totally separate stages either by rpm or time. Has full 0-100% shot ramping for both stages and also has a first gear lockout mode that would be nice if you wanted to do that. Go HERE if you want more info.

Even with those good tires expect to have some traction issues when spraying that 100 wetshot in first gear if you still have the open rear diff. Even when I started at 25% of the shot at 3,000rpms I was still ripping the tires off while going down the track. Obviously I had different tires for my runs, but I still belieive you will run into traction issues if you have an open rear diff and spraying the full 100shot right off 3k. Wet hits HARD!


Posted by: cammerfe

I'm sure you're right about the difference between a soft hit and a slam. When I first used a spray system, in the late '70s, I simply used a full throttle switch. I had to learn to 'feather' the pedal to not bring in the juice until I had the car moving. The car was a late '70s Mustang that was also turbo'd and used DCOE Weber carburetion. The fogger nozzles were placed just below the draw-through lay-out. It was always great fun to surprise 'vettes, etc. Since a drag-style launch is un-necessary in land-speed racing, what small thought I'd given the matter inclined me to the same technique.

Thank you for bringing the new electronics to my attention. I'll probably have to use some such gizmo, depending on whether I find it necessary to use an aftermarket ECU. I'm, at present, in a three-way exploration with SCT and a local tuner. I'm told that it's possible to do things with the factory electronics that aren't fully accessible with the consumer version of the Xcalibrator.

My greatest problem is that I'm going in so many ways at the same time. I need to get the engine together and a transmission upgraded. If I've gone far enough to have a clear path concerning the power adders when I have the engine ready to go in I'll be doing good.

And, of course, the work on the LS is really designed to get me up to speed knowledge and experience-wise. I need to have the LS done in the spring so I can race it while starting the build on the true race-car. I also have on-going work at Ben's Place.

KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

In an earlier comment, there was a question about the aluminium parts in the 4.0 and, I'm sure, the 3.9 for that matter. I had occasion to carry the block across the yard to put in the back of the truck this afternoon. It's just a bare block at present, and is partially cleaned and going to be boiled out so that it's surgically sanitary. The water pump mount sticks up at the front top---see the great photos in the supercharger thread---and I simply hooked fingers two and three through this hole and carried it with no trouble. It probably weighs in the forty-fifty pound range. I don't suppose I'd want to walk down to the store with it that way, but this was simply from the garage to the truck in the drive.

Everything I see about this engine shows the race-type thinking that's very much part of the design. I'm walking around with a giant smile!

KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: Jayce 1971

You are going to shoot a 200hp shot of NO2 into your daily driver? Hope that bus passes are cheap in the Detroit metro area. (just kiddin', man) Seriously, I think that it's amazing the way that nitrous has become just "accepted" as a performance booster. Though nitrous can still be a death sentence for engines, (check out Youtube for some awsome motor blowing nos shots), greater understanding of ignition timing and fuel requirements have made NO2 most common. Good luck on your engine swap and future runs. Keep us posted.


Posted by: cammerfe

My goal is to able to make 800 HP+ 'at will'. The unique thing about both N2O and turbocharging is that they are both 'demand'-type additions.

The engine itself is in process of being built in such a way as to be as strong as possible, but quite mild, as opposed to a rough classic hot rod build. The cam characteristics most useful for a turbo/nitrous combination move the lobe centers apart and focus on the exhaust side regarding both lift and duration. This makes for a smooth-running engine at low speed.

Making the engine strong will be accomplished by providing extra support for the main bearing girdle using steel straps, going to all titanium valves and other components, and having custom forged pistons and aluminium rods made. These components and practices should make it easy to safely rev to beyond 8K as necessary, and take the extra load that's being applied. One Maxton class record I'd like to take is now held by a turbo Porsche at 186 MPH. I want it.

Since I'm using methanol as fuel every time I turn on the N2O or go into boost, I'm not only adding power, I'm actually 'cushioning' the burning characteristics in the combustion chambers. The technical reasons why this is true would take several pages to post, so I won't do it here. Nonetheless, it's true. And all this, as applied to land speed racing, is giving me a learning experience that I want for the more serious race car that'll be built starting in the spring.
KenS from Ben's Place
(You may want to read Ben's books---some of this stuff is to be found in them, along with his other activities. Google bensplace.us for further info.)


Posted by: Jayce 1971

Yup, split lobe cam shaft design has really come in. It makes sense, though. Getting rid of all the exhaust, and giving a little more duration to the exhaust valve, before bringing in more intake. I wish you the best of luck on the the jag engine build. Makes sense going that route. Wish I had the time and/or resources for REAL racing. Top speed is the only race worth running in my book. I will be watching your thread, especially when the speed season comes back into full swing. Good luck...Represent LS


Posted by: MediumD

Aluminum rods in a daily driver?

Can of worms opened...


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by MediumD View Post
Aluminum rods in a daily driver?

Can of worms opened...
Back in the early 'sixties the idea was fully developed that Al rods were 'race-only'. Advances in alloys and design have rendered that notion outdated. Originally, the problem was that, although the rod design had no problem with compression, the 'stretch' while going the other way would, after a time, pull the big end oval and cause a pinch at the parting line. This seems to be no longer true.
I've discussed the idea with several rod manufacturers, and none of them have any problem with using their products as I have in mind. Time will tell. Part of my confidence is based on the fact that the original failure scenario was caused by motoring down after a 1/4 mile run using a stick trans. With the automatic, this doesn't happen. I may well pull the engine at the end of next season and do a check.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

DOES ANYONE KNOW anything about getting 10 degree valve retainers and locks for the Lincoln, T-Bird, Jag engine? Got my heads back today, all nice and clean. It has been my intent to do a five angle Serdi job on the valves and seats and a little bit of blending and call it good. But the guys who run the shop say that they regularly get heads with the valve stems pulled through. Regular USA-type valves usually use seven degree retainers. HP stuff is often ten degrees and uses machined, hardened keepers---they won't pull through even with 500 pounds of spring pressure at full lift. Does anyone have any ideas?

KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

I've answered my own question by a more thorough round of questioning. The Ti valve manufacturer also makes not only retainers, but keepers too. So the whole package is available. Merry Christmas !

<Afterthought>
Cams are on their way to Competition Cams for a turbo/spray custom regrind. Block detailing is under way.

KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

Merry Christmas !!
Santa delivered a NANO system to go with my spray. For those not familiar, it's used instead of a bottle heater. Keeps the bottle pressurized to an ideal 1000 PSI. And it's INSTANT instead of the heater taking as much as 15 minutes.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

For those readers who've jumped over here because of interest in the turbo thread, and who haven't followed everything that's led to today's post, a few background comments would seem to be in order.

Using a mixture of Nitrous oxide and methanol, I've used my '02 LS to set two one-mile National Land Speed records. I did this using the otherwise stock LS 3.9 engine, to which I added one of the LSK intake packages and a cat-back system from Magnaflow. The records were set last October. The car now has 112 K miles on it.

I'm in process of building a four litre Jag engine to replace the 3.9. Because I'm working with one of the Turbo Manufacturers to increase the available horsepower (torque) I'm focusing on building a mild-running engine that has a 'hell-for-strong' bottom end and titanium valvetrain. The combination of two turbos and the existing NX 'Pro' spray system (NX sponsor me) should make my goal of 'beyond 800 HP' reasonably easy to attain. ('Ricers' can count on 1K or more HP from a turbo'd 'Toy' six and use it on the street---there is a factory 5 litre version of our V-8 that supplies 550 HP---NA.)

I'm in process of gathering parts at present. The core engine is torn-down and cleaned. It's single-digits cold at night here in Detroit so I'm not in any real hurry right now. The salamander warms my workshop just fine, but it's almighty noisy.

Further information will be available here or in the pages of one of the Primedia publications for which I'm a writer, or both.

Your comments and questions are welcome!

KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: AndrewCoja

I'd love to see a 1K HP LS. Are you going to do any quarter mile runs at all? Would be funny to see some guy with his muscle car get smoked by this.


Posted by: cleanLS

So are you writing a book on this build? OR did i just read that wrong? I would be interested in doing the jag motor in my ls, but not for the 800+ your going for but more like the 300-400hp range.


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewCoja View Post
I'd love to see a 1K HP LS. Are you going to do any quarter mile runs at all? Would be funny to see some guy with his muscle car get smoked by this.
I have a tendency to get carried away. Some years ago I decided to 'warm-up' a Pinto with a few aftermarket mods, and by the time it really came together, it had a 466 SCJ engine in the front seat, a full tube frame and roll cage, and a four inch chopped top.
My purpose in doing the LS has been to gain experience toward running the full course at Bonneville. The LS will remain as my daily driver, and as I get the B'ville car completed, I'll segue into running that instead of the LS. I wouldn't rule completely out the chance of a trip down the quarter, but to be at all able to harness 800+ HP, the changes necessary to the suspension will severely compromise daily use-ability.
Suspension changes to the LS will be directed toward handling!

KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanLS View Post
So are you writing a book on this build? OR did i just read that wrong? I would be interested in doing the jag motor in my ls, but not for the 800+ your going for but more like the 300-400hp range.
My friend Ben, owner and operator of 'Ben's Place', is the book writer. He claims to be writing only 'made-up' stuff, but also says that the reader should use his head. (Google 'Benjamin Garrick' for more info.) I have been writing magazine stuff for more than 30 years and have a contract with Primedia. I'm sure that a goodly share of the technical details will find their way into one of the magazines. When I have a publication date, I'll post it here.
KenS from Ben's Place

<edit> For the price, the Jag's hard to beat. My '99 version makes about 300 HP stock and if you were to acquire the supercharged iteration of the engine, you'd have 400 HP without further mods. There are some differences, but the XCAL , according to the discussions I've had with their tech gurus, can overcome the alternate layouts. This Spring certainly should be interesting! KS


Posted by: Brock

One of my son-in-laws has a 4.0 turbo Jag and is worried about the plastic cam chain tensioners breaking. He states that the best price he has gotten is $2,500 because of the labor involved. He also mentioned that if it jumps more than one tooth, then the motor is gone. I was curious if you have any comment on this and/or how you have addressed this issue with your 4.0? I understand that there is a third-generation metal-based tensioner kit.


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock View Post
One of my son-in-laws has a 4.0 turbo Jag and is worried about the plastic cam chain tensioners breaking. He states that the best price he has gotten is $2,500 because of the labor involved. He also mentioned that if it jumps more than one tooth, then the motor is gone. I was curious if you have any comment on this and/or how you have addressed this issue with your 4.0? I understand that there is a third-generation metal-based tensioner kit.
Brock, to tell the truth, I haven't paid any attention to any of the small hardware yet. When we tore down the engine, we carefully laid out the 'bits' and other than a cursory glance to see if anything was broken, it's laid right there.
The main function of the 'tensioners' is to keep the longer, straight runs of chain from oscillating. There is a short plastic 'shoe' mounted to a spring arrangement to do this. If I find any appreciable wear upon close examination, I'll probably just make up new shoes---maybe from steel. This is a common concern on most all OHC motors. And please remember that the mechanics believe they have you by the gonads when any of this kind of work needs doing. I was quoted $3500 for trans repairs on a '94 Jag I had. It turned out to be a relay that I bought from the local parts store for $6.00. I also had to buy a Haynes book to get the right wiring diagram. The job took about thirty seconds if you don't count the time spent standing at the counter.
I don't know what new tensioners would cost from the Ford dealer, but the job of replacement could easily be done in half a day with ordinary hand tools. When working on a car, rape is common !!
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: AndrewCoja

I was rereading the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
Years ago, I knew a guy who had a '29 Ford Sedan with an Allison engine from a P-51 Mustang fighter in it.
Pff. This guy needs the Rolls Royce from the P-51D if he ever expects to get anywhere near Germany. Especially if he ever gets in a climbing battle against a Messerschmidt.


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewCoja View Post
I was rereading the thread.



Pff. This guy needs the Rolls Royce from the P-51D if he ever expects to get anywhere near Germany. Especially if he ever gets in a climbing battle against a Messerschmidt.
But he sure did honk on the runways. Really! As I'm sure you know, airports were often used as dragstrips. This was clear back in the '50s and here in the western suburbs of Detroit. He was a friend of a friend. I heard he moved to California. The car was somewhat tire-limited. The engine took up most of the interior and he drove while sitting next to the engine.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: Rodewaryer

This has been the most "smack talking free" thread and the most value added on this forum in a long time. Look forward to learning even more as this progresses. Especially along the lines of making HP from the Jag engine....my compliments to "cammerfe". Awesome thread and great information!


Posted by: cammerfe

Thank you for your kind words! I've been 'hot-rodding' for a long time and usually, (but not always), seem to be working on a daily driver. That means that you have to do your mods in 'weekend-size' chunks so you arent torn down for more than a couple of days, or, as I'm doing now, get another engine to work on while continuing to drive the car in the meantime.
When I have the new engine ready to install, it'll actually be remarkably close to stock configuration. The lower end will consist of a steel-strap-supported stock main girdle, with custom aluminium rods and forged pistons. The valve train will be all titanium but will likely be very little different dimensionally. Ports will be cleaned-up a little, but not looking much different than to remove tool marks


Posted by: cammerfe

I'd have added to the above post but got called away and now it's several hours later.
I was asked, by email, about the NX 'spray' system I used to set the National Land Speed Records. Since this is the basis of the beginning article I've written for Primedia, let me keep things general here. Any time the NX system in the engine compartment is actuated, the engine gets not only nitrous oxide, it also gets methanol where it would ordinarily get gasoline. This allows for a richer mixture into the engine and makes more power than there would be with gasoline. I've just begun to explore, with NX help, (they sponsor me) the improvements this makes. At this point, what would be 100 HP of gas/N2O is probably equal to about 120 HP of NH3OH/N20. There's about 1.5 MPH difference between the two records. Much more to be found in the Primedia pages. I'll post here when I get a print date.
KenS from Ben's Place.


Posted by: Rodewaryer

Great stuff, I know I'll be here watching......


Posted by: cammerfe

Hopefully none of those reading have caught the error in the chemical formula I used just above. I can only plead the hour---close to 2AM and that I was even more my usual fuzzy self. Methanol is CH3OH.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: AndrewCoja

Because I am sure we were all going to mix up a batch and throw it in the engine.


Posted by: Brock

"......it also gets methanol where it would ordinarily get gasoline."

Now that you have posted this, your previous "tooting" of the NX system makes sense!


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock View Post
"......it also gets methanol where it would ordinarily get gasoline."

Now that you have posted this, your previous "tooting" of the NX system makes sense!
I'm very enthusiastic about NX because they're the only ones that were un-ruffled by my intent to run methanol. They not only gave me a set of starting numbers in terms of jet size, they offered (and I accepted!) sponsorship so that all the basic hard parts are a matched set. So far, I've gone richer twice from the suggested starting setting---three changes altogether. With each run I set a new national record.

Several other manufacturers responded with, "Say what"? and the sound of head scratching, or were otherwise uncooperative. The result was that the hardware is about 2/3 NX and the rest is generic parts and fittings that would be used for any automotive plumbing project. The photos back about # 11-12 or so will give you the basic layout.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

It may be of interest to some of you who have had trouble with leaking seals causing failure of your ignition coils, and/or those who, in addition, might be interested in an ignition upgrade, that I'm working with a major aftermarket ignition parts supplier. The result will be to work out the details of what's necessary in order to be able to avail ourselves of the much upgraded coil-on-plug components that're out there in the marketplace.

Details are sketchy as yet, but the alterations necessary to use coils originally meant for other performance engines are being explored between us. The purpose, of course, is that enhanced ignition is highly worthwhile when using spray or when some sort of supercharging is being employed. Since I'm going to use both in my Land Speed Record attempts it's one more of the necessary items that're in process of being checked off.

I believe I've alluded to that ultimate purpose in my LS experiments on more than one occasion on this forum. Not only am I seeking the ultimate performance upgrades possible to my LS for racing while maintaining street-driving viability, I am soaking up the land speed racing experience like a sponge. I will be taking delivery of a particularly appropriate kit car sometime this spring. It too will have a sprayed, TT engine installed. But in this case, I'll be starting with a 450+ CID Ford FE engine such as has been used in NASCAR racing and drag racing. Since some iterations of that powerplant are capable of over 1K of both HP and torque BEFORE the application of either spray or any supercharging equipment, I'll ultimately have a 'ride' that'll be fully Bonneville worthy. And because of the tractability of engines built specifically for N2O with CH3OH, and turbocharging in addition, the result will be a truly unique vehicle. I'm actually duplicating a car already owned by my friend Ben Garrick. He and I have agreed that, with his help, we'll go 'to the salt'. He's helping me to be, to significant extent, a copycat. You can read about his own car in his books, the latest of which is called, Detroit: Autumn Red.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: MMAFIGHTER121

keep us posted on the coil on plug upgrades! i'll definately keep my eye out cuz better spark is always a top notch bang for buck upgrade and usually easy


Posted by: thethirdeye88

i'm down for the spark...


Posted by: NateRW21

Well Ken, I hope you have much better luck than previously had with GMS. I'd love to be able to throw upgrade coils in... but I was pretty depressed when it fell through last time!


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by NateRW21 View Post
Well Ken, I hope you have much better luck than previously had with GMS. I'd love to be able to throw upgrade coils in... but I was pretty depressed when it fell through last time!
I'm unfamiliar with GMS. I expect to use coils from one of the Ford engine designs (With suitable alterations) from an engine such as the 4.6. The engineers at the aftermarket company are very positive about our ability to make this work.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: thethirdeye88

i'm waiting...


Posted by: cammerfe

As part of a bench-racing session with friend Ben recently, we were discussing the likely life of a set of aluminium rods when used on the street. Although there are certainly some significant differences, it was pointed out that the main bearings in the Jag 4 litre---and also, I assume, the 3.9---are supported by aluminium. The engine now in my car has 112K miles on it and I'm sure that I read somewhere here recently that others are approaching 150K. Reflecting on this certainly puts the use of aluminium as a rod material in perspective. I'll still monitor oil pressure closely and listen for the characteristic sounds of bearings beginning to fail, but after the discussion, I was left with the thought that, "I haven't had any real concerns about my plan, but after contemplating the mains, Why didn't I think of that??"
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: NateRW21

there are a good number of people running Aluminum rods on street driven machines... How many miles they put on them, I don't know... but the fact remains... They aren't relegated to track driven trailer queens anymore.


Posted by: cammerfe

I've had several PMs regarding various aspects of the spray system I used to set the land speed records at Maxton. Since that info fit into the current thread running regarding the use of the XCal, I've made several comments and given answers there.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: NateRW21

How is your incursion into aftermarket coils coming along?


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by NateRW21 View Post
How is your incursion into aftermarket coils coming along?
I have a source that's in process of supplying me with a 'dead' coil so as to have one for comparison to be able to have proper attachments. The 'stem' will probably be longer and the coil body will stick up. This will make it impossible to put the oblong cover back on, but will provide the use of the threaded brass inserts as fastening points to keep the coils in position. And they'll run cooler too.


Posted by: cammerfe

After several hours of discussion with my Crew Chief and a number of 'phone calls, I've decided to convert my AJ27 Jaguar engine to use a dry-sump oiling system.
I have the benefit of a number of sponsors for this project who are willing to provide the hard parts and counsel, and not only my own shop, and Ben's, but also others who can be counted on for experienced thinking and fabricating assistance.

For a simple explanation, a dry sump oiling system uses a pan at the bottom of the engine that's designed with several ports along the passenger side located so that suction will pull the oil away from the engine. It's then pumped into a separate tank designed to remove any air that's been 'beaten' into it by the activity of the engine parts as they move. The oil is next pumped back from the tank to the engine. The pump is external to the engine and usually driven by a toothed-belt system.
The pump is made up of several sections---usually 3 to 5, all of which are suction units except one to provide pressure. Drawing the oil away from the engine keeps it from causing drag, or 'windage'. The lack of windage drag, and the removal of the air entrained into the oil, along with the vacuum pulled in the crankcase with its attendant drag reduction, altogether will provide 30 to 50 extra horsepower in a V-8 engine.
The major drawbacks are the complexity, including the hoses back and forth, and the extra room and weight involved due to a ten pound pump and mounts and a remote tank (in the trunk) that contains, including the hoses, more than two gallons of oil---for a total of 12 to 16 quarts.
On the other hand, I'll be able to connect one suction section to the turbos instead of needing the electric pumps otherwise used to return oil after it goes through remote turbo bearings.
Gee, I'm having fun!
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: MMAFIGHTER121

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
I have a source that's in process of supplying me with a 'dead' coil so as to have one for comparison to be able to have proper attachments. The 'stem' will probably be longer and the coil body will stick up. This will make it impossible to put the oblong cover back on, but will provide the use of the threaded brass inserts as fastening points to keep the coils in position. And they'll run cooler too.
yay! updates on coils! cuz i'm pretty sure mine are going!


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMAFIGHTER121 View Post
yay! updates on coils! cuz i'm pretty sure mine are going!
I think I'll have a dead sample in hand tomorrow!
KS


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
I think I'll have a dead sample in hand tomorrow!
KS
Small glitch---the guy who had a sample coil for Accel to work from had just cleaned up his junk area and dumped everything. I'm making alternate arrangements and will have more info within the week.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: MMAFIGHTER121

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
Small glitch---the guy who had a sample coil for Accel to work from had just cleaned up his junk area and dumped everything. I'm making alternate arrangements and will have more info within the week.
KenS from Ben's Place
fine by me i can't afford to have my coils checked until next week's paycheck anyway


Posted by: buddylee

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
My thanks to Dave for his help in posting the above pictures. The tech folks at AT&T tell me there is some sort of glitch between my primary email system and my Photoshop software that seems to be causing the problem.

KenS from Ben's Place
are you using at&t browser ?


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddylee View Post
are you using at&t browser ?
AT&T system and modem through Windows Internet Explorer by Yahoo. Sure would be nice to be able to use my Photoshop 4. Can't even email individual pictures now, as I did to Dave for the photos in the beginning of this thread.
KenS


Posted by: daves2000ls

Glad to hear things are still moving forward. Spring is almost here


Posted by: cammerfe

Got the block back from the machine shop. Close examination and some measuring helped us come to the conclusion that 'touch-honing' was all that was necessary. This provides a proper surface to break in the rings. Block remains standard bore size. Sleeves are very tough---had to use 'whisker' cutter to provide the cross-hatch.

Now another wait for the pistons. More info soon.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: MMAFIGHTER121

any word on them thar perf coils?


Posted by: EMPIRELS

I have actually been using Motoblue 60,000 volt coil packs from a 03 Mustang GT without any problems whats so ever...


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMPIRELS View Post
I have actually been using Motoblue 60,000 volt coil packs from a 03 Mustang GT without any problems whats so ever...
VERY valuable information!!!! Thanks much for your post. How long have you been using that combo? (It's been suggested that there's the possibility of water getting into the plug wells and causing difficulty.) And as an aside, what all have you done to your engine?
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: EMPIRELS

I've been using these coils for about 8 or so months now. As for the water geting into the spark plug wells, it only happens with a hard rain, and even then its not to bad. As for engine mods.. P&P Heads,TB,Upper Intake Plenum, Deleted EGR, Full 2.5" Exhaust with Test Pipes, 125 Wet Kit, SCT, Deleted Hydro Fan, Pump, and Lines, 3,000CFM Elec Fan, Custom Cold Air Intake, Motoblue Coils, and ALOT of Transmission Work


Posted by: 02LincLS

What kind of transmission work did you do (i see "a lot" in your list of mods)?
Your engine stays together with the 125 shot? I feel a little more comfortable now- I'm in the middle of installing 100 shot progressive. Kits good for 125 so maybe after a fuel pump, and a year of non-grenading runs, I'll jump up. Could you PM me general comments about the hydraulic fan removal? P/N and electrical, method.
Thanks!


Posted by: EMPIRELS

As for the Trans its a Level 10 Animal Kit, i have a custom made 2800 stall, a larger trans cooler, and a deep sump trans pan from a 05 GT (with dipstick)


Posted by: EMPIRELS

for the nitrous im using a progressive control aswell it ramps up to a 125 at 5k


Posted by: MMAFIGHTER121

do you think the perf. coils help?


Posted by: cammerfe

At this time, I plan to use the '03 Mustang GT coils as seen in the pictures above by empirels. I'll be using Accel as the source and installing as shown. The only drawback is the lack of the covers normally in place. On the other hand, since I'm under the hood regularly, removal of the covers makes it easy to inspect for oil seepage and the coils will run cooler. I may make some sort of cap around the coil extension in order to make the installation more like that which is to be found in other central plug, hemisphere-style engines.
More comment soon!
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: Quik LS

the only issue is to keep the rain water out - common issue for the Gen2 LSes was the trim at the rear of the hood allowed water to come off the windshield, down the cowl and then into the COP area.

The GMS folks created a 'spacer' (like a 1/2" gasket) that help use the stock COP cover clear the larger coils. It should be possible to do the same thing for the LS.


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik LS View Post
the only issue is to keep the rain water out - common issue for the Gen2 LSes was the trim at the rear of the hood allowed water to come off the windshield, down the cowl and then into the COP area.

The GMS folks created a 'spacer' (like a 1/2" gasket) that help use the stock COP cover clear the larger coils. It should be possible to do the same thing for the LS.
Thanx for the input. I'll be exploring all ways to make this addition 'user-friendly'.
KS


Posted by: 02LSE96LSC91SE84TC

4.6 4V coil covers measure pretty much the same size as the LS covers. May allow use of the spacers with some modification to the mounting.


Posted by: cammerfe

As many of you know, one of my major sponsors is NX. Their help has made it possible for me to set the land speed records at Maxton. I received an email today to announce the availability of the new controller from NX. Needless to say, there's one on the way to me. Now to get it in before the next race weekend!!
KenS from Ben's place


Posted by: 02LincLS

i'm doing my controller this weekend too. good luck!


Posted by: cammerfe

In the ongoing discussion concerning the use of Mustang COPs, the suggestion was made that it was necessary to change the boots to get the aftermarket coils to fit. Was this also your experience? Thanx!!
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: 02V8Sport

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
In the ongoing discussion concerning the use of Mustang COPs, the suggestion was made that it was necessary to change the boots to get the aftermarket coils to fit. Was this also your experience? Thanx!!
KenS from Ben's Place
I PM'd him with the same question about his setup with no response yet.


Posted by: cammerfe

The boots should be flexible enough to work. I think mine have arrived so I'll have info Sat afternoon
KS


Posted by: EMPIRELS

With My Setup I Used The Stock Lincoln LS Boots And Used MotoBlue Stainless Wires Aswell (Which Fit PERFECT)...


Posted by: cammerfe

My Accel COPs arrived yesterday and I actually got them in hand this PM. As you must be aware from the information above, the boot sets at a slight angle to the coil body. However, the entire rubber/silicone boot is flexible. I've pretty much concluded that the mounting method will make it possible to use them right out of the box. At the moment, I expect to use some stainless sheet stock, if I can find it in the shop, to make hold-downs. When I get it done, I'll try to post a photo.The other thing that no one has mentioned is that the coil connector ends attached to the loom have to be flipped over to connect properly. I'll probably wait until monday and talk to Accel, since flipping the connection will result in the contacts being reversed as well. Depending on the internal construction of the coils, this may not be a good thing. More soon.
KS


Posted by: cammerfe

and can't see what's right in front of me. The connection on the Accel coil is upside down to the one on the factory coil, but it's not a mirror image as I thought on quick examination. It is ONLY upside down. There is no reversal of the contacts. MY BAD, as they say.
By the way, the raised ring on the top of the Accel boot seals the plug well in the cam cover so that there's little liklihood of water inside. The loom connections are regular 12 volt so there's no real problem with water when using the Accel COPs. I'm still a little at a loss as to mount connections due to the angle of the bend in the boots. More later.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: 02V8Sport

Ken, does you Accel coil have some sore of tubular rod object inside of the spring that hooks to the spark plug? I looked everywhere and can not find what those are supposed to do.


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02V8Sport View Post
Ken, does you Accel coil have some sore of tubular rod object inside of the spring that hooks to the spark plug? I looked everywhere and can not find what those are supposed to do.
They're conductors so that the spring doesn't carry all the load. They also have the necessary characteristics to make sure that there's no RF interference to cause problems with the computer or the radio/speakers.
KS


Posted by: 02V8Sport

Any downside to taking them out? the stock coils do not have these. I took mine out on day one.


Posted by: cammerfe

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02V8Sport View Post
Any downside to taking them out? the stock coils do not have these. I took mine out on day one.
Frankly, I don't know. But just offhand, I'd think they wouldn't put them in there in the first place if they weren't necessary. It'd just add to the cost for no good reason.
KS


Posted by: cammerfe

I finished the installation of the Accel coils yesterday and have put about 50 miles on the car since finishing. Here's a quick rundown of my findings:

1. I used the coils just as they came from the box. This means I used the Accel boots. I did this because the boots have an enlarged area that corresponds with the top of the plug hole and seals it from any water intrusion.
2. I didn't use any additional fastener beyond the original cap screw, although for attractiveness I used stainless button head screws. Holding the coil in just the right place allows the screw to be placed back in the original hole. Please note that the hole will not completely line up; it will be necessary to push the coil body into place. (When I put these coils in the new engine I'll clearance the hole with a small rat tail file. Please also note that the coil will not be down solidly against the cam cover---use good judgement. More soon!
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

I've been reading, (and participating in) the thread by ILLS that has degenerated into a case of dithers regarding trespassing on a patent. Let me tell a small story:

A number of years ago, I was involved in a mining operation in Nevada. I discovered that the Hollywood westerns depicting the marking of a mining claim and then rushing to record it is nothing more than a movie device. The US Bureau of Mines is perfectly happy to record the claims of any number of different people. They get paid for each one. And deciding who's the owner is left to the courts.

The same thing is true of a patent. Anyone can claim anything is owned and sue about it. "Anybody can sue anybody for anything, anytime.'' But the idea that substituting a turbocharger for a muffler is such a unique idea that it deserves protection from everybody who might also attempt it is balderdash. One could claim that the mechanism had a primary function of altering the exhaust sound. And moving a fluid (oil) from one place to another by use of a pump is also so general that no court would find in favor of restricting it. On the other hand, if you copied their pump design, there might be a problem. (I intend to use one section of a dry sump system for this purpose.)

If the company in question were to be so dumb as to try enforcing such a claim in court, the response would be to defend against them and upon winning, countersue for restraint and injury. Being sued could be looked upon as a life altering event. ("I'll never be the same!!! I wake up in the night in a cold sweat!!!") No intelligent company leadership, one with any sense would try such an attack, knowing that a loss in court would mean the loss of their entire company. But scare tactics can be very effective.

Let me suggest that, unless you have the skill and experience and facility, you let ILLS do your turbo installation. Then it'll be right and you needn't worry about patents.
JMO
KS


Posted by: ILLS

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
No intelligent company leadership, one with any sense would try such an attack, knowing that a loss in court would mean the loss of their entire company. But scare tactics can be very effective.

Scare tactic is the phrase I was thinking of too.


Posted by: cammerfe

As many of you will readily note, there are many similarities between the V-8 engine for the LS and the four cam 'Mod' motor to be found in the Mustang. Althought they are entirely different families, the basic engineering has obviously come from the same company. And because I'm in the process of working-up a twin-turbo package for my car, I'm also learning as much as I can aboutwhat's been done with the Mod engine in that same direction.

I've located a company whose principals are willing to be of help in this regard. Since they regularly build engines for drag Mustangs, their observations are of great help. Here's some of what I've found:

1. The main caps on the Mod motor are steel and bolt on individually with four bolts. The mains on the AJ are aluminium and part of a sump/girdle.

I have to go at the moment! More later--
KS


Posted by: cammerfe

1. The main caps on the Mod motor are steel and bolt on individually with four bolts. The mains on the AJ are aluminium and part of a sump/girdle.

2. Although the head designs are similar, the Mod has a somewhat more complicated valve actuation system. The cams act against rockers with roller ends that actuate the valves. The AJ uses 'bucket' followers that set over the valvesprings and have shims in direct contact with the cam lobes.

3. The heads of the Mod engine have longer intake runners cast into them and use an aluminium intake manifold. The AJ has very short runners and uses a composite manifold.

There are other differences and similarities. Probably the most outstanding characteristic of the Mod motor is that it seems to be almost routine to be able, by installing a turbo of appropriate size, to expect to have the output of the engine approach 2300 HP. And this from less than five litres. And the car running such an engine is mild-mannered enough to be driven over to the store after a pizza. You shouldn't expect to do it every day, of course, because that output level is high enough that rings don't last very long and probably bearings are short-lived also. But it does go to show what's possible.

Isn't that something to think about?
KenS from Ben's Place
KS


Posted by: ILLS

Quote:
Originally Posted by cammerfe View Post
Probably the most outstanding characteristic of the Mod motor is that it seems to be almost routine to be able, by installing a turbo of appropriate size, to expect to have the output of the engine approach 2300 HP.

I would definitely not call it "routine". Producing that kind of horsepower out of the 4.6 Modular V8 is not a walk in the park by any means and requires one hell of allot of engine upgrades ad well as external supporting mods also.

The average 4.6 2v turbocharged street car pushes 400-450rwhp on the stocker bottom end with a rock solid (safe) tune.

Average turbocharged 4.6 4v (non-forged...aka 96-01 Cobra or 03/04 Mach) pushes 450-500rwhp on the stock bottom end with a solid (safe) tune.

Average Terminator 4.6 4v (stock forged) pushes 700+rwhp on the stocker bottom end when turbocharged. Most usually reach between 750-900rwhp depending on the system used and the amount of boost being pushed.

Average forged or billet 4.6 4v with a TT + positive displacement blower combo will push 900-1600rwhp depending on what the combo is. At this point engine block (not shortblock) failure starts to be a possibility if it is pushed hard and without a rock solid tune.

The 4.6 engine blocks themselves are some real solid units but how much power they can support or help make is dependent on a ton of variables. While hitting 2,300hp on the 4.6 has been done before it should surely not be referred to as "routine" by any sense of the term.


Posted by: cammerfe

ILLS always seems to be the 'Voice of reason' for me. And his input is well thought out also. Let me amend my comments.

In order to sustain the above levels of output, it's usual to use a 'Ford GT' block. This is the aftermarket block from Ford and is a continuation of the blocks used in the supercar Ford GT.
This level of output from a drag engine seems to require a forged crank. Forged pistons and aluminium rods are, of course, a given.

However, with the extra quality parts in hand, the build-up of the 2K+ powerplant follows closely what would be expected of any high performance engine.

And the tuning must be 'spot-on' or the entire assembly will be rubble within a few seconds. (But only a few years ago, AA Fuel drag engines of unlimited size were hard-put to reach 1K of HP!!!)
'Routine' means that it's been done successfully on several occasions.
KS


Posted by: cammerfe

I took my crankshaft to Moldex Tool this afternoon. We have gotten far enough to decide on many of the dimensions, and the crank is in to be cut to size. We'll be using the standard main bearing size, and turning the rod throws to Honda diameter. Then they'll polish all the bearing surfaces and nitride for more wear-resistance.
The pistons are ordered in standard size but as HD forgings to take the load of the turbos and spray.
Later---
KS


Posted by: cammerfe

One of the things I've discovered is that ordering custom pistons that don't seem to be the same size as anything else means that they truly have to be made from scratch. We're (design group at Ross pistons and self) largely creating a duplicate of the stock Jag four litre slug, but forged instead of cast. There are four small valve reliefs on an otherwise flat top, and because I'm using close-to stock valve sizes---just made of titanium--- the reliefs don't need to be changed. We will be using a larger diameter wrist pin due to its greater strength, but because I'm leaving it to the tech section at Ross as to the exact size increase, I'm not sure what we'll end up with. We'll also be using the latest in coatings---both for lubricity on the skirts and heat shielding on the crowns. All this takes a loooong time to accomplish. And I can't go ahead on spec'ing the rods until we get the small-end size chosen.

While we're waiting I may very well go back and re-visit the necessary changes to be able to put double-adjustable shocks on the LS. We ARE having fun.
KenS from Ben's Place


Posted by: NateRW21

just for anyone considering this type of extensive work... will Ross be able to provide duplicates of these pistons they are working up for you?


Posted by: cammerfe

In a word, yes. In order to make use of total duplicates, it'll be necessary to use an 86 MM stroke crank, as well as the 86 MM bore. But once having done the work, it's quite easy for Ross to make small differences on a re-order. 3.9 litre pistons don't have any valve reliefs, but the ones in the four litre are only about 1 CC each. I'm sure they'd welcome orders.
KS


Posted by: NateRW21

Good to know...

So you've got the pistons covered and the rods covered (Didn't you say you thought chevy rods would be a pretty close substitute in the 3.9L?), pistons covered. Any final decisions on the crank?


Posted by: cammerfe

Small block chibby rods could, at least theoretically, be made to work. The stock AJ crank has throws that are a metric size that's just larger than two inches, and one of the chivverlay sizes is two inches. SBC rods are available in a large variety of lengths, so it's possible to get a combination that'll fit. I'm using GRP aluminium rods that'll be made to fit the Moldex crank on the big end and fit whatever pin diameter is decided upon based on available space and strength requirements. Rod length to be determined by stack-up dimension of piston crown, ring lands and grooves, and pin diameter.

The crank is being done by Moldex and is using stock Jag main bearing diameter and 1.88 Honda rod journal size--as is common practice in Pro-Stock drag racing.
KenS


Posted by: cammerfe

Had an extended discussion with the tech people at Ross Pistons today, to be sure we're on the same page. They are building for me a set of billet pistons that are, in most ways, a copy of the cast stock pistons for the four litre Jag. The drains for the oil rings will be drilled instead of cast-in voids, and the full-floated pins are increased in diameter to the .927 sbc size and held in with double spira-locks at each end instead of the round wire stock items. Compression height and ring pack stack-up will remain 'factory'.

This approach will make it easily possible to duplicate for the 3.9. The major difference other than the pin diameter would the altered pin location due to the one MM difference in stroke. (The 3.9 has an 85 MM stroke instead of 86 MM of the 4.0.)

Pistons will be done, including pin fitting and applications of ceramic coating on the crown and lubricating coating on the skirt, in about three weeks.
KS


Posted by: cammerfe

While waiting for the pistons to be completed, I've been working on the rods. After a lot of back and forth, it looks as if the specifications go this way--
1. Rod length is 5.225 inches
2. Cap width is .822 inches
3. Big end fitted to 1.88 inch crank pin

Within the next several days I should have a possible delivery date.

KS


Posted by: cammerfe

While doing a little routine maintenance today, I took the time to pull the MAF body and spray out the tiny little hot wire with electronics cleaner. I also cleaned and re-oiled the filter that came with the induction set-up I got from Ken---LSK---about a year and a half ago. DO IT!!! Just by the Butt-O-Meter it must have given me-(gave me back)-about 20 f/p of torque. (I believe it takes about 20 or so before you can reliably feel it and there's no doubt that I can feel the difference.)
KS


Posted by: TDUB

What little piece are you talking about?


Posted by: cammerfe

If you remove the MAFS and look into the end closest to the filter, you'll see a black plastic 'nub', about the size of the first couple of joints of your little finger, sticking out into the airstream, from the location of the electric connection on the outside. The side toward the filter is vaguely 'U'-shaped. Look closely and you'll see a little open window at the top of the U with a tiny wire running across it. The U is designed to funnel the air through the window and across the tiny wire. The cooling effect of the air running across the wire is converted by the computer into a way of reading the volume of air going into the engine. If the wire is slightly dirty because of oil from the filter getting on it, or for any other reason, the reading will be slightly off. An auto parts store---I went to Murray's---will have spray cans of cleaner for electronics parts. Spray lightly and then let dry. (Don't use any alternative like brake cleaner of carb cleaner.) Reassemble. Reads like new. Wonderful---and the better signal from the cleaned MAFS will make you proud.
KS from Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

on another topic, I'm exploring the installation of race-oriented chassis parts to my '02 LS. You'll notice that in the regular LS forum, I've asked anyone with replaced shocks/struts still available to get in touch so that I can get some measurements. I'll make use of these measurements to spec the necessary coil-over shocks. I'll construct the correct mounting ends to make it possible to use a pair of double-adjustable race shocks with eyelet ends to fit the LS suspension.

Full race sway-bars are made from seamless tubing, or are made from bar stock and then gun-drilled. Since it's the outside diameter that determines the stiffness, (coupled with length and the end arm length), it's possible to utilize full race parts to produce an absolutely first class set-up.

It looks as if all the parts necessary to install a gun-drilled sway-bar will cost about $200. Such an installation will cut the weight nearly in half.

KS


Posted by: TDUB

How difficult would the install be?


Posted by: cammerfe

Since the bar is a simple straight piece, and the ends are detachable, it should be a very easy job to install. You could cut the original to make it easy to remove and then just put the new one in place, put the mounts on, and install the end arms. The links are usually clevises on the bar end and threaded on the other end to attach in the usual way. The bars are available in various diameters, wall thicknesses, and lengths. It's probably feasible to add about 10% stiffness to both front and back.
KS


Posted by: TDUB

Wow. I'm interested in this for sure, let me know what you find out.


Posted by: cammerfe

Hello---Haven't been here for a couple of weeks while I had some issues with my computer.

Had a call from Ross (pistons) today. They'll be shipping my new pistons this next week. Last process is coatings, and theyll be done very soon. More in a few days!!
KS


Posted by: pektel

Geez, hurry it up, will ya? Those guys on TV can do an entire build in an hour! And that includes the commercials!



Posted by: fonsito

Let me know for the swaybars and other suspension components


Posted by: cammerfe

Pistons arrived today. I don't have them in hand; I'll pick them up tomorrow. Rods soon, and crank not for about another week or ten days.
KS


Posted by: cammerfe

There really is such a thing as custom pistons for an AJ27 engine. I got them home today and unwrapped one to see what it looks like---It looks like it was intended to be some sort of jewellery. Aside from the material and the manufacturing process it's only different in some small details from the stock cast items, including the diameter of the wrist pin, and the thickness and placement of the rings. I haven't got the 'numbers' yet, but just the ceramic heat barrier coating on the crown surface costs thirty dollars per piston. Speed costs, how fast do you wanna go?

I'll have my crank in another week or so, and the rods can't be too far behind.
KS


Posted by: NateRW21

good to hear of the progress!


Posted by: cammerfe

Just got a call from Moldex. My crankshaft will be through the gas/heat treat sometime next week! Things are beginning to happen!
KS


Posted by: cammerfe

A quick look at the date will tell you the most obvious thing about building an out-of-the-mainstream engine---everything has to be done from scratch. I just this afternoon actually went over to Moldex Tool and picked up my crankshaft. When it went through the very last round of measurements/examination several weeks ago, it was found that it was a half-thousandth larger than the specified size on the rod throws. A measuring tool had begun to go out of spec. It was therefore necessary to go back through the process and remove the extra half-thou.

I got it this afternoon. To the extent that a crankshaft can be so, it's a thing of beauty, with pronounced fillets for extra strength.

I have to do a set of measurements---'Trust but check'---and order the bearings. Then the next thing is to wait for the delivery of the aluminium rods. My tongue's hanging out so far that the front of my shirt is spitty!
KenS From Ben's Place


Posted by: cammerfe

Those of you who've followed this narrative from the beginning will remember that I've described the architecture of the AJ engine as having all the main bearing caps integrated into a girdle structure that has four bolts (studs) attaching each main cap and a dozen or more holding the perimeter of the girdle.

Due to the strain on the crank imparted by the combination of a pair of turbos and several hundred horsepower of N2O/methanol spray, we had decided to reinforce the main caps with steel straps. A mock-up suggests that the straps should bridge the width of each cap area and be of 3/8ths stock. I've ordered a piece of cold rolled steel that should be good to go. If it turns out that it isn't dimensionally close enough, it may be necessary to take a skim cut off so that it's close enough.
We make progress!
KS


Posted by: cammerfe

We did some measuring today and found several things. First, on very close examination, the main cap/girdle has steel inserts cast into it. In other words, each 'cap' is actually steel, with the steel being an integral part of the massive aluminium casting that bolts down to the underside of the block.

We also found that we'll probably need to make the straps of 1/4 inch stock. Anything more than that would seem to make it necessary to cut clearances into the windage tray that bolts into the cast sump that makes up the third member of the 'sandwich'. (Block, girdle/mains, and sump.)

More soon, as we gather parts, and do the fitting necessary to have a good basis for our projected ECTA record winning engine.

KenS from Ben's Place




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