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Any legal advice against dealership?

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Posted by: glanga

Bought the car (03 LS V8) this past November for $19,000. They had it on the lot for no more than 2 days when they sold it to me so they wrote me a few IOU's for things which most they paid up on.

More importantly, I have gotten tired of the constant problems with this car and service at Ford/Lincoln dealerships so I go and try to trade the car in and find out it's not worth squat. Supposedly before I bought the car it was in an accident on the passenger side. I wouldn't have noticed this stuff as I am not trained to appraise cars but they pointed it all out to me. Overspray on the wheel well and black rubber trim around the doors. Color between the passenger doors and door jambs is different. Slight peeling above the front passenger door. And the front fender has been removed or replaced. Also the hood, front passenger door, and trunk are all slightly mis-aligned.

This was never reported on carfax since, so I'm told, it's only reported if a police report is filed. Also our family mechanic works at the dealership which is a touchy subject. He had to have known but he's not the kind of person to accept a kickback but I think he thought I'd keep the car long enough that it'd be worth what I'm being offered now by the time I get rid of it (if that makes sense).

Basically the dealership had to have known before they sold it, ripping me off in the process selling me a car not worth nearly that much and worth much less than it's trade in value. One dealership I tried to trade in to said it's not a "true Lincoln" anymore. The car has also been in the shop for phantom belt squeaks, water leaks, and now the check engine light just came on and it wants to take a good 5 seconds and a few jerks to downshift.

Someone recommended I go to the dealer, tell them straight up my problem with them and threaten with legal action, and have them go to auction to find me the car I want and make me a deal on trade in with mine for the one I want.

Any ideas for recourse on this?

The car is going in tommorow for the check engine light. Anyone want this car? Feel free to make offers too.

Posted by: daves2000ls

This happened to me to. The previous owner backed it into something, I noticed the rear valance was messed up, and thought, oh well, some $500 piece of plastic aint worth it. Well, a little while later I decided to replace the battery, got into the spare tire well for like the second time and noticed it had a huge dent in it. Got under it and saw that they not only messed up that plastic but the spare tire well too.

I went back to the dealer and asked them very politely to fix it. They of course turned me down, so I walked around the lot de-advertising for them (telling potential customers my story). They asked me to leave, I wrote a letter to some state agency, but it got lost I assume ( like a year and a half and haven't heard anything).

I don't think they'll help you out either, remember there's a reason its called a "stealership".

Posted by: beaups

I don't see where they did anything "illegal". You didn't do your research and got a car with some defects (carfax is a screening tool, NOT research. when you get ready to buy you should have it inspected if you don't know what to look for). Now if they put in writing "accident free" or "guaranteed not to break" than that's a different issue. As far as overcharging you, nothing illegal about that either.

I would try the loyal, (whiney) customer approach. I don't see where a legal threat will help you. Just my opinion...

Posted by: taylor414ce2003

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaups

I don't see where they did anything "illegal". You didn't do your research and got a car with some defects (carfax is a screening tool, NOT research. when you get ready to buy you should have it inspected if you don't know what to look for). Now if they put in writing "accident free" or "guaranteed not to break" than that's a different issue. As far as overcharging you, nothing illegal about that either.

I would try the loyal, (whiney) customer approach. I don't see where a legal threat will help you. Just my opinion...

car fax is only good if an ins claim was made,lots of people get into accidents and pay out of pocket for the fix.Was the car a certified pre owned Lincoln? if not you dont have a chance other than talking to the manager or owners of the dealership about giving you fair market trade value for your car towards another used or new car, if they dont work with you it is obvious they are crooks and pray on 1 time sales .expensive lesson for you-what was the name of the dealership?

Posted by: glanga

Actually I did inspect the car the best I could which is how I got some IOU's out of them. But I am not trained nor do I have the knowledge to look for the signs of a car being in an accident. I don't consider this "some defects." I consider this a major problem because this is how every dealership I go to now treats it. I also feel car salesman and car dealerships have a huge advantage over peopl since that is their job...to take advantage of you first and foremost THEN sell you a car. They knowingly hid a huge problem in this car.

Pacifico Ford on Essington Ave. in Philadelphia.

Posted by: daves2000ls

They'll probably try and tell you that you were in a wreck. Thats what they said to me. That I did it. F them. F them in the A. OR: ouye ouldce owthre olitaveme ocktailsce oughthre eirthe owroomshe indowwe.

Posted by: glanga

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves2000ls

OR: ouye ouldce owthre olitaveme ocktailsce oughthre eirthe owroomshe indowwe.

I could.....but that wouldn't solve any of my problems.

Posted by: taylor414ce2003

I would read up on the lemon laws and used car laws in your state., then decide about hireing a lawyer .Dealerships /used car lots walk a fine line,and will prey on and take advantage on an uninformed buyer,from car values,condition, to finance rates etc they try and squeeze as much $$$ as possable thats what a salesman does makes as much profit as possable.That is why it is always a good idea to have a neutral 3rd party inspect a car before buying.Some states ,the ins co inspects the car before giving a policy to avoid fraud.Also check the and see how many complaints have been filed against the dealership. Good luck I sympathize your frustration I have been raked over before but it was a lot less expensive lesson for me years ago...buyer be where!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: glanga

well i did get an opinion. our family mechanic and good freind works at the dealership though. our family usually keeps cars a long time which he knows since we bring any of our cars to him. foreign or domestic. he probably figured we would be keeping it a long time, not selling it 8 months later. id like to keep him out of it but it looks like he was part of this cover up. i have to find all of the car papers and go through them thoroughly.

Posted by: MDavis0424

You may have some recourse with Ford if the car is still under the original manufacturer's warranty. Not sure what kind of constant problems you have been having with the car, but in general the Magnusen Moss Warranty act requires that the manufacturer fix any defects within a reasonable period (normally three tries). If you have had the car in to repair the same problem more than three times it may be worth pursuing. Attorney fees are usually paid by the manufacturer, so most attorneys will take your case for free. Once again, don't expect that you'll get the car replaced, but a successfull Magnusen Moss suit will usually get you between 10 and 30% of the purchase price depending on the severity of the problem.

As far as the dealer goes, not much you can do legally unless the dealer specifically told you the car had never been wrecked, even then it would be your responsibility to show that the damage occured before you took possession. Used cars are Caveat Emptor, or Let the Buyer Beware. It was your responsibilty to inspect the vehicle (or have it inspected) prior to the sale, both you and the dealer agreed that the car was worth $19,000 at the time of sale.

Posted by: glanga

For the most part I've been told I have no recourse. The factory warranty is up in August but unfortunately every problem I have seems to be a new problem. The dealership fixes it and gives me a rental. That's where my problem lies too, that our family mechanic works there. He does the labor for free, just charges parts but it's in so often and the dealership is a good 45 min away it becomes a hassle.

Posted by: beaups

What problems are you having? CEL and slow shifts, etc. are COMMON ls problems, whether the car has been wrecked or not.

I would deal with the repairs. As for the bad body work, why not call the previous owner and get the scoop? Most body shops offer a long (or lifetime) warranty on their work for things like peeling paint. See if you can't get them to do it right.

Posted by: 97stscaddy

Quote:

our family mechanic and good freind works at the dealership though. our family usually keeps cars a long time which he knows since we bring any of our cars to him. foreign or domestic. he probably figured we would be keeping it a long time, not selling it 8 months later. id like to keep him out of it but it looks like he was part of this cover up.

First: Did you ask him to inspect the car for you before you purchased it?
Second: If he is just a mechanic, he has no say in what the sales department does with the cars they sell. He gets paid to fix what the manager wants fixed and the rest goes out the window. I don't think it would be fair for you to loop him into this just because he works there.
As for the car, check up on your states lemon laws. You probably wont be able to get anything done about the body work, but you might be able to get a better trade in value on the car.

Posted by: glanga

to beaups..the CEL is on. at first it would flash whenever i was over 70mph and trying to get it to downshift. now it is on solidly, jerks when downshifiting and jerks when i am just going through gears normally say at a stop light. it also will rough idle a bit, but just one little jerk every few seconds. It started doing this on the highway about 2 weeks ago. I don't know the previous owner and I don't know how to obtain the information since the dealership doesn't like me to begin with.

to 97stscaddy...yes he inspected it, hes the one who called and recommended it to me. He did get me a great deal on a trade in on the car since he is a higher up there. he has a lot of say throughout the dealership since he is second in command of the service dept. and has a lot of mechanical certifications and he is the only diesel certified mechanic there. like i said he thought i would just keep it a while and whatever went wrong he would fix, but this car has many more problems than a decent car should have.

and thirdly, does anyone think it worth it monetarily to take it to a body shop, and have them fix it all then trade it in, or will the costs outweigh the trade in value of a good condition ls anyway.

I'll sell this after I get all the warranty work done either way. I don't want this car or any Ford ever again for that matter. My 98 Seville STS has 100,000 more miles than this car and runs and looks better than the LS on its worse day. If anyone seriously wants this car, make me an offer. I'll consider them all at this point. Funny I want to trade this in for a used Jeep Wrangler. They might break down a bit but they are so damn basic. I'd rather have no doors than air conditioned seats.

Posted by: jontz

Man, sorry to hear about the bad luck, but you probably don't have any solid options. I bought a 96 Deville that I thought was a great deal. Drove it home from Illinois only to find that it had a blown head gasket. It isn't bad yet, undetectable while driving, but the #7 plug was wet with coolant when I pulled it. At least I was only in for $1600 with the caddy...

Posted by: NateRW21

hate to tell you... but it sounds like you're just stuck. Not the dealer's fault. They just sell the car; isn't their job to identify issues, defects and problems in the car, then inform you.

Posted by: beaups

CEL sounds like coils but dealer should be able to confirm. Get somebody to run title or registration history for you and you should be able to track down the previous owner...maybe your buddy can pull it out of the service system for you.

Posted by: glanga

well its going in today for work. good this happened now since the warranty is up in august. coils would be covered under powertrain warranty i assume.

Posted by: MDavis0424

There was a post on this a couple of days ago, Ford has extended the warranty on the coils to 100,000 miles for 2003 LS V8 only.

To the earlier question about taking it to a body shop yourself - probably not worth it if you are trading it in, since the dealer would be able to get the work done wholesale.

Posted by: chocolat1701

well i think your stuck with it, its just bad luck, and the issues you seem to be having sounds like the coils or headgasket needs replacing witch is a common issue with the LS anyways new or used, and how did you have the car checked and by whom, it sounds like the evidence was so abvios that if the person that was checking the car was a trainned autobody person could of easily found the issues, your freind may not have known since he is a mechanic not a autobody specialist,

Posted by: glanga

my first question is that with the symptoms i described does it sound like bad coils or a dirty throttle body. like i said it would sputter when trying to downshift and when taking off from a light then the cel would flash. now it is on constantly. it also sputters a bit while idling but very lightly. i didnt get a chance to see what the code was myself.

secondly, yes i will probably just have to cut my losses. our mechanic freind should have known. any mechanic should have known, there is no frame damage however. he just thought i would keep it so long since i usually do with cars that it'd worth that anyway by the time i sold it

Posted by: beaups

sputtering and flashing cel is very indicative of a misfire (i.e. coil). Good news is your cel is on so you can get the codes read and likely take the guesswork out of it.

Posted by: glanga

yep, you called it. cylinder misfire/bad coils. thanks beaups. they called me today and said twas just that

Posted by: JES_LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by glanga

well i did get an opinion. our family mechanic and good freind works at the dealership though. our family usually keeps cars a long time which he knows since we bring any of our cars to him. foreign or domestic. he probably figured we would be keeping it a long time, not selling it 8 months later. id like to keep him out of it but it looks like he was part of this cover up. i have to find all of the car papers and go through them thoroughly.

I guess I'm missing something here, namely where the coverup is.
The salesman told you the car was hit, you admit that he wrote you a bunch of 'We Owes' for the problems you found.

Did they certify the car, or sell you a warrantee, because if they did the fine print the paperwork may help you.
If they did not, then you bought the car "AS IS", which means any problems are your problems not the dealers.

Yes you got abused, but unless I'm missing something, the saleman/dealership did nothing illegal.

Posted by: glanga

Quote:

Originally Posted by JES_LS

No, no one told us the car was hit. They wrote we owe's for small things such as a missing front passenger floor mat, or paint chip inthe rear bumper, or a squeaking belt. The car was under warranty but on the buyers guide and sales receipt they didn't check anything off even though the car was still under factory warranty. We didn't find out until later it was in an accident until we got it appraised at several other dealerships trying to do a trade-in.