Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums

(This is the forums archive - If you want to get back to the main site simply click the banner above and you will be taken to our homepage.)

Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums is the Ultimate Online Resource for Owners and Enthusiasts of American Luxury Cars. Feel free to browse through our archive - but make sure you make it back to our main site - Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums

Cadillac XLR : Cadillac CTS : Cadillac : 2005 Cadillac STS : Cadillac Forums : 2000 Lincoln LS : Lincoln Mark VIII : Lincoln Mark VII : Car Wax
Lincoln Town Car : Lincoln Air Suspension : Lincoln Continental : Lemon Law : Do It Yourself Car Repair : Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums : Mesothelioma

Back to the Archive Main Page

Pages: 1

Lincoln LS V8 vs Lincoln MKZ

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: bigbuck15

Which one do you think has a better interior and exterior?Which one do you think is faster 0-60 and which one would you pick and why?

Posted by: Macoffutt

The MKZ Dash is hideous..

Posted by: LS4me

Depends on what you want. The LS was made to compete with BMW. The Zephyr/MKZ was made to compete with the Lexus ES3XX and Acura TL.

Posted by: eastcoastLS

LS. because of looks, coziness, and it gives me everything out of a car i need since it holds 3 surfboards 3 people and a 15 inch sub comfortably

Posted by: Fla02LS

I'll tell you what, i met up this past weekend with some friends i havent seen in awhile. One had a new Lexus GS430, another a Infiniti M45, another a Audi A6. My '05 Lincoln LS Ultimate was like a Taurus compared to those cars. I always thought of my LS as a nice luxury car, but to be honest i'm not really impressed with Lincoln anymore. Even a fully loaded MKZ doesnt come close to any of those cars and they arent to far off in price. I think after i have my LS for a few more years i am jumping to something else. American cars just dont compare to Lexus, Infiniti, Audi type cars.

Posted by: 02V8Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fla02LS

I'll tell you what, i met up this past weekend with some friends i havent seen in awhile. One had a new Lexus GS430, another a Infiniti M45, another a Audi A6. My '05 Lincoln LS Ultimate was like a Taurus compared to those cars. I always thought of my LS as a nice luxury car, but to be honest i'm not really impressed with Lincoln anymore. Even a fully loaded MKZ doesnt come close to any of those cars and they arent to far off in price. I think after i have my LS for a few more years i am jumping to something else. American cars just dont compare to Lexus, Infiniti, Audi type cars.

couldnt agree more, the 04 LS will be my last American car, unless something impressive comes out.

Posted by: Fla02LS

Just wanted to add that the Lexus GS430 was just sick. The navigation system was insane. I still have the window sticker from my '05 LS and it was $45k new. A new '07 GS430 runs around $52k. That $7K buys you ALOT more car that no amount of mods can compare to.

Posted by: nickandersonLS01

my uncle just bought an MKZ, I was confused when I looked at the inside. It looked like a Ford 500(Taurus). My LS(6 years older) blew the interior away, and its 6 cylinder AND it still only gets 20mpg. Maybe Ford is trying to save some money?

Posted by: owlman

I like the interior and exterior better on the LS so that's my pick.

Quote:

I still have the window sticker from my '05 LS and it was $45k new. A new '07 GS430 runs around $52k. That $7K buys you ALOT more car that no amount of mods can compare to.

Yeah but who pays sticker for an American car?

Posted by: LS4me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fla02LS

Just wanted to add that the Lexus GS430 was just sick. The navigation system was insane. I still have the window sticker from my '05 LS and it was $45k new. A new '07 GS430 runs around $52k. That $7K buys you ALOT more car that no amount of mods can compare to.

Can't compare stickers. My '06 stickered for $49K. Even without X-Plan, I wouldn't have paid more than ~$38K. That $52K GS430 gets you a stripper version. Add the NAV and a few other options to make comparable to the LS and you're close to $57K.

I'm not saying the two cars are the same, just that the price difference is greater than you intimate.

Posted by: MDavis0424

I test drove the AWD MKZ, it's not at all a bad car. Have to agree that the dash takes some getting used to, but a decent alternative to a loaded Camry or Accord for about the same price. The LS is definately quicker and better handling.

I also drove an M35, and it blows both of them away. This was the first American car I bought in the last 10 years (last three were Lexus SC400, Nissan Maxima, and Toyota Avalon) and will probably be the last I buy for the next 10 years. LS Ultimate was selling for about the same price as a loaded Camry, seemed like a good idea at the time.

Posted by: Kevin

Interior isn't attractive on the MKZ, maybe it's the colors they used? Beige and light colored 'wud' is tacky - especially on a 'luxury' sedan.

Outside of the MKZ looks too simple and plain, nothing going for it really. Doesn't look mean, fast, or elegant.

I'll take my LS anyday over the MKZ, wish Furd had updated the LS platform instead.

Posted by: bigbuck15

The MKZ does'nt run with the GS 430,M45,A6 anyway they can run all the way up to at least 60 grand.I think the MKZ is a sweet car and the interior blows the Ls's out the water.For 35 grand a fully loaded MKZ is a deal so I don't know what the hell yall talkin bout.Also Nick you need to get your eyes checked cause a MKZ does'nt look

like a ford 500 in the inside.Your 6 year older LS interior damn sure can't mess with the MKZ interior.It will dust your old ass Ls anyday so don't even say that.

http://autos.yahoo.com/2007_lincoln_...=all#imgshttp:

//autos.yahoo.com/2006_lincoln_ls_v8_sport-slideshow/;_ylt=AtgN2JxMKatpre_6aCMMlIqKyMgF?tab=gen&i=inful ldash&a=all#imgs

Posted by: mharrison

Wow, you must own and MKZ to feel that strongly about it.......

Posted by: KPM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbuck15

The MKZ does'nt run with the GS 430,M45,A6 anyway they can run all the way up to at least 60 grand.I think the MKZ is a sweet car and the interior blows the Ls's out the water.For 35 grand a fully loaded MKZ is a deal so I don't know what the hell yall talkin bout.Also Nick you need to get your eyes checked cause a MKZ does'nt look

Sir, This is a matter of opinion and personal preferance.
But you do seem to stand alone here on your preferance for the MKZ.
Personaly I find the MKZ to be FUKLEY.

Posted by: eastcoastLS

this is a very biased thread. in MY OPINION that light colored woodgrain they are putting in these cars now a days is hideous. need to stick wtih the darker woodgrains. and the only interiors i saw of a MKZ were the most hideous color schemes possible all imo. completely black or completely white inside and out is the only color i would ever consider getting an MKZ in.

Posted by: jrockcentral1

"I'll take my LS anyday over the MKZ, wish Ford had updated the LS platform instead."

yup!

Posted by: Machspeed

"I'll take my LS anyday over the MKZ, wish Ford had updated the LS platform instead."

Agreed!

Posted by: Fla02LS

I think the stuff i said has been taken out of context alittle bit. My main point was that the MKZ is i guess the top of the line for lincoln as far as sedans unless you want to drive a land yacht (Towncar). Even in the top of the line $50k Towncar the luxuries dont compare to that of the cheapest Audi, Lexus, Infiniti. American cars have become boring compared to that of the imports, which i hate to have to say. Whether its the engine, interior, technology the imports are killing the GM, Ford, Dodge. Does it surprise anyone that the sales of American cars are going to sh!t? After this past weekend i have "seen the light" of imports.

P.S. One of my last visits to the dealer i checked out the MKZ, the exterior is ok but the interior is ugly and very very boring.

P.S.S. So the Zephyr name only lasted one year? How dumb is that?

Posted by: LUVMY03LS

i choose the ls however for the price i dont think the mkz is all that bad. the interior is something different. it is what it is. you either like it or you dont but i think it was a good idea to try something different. as for foreign cars im all set. i like them and the power is nice but so isnt the cost of repairs. you think lincoln is expensive their even worse. ill stick with my ls. in the future i wouldnt mind an mkz but not till it has more hp.

Posted by: mark0101

I would go for a fully loaded MKZ then an LS

Posted by: mharrison

I wonder if the MKZ will plagued with the B.S. problems the LS has.

Posted by: jrockcentral1

I'm hoping to ride the LS to its last mile and then hopefully by then American autos will have "caught up" (wishful thinking, I know) to foreign automakers in the luxury sedan dept.

And then I'll live happily ever after haha

Posted by: d.e.beatup

IMO, after they discontinued the Continental, I knew that was the beginning of the end for the LS. Lincoln needed a platform to bridge the gap pricewise for the older demo that couldn't afford a TC, so they started to add elements that were anti-sport around that time, like the rim options, the interior logos/presentation, etc. The 2nd gen. LS just seemed so old-folkish compared to the 00-02 to me. When I saw the keypad on the LS door, I knew its days were numbered. Instead of stepping their game up to try to snipe BMW (like the McLaren LS may have made a strong effort towards) it seems they regressed.

I thought the LS was originally intended to appeal to the younger market, the 35-49 crowd, but after the redesign, appearance-wise it just seemed to grow older each year to me. I still enjoy my LS, and I may go back and get an '02 LSE probably, but I think Ford really dropped the ball. Nobody respects Lincoln anymore to me, especially after the redesign of the Nav. Of all the "upgrade" brands like Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, etc., Lincoln is last in my book.

Posted by: eastcoastLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrockcentral1

I'm hoping to ride the LS to its last mile and then hopefully by then American autos will have "caught up" (wishful thinking, I know) to foreign automakers in the luxury sedan dept.

And then I'll live happily ever after haha

that would be nice. i am hoping the same.

oh yea, comparing lincoln to infiniti/acura/lexus is irrelevant. i don't see a connection at all between lincoln and jdm and other overseas products

Posted by: cdixon

Personally I think the LS has somewhat of a "timeless" style. Afterall my 02 is now 5 years old and it still gets looks when I drive it. I do agree though that the later years of the LS took a lot away from it. Personally, aside from the exhaust cutouts, I think the earlier year sports blow away the later year ultimates due in large part to the choice of wheels Lincoln used. With all that said though I am somewhat disgruntled with the apparent mechanical issues the LS poses. I know several people with Lexus, Infinitys and especially Acuras that have way fewer problems than we do. Sure the repairs may cost more but they seem to be a lot less frequent. I only have 57K on mine and I have babied it but I'm still starting to have the same issues everyone here talks about pop up. My fiance's 01 Accord EX has nearly 140K and has had nothing but brakes and tires on it, and trust me she drives it like sh*t. And don't even get me started on the gas mileage difference, and that V6 puts out 240HP to my V8s 255? 15 HP difference that's barely noticeable unless I guess you like speeding tickets which I don't. Don't get me wrong I'm not even attempting to compare a Honda to my beloved LS, just my $0.02.

Posted by: 06AtlantaLS

"[quote=bigbuck15;280669]The MKZ does'nt run with the GS 430,M45,A6 anyway they can run all the way up to at least 60 grand.I think the MKZ is a sweet car and the interior blows the Ls's out the water.For 35 grand a fully loaded MKZ is a deal so I don't know what the hell yall talkin bout.Also Nick you need to get your eyes checked cause a MKZ does'nt look

like a ford 500 in the inside.Your 6 year older LS interior damn sure can't mess with the MKZ interior.It will dust your old ass Ls anyday so don't even say that."

Are you serious?? The MKZ dash looks hideous. My father works for a Lincoln dealer and even the owner was cracking on those cars. They're fugly.

Posted by: fuzzyb

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbuck15

Your 6 year older LS interior damn sure can't mess with the MKZ interior.It will dust your old ass Ls anyday so don't even say that.

I was disappointed that Lincoln used that old ass parking brake lever in the center console of the MKZ. The electronic button is soooo much better.

Posted by: jumpman6235

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.e.beatup

IMO, after they discontinued the Continental, I knew that was the beginning of the end for the LS. Lincoln needed a platform to bridge the gap pricewise for the older demo that couldn't afford a TC, so they started to add elements that were anti-sport around that time, like the rim options, the interior logos/presentation, etc. The 2nd gen. LS just seemed so old-folkish compared to the 00-02 to me. When I saw the keypad on the LS door, I knew its days were numbered. Instead of stepping their game up to try to snipe BMW (like the McLaren LS may have made a strong effort towards) it seems they regressed.

I thought the LS was originally intended to appeal to the younger market, the 35-49 crowd, but after the redesign, appearance-wise it just seemed to grow older each year to me. I still enjoy my LS, and I may go back and get an '02 LSE probably, but I think Ford really dropped the ball. Nobody respects Lincoln anymore to me, especially after the redesign of the Nav. Of all the "upgrade" brands like Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, etc., Lincoln is last in my book.

couldnt agree more.... lincoln needs to look at cadillac, with their XLR, STS, CTS, and escalade (gen 2)... it just sh!ts on lincoln

Posted by: Kevin

MZK Interior

LS Interior.

MKZ interior, harsh square boring lines, horrible colors.

LS interior, smooth gentle flowing curves, dark colors = beauty.

Posted by: captainalias

I'm not sure why you guys are comparing the MKZ to the LS- they're two completely different car classes. Let's not even talk about why some people are comparing the Infiniti M45 to the MKZ? Apples to oranges people. So, that M45 has got nothing on that Aston Martin Rapide.

MKZ = entry-level luxury, like the Lexus ES-series
LS = mid-level luxury

You guys ought to be comparing the forthcoming MKS, which is supposed to be the LS replacement car, when it comes out.

Posted by: chocolat1701

well i dont think the MKZ looks bad actually i went to the dealership yesterday and saw one that had the black on black interior and it looked great, its a nice little car motor trend likes the car check out what they said about the awd one http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...7_lincoln_mkz/

Posted by: Kevin

I realize the MKZ isn't in the same league as the LS, but hey - isn't that what Lincoln used for the LS replacement?

Speaking of Motor Trend, I can't help but remember that the LS was it's choice for Car of the Year way back in 2000. It's sad how far Ford let this car go. Another favorite of mine is the 89-97 Tbird/Cougar, which incidentally was also Motor Trend's Car of the Year waaaaaaay back in 1989. Ford ruined that car too.

Posted by: Fla02LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdixon

I do agree though that the later years of the LS took a lot away from it. Personally, aside from the exhaust cutouts, I think the earlier year sports blow away the later year ultimates due in large part to the choice of wheels Lincoln used.

A couple people have eluded to this. What changes to the 2nd gen. LS make it look like an old persons car or hurt the looks? Exterior....aside from the chrome rim around the grill, slighty different plate surround, round fog lights and a few other minor things its the SAME CAR??? I dont get it. I have owned both versions and i think the 2nd gen. cleaned up alot of things.....washer nozzles removed from hood, better looking headlights, removing amber light from bumper, losing parking brake lever, dual exhaust tips. They also received some nice upgrades....keyless door pad, HID lights, movable armrest, Nav. system, auto up/down windows, auto open/close sunroof, more/better storage space, rear seat heater, parking assist and lets not forget a/c seats. Also in regards to the wheels, i think the chrome wheels on mine are the best looking wheel of any year. Thats my opinion anyway.

Posted by: captainalias

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

I realize the MKZ isn't in the same league as the LS, but hey - isn't that what Lincoln used for the LS replacement?

No, Lincoln never marketed the MKZ as the LS replacement. At least the MKZ uses real wood- the one in the LS looks more like plastic...

Posted by: eastcoastLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Speaking of Motor Trend, I can't help but remember that the LS was it's choice for Car of the Year way back in 2000. It's sad how far Ford let this car go.

in the pre 03 LS commercials, the narrator says, "the new lincoln ls, where its going, may not be as surprising as where it came from." i wonder if they were trying to hint to consumers, that this car is going to be discontinued? thats the way i see it.

Posted by: SoonerLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainalias

No, Lincoln never marketed the MKZ as the LS replacement.

Yup; the MKZ is not, in any way, shape, or form, a replacement for the LS, and it has never been presented as such; the LS's slot in the Lincoln lineup is currently vacant. Lots of people keep making this comparison, but you just cannot compare a $30K-$35K entry-level luxury sedan to a $35K-$50K luxury sport sedan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainalias

At least the MKZ uses real wood- the one in the LS looks more like plastic...

The '03-'06 LSes have real American Walnut burl trim.

Posted by: bigbuck15

MKZ interior
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...leId=116471#11
Ls interior
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/ga...l=LS&trimid=-1

I think the MKZ in this pic blows the LS interior away.Anyway I did'nt mean to come off as an a**hole but I did I was just trying to get what I thought across.Im going to try and make myself calm down when I hear sh*t I don't like to hear about a certain car I like.Keep da peace.

Posted by: SoonerLS

I don't know if it's better than an LS interior, but I do agree that the dark MKZ interior is sharp.

Posted by: captainalias

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerLS

The '03-'06 LSes have real American Walnut burl trim.

Have you seen the wood in the Infiniti M45s and G35s? I think that wood looks fantastic, and great. Why couldn't Lincoln get that?

Posted by: 06AtlantaLS

I think it's user preference. I like the small amount of wood trim in my 06. I don't like how the earlier models had wood covering the entire dash/stereo area. I thought it was a little too much, just my preference though.

Posted by: d.e.beatup

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainalias

No, Lincoln never marketed the MKZ as the LS replacement. At least the MKZ uses real wood- the one in the LS looks more like plastic...

I dunno - if I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it, but I thought that they stopped making the V6 because they introduced the Zephyr, then that got renamed to the MKZ. I always viewed it as Lincoln's unofficial replacement for the LS, at least temporarily until the MKS came out.

Personally, I wish Ford would finally dump Mercury and pour all the money from that line into making Lincoln a viable competitor to Cadillac again.

Posted by: SoonerLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.e.beatup

They dropped the D30 for '06 to streamline the production for the last MY of the LS (that's also why the '06es all have the LSE fascias). The introduction of the Zephyr might have been a factor (considering that it used the D30), but the end of the LS production run (and the end of production at Wixom, period) were the big factors.

Even if the introduction of the Zephyr were a motivating factor for removing the D30 from the LS sales matrix, that wouldn't make the Zephyr a replacement for the LS any more than the introduction of the LS made it a replacement for the Continental. They're different cars built for different requirements. (Fortunately, the Zephyr/MKZ is doing that--making a profit--unlike the LS.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.e.beatup

Personally, I wish Ford would finally dump Mercury and pour all the money from that line into making Lincoln a viable competitor to Cadillac again.

Good idea or not, it'll never happen as long as there are stand-alone LM dealerships. Lincoln doesn't move enough volume to maintain dealerships, according to the LM dealers. They screamed to high heaven the last time anyone even floated the idea of axing Mercury.

Posted by: 9enisP

I just looked up the M45 and M35...I almost cried...it's just so beautiful.

Posted by: wildstang607

isn't the mkz a mazda 6

Posted by: wildstang607

wait,
mazda 6
ford fusion
mercury milan
lincoln mkz, aren't they all the same car?

Posted by: Rodewaryer

I find the interior of the MKZ not up to the general feel/attraction of the LS either. I believe the MKZ/Milan and the Zephyr are based on a Mazda, or at least I thought they were, or is it possible they're based on the new Mondeo?

And, I have to add that early last year, my brand new '05 LS V8 Ultimate was $31K, with 74 miles on it from the dealer. That coupled with the Jag underpinnings made my choice easy. It puts an interesting angle on the cost conversations that have gone on this thread previously. I surely don't see the MKZ/Milan as anything close to the LS. Definitely not replacements for it. Kind of like when Ford pulled the Contour out of the line up and didn't replace it. Weird.

Choices of the masses(?), Infinity, Acura or Lexus(?). Only Americans buy off that those are any different from Nissan (Renault's pulling their strings) Honda or Toyota. What a shallow facade....these are probably the same people buying Citgo gas, a wake up call and a clue are clearly needed.......

Posted by: SoonerLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildstang607

isn't the mkz a mazda 6

No, it's not. The Fusion, Milan, and Zephyr/MKZ are built on Ford's CD3 platform, which is an altered version of the platform under the Mazda6. The Edge, MKX, and the Mazda CX-7 are also built on this platform, but you wouldn't call any of them a Mazda6, would you?

Posted by: SoonerLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodewaryer

And, I have to add that early last year, my brand new '05 LS V8 Ultimate was $31K, with 74 miles on it from the dealer. That coupled with the Jag underpinnings made my choice easy.

Don't make too much of it being a Jag suspension; it would be just as accurate to say that the S-Type is riding on a Ford suspension. At least as much of the development of DEW-98 was done in the US as in England.

Posted by: MDavis0424

I think you're all thinking like car guys and not marketing guys. The LS was the entry level Lincoln from 2000-2005, and the Zephyr/MKZ is the entry level Lincoln from 2006 for the foreseeable future. While they come at it from different directions, the purpose of the MKZ is to bring in younger buyers, same as the LS was. When I bought my LS I wasn't comparing the LS to BMW 3/5 series because they are both RWD sport sedans, I was comparing to Acura TL and Lexus ES because they were in the same price/feature class. The MKZ may not be a "replacement" for the LS, but it is certainly filling the same spot in Lincoln's lineup.

Posted by: Beamer

They both are ugly if you compare to other cars out there. The MKZ's interior has potential to be very nice but as of now its, well, ugly like many have said. LS' interior is rather cheap looking on the inside that some econo or just over the econo car interiors are much better, look and feel wise. Course I am into the more sporty style interiors and prefer dark colors so anything light would have to meet a high quality and look for to like it. I was looking at a fusion earlier and it reminded me of the LS on the inside, granted there is style changes but pretty much ford follows the same generic style. Fusion was nice for what it was though, just needs to be a two door.

I used to be pro-LS while I had it, would get on anyones case if they bashed it just slightly but now I see that I only did that cause it was my car at the time. Now I could care less and even put the car down alot now, someone said the 2nd gen was more old folky, thats I think is true. '02 was the year imo. But the LS was nothing special now that I look at it, granted it handled nicely for a large car, and could get up and go but besides the exterior styling its just another one of them cars that FoMoCo could of made great but instead gave up and tossed out many other ugly new things(well not really new since they like the parts bin so much)

Posted by: SoonerLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDavis0424

The MKZ may not be a "replacement" for the LS, but it is certainly filling the same spot in Lincoln's lineup.

No way, no how, not even close. I can't find the MSRP of the Continental, so I can't say that the LS wasn't the least expensive Lincoln, but it was NOT entry-level luxury; that slot did not exist in the Lincoln lineup. The LS's target (against which it competed quite favorably in the day) was the BMW 5-series, not the 3-series or any Acura, regardless of the cars against which you cross-shopped it.

Posted by: wildstang607

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerLS

your'e right, i wouldn't call them a mazda 6, but they are all mazda material. they all feel cheap. I've worked on all of them for my ford dealer except for the cx-7 and all the cars share striking resemblances. Ford should take a great car like the ls and start a family with it, but that would be too expensive.

Posted by: jmz2k5

I am not sure if I like the LS because of or in spite of the fact that so little was changed through the life of the car.
What I mean by that is, of all the enhancements that FLA02LS mentioned, almost all are interior mods, and those that are exterior could be done with the right amount of money and time.
I have to agree that the MKZ can't hold a candle to the LS (those air vents remind me of the Mercury Cougar/Pontiac Vibe) inside and out, but overall it is sad that Lincoln has fallen so hard...

Posted by: bigbuck15

The MKZ can hold a candle to the LS anyday I don't care what you say.When the MKS comes out it should really put the LS to shame because the interior will be sweet and it will have a 3.7 liter v-6 making over 300 hp.Lincoln has not fallen to hard because they have lots of new cars and future cars so just wait.There sales are also up too, not a lot but its an improvement.

Posted by: eastcoastLS

sorry to say but i read and heard in many different places that ford was talking about turning lincoln into the buick of ford. that would be horrible real talk

Posted by: macboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainalias

... At least the MKZ uses real wood- the one in the LS looks more like plastic...

You obviously own a 1st gen, and yes, it is plastic in those. The 2nd gen does use real wood, and it looks sooooo much better than the 1st gen (I have owned both).

Posted by: SoonerLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastcoast27959

sorry to say but i read and heard in many different places that ford was talking about turning lincoln into the buick of ford. that would be horrible real talk

I've heard that, but not from anyone who's in a position to know (ie, I've never heard that coming from anyone at Ford/Lincoln). Most of those who've said it have said it because Ford has said that Lincoln is not going to chase Cadillac into the $50K+ market, while GM has simultaneously decided to move Buick up-market.

GM chosing to have Buick compete in Lincoln's price range does not equal Ford chosing to have Lincoln compete with Buick, and it also does not equal them turning Lincoln into Ford's Buick.

Now, this was also said well before Ford sold Aston Martin. The sale of AM will remove the cap over Jaguar, and Ford (or maybe Jag's management) is pushing them into a more up-market, niche brand. This, in turn, removes the cap from Lincoln, which will allow them to move more upmarket as well. If you look at what they're developing (MKS) and showing (MKR), it definitely looks like that's the direction Lincoln is taking.

Posted by: eastcoastLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerLS

hey same here!

regards to the rest of the post..i never put much thought into it but if i would have i would be saying everything you said

Posted by: MDavis0424

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerLS

2002 Continental base MSRP 38010
2002 LS base MSRP 33045

The generally accepted definition of entry level luxury is a car that retails for between 30-35k, is offered by a luxury marque, and offers a reasonable level of comfort and amenities. The LS clearly fits that definition.

The LS' target was to provide 5-series acceleration and handling at a 3-series price. While it could keep up with a 5 series at the track, the quality of materials, tempermental automatic and no manual for V8's kept it from ever being a true competitor to the 5-series.

A quick look at the major car sites show that the Acura TL and ES330 are listed as competitors to the LS just as often as the 5 series.

I'm not saying that the MKZ will ever be mistaken for a true performance sedan, but it has taken the entry level place in the lineup that was formerly held by the LS.

Posted by: SoonerLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDavis0424

I'm not saying that the MKZ will ever be mistaken for a true performance sedan, but it has taken the entry level place in the lineup that was formerly held by the LS.

The MKZ and the LS may have both held the position of Lincoln's least expensive sedan, but they are far from holding down the same slot in the lineup. The MKZ holds a slot that Lincoln didn't have when the LS was introduced; the LS held a slot that is currently vacant in Lincoln's lineup.

The MKZ tops out around $35K. The LS started at almost $35K and went up to almost $50K. I don't think there's any way you can call the LS "entry level luxury" just because it's base model's base price started at the high end of the "accepted" entry-level luxury price range.

If you look at the V8s, there's no possible way you could call them "entry level luxury," considering that they started at almost $40K.

Furthermore, if you look at the advertising (what little there was), the automotive press coverage, and the very nature of the LS, it is most certainly, without a doubt, luxury sport, not entry-level luxury, even by the most tortured definition of entry-level luxury available.

Let me ask you this: if the MKZ has taken the LS's slot in the Lincoln line-up, then where's the $48K V8 version of the car? Where's the near 50-50 weight balance? Where's the "F1-inspired suspension"? For crying out loud, where's the ability to choose a gear other than P, R, N, D, or L?

The MKZ is what it is, and the LS is what it is, but they are not in the same class, not by a long shot.

Posted by: MDavis0424

Just because the LS is a luxury sport car does not exclude it from the entry level luxury class. Virtually all of the cars that are considered entry level have base price's that start in the 30-35k range and go way north from there.

Is the MKZ in the same class as the LS? It all depends on how you define the class. If your class is "RWD V8performance sedans with 50/50 weight balance and F1 inspired sport suspension" then no, they are obviously not in the same class.